No but price is based on value not the other way around. But fine, buy 'em up at $15 a piece and watch in two months when its an $8 card and by the time it rotates it'll be $3-5. ITS TO MANA INTENSIVE TO SEE PLAY OUTSIDE OF CASUAL. Fun card but not $15 worth of fun...
Don't be blind. It is WAY better than you are giving it credit for, and a lot worse than others are saying. It is a very good card in the decks that can cast it reliably.
It is a good card that will see some limited competative play. It will initially sell at 12-16 dollars, then after two months hover at the 5-8 dollar range.
After it rotates it will be a 3-5 dollar card.
People saying what price has little to do with how you feel about the card. Some people will spend 15 dollars a card on this, but I think most wont.
Hero of Bladehold has dropped to about $5 bucks a card and that was also a great mythic that saw competative play (and still does in Modern).
Actually, I think that I like Ghost Council of Orzhova better...
<sigh> though that was back when damage stacked too so of course it was amazing. At least better than this big, hulking clunky hey-didjya-win-yet card.
Meh still a good beater though, just wish it was more ghost-dad like.
Trostani is a great card at 4 mana and doesn't see play due to its casting cost
Niv Mizzet is a great card same here...
So i am becoming pesimistic about this card..
Dont let the pessimistic Spikes get to you man. They do this every spoiler season. Then usually get embarrassed by something akward...like satanic carnies.
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There is buried treasure everywhere...in a graveyard.
Sure, because competitive decks are exclusively the ones that wins GPs, since there's no competitive enviroment beside this.
In modern it can ETB at turn 4 very easly (or even turn 3 in junk lists).
He is reasonably resilient and is in colors that can disrupt the opponent strategy to a point that he won't be winning at turn 4 (B have discard against combos, W have the best removal of the format)
The card is strong and might find a home.
I find really funny how people act like all games in modern automatically and with 200% certainity are endend by turn 4. Like the opponent will do nothing...
Just think outside of the box. Depeding on the meta, he might be a good finisher for a junk, esper or bw list.
I doubt the Obzedat will be a good Modern finisher. If it's pounding away at the opponent's life, it can't block. It has no evasion (besides the 2 life drain) and cannot block flying stuff, unlike the fringe-played Baneslayer Angel. It also gains life slower than BSA does. Sure, it dodges Lightning Bolt and Abrupt Decay, but in order to dodge sorcery-speed removal, it can't block, and it dies to quite a lot of instant-speed removal (Path to Exile, Dismember, Go for the Throat).
Heck, I'm not sure I'm seeing it in Legacy Nic Fit, which loves being in Junk colours and loves huge fatties. Sure, it can dodge Pernicious Deed for X = anything (when it's not Nic Fit's turn), but it still leaves negligible stuff behind when it gets removed.
How much play it will see outside of standard is moot, its price will almost solely be dictated by how much play it sees in standard, in which case, I think it will be a decent amount.
People need to seriously learn how to evaluate cards better. Comparing him to Niv-Miz and Trostani and using them as some kind of benchmark for how much play Obzedat will see is just silly. This card is actually worth stretching out your mana base for.
I doubt the Obzedat will be a good Modern finisher. If it's pounding away at the opponent's life, it can't block. It has no evasion (besides the 2 life drain) and cannot block flying stuff, unlike the fringe-played Baneslayer Angel. It also gains life slower than BSA does. Sure, it dodges Lightning Bolt and Abrupt Decay, but in order to dodge sorcery-speed removal, it can't block, and it dies to quite a lot of instant-speed removal (Path to Exile, Dismember, Go for the Throat).
Heck, I'm not sure I'm seeing it in Legacy Nic Fit, which loves being in Junk colours and loves huge fatties. Sure, it can dodge Pernicious Deed for X = anything (when it's not Nic Fit's turn), but it still leaves negligible stuff behind when it gets removed.
This is what I was about to post. Basically, Obzedat is just a bad Baneslayer Angel. There is very little sorcery speed removal in the format (Detention Sphere, Oblivion Ring, Damnation, and Supreme Verdict see very slight play), and Baneslayer wins tons more fights and races.
you are pretty much doing the something with an opposite opinion.
Being able to judge a card is a very important aspect of the gam
No. I'm not blindly hating neither hyping the card. I'm balancing both pros and cons, and stating my opinion. Not saying that it's the absolute truth.
I know the possibility that it might not see paly. The card have a reasonable cost/effect rate. It have good sinergy whit already existing cards (and might have with the new ones). I just giving credit were it is due.
His only argument is "a 5 CMC card can't see play in modern [inster a lot of hate here]", wich isn't even truth by itself. With the right build, it might see play, i'm not saying I WILL SEE PLAY. But i think that the possibility exist.
There's a HUGE difference in saying: "I don't like it, this card might not see play" and "This card is bad and will never see play". Unless it is a total crap, the later shouldn't be used before the card is actually played and fails.
Just look Lectrys post. He totallys disagree with me, but he is not assuming his opinion as fact, and is posting arguments (very valid by the way) to his point.
Not just a "i hate standard, this card is junk bla bla bla".
How did anyone get us focused on modern? I guess because a few people were actually willing to argue with them?
Does Sphinx's Revelation see play in modern? What about Thundermaw Hellkite? Falkenrath Aristocrat?
People who are saying the cost is too restrictive to see play obviously haven't been playing the game very long.
The first Ghost Council was the centerpiece of the best deck in standard for a while...
This guy is easier to hit on turn 5 than that council was on turn 4.
This ghost dad is more of a beater, that looks like a more expensive version of 'Geralf's Messenger.
He is not tremendous on his own due to his cost and abilities. He looks fun, but cards that do well in competitive play generally have splashablility.
That means he needs a deck. He needs a card out there reasonably priced (maybe at a CC of 3) that does the following:
Whenever a spell or ability would cause an opponent to lose life for the first time in a turn, that opponent loses twice that amount of life instead.
If you see a creature/enchantment with this, then I think you have a deck, especially with extort around. In that case I would drop the new ghost dad as a 2 of in that deck.
This is a strong card, but I like the original one better, not only the synergies was better (Haunt) and it was almost impossible to kill with creatures about (another strong point of W/B).
How did anyone get us focused on modern? I guess because a few people were actually willing to argue with them?
Does Sphinx's Revelation see play in modern? What about Thundermaw Hellkite? Falkenrath Aristocrat?
I believe the Obzedat-in-Modern discussion started when Gavin Verhey, the writer of the article presenting the Obzedat, said that card could be playable in Modern Pod decks (likely as a 1-of). I'm starting to see convincing arguments that Baneslayer Angel hoses Modern RDW and presents Jund with conundrums (Jund is forced to keep removal for Pod's combo pieces, Pod has too many other creatures for Jund to force Pod to sacrifice BSA, Jund can't block BSA unless it has Lingering Souls out) so it's OK in Pod, but I'm not seeing the same arguments for the Obzedat.
Surprisingly, Falkenrath Aristocrat is the only card of the three to basically not see Modern play right now. Spirit Jund (with Souls) took up so much of the meta that Thundermaw Hellkite started seeing play in Jund as a Souls-killing hasty finisher (dodges sorcery-speed removal for a turn, kills Souls/Vendilion Clique/Birds of Paradise/etc. even if it gets removed). Sphinx's Revelation sees fringe play in UW/x Control (UW Control, Teachings, UW Tron, etc.). I've found it's surprisingly good at getting out of burn range in Teachings, and I always draw at least 3 cards from it (I think the highest I've gotten is X = 8).
So maybe my examples were bad, they were just off the top of my head. Point being, this is obviously a standard card and that is the generally driver of spoiler discussion and prices of new cards. Most standard cards don't see the light of day in other formats.
hellgrammite, that is an extremely specific thing to propose. Also, I don't think that card would make Obzedat any better, as now were talking about a combo that doesn't do any more than any other good card would do on its lonesome.
I was thinking this could be a finisher in both Standard and Modern in a Orzhov colored control deck. If your opponent is tapped out; there is literally nothing they can do. Splash blue in your deck for Esper, and you have counterspells to keep him alive on your turns. Cloudshift is actually really fun with this guy. Instant speed protection, and then the life gain/life loss effect on top of it.
I know Modern is a hard format for new decks to take rise in, but I've won with some pretty fun and strong decks that you never even hear about in Modern.
Another thing that immediately stands out to me is that he runs so well with Restoration Angel too!
No. I'm not blindly hating neither hyping the card. I'm balancing both pros and cons, and stating my opinion. Not saying that it's the absolute truth.
I know the possibility that it might not see paly. The card have a reasonable cost/effect rate. It have good sinergy whit already existing cards (and might have with the new ones). I just giving credit were it is due.
His only argument is "a 5 CMC card can't see play in modern [inster a lot of hate here]", wich isn't even truth by itself. With the right build, it might see play, i'm not saying I WILL SEE PLAY. But i think that the possibility exist.
There's a HUGE difference in saying: "I don't like it, this card might not see play" and "This card is bad and will never see play". Unless it is a total crap, the later shouldn't be used before the card is actually played and fails.
Just look Lectrys post. He totallys disagree with me, but he is not assuming his opinion as fact, and is posting arguments (very valid by the way) to his point.
Not just a "i hate standard, this card is junk bla bla bla".
I didn't say they can't see play. I said they are far and few in between. In fact your pretty much completely misquoting me entirely. Saying it has likely no future in modern or legacy certainly doesn't mean it won't see play. Sealed, draft and Standard will see this guy plenty. Not to mention casual. You need to actually understand what I'm saying before you argue with what it actually is.
Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Alot of you are focusing on Modern and Standard play for Obzedat. Let's consider Commander cause this guy is fun for that format. As a commander; I need to seriously play test it, but as a 1 of, he is fun!
Alot of you are focusing on Modern and Standard play for Obzedat. Let's consider Commander cause this guy is fun for that format. As a commander; I need to seriously play test it, but as a 1 of, he is fun!
much like the old one. i think it would be better in X edh if it was all opponents or something like that. at least for me most games i play are 3-4 people. idk . in 1 vs 1 he seems ok . i never really saw the appeal in the old ghost dad
i'm going to say this card is absurd...but also, so is Geist of Saint Traft and he isnt played as widely as he should be. Amazing card none the less
Geist sees quite alot of play. But even his cost can limit him in some decks. The cost of Obzedat is high WWBB is really hard to work with. He will be worth sub $40 a set in two months (going at +$60 currently).
I like this card. I think it is a good card. But the hype is just that. I almost think some of the people on here are ebay sellers just trying to encourage speculation (a few do note they are sellers).
Again I think this card will see some standard play, but he does not have a major impact on legacy, modern and minimal on standard. I think he will see slightly more play than Rakdos, Lord of riots though. Depends how many packs get cracked open to on market prices.
Again I think this card will see some standard play, but he does not have a major impact on legacy, modern and minimal on standard. I think he will see slightly more play than Rakdos, Lord of riots though.
That's not that hard seeing as how Rakods sees zero competitive play. What kind of comparison is that anyway? This card is clearly much better with him having relevant abilities and all.
Geist sees quite alot of play. But even his cost can limit him in some decks. The cost of Obzedat is high WWBB is really hard to work with. He will be worth sub $40 a set in two months.
I like this card. I think it is a good card. But the hype is just that. I almost think some of the people on here are ebay sellers just trying to encourage speculation (a few do note they are sellers).
Again I think this card will see some standard play, but he does not have a major impact on legacy, modern and minimal on standard. I think he will see slightly more play than Rakdos, Lord of riots though.
The bolded part is fact.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
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Don't be blind. It is WAY better than you are giving it credit for, and a lot worse than others are saying. It is a very good card in the decks that can cast it reliably.
Both Niv and Trostani saw fringe play.
After it rotates it will be a 3-5 dollar card.
People saying what price has little to do with how you feel about the card. Some people will spend 15 dollars a card on this, but I think most wont.
Hero of Bladehold has dropped to about $5 bucks a card and that was also a great mythic that saw competative play (and still does in Modern).
<sigh> though that was back when damage stacked too so of course it was amazing. At least better than this big, hulking clunky hey-didjya-win-yet card.
Meh still a good beater though, just wish it was more ghost-dad like.
Thanks to Rivenor @ //forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=329663"/"> Miraculous Recovery for the Sig!
Dont let the pessimistic Spikes get to you man. They do this every spoiler season. Then usually get embarrassed by something akward...like satanic carnies.
There is buried treasure everywhere...in a graveyard.
I doubt the Obzedat will be a good Modern finisher. If it's pounding away at the opponent's life, it can't block. It has no evasion (besides the 2 life drain) and cannot block flying stuff, unlike the fringe-played Baneslayer Angel. It also gains life slower than BSA does. Sure, it dodges Lightning Bolt and Abrupt Decay, but in order to dodge sorcery-speed removal, it can't block, and it dies to quite a lot of instant-speed removal (Path to Exile, Dismember, Go for the Throat).
Heck, I'm not sure I'm seeing it in Legacy Nic Fit, which loves being in Junk colours and loves huge fatties. Sure, it can dodge Pernicious Deed for X = anything (when it's not Nic Fit's turn), but it still leaves negligible stuff behind when it gets removed.
People need to seriously learn how to evaluate cards better. Comparing him to Niv-Miz and Trostani and using them as some kind of benchmark for how much play Obzedat will see is just silly. This card is actually worth stretching out your mana base for.
This is what I was about to post. Basically, Obzedat is just a bad Baneslayer Angel. There is very little sorcery speed removal in the format (Detention Sphere, Oblivion Ring, Damnation, and Supreme Verdict see very slight play), and Baneslayer wins tons more fights and races.
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I know the possibility that it might not see paly. The card have a reasonable cost/effect rate. It have good sinergy whit already existing cards (and might have with the new ones). I just giving credit were it is due.
His only argument is "a 5 CMC card can't see play in modern [inster a lot of hate here]", wich isn't even truth by itself. With the right build, it might see play, i'm not saying I WILL SEE PLAY. But i think that the possibility exist.
There's a HUGE difference in saying: "I don't like it, this card might not see play" and "This card is bad and will never see play". Unless it is a total crap, the later shouldn't be used before the card is actually played and fails.
Just look Lectrys post. He totallys disagree with me, but he is not assuming his opinion as fact, and is posting arguments (very valid by the way) to his point.
Not just a "i hate standard, this card is junk bla bla bla".
Does Sphinx's Revelation see play in modern? What about Thundermaw Hellkite? Falkenrath Aristocrat?
People who are saying the cost is too restrictive to see play obviously haven't been playing the game very long.
The first Ghost Council was the centerpiece of the best deck in standard for a while...
This guy is easier to hit on turn 5 than that council was on turn 4.
He is not tremendous on his own due to his cost and abilities. He looks fun, but cards that do well in competitive play generally have splashablility.
That means he needs a deck. He needs a card out there reasonably priced (maybe at a CC of 3) that does the following:
Whenever a spell or ability would cause an opponent to lose life for the first time in a turn, that opponent loses twice that amount of life instead.
If you see a creature/enchantment with this, then I think you have a deck, especially with extort around. In that case I would drop the new ghost dad as a 2 of in that deck.
I believe the Obzedat-in-Modern discussion started when Gavin Verhey, the writer of the article presenting the Obzedat, said that card could be playable in Modern Pod decks (likely as a 1-of). I'm starting to see convincing arguments that Baneslayer Angel hoses Modern RDW and presents Jund with conundrums (Jund is forced to keep removal for Pod's combo pieces, Pod has too many other creatures for Jund to force Pod to sacrifice BSA, Jund can't block BSA unless it has Lingering Souls out) so it's OK in Pod, but I'm not seeing the same arguments for the Obzedat.
Surprisingly, Falkenrath Aristocrat is the only card of the three to basically not see Modern play right now. Spirit Jund (with Souls) took up so much of the meta that Thundermaw Hellkite started seeing play in Jund as a Souls-killing hasty finisher (dodges sorcery-speed removal for a turn, kills Souls/Vendilion Clique/Birds of Paradise/etc. even if it gets removed). Sphinx's Revelation sees fringe play in UW/x Control (UW Control, Teachings, UW Tron, etc.). I've found it's surprisingly good at getting out of burn range in Teachings, and I always draw at least 3 cards from it (I think the highest I've gotten is X = 8).
hellgrammite, that is an extremely specific thing to propose. Also, I don't think that card would make Obzedat any better, as now were talking about a combo that doesn't do any more than any other good card would do on its lonesome.
I know Modern is a hard format for new decks to take rise in, but I've won with some pretty fun and strong decks that you never even hear about in Modern.
Another thing that immediately stands out to me is that he runs so well with Restoration Angel too!
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I didn't say they can't see play. I said they are far and few in between. In fact your pretty much completely misquoting me entirely. Saying it has likely no future in modern or legacy certainly doesn't mean it won't see play. Sealed, draft and Standard will see this guy plenty. Not to mention casual. You need to actually understand what I'm saying before you argue with what it actually is.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
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much like the old one. i think it would be better in X edh if it was all opponents or something like that. at least for me most games i play are 3-4 people. idk . in 1 vs 1 he seems ok . i never really saw the appeal in the old ghost dad
Geist sees quite alot of play. But even his cost can limit him in some decks. The cost of Obzedat is high WWBB is really hard to work with. He will be worth sub $40 a set in two months (going at +$60 currently).
I like this card. I think it is a good card. But the hype is just that. I almost think some of the people on here are ebay sellers just trying to encourage speculation (a few do note they are sellers).
Again I think this card will see some standard play, but he does not have a major impact on legacy, modern and minimal on standard. I think he will see slightly more play than Rakdos, Lord of riots though. Depends how many packs get cracked open to on market prices.
Good point, however you need to hold GosT's hand if you want him to be effective. This card is a bit better by his lonesome.
That's not that hard seeing as how Rakods sees zero competitive play. What kind of comparison is that anyway? This card is clearly much better with him having relevant abilities and all.
The bolded part is fact.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.