This is a poor man's bonfire. In competitive play it's rare to get up to a casting cost where this becomes more relevant than bonfire, to say nothing of bonfire being miracled (seems like I get it in opening hand and have to hard-cast 90% of the time anyways).
I know perfectly well how a fireball works, I played with them back when they just printed unlimited.
lol. What's this: LandBoySteve's sock puppet? I've been playing since '97 myself; try to avoid pulling that particular card out of your pocket, as it means you're generally not saying things that carry their own weight.
Plenty of variants have seen play. If you can't see why Fireball variants that are enormously superior to actual Fireball see play, which they do (Devil's Play, Banefire, Demonfire, etc.), then you need to figure it out.
A card that is generally close to a miracled Bonfire is not out of the picture; especially when Bonfire rotates in 9 months. and is already a ridiculous card itself. There are times when Mortars is still better, but there is a large value to the flexibility offered by going to the face to close out the game.
Rules question: If you are targeting a creature and a player and the creature is bounced in response, does the player still take damage?
Yes, it does as much as it can. If a spell has multiple targets and one of them becomes an illegal one before resolution, the spell will attempt to affect the remaining targets to the furthest extent possible.
It's good but where do you play it? It takes a lot of mana to kill something meaningful with it.
Casual and limited. I'll first pick these all day in draft. 2 for 1 plus damage to the face. As you said, probably too expensive to see much play in constructed.
people need to remember wolf run is still in standard. Ramp just got more playable due to this for sure. 2/1 guaranteed, possible 3/1? Its a massive fireball, that is extremely playble given our key rune, and ramp cards.
lol. What's this: LandBoySteve's sock puppet? I've been playing since '97 myself; try to avoid pulling that particular card out of your pocket, as it means you're generally not saying things that carry their own weight.
A what now?
Try repeating that sentence in understandable english, since it absolutely makes no sense whatsoever now
Plenty of variants have seen play. If you can't see why Fireball variants that are enormously superior to actual Fireball see play, which they do (Devil's Play, Banefire, Demonfire, etc.), then you need to figure it out.
Where have you seen me state fireball effects don't see play?
However if you compare this card to bonfire, rakdos returned, devil's play, mortars, it is quite obvious to see this card is on the loosing end of all 4.
A card that is generally close to a miracled Bonfire is not out of the picture; especially when Bonfire rotates in 9 months. and is already a ridiculous card itself.
Stop saying this card is close to a miracled Bonfire, it is MILES away from being close.
It is the same comparison as "The population of Monaco is about the same population as that of China".
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Give credit, where credit is due. Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found. The whip is kept for special occasions
The Internet was a revelation to me, I never imagined there are so many idiots on this planet.
A what now?
Try repeating that sentence in understandable english, since it absolutely makes no sense whatsoever now
I understood it pretty well. He was saying that you're doing what a few other (and one in particular) posters are guilty of doing; flaunting the amount of time you've played the game as if it holds some measure of authority or inherent knowledge on every or any aspect of Magic. Usually when you do it, it's because you're about to make an unreasonable supposition that is incredibly and embarrassingly erroneous.
Where have you seen me state fireball effects don't see play?
However if you compare this card to bonfire, rakdos returned, devil's play, mortars, it is quite obvious to see this card is on the loosing end of all 4.
The card actually performs a different function than all 4 of those, so it's really silly to be talking about "losing end". Bonfire is far more expensive when not miracled, Rakdos's Return is awesome when your opponent has a hand and not as good otherwise, Devil's Play is only better when it's milled or discarded, and Mizzium Mortars does no damage to the opponent. In the Restoration Angel + Thragtusk deck, this card can negate some of the card advantage and mitigate the lifegain problem. It's likely this card sees play.
Stop saying this card is close to a miracled Bonfire, it is MILES away from being close.
It is the same comparison as "The population of Monaco is about the same population as that of China".
A Searing Blaze and a half. A hyper-efficient Fireball. Devil's Play times 3. Rakdos's Return for the battlefield. Almost-Miracled Bonfire. You're going to hear that stuff, and keep hearing it. Because it's spoiler season, and these brand-new, never-before-seen cards are being evaluated for standard playability. These comparisions are people's attempts to find where they fit into a deck, what cards they replace in their current decks, what decks they fit into, and sometimes even just how valuable the card will be during the prerelease or a month after print (for those value-traders). Get over it. We know it's not the same card, and that it might be pretty far away from them, but the comparisions will happen.
Responses in bold.
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"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." -Albert Einstein
I understood it pretty well. He was saying that you're doing what a few other (and one in particular) posters are guilty of doing; flaunting the amount of time you've played the game as if it holds some measure of authority or inherent knowledge on every or any aspect of Magic. Usually when you do it, it's because you're about to make an unreasonable supposition that is incredibly and embarrassingly erroneous.
I am not familiar with the expression, but thank you for elaborating it so eloquently.
The comparison did not hold up in this scenario however, I just pointed out I was familiar with a card I have played alot with in the past.
The card actually performs a different function than all 4 of those, so it's really silly to be talking about "losing end". Bonfire is far more expensive when not miracled, Rakdos's Return is awesome when your opponent has a hand and not as good otherwise, Devil's Play is only better when it's milled or discarded, and Mizzium Mortars does no damage to the opponent. In the Restoration Angel + Thragtusk deck, this card can negate some of the card advantage and mitigate the lifegain problem. It's likely this card sees play.
True, they all do different things, therefor including such cards, and making the choices to put each respectively in your deck, comes with the role that you want that card to fulfill.
Bonfire aside (there is no debating Bonfire is the superior card), the other 3 cards do a better job for the intended purpose these cards are designed for.
A Searing Blaze and a half. A hyper-efficient Fireball. Devil's Play times 3. Rakdos's Return for the battlefield. Almost-Miracled Bonfire. You're going to hear that stuff, and keep hearing it. Because it's spoiler season, and these brand-new, never-before-seen cards are being evaluated for standard playability. These comparisions are people's attempts to find where they fit into a deck, what cards they replace in their current decks, what decks they fit into, and sometimes even just how valuable the card will be during the prerelease or a month after print (for those value-traders). Get over it. We know it's not the same card, and that it might be pretty far away from them, but the comparisions will happen.
I am perfectly fine if people make comparisons. In fact I encourage these, because they make for a good debate.
However, as always, people are using hyperboles.
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Give credit, where credit is due. Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found. The whip is kept for special occasions
The Internet was a revelation to me, I never imagined there are so many idiots on this planet.
Casual and limited. I'll first pick these all day in draft. 2 for 1 plus damage to the face. As you said, probably too expensive to see much play in constructed.
I think deck like Wolf Run Ramp would want to play it. The problem is such a deck currently doesn't exist.
Yeah, obviously solid card. However, it really needs a good amount of mana to be efficient in additional to requiring two kinds of mana.
Comparing to Bonfire of the Damned...
three mana: 1 to opponent and all his/her creatures vs 1 to a flier, non-flier and player
five mana: 2 to opponent and all his/her creatures vs 3 to a flier, non-flier and player
seven mana: 3 to opponent and all his/her creatures vs 5 to a flier, non-flier and player
Obviously, a Miracle Bonfire of the Damned is always going to be better than Clan Defiance. The question then becomes whether you have green mana, have the capacity to make tons of mana, want to kill medium-sized dudes (with the flying/non-flying restriction), or want to destroy a small army of dudes.
Honestly, I think Bonfire is better in most situations. If you don't have the chance to Miracle it, you'd better be making tons of mana to make Defiance more efficient. But then if you're making tons of mana, why are you trying to kill a pair of guys? Wouldn't you rather just go over the top at that point? Clan Defiance is a weird card in that it doesn't really fit aggressive decks better than current options and is more of a long-game control card in colors that aren't very controlling.
It seems like a good metagame option, but not a "slam 4" card by any means. Personally, though, I may be looking at this in a janky Stuffy Doll deck!!! Stuffy Doll!
This is a poor man's bonfire. In competitive play it's rare to get up to a casting cost where this becomes more relevant than bonfire, to say nothing of bonfire being miracled (seems like I get it in opening hand and have to hard-cast 90% of the time anyways).
Its a cool card, but many of you are wanting to hit thragtusk, Resto Angel, then face. Most players will hold the Restoration Angel to defend Thragtusk, thus you can't target it in response to them play resto angel. This card does not remove the cards Gruul needs to in order to win against certain builds: HEXPROOF! This card is cool, but not a $20, 10, or 5 bomb. In the next Standard rotation, maaayyybbbeee? In limited, yes, its great.
Its a cool card, but many of you are wanting to hit thragtusk, Resto Angel, then face. Most players will hold the Restoration Angel to defend Thragtusk, thus you can't target it in response to them play resto angel. This card does not remove the cards Gruul needs to in order to win against certain builds: HEXPROOF! This card is cool, but not a $20, 10, or 5 bomb. In the next Standard rotation, maaayyybbbeee? In limited, yes, its great.
Right. If it were instant speed then it wouldn't draw so many obvious comparisons to Bonfire of the Damned. It would be more unique in that it could truly stop Restoration Angel (blink trigger on stack, kill both creatures). As it is, I can't see it breaking $1 as a fringe rare, at the moment anyway. As I see it, it's damned until the next rotation before it's even cracked from the pack!
I think the upside to this card that many commenters are missing out on is its versatility. I'm not arguing that this card is objectively more powerful than Bonfire (it isn't), but it has much more versatility.
This cards best use will be as a finisher, which Bonfire won't necessarily do as you have to play it as soon as you get it. With this you can wait to fireball them to the dome and take out a key blocker or two to swing for lethal.
Then theres also the pocket situations where you can play it as a bonfire and whipe out their board, or even just use it as an overcosted removal spell.
Hell, you can even just go to the dome for lethal if they have no creatures.
Choosing when you get to actually play the card is a big bonus in its corner.
This card will see constructed play, I can all but gaurantee it.
It has a poweful effect, and provides you with options.
Cryptic Command wouldn't be a very playable card at all if it only did any specific 2 of the possible 4 options.
Pretty good in my opinion. With Bonfire without miracle it would cost a BUTTLOAD more. At least this way it just costs 6 mana total. I was going to say wow this card blows until I saw the "one or more" option.
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To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
Good card is good. Burn / Sligh decks in particular really need these kind of effects to keep up the pressure on the opponent. This is the best way to do that outside of Flame Brake.
Can you burn out your opponent? Throw it at his head.
Need to burn a creature? Do so and get a few points of damage in.
Opponent foolishly played a flyer and a non-flyer? Enjoy your 2 for 1.
I like it, but unless you can consistenly 2-for-1 with this, it's definitely not worth it. So you need to be sure that your opponent is playing both air and ground threats small enough for this card to be worth it. I'm pretty sure Bonfire is three times more reliable card.
lol. What's this: LandBoySteve's sock puppet? I've been playing since '97 myself; try to avoid pulling that particular card out of your pocket, as it means you're generally not saying things that carry their own weight.
Plenty of variants have seen play. If you can't see why Fireball variants that are enormously superior to actual Fireball see play, which they do (Devil's Play, Banefire, Demonfire, etc.), then you need to figure it out.
A card that is generally close to a miracled Bonfire is not out of the picture; especially when Bonfire rotates in 9 months. and is already a ridiculous card itself. There are times when Mortars is still better, but there is a large value to the flexibility offered by going to the face to close out the game.
0 Karn
W Darien
U Arcanis
B Geth
R Norin
G Yeva
UW Hanna
RB Olivia
WB Obzedat
UR Melek
BG Glissa
WR Aurelia
GU Kraj
BRU Nicol Bolas
RGB Prossh
BGW Ghave
GUB Mimeoplasm
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Yes, it does as much as it can. If a spell has multiple targets and one of them becomes an illegal one before resolution, the spell will attempt to affect the remaining targets to the furthest extent possible.
0 Karn
W Darien
U Arcanis
B Geth
R Norin
G Yeva
UW Hanna
RB Olivia
WB Obzedat
UR Melek
BG Glissa
WR Aurelia
GU Kraj
BRU Nicol Bolas
RGB Prossh
BGW Ghave
GUB Mimeoplasm
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
GWU Treva, the Renewer
EDH Spike:
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
Trades
Casual and limited. I'll first pick these all day in draft. 2 for 1 plus damage to the face. As you said, probably too expensive to see much play in constructed.
A what now?
Try repeating that sentence in understandable english, since it absolutely makes no sense whatsoever now
Where have you seen me state fireball effects don't see play?
However if you compare this card to bonfire, rakdos returned, devil's play, mortars, it is quite obvious to see this card is on the loosing end of all 4.
Stop saying this card is close to a miracled Bonfire, it is MILES away from being close.
It is the same comparison as "The population of Monaco is about the same population as that of China".
Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found.
The whip is kept for special occasions
Responses in bold.
I am not familiar with the expression, but thank you for elaborating it so eloquently.
The comparison did not hold up in this scenario however, I just pointed out I was familiar with a card I have played alot with in the past.
True, they all do different things, therefor including such cards, and making the choices to put each respectively in your deck, comes with the role that you want that card to fulfill.
Bonfire aside (there is no debating Bonfire is the superior card), the other 3 cards do a better job for the intended purpose these cards are designed for.
I am perfectly fine if people make comparisons. In fact I encourage these, because they make for a good debate.
However, as always, people are using hyperboles.
Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found.
The whip is kept for special occasions
I think deck like Wolf Run Ramp would want to play it. The problem is such a deck currently doesn't exist.
Comparing to Bonfire of the Damned...
three mana: 1 to opponent and all his/her creatures vs 1 to a flier, non-flier and player
five mana: 2 to opponent and all his/her creatures vs 3 to a flier, non-flier and player
seven mana: 3 to opponent and all his/her creatures vs 5 to a flier, non-flier and player
Obviously, a Miracle Bonfire of the Damned is always going to be better than Clan Defiance. The question then becomes whether you have green mana, have the capacity to make tons of mana, want to kill medium-sized dudes (with the flying/non-flying restriction), or want to destroy a small army of dudes.
Honestly, I think Bonfire is better in most situations. If you don't have the chance to Miracle it, you'd better be making tons of mana to make Defiance more efficient. But then if you're making tons of mana, why are you trying to kill a pair of guys? Wouldn't you rather just go over the top at that point? Clan Defiance is a weird card in that it doesn't really fit aggressive decks better than current options and is more of a long-game control card in colors that aren't very controlling.
It seems like a good metagame option, but not a "slam 4" card by any means. Personally, though, I may be looking at this in a janky Stuffy Doll deck!!! Stuffy Doll!
I'm poor so I'll play this.
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Right. If it were instant speed then it wouldn't draw so many obvious comparisons to Bonfire of the Damned. It would be more unique in that it could truly stop Restoration Angel (blink trigger on stack, kill both creatures). As it is, I can't see it breaking $1 as a fringe rare, at the moment anyway. As I see it, it's damned until the next rotation before it's even cracked from the pack!
This cards best use will be as a finisher, which Bonfire won't necessarily do as you have to play it as soon as you get it. With this you can wait to fireball them to the dome and take out a key blocker or two to swing for lethal.
Then theres also the pocket situations where you can play it as a bonfire and whipe out their board, or even just use it as an overcosted removal spell.
Hell, you can even just go to the dome for lethal if they have no creatures.
Choosing when you get to actually play the card is a big bonus in its corner.
This card will see constructed play, I can all but gaurantee it.
It has a poweful effect, and provides you with options.
Cryptic Command wouldn't be a very playable card at all if it only did any specific 2 of the possible 4 options.
i must agree... i can't afford that dang bonfire...
this fits perfectly in my budget RG aggro
Card will be used. Enough said.
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Pretty good in my opinion. With Bonfire without miracle it would cost a BUTTLOAD more. At least this way it just costs 6 mana total. I was going to say wow this card blows until I saw the "one or more" option.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
Can you burn out your opponent? Throw it at his head.
Need to burn a creature? Do so and get a few points of damage in.
Opponent foolishly played a flyer and a non-flyer? Enjoy your 2 for 1.
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Seems good when you're ahead, decent when you're behind and breaks parity when you're even. But Bonfire might just be better for that role.