Oh you mean rotating, rotating, rotating, and rotating? Yeah...
I didn't mean the UB of the last standard either; I was refering to a general UB control deck. Mass removal, instant speed answers, and card draw. You can last long enough to drop an expensive threat but it's much more reliable if your large threat allows you to save mana for counter support. This creature can be played even if you're expecting a counter war and can play as a cheap chump blocker against an extremely aggressive deck.
In the past this creature would have had a lot of potential.
Even talking about a new rotation, you don't think they'll print better control finishers than a vanilla 5/5 flier? Play Griselbrand, not like mana will be an issue in a control deck. Bloodgift Demon and Bloodline Keeper are also much better options. Tamiyo or the new Drake guy. Any of the 200ish cards we havn't seen printed yet. There will be much better options than Phantasm.
Just the other day, I took a look on my old illusion deck and concluded it is low on flying and could need another one-drop. A 1/1 flying illusion for U that will grow to 5/5 later in the game is just perfect for blue aggro.
I don't think it's all that good in a mill deck. A dedicated mill deck wants to do one thing and one thing only: mill the opponent out. To do that, it has to have mill cards and cards that help it survive. This card doesn't really do either, and to me it seems a lot like combining infect and regular damage in the same deck. Unless it's something like Wolf Run + Nexus, you're just going to make it harder for yourself to win with either individual win condition by mixing the two.
It's not even true that he's good against decks putting cards in their GY. Best case scenario is they only recur an Elesh Norn. In Standard they have Souls tokens to block. And then there's always Griselbrand, and I'm pretty sure a 5/5 flier doesn't do much against him.
My God.. Like I said in the other thread (which you also ignored), you aren't just playing draw-go until they have 10 cards in the yard and windmilling this guy down expecting to win. You should already have some board presence and counters in hand, in which case, you can drop the 5/5 flier for 1, have mana open to counter their Dread Return/Reanimate (with plenty of counter-war backup), and proceed to beat face.
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Modern - RUG Delver RUG - Splinter Twin UR - Jund BRG
Legacy - RUG Delver RUG - Maverick GW - SI BG
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Totally gonna play it in Ninjas. I'm already playing Zephyr Sprite as an enabler, and this is pretty much strictly better.
This.
Totally agree. A Zephyr Spite who can suddenly turn into 5/5 during the later turns? I'm sold.
Ninjas are notorious for lacking late game finish. Now we are talking about a creature who can be an enabler in the early game and a 5/5 finisher in the mid to late game.
I don't know if 22 lands is enough to sustain a Smallpox deck (including 8 cantrips), but this feels like a decent starting point considering the mana curve stops at 3 for Liliana. There should be more than enough mill/hand/land/creature destruction to hit the 10 card minimum.
This card has all kinds of awkward on it, too. The value of a cheap beater for control decks is that you can play him that many turns earlier with counter magic up (potentially turn 3 for this guy), which normally is a very good tempo play, since it means you only have to counter so many spells before you kill your opponent. I don't imagine there are controlling decks that can afford to sit around countering everything until they can comfortably drop their one finisher anymore, because current decks are just able to put too much pressure on their opponents. That makes early 'finishers' much more valuable.
Unfortunately, the earlier you intend to play this guy, the less likely he is to be a finisher and more like to be a mere stumbling block for delvers. And in decks that want undercosted beaters to assist in their aggro plan, he's even less likely to be as big as you want.
In short, in the long term, he may turn into a 5/5 without any effort from either player, but in those situations, you could probably drop an actual 5/5 flier just as comfortably, so the cost reduction is almost negligible.
He's worth keeping an eye on, sure, but I don't think he'll be amazing right off the bat.
My God.. Like I said in the other thread (which you also ignored), you aren't just playing draw-go until they have 10 cards in the yard and windmilling this guy down expecting to win. You should already have some board presence and counters in hand, in which case, you can drop the 5/5 flier for 1, have mana open to counter their Dread Return/Reanimate (with plenty of counter-war backup), and proceed to beat face.
But why are you not just playing a good creature instead of a vanilla 5/5? If you have control of the game, play something that actually does something.
I don't know if 22 lands is enough to sustain a Smallpox deck (including 8 cantrips), but this feels like a decent starting point considering the mana curve stops at 3 for Liliana. There should be more than enough mill/hand/land/creature destruction to hit the 10 card minimum.
I don't think you really need black. Just throw it in UW Delver with a few Sword of Body and Mind instead of Feast and Famine. One hit with it turns on all your Phantasms and it still has good protections. Thought Scour probably isn't even necessary. It's just an evasive dude that can chip away at you until it gets scary. In the late game it's soooo much better than Delver because it comes in as a 5/5 so it can't be Gut Shotted, Shocked or anything plus it eats a Restoration Angel.
Granted, the other creatures in Delver are more consistent and will edge out Phantasm, but it's certainly one to watch.
edit - how about a fast UR Delver deck that uses Reforge the Soul??
But why are you not just playing a good creature instead of a vanilla 5/5? If you have control of the game, play something that actually does something.
I assume because that extra mana you are playing for a good creature would take away the mana you need for the disruption
This might be viable in Modern. I mean, not by itself, but if you can fit those into some sort of good U/B Delver list, I'd take it out for a spin.
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W Jazal Goldmane WR Daretti, Scrap Savant R B Ghoulcaller Gisa BUG Prime Speaker ZeganaUG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UGBG Nath, of the Gilt-Leaf BG RG Ruric Thar, the Unbowed RGUB Dragonlord Silumgar UB UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBGWUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRGBRG Prossh, Skyrider of Kher BRG WUB Sydri, Galvanic Genius WUBUBR Thraximundar UBR URG Yasova Dragonclaw URGWUR Zedruu, the Greathearted WUR WBG Daghatar the Adamant WBGWUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
Honestly I see this guy running in a UB Nephalia Drowyard Control deck as a sort of cheap chump blocker/extra beater, seeing as Delver is still a BIG deck. He is cheap, so he doesn't hurt your mana for counters, is big (how hard is it for UB to get 10 cards in your GY?) and can fly so he blocks delver flipped.
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This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
Seems pretty good, perhaps against certain match-ups. Against a Delver match-up that constantly uses draw spells and other instants, this can prove a beating for they fill up their GY quickly. With Mind Sculpt, your opponent is only a few cards away from putting this guy online. I suppose it can be an alt-win for mill if they're running Guiltfeeder as well.
And here I thought that Serra Ascendant was a good one-drop. Maybe this guy might be too good...time will tell.
This assumes you're running him in a dedicated mill deck. Not only are dedicated mill decks bad because they spend cards that don't impact the board, but Phantasm doesn't help that plan at all. Instead you are playing a card that is only good on turn 1, and gets progressively worse as the game goes on. If you draw him on turn 5, the opponent has all that removal saved up because you haven't played another creature, or the creatures in play are just bigger. Red decks might be able to get away with that but a mill deck cannot because you need to get a lot more out of your cards due to their generally weak nature.
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
As someone currently playing red, I would love a 1/1 flyer for 1. But considering blue is the aggro color, I can understand why it gets better 1 drops.
Oh, it's a 1/1 flyer that can become a 5/5 flyer. Yeah, that's terrible. Good thing they aren't printing crappy cards like that in red! I'll just play with my 0/1 firebreather...that's a two drop.
Seems like a decent card to me. Any time a card starts off high on the power curve (Which even these days, 1/1 flying for 1 is surely?), then there will be decks that fit the bonus ability.
I'm not sure it belongs in mill decks personally - I suspect it'll end up in an aggressive deck with lots of removal, but can see that it might end up in mill or as a control closer.
For me it's powerful enough that I was looking to see if they'd left off the illusion downside.
I don't think you really need black. Just throw it in UW Delver with a few Sword of Body and Mind instead of Feast and Famine. One hit with it turns on all your Phantasms and it still has good protections. Thought Scour probably isn't even necessary. It's just an evasive dude that can chip away at you until it gets scary. In the late game it's soooo much better than Delver because it comes in as a 5/5 so it can't be Gut Shotted, Shocked or anything plus it eats a Restoration Angel.
Granted, the other creatures in Delver are more consistent and will edge out Phantasm, but it's certainly one to watch.
edit - how about a fast UR Delver deck that uses Reforge the Soul??
I think you do need black. Take Invisible Stalker. He's a 1/1 Unblockable Hexproof guy that some people initially went crazy over. The fact is, without a sword, people found he's just not very good at all. With a sword, he's awesome - but most have since cut him for cards that are already good on their own. Jace's Phantasm is similar. He's a 1/1 evasion dude, but w/out hexproof. He's terrible without a way to "turn him on", and he's going to die to everything under the sun in response to your equip cost. Playing a subpar sword to activate an otherwise subpar creature is just as incorrect as the case of the Stalker.
I presented a U/B deck solution because it's a more natural fit for the deck. Between Smallpox and Liliana of the Veil, you're already killing your own resources in an attempt to control theirs. The only way Pox decks have really worked in the past is using cheap threats, and it's a much different game plan than your traditional Delver deck. Normally you throw down your cheap threat and then win through control/tempo. With black, the gameplan starts with control/disruption to ensure they can't kill your cheap threat when you finally put it in play.
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This should probably stay out of the constructed tables. It's really not that good there.
Even talking about a new rotation, you don't think they'll print better control finishers than a vanilla 5/5 flier? Play Griselbrand, not like mana will be an issue in a control deck. Bloodgift Demon and Bloodline Keeper are also much better options. Tamiyo or the new Drake guy. Any of the 200ish cards we havn't seen printed yet. There will be much better options than Phantasm.
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http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=341469
My God.. Like I said in the other thread (which you also ignored), you aren't just playing draw-go until they have 10 cards in the yard and windmilling this guy down expecting to win. You should already have some board presence and counters in hand, in which case, you can drop the 5/5 flier for 1, have mana open to counter their Dread Return/Reanimate (with plenty of counter-war backup), and proceed to beat face.
Legacy - RUG Delver RUG - Maverick GW - SI BG
Foreigning out SI, currently 33/75. The only thing better than a T1 kill is doing it with cards no one has ever heard of and/or can't read. If anyone has any of the usual pieces, PM me. I'm willing to buy/trade.
Agreed. I think this guy is a (diabolical..nicely done, R&D) trap just like Vexing Devil.
Could be wrong..guess we'll see.
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This.
Totally agree. A Zephyr Spite who can suddenly turn into 5/5 during the later turns? I'm sold.
Ninjas are notorious for lacking late game finish. Now we are talking about a creature who can be an enabler in the early game and a 5/5 finisher in the mid to late game.
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LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
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Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
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4 Delver of Secrets
4 Jace's Phantasm
4 Thought Scour
4 Smallpox
3 Mana Leak
4 Duress
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Dismember
I don't know if 22 lands is enough to sustain a Smallpox deck (including 8 cantrips), but this feels like a decent starting point considering the mana curve stops at 3 for Liliana. There should be more than enough mill/hand/land/creature destruction to hit the 10 card minimum.
Unfortunately, the earlier you intend to play this guy, the less likely he is to be a finisher and more like to be a mere stumbling block for delvers. And in decks that want undercosted beaters to assist in their aggro plan, he's even less likely to be as big as you want.
In short, in the long term, he may turn into a 5/5 without any effort from either player, but in those situations, you could probably drop an actual 5/5 flier just as comfortably, so the cost reduction is almost negligible.
He's worth keeping an eye on, sure, but I don't think he'll be amazing right off the bat.
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But why are you not just playing a good creature instead of a vanilla 5/5? If you have control of the game, play something that actually does something.
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Turn 2 Glimpse the Unthinkable, swing for 5. This guy's legit.
I don't think you really need black. Just throw it in UW Delver with a few Sword of Body and Mind instead of Feast and Famine. One hit with it turns on all your Phantasms and it still has good protections. Thought Scour probably isn't even necessary. It's just an evasive dude that can chip away at you until it gets scary. In the late game it's soooo much better than Delver because it comes in as a 5/5 so it can't be Gut Shotted, Shocked or anything plus it eats a Restoration Angel.
Granted, the other creatures in Delver are more consistent and will edge out Phantasm, but it's certainly one to watch.
edit - how about a fast UR Delver deck that uses Reforge the Soul??
I assume because that extra mana you are playing for a good creature would take away the mana you need for the disruption
This might be viable in Modern. I mean, not by itself, but if you can fit those into some sort of good U/B Delver list, I'd take it out for a spin.
W Jazal Goldmane W R Daretti, Scrap Savant R
B Ghoulcaller Gisa B UG Prime Speaker ZeganaUG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG BG Nath, of the Gilt-Leaf BG
RG Ruric Thar, the Unbowed RG UB Dragonlord Silumgar UB
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG BRG Prossh, Skyrider of Kher BRG
WUB Sydri, Galvanic Genius WUB UBR Thraximundar UBR
URG Yasova Dragonclaw URG WUR Zedruu, the Greathearted WUR
WBG Daghatar the Adamant WBG WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
And here I thought that Serra Ascendant was a good one-drop. Maybe this guy might be too good...time will tell.
RGGruul Aggro
WSoul Sisters
WBTokens
BUGRRestore Balance
BMono-Black Infect
EDH:
RGWMayael, the Anima
GWURoon of the Hidden Realm
BDrana, Kalastria Bloodchief
By the time you want to play a creature in those types of decks, the mana saved is irrelevant.
This assumes you're running him in a dedicated mill deck. Not only are dedicated mill decks bad because they spend cards that don't impact the board, but Phantasm doesn't help that plan at all. Instead you are playing a card that is only good on turn 1, and gets progressively worse as the game goes on. If you draw him on turn 5, the opponent has all that removal saved up because you haven't played another creature, or the creatures in play are just bigger. Red decks might be able to get away with that but a mill deck cannot because you need to get a lot more out of your cards due to their generally weak nature.
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Mill? Different win approach, so they don't match each other
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Oh, it's a 1/1 flyer that can become a 5/5 flyer. Yeah, that's terrible. Good thing they aren't printing crappy cards like that in red! I'll just play with my 0/1 firebreather...that's a two drop.
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I'm not sure it belongs in mill decks personally - I suspect it'll end up in an aggressive deck with lots of removal, but can see that it might end up in mill or as a control closer.
For me it's powerful enough that I was looking to see if they'd left off the illusion downside.
Also milling ten cards into a grave is no that big of a problem...
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I think you do need black. Take Invisible Stalker. He's a 1/1 Unblockable Hexproof guy that some people initially went crazy over. The fact is, without a sword, people found he's just not very good at all. With a sword, he's awesome - but most have since cut him for cards that are already good on their own. Jace's Phantasm is similar. He's a 1/1 evasion dude, but w/out hexproof. He's terrible without a way to "turn him on", and he's going to die to everything under the sun in response to your equip cost. Playing a subpar sword to activate an otherwise subpar creature is just as incorrect as the case of the Stalker.
I presented a U/B deck solution because it's a more natural fit for the deck. Between Smallpox and Liliana of the Veil, you're already killing your own resources in an attempt to control theirs. The only way Pox decks have really worked in the past is using cheap threats, and it's a much different game plan than your traditional Delver deck. Normally you throw down your cheap threat and then win through control/tempo. With black, the gameplan starts with control/disruption to ensure they can't kill your cheap threat when you finally put it in play.