You don't play it because it's good against Aggro, you play it cuz it counters what you need it to. Counters lingering souls, garruk and geralf's messenger. So not BETTER than scatter, just more flexible
Well, it sometimes counters what you need it to, provided you have the mana and the opponent is relatively new and doesn't know how to play around the card. If I am building a deck, I'm not building it with the mindset of well this card can be good if I'm playing a newbie.
You do have a point for Lingering Souls. That is a point in its favor. Other than that...it seems very narrow. Since it only costs U, that's another point in its favor over Dissipate. At the very least people will have to play with it in mind.
If you are playing it you will really want to be OTP. It is essentially a dead card in your hand the further the game drags on.
Edit: I still don't see why you would play this over Izzet Charm/Essence Scatter as your counter arsenal. /shrug
The higher ups seem to ignore the fact that Leak was fine for a decade, until they started printing busted creatures in colours where they don't belong. They messed up with Faeries, they did the same with Delver, and and Leak suffered collateral damage. And it's going to happen again, because they blamed the wrong card for their design mistakes.
I guess they just mess up when it comes to blue. Flavorwise, Blue's aspects really equates to advantage. With that, blue spells should be all about taking advantage. And no matter how they tone it down, the color keeps on rising because the cards are all about card advantage.
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Until Ponder rotates and we see how much that affects Delver, it's tough to evaluate any real changes to Blue. While Delver stays consistent, it will define the color. Hopefully the hit to its flip speed (and the loss of Swords) will walk it back enough that not everything else has to be developed and built around it.
As it is, though, Delver can still use this fine in the early game, which is likely the most important part. It still fills Mana Leak's role of shooting down their answers to your early threats. Slower decks can't afford to wait until they can play around Syncopate to play their removal because they're being bashed for 3-9 every turn. The one place this hurts Delver as a Leak replacement is in playing, say, turn 5 Geist with counter mana open, since then you're holding for a 2 CMC Force Spike. And since Delver decks run short on lands it will be hard for them to eat spells later on compared to decks with higher land density and card advantage. So this does make things harder, especially in the long run. But for the really important role Leak plays of keeping your threats safe in the early games, this is pretty much every bit as good.
That said, of course, this could end up being a great compromise if those early turns become less relevant. Which will happen, if Delver takes such a hit from losing Ponder. If that's the case, this could be a slam-dunk of being a passable Control counter but being a very watered down Leak substitute for Tempo.
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
Well, it sometimes counters what you need it to, provided you have the mana and the opponent is relatively new and doesn't know how to play around the card. If I am building a deck, I'm not building it with the mindset of well this card can be good if I'm playing a newbie.
You do have a point for Lingering Souls. That is a point in its favor. Other than that...it seems very narrow. Since it only costs U, that's another point in its favor over Dissipate. At the very least people will have to play with it in mind.
If you are playing it you will really want to be OTP. It is essentially a dead card in your hand the further the game drags on.
Edit: I still don't see why you would play this over Izzet Charm/Essence Scatter as your counter arsenal. /shrug
No, mana leak is a dead card as the game goes on. It scales better than mana leak (although it is significantly worse) just because someone can play around a card (I would argue you can't really play around tgis when used in a land heavy control deck but ok) doesn't make it bad. Trust me, you'll catch more than newer players with this card.
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You know your opponent has Blue in his deck, he has 2 mana untapped, does he have a Syncopate up his sleeve? Should you tap out or not?
With leak it was a guaranteed 3, with Synco its a bit scarier on the higher end but not as stupid on the earlier end.
Not to mention the exile clause is sexy.
At the very least you could use it to force them to tap out that turn by making them pay the extra cost, then use the clear board with no mana on their side to drop threats.
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...and blue players would still moan that they have no good counters to use.
No kidding... So sick of people whining about good cards. I myself like the counter spell, however if you are going mono blue and you find yourself using this for more than 2, then its kind of a waste... You could just use CancelIf that were the case...
However in a 2+ color deck i wouldn't complain about running this, i just wouldn't. Not bad.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
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Haste
When ~ deal combat damage to player, that player loses the game
1/1
…and bad players would still be pissed when they run it into an obvious block.
See what I did there?
Claimed that everyone who doesnt play blue is a bad player?
Im sorry sir, theres a height limit for outside objects in this thread. You'll have to leave that pedestal outside.
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I fear I won't have much time to play Magic these days.
I get to watch worlds develop around me.
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
Card isn't bad, it can easily blow Bonfire out in the most hilarious way possible.
I can't wait to see
"Miracle Bonfire for 9!"
"K. U pay 1 more plz?"
>:(
Syncopate is definitely solid. Broken Ambitions was played relatively heavily in a past standard. I think some people just feel let down because of the Counterspell speculation that arose in response to the rare uncounterable cycle.
Cancel is practically unplayable. By turn three, most gameplans are already set in motion, or the simple cost of three mana will set a control player way behind. Again, i'm not asking for Mana Drain reprints, just viable choices.
Mono Blue isn't a deck since Mirrodin was Standard Legal, it's a dead archetype, in Standard, Legacy, and practically dead in modern (oh, Fae...). Please do not feed the "Ghostbusters Club" with bad material to argue
Hah, i never said cancel was good, just that running this for [2] or more is about pointless, because in that sense, in a mono blue deck, cancel IS better, cause it is a hard counter, and they can't just pay the mana. Never said cancel was good, just that i can see myself using this for [1] when they are out of mana, and not much more.
HOWEVER, i can see myself really liking it in a multi color deck. I was just pointing that one thing out
Until Ponder rotates and we see how much that affects Delver, it's tough to evaluate any real changes to Blue. While Delver stays consistent, it will define the color. Hopefully the hit to its flip speed (and the loss of Swords) will walk it back enough that not everything else has to be developed and built around it.
As it is, though, Delver can still use this fine in the early game, which is likely the most important part. It still fills Mana Leak's role of shooting down their answers to your early threats. Slower decks can't afford to wait until they can play around Syncopate to play their removal because they're being bashed for 3-9 every turn. The one place this hurts Delver as a Leak replacement is in playing, say, turn 5 Geist with counter mana open, since then you're holding for a 2 CMC Force Spike. And since Delver decks run short on lands it will be hard for them to eat spells later on compared to decks with higher land density and card advantage. So this does make things harder, especially in the long run. But for the really important role Leak plays of keeping your threats safe in the early games, this is pretty much every bit as good.
That said, of course, this could end up being a great compromise if those early turns become less relevant. Which will happen, if Delver takes such a hit from losing Ponder. If that's the case, this could be a slam-dunk of being a passable Control counter but being a very watered down Leak substitute for Tempo.
Delver needs some help to stay around and be competitive with Jund/Golgari Zombies/Mid-Range/Aggro, 5CC, and whatever other crazy stuff we're going to see.
Losing ponder hurts because now you have to run more lands. Mana leak is gone and this isn't as good. Oh, you play this as a Spike Force on T2, that's ok I can pay it as I play Pillar of Flames, or if I am on the play, any of the great 2 mana removal we have available.
You lose gut shot, and I don't see a free 1 damage spell coming down the horizon. You lose Gitaxian Probe which means you lose information (This is huge!) and a draw.
I mean, delver loses so much. Lose vapor snag which is meaningful because you get 3-4 damage in a game with it and that is a lot + tempo. Azorius Charm is a nice replacement, but remember it cost another mana and it doesn't deal damage, but it does timewalk - so relatively even trade off I'd imagine.
As far as Geist goes, he's great, but without snag being so cheap and good, what are you going to do about all these great 1, 2, and 3CC cards from RtR?
Delver is just not positioned well for this meta. He needs a very specific set of cards to function to his potential - otherwise he's just a 1/1 that is sometimes, maybe, a 3/2 flyer in later turns. In other words, he becomes a worse Serra Avenger.
Doesn't Judge's Familiar only stop instants and sorceries?
In any case, it's a nice enough counterspell...I'm still expecting a good 2 cost counterspell showing up at some point. I don't play control myself but I do acknowledge that a healthy format needs them.
Do you people honestly think they'll print remand in a format with snapcaster? That tempo-d counterspell is the exact thing they are building cards against in this set.
Syncopate is fine. On the second turn, if they tap out to cast something, does it really matter if they had to pay 3 extra or 1 extra? Late in the game your opponent just has to add 3 to the cost to play around ML, for Sync they have to add your potential mana pool - U to cast something, and that could be quite a tall order.
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Well, it sometimes counters what you need it to, provided you have the mana and the opponent is relatively new and doesn't know how to play around the card. If I am building a deck, I'm not building it with the mindset of well this card can be good if I'm playing a newbie.
You do have a point for Lingering Souls. That is a point in its favor. Other than that...it seems very narrow. Since it only costs U, that's another point in its favor over Dissipate. At the very least people will have to play with it in mind.
If you are playing it you will really want to be OTP. It is essentially a dead card in your hand the further the game drags on.
Edit: I still don't see why you would play this over Izzet Charm/Essence Scatter as your counter arsenal. /shrug
I guess they just mess up when it comes to blue. Flavorwise, Blue's aspects really equates to advantage. With that, blue spells should be all about taking advantage. And no matter how they tone it down, the color keeps on rising because the cards are all about card advantage.
As it is, though, Delver can still use this fine in the early game, which is likely the most important part. It still fills Mana Leak's role of shooting down their answers to your early threats. Slower decks can't afford to wait until they can play around Syncopate to play their removal because they're being bashed for 3-9 every turn. The one place this hurts Delver as a Leak replacement is in playing, say, turn 5 Geist with counter mana open, since then you're holding for a 2 CMC Force Spike. And since Delver decks run short on lands it will be hard for them to eat spells later on compared to decks with higher land density and card advantage. So this does make things harder, especially in the long run. But for the really important role Leak plays of keeping your threats safe in the early games, this is pretty much every bit as good.
That said, of course, this could end up being a great compromise if those early turns become less relevant. Which will happen, if Delver takes such a hit from losing Ponder. If that's the case, this could be a slam-dunk of being a passable Control counter but being a very watered down Leak substitute for Tempo.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
No, mana leak is a dead card as the game goes on. It scales better than mana leak (although it is significantly worse) just because someone can play around a card (I would argue you can't really play around tgis when used in a land heavy control deck but ok) doesn't make it bad. Trust me, you'll catch more than newer players with this card.
You know your opponent has Blue in his deck, he has 2 mana untapped, does he have a Syncopate up his sleeve? Should you tap out or not?
With leak it was a guaranteed 3, with Synco its a bit scarier on the higher end but not as stupid on the earlier end.
Not to mention the exile clause is sexy.
At the very least you could use it to force them to tap out that turn by making them pay the extra cost, then use the clear board with no mana on their side to drop threats.
RRR Khorenthos - The Red Block (Feedback needed!) RRR
No kidding... So sick of people whining about good cards. I myself like the counter spell, however if you are going mono blue and you find yourself using this for more than 2, then its kind of a waste... You could just use CancelIf that were the case...
However in a 2+ color deck i wouldn't complain about running this, i just wouldn't. Not bad.
Sig and Avvie by DarkNightCavalier at heroes of the Plane studios!
They could print…
Creature
Haste
When ~ deal combat damage to player, that player loses the game
1/1
…and bad players would still be pissed when they run it into an obvious block.
See what I did there?
Standard
W.I.P.
EDH
WNorn Tokens
Claimed that everyone who doesnt play blue is a bad player?
Im sorry sir, theres a height limit for outside objects in this thread. You'll have to leave that pedestal outside.
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
I can't wait to see
"Miracle Bonfire for 9!"
"K. U pay 1 more plz?"
>:(
Syncopate is definitely solid. Broken Ambitions was played relatively heavily in a past standard. I think some people just feel let down because of the Counterspell speculation that arose in response to the rare uncounterable cycle.
lol...flavor text should read "Oh no you didn't..."
Hah, i never said cancel was good, just that running this for [2] or more is about pointless, because in that sense, in a mono blue deck, cancel IS better, cause it is a hard counter, and they can't just pay the mana. Never said cancel was good, just that i can see myself using this for [1] when they are out of mana, and not much more.
HOWEVER, i can see myself really liking it in a multi color deck. I was just pointing that one thing out
Sig and Avvie by DarkNightCavalier at heroes of the Plane studios!
EDIT: Well, I think it's the same girl.
Delver needs some help to stay around and be competitive with Jund/Golgari Zombies/Mid-Range/Aggro, 5CC, and whatever other crazy stuff we're going to see.
Losing ponder hurts because now you have to run more lands. Mana leak is gone and this isn't as good. Oh, you play this as a Spike Force on T2, that's ok I can pay it as I play Pillar of Flames, or if I am on the play, any of the great 2 mana removal we have available.
You lose gut shot, and I don't see a free 1 damage spell coming down the horizon. You lose Gitaxian Probe which means you lose information (This is huge!) and a draw.
I mean, delver loses so much. Lose vapor snag which is meaningful because you get 3-4 damage in a game with it and that is a lot + tempo. Azorius Charm is a nice replacement, but remember it cost another mana and it doesn't deal damage, but it does timewalk - so relatively even trade off I'd imagine.
As far as Geist goes, he's great, but without snag being so cheap and good, what are you going to do about all these great 1, 2, and 3CC cards from RtR?
Delver is just not positioned well for this meta. He needs a very specific set of cards to function to his potential - otherwise he's just a 1/1 that is sometimes, maybe, a 3/2 flyer in later turns. In other words, he becomes a worse Serra Avenger.
OH MY GOD! I rarely post on these boards but you sir... freaking awesome! I would take the card you attached over the new art any day.
I suppose I should say something relevant to the topic. I'm very much indifferent when it comes to counterspells. So this card is fine in my book!
I noticed that she was making a shield against fire and the original art depicts the same thing. ART UPGRADE!
Won't mind using this when in comes in.
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Counterspell- "No."
Syncopate- "OH, HELLLL NO."
uhh yeah, but mid to late game its worst than Dissipate or Rewind.
Also vs aggro opponent:
T1: Mana Dork
T2: Strangleroot <- Syncopate is useless unless they don't pay the "1"
Which is why you run it with those....:rolleyes:
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So how are dissipate and rewind useful in that scenario? Looks to me like you have to bite the bullet and kill the turn one bird once in a while.
Could stand a bit more nerf, to be honest.
Spiketail DrakeJudge's Familiar.Doesn't Judge's Familiar only stop instants and sorceries?
In any case, it's a nice enough counterspell...I'm still expecting a good 2 cost counterspell showing up at some point. I don't play control myself but I do acknowledge that a healthy format needs them.
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Vampire Nocturnus: ಠ_ಠ
And that's how Vampire Nocturnus got kicked out of the core set as the promo card.
RG Werewolves RG
B Mono-Black Infect B
R Red Deck Wins R
Syncopate is fine. On the second turn, if they tap out to cast something, does it really matter if they had to pay 3 extra or 1 extra? Late in the game your opponent just has to add 3 to the cost to play around ML, for Sync they have to add your potential mana pool - U to cast something, and that could be quite a tall order.