Worldwake was really not that bad of a set, people. Not a good set, but it certainly wasn't that bad. In any event, I'm putting DKA ahead of it. But really, I like this set a lot--it's lighter on constructed playables for now, but Wizards seems to be trying to power down Standard, starting with Innistrad. It'll take a while for us to get there, but I think once Scars rotates, DKA will shine much more. Compared to the cards from Innistrad, DKA's cards look pretty on par, so when those are the main parts of standard, I think it'll be much better for the game.
This set looks awesome for limited, though, looking to make the innistrad draft format continue to be very fun. Like Innistrad, this set doesn't seem to be for Spikes, but for the other demographics, especially the Vorthoses.
I'm also nothing that "EDH" is becoming a shorthand for "crap". I see nothing here that any of my Commander decks would ever want to play. Why? Because I like winning games sometimes.
Maybe Thalia in 1vs1 edh decks
Mystic Retrievel is an auto include in any deck with UR in it
Increasing Vengeance pretty much replaces fork in any deck that runs it.
Shattered Perception is another Wheel of Fortune effect
Grim Flowering is amazing card draw for green. Since you're playing green you should be running a lot of creatures anyway.
Drogskill Reaver-I'm pretty sure there is a way to abuse that by gaining infinite life.
Havengful Lich is going to create amazing combos. I still rage that isn't legendary.
The two utility lands are very good.
Sorin is a a mind control that hits 3 creatures and can hit a walker or 2 or 3 for 4 mana.
Yeah...these cards are so terrible if you want to win in edh..I bet there is even more if you look at the spoiler.
People said the same thing about Innistrad, the same thing about MBS, and lots of people even said it about NPH.
Once cards start getting played, people start to realize it's not all doom and gloom. There are a lot of good cards in here.
Yeah the notion that Cage and Sorin are the only good cards in this set is laughable seriously.
I can easily see myself playing with 10 cards from this set in different competitive constructed environments and even more in more niche applications.
Worldwake was a stronger set than DKA. Its design was tighter and it pushed the mechanics of the block to the next level. No, DKA is the Fallen Empires, Homeland, and Saviors of Kamigawa of this generation of Magic. I don't think it elevates curses, morbid, or flashback to where they should be advanced. They don't get too much heat added to their arsenal. Vampires aren't being pushed very well. Zombies are okay. Spirits seemed to have received the strongest push. And B/W tokens is the deck that Wizards has nearly shoved down Standard players' throats with all the right cards being printed for it in DKA.
I've said it in other threads, but the best part about this set is the art. I just really wanted the artwork to go along with better cards.
I think if you go on a card by card basis, Innistrad is so much above DKA in power level/playables that you start wondering if the two sets are from the same block at all.
There's nothing even remotely close to Geist of St Traft, Snapcaster, brimstone volley, victim of the night, Delver of secrets, runechanter's pike, dissipate, ancient grudge etc etc etc.
I hate to poo poo an entire set but seriously, what.the.hell. We already knew innistrad was a power down from zendikar which was fine because the INN cards are extremely playable in a SOM-INN standard but there are so few playables in DKA that i'm really scratching my head. I mean you can say Sorin and Liliana balance each other out but there are no slamdunk obvious picks for the top playable cards in DKA...
There's no way i'm buying a box this time around and i'll stick to 1 prerelease for sure.
I made an account just because this was starting to drive me a little batty.
First off let me say that I am a relatively new player, I was introduced to Magic in May of 2011, so I have been playing around 8 months now. I have 5 tournaments under my belt, most of them release tournaments and FNM.
However, although I am still fairly green, it is clearly visible to see how fast the formats are these days, most decks I check out on WotC from Grand Pri's and such are aggressive power-houses. Everyone seems to go for fast and efficient cards that end games as quickly as 4-5 turns.
What has me frustrated is the constant bickering about high-costed creatures and spells and the common "vs Titan" and "vs Dismember" scorn that a lot of them are receiving. From my personal perspective Dark Ascension doesn't look very thrilling, but there are some very exciting and interested cards that would have most people happy except for those 3 common debates, cost, titan, and dismember.
Now I could be wrong but maybe this is a sign that WotC are planning to shift the speed of the game to a slower, and more deliberate pace? The Mirrodin block and M12 sets are passing the buck near the late end of 2012.
Perhaps with the arrival of "Hook" and M13 we will start seeing games based around turns 7-9. I am sure there are many like me who wouldn't like to see 5-turn decks ruling the fields forever. The dynamics of the game should continue to shift throughout the years to bring different ways of playing into the spot-light in a consistent manner.
I am sorry if many find this a useless post, but I think that keeping the future meta in perspective is important, especially considering the fact that this block is gonna be around for a good while. Plus I know a lot of us are tired of the first response to new cards being "Dies to dismember", just my two cents.
As for Dark Ascension fully, I am fearful of its strong UW Spirit Group, I can definitely see it being a strong forerunner in the release tournaments and beyond in standard. I am disappointed in the mythics, they seem rather bland and situational, I am with most people in saying Archangel's Light is a huge let down in general.
The uncommon lords are excellent however, and very flavorful with superb artwork. I will be happy to play any of them in limited. I would have to say that White was most boring color for this set (excluding all spirit cards, which was expected). I like Green and Red the best for this set because it seems to play around the most with fun ideas and cards while I really have no opinion on Black.
All in all though I will be happy to join everyone else coming to the pre-release to test the new set out and hope for some good cards. ~Norik
Now I could be wrong but maybe this is a sign that WotC are planning to shift the speed of the game to a slower, and more deliberate pace? The Mirrodin block and M12 sets are passing the buck near the late end of 2012.
Perhaps with the arrival of "Hook" and M13 we will start seeing games based around turns 7-9. I am sure there are many like me who wouldn't like to see 5-turn decks ruling the fields forever. The dynamics of the game should continue to shift throughout the years to bring different ways of playing into the spot-light in a consistent manner.
I am sorry if many find this a useless post, but I think that keeping the future meta in perspective is important, especially considering the fact that this block is gonna be around for a good while.
People will always make quick efficient decks, as that is the best way to victory. Sure you say "Oh well what if games somehow last more commonly 7-9 turns". I say, how? Magic hasn't stopped creating cards to cater to fast aggressive play. I mean, U/w delver wasn't even a thing until innistrad, and that might be the fastest aggro deck in standard.
You can't state that "maybe wotc is trying to slow the game down" when almost every key component to the U/w tempo deck (Geist, snappy, delver, pike, etc) is from INNISTRAD, you know, the set thatll be standard the next 2 years and will cycle WITH dka. They obviously arent trying to slow things down when they're printing those types of cards within the block.
People will always make quick efficient decks, as that is the best way to victory. Sure you say "Oh well what if games somehow last more commonly 7-9 turns". I say, how? Magic hasn't stopped creating cards to cater to fast aggressive play. I mean, U/w delver wasn't even a thing until innistrad, and that might be the fastest aggro deck in standard.
You can't state that "maybe wotc is trying to slow the game down" when almost every key component to the U/w tempo deck (Geist, snappy, delver, pike, etc) is from INNISTRAD, you know, the set thatll be standard the next 2 years and will cycle WITH dka. They obviously arent trying to slow things down when they're printing those types of cards within the block.
Kind of funny that anyone running Delver didn't make T8 in Orlando though :).
Well even if I am abysmally wrong at least I got my thoughts out here none the less, I don't think aggro decks will ever vanish either, just saying we may see slower decks in the future that work just as well.
Or hoping so anyways.
Oh yeah my bad it was just that they all got eliminated by those not running Delver.
Like the finals had a no show of Delver.
To be fair, Conley and Chapin literally created their decks around beating delver decks... But yes, while not being in the final 2, 3 within the top 8 isn't too shabby. I don't think the archetype will leave anytime soon.
To be fair, Conley and Chapin literally created their decks around beating delver decks... But yes, while not being in the final 2, 3 within the top 8 isn't too shabby. I don't think the archetype will leave anytime soon.
Well their decks were obviously decent against the field also.
I mean it wasn't like Affinity at its peak in T2, before they banned most of the cards in affinity when 85-90% of the field was running Affinity.
Obviously this set isn't as powerful as other recent sets we've had. However I think people are really glancing over a lot of the effects and such in terms of standard. I found three cards that W/u Humans could use, and I'll try and figure out some way to shove in my deck. Not to mention 2 more sideboard cards.
People said the same thing about Innistrad, the same thing about MBS, and lots of people even said it about NPH.
Once cards start getting played, people start to realize it's not all doom and gloom. There are a lot of good cards in here.
I agree, people always judge so early.
I don't know whether the set is going to be good or not in constructed, but I'm not gonna make premature judgements.
I'm sure we will adapt to the set once it's released, and cards that seem bad now may be good in the future.
Worldwake was a stronger set than DKA. Its design was tighter and it pushed the mechanics of the block to the next level. No, DKA is... Homeland,
Sorry, but... stop right there.
As one who survived both FA and Homelands,
I can say with 100% certainty this set blows both of them out of the water.
As unimpressive as it might be, cards like Undying Evil, Vault of the Archangel, Sorin, Curse of Echoes, Avacyn's Collar, and Tragic Slip put every card in both of those sets to shame, with the lone exception of Hymn to Tourach.
Now imagine every Common is Bone to Ash, every Uncommon is Blood Feud,
and every Rare is Archangel's Light.
THAT is what opening a pack of FA was like... even as a brand new player :-P
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I like some of the commons and uncommons, but I can't see myself buying any of this set because there are maybe 6 rares/mythics that have a chance at being worth anything. The rest are utter trash. Seance? Feed the Pack? Markov Blademaster is RARE? This isn't Worldwake... the power level feels comparable to Ice Age.
As far as getting a box like I often do I have decided against that. The only obvious good chase cards are sorin and cage. While it is often the best value to buy the singles for any set, This seems a clear case of buy the singles instead if I decide I need them. But this set feels like if you buy a box you are likely to not even get half your value in trade fodder like you can with most other sets
Every other mythic and rare seems to have no or very limited constructed purposes.
The crappy lifegain mythic and the sword thing that wotc practically printed "this is for edh only" on are like the icing on the bad cake :/
Actually I would love for there to be a set with no rares or mythics but that means commons-uncommons need to be good.
The tribal lord cycle is really cool but just to weak to be anything worthwhile. If WOTC wanted it to be legit they could of added a toughness or power depending on the cards flavor or just 0/+1 on everyones butt. THAT would of made it unlikely but possible and worth brewing up some lists.
Monogreen stompy was ALMOST there and just not exciting enough with the support the dominant U/W is getting. Again this seems like such a waste on their part.
The only competitive viable archetype gets COMPLETELY dumped on by ratchet bomb so ill be excited to give B/W tokens a try.... but like in 9 months when scars rotates
----
and for limited I dunno, seems not to hurt it at all I guess, but DKA was so good I would be wary because it feels like it can only go down in quality
I guess what worries me is there were already so many combat tricks and interactions that were skill testing in INN that all of the DKA interactions and tricks just seem like WAYYY overload and the tight skill intensive feel is going to be replaced with a game that feels whacky. I think DKA was on the perfect side of the line between many interactions and tricks and then feeling like you cant play around anything because there are just so many possibilities
Oh yeah my bad it was just that they all got eliminated by those not running Delver.
Like the finals had a no show of Delver.
Because Turtenwald can phrase it better than I -
"This (Delver) is the decklist PV and Ochoa used to make Top 8, and the decklist I used myself (minus 1 Dismember plus 1 Celestial Purge). ... This deck was public enemy number 1 coming into the GP and putting two in the Top 8 (three if you count Steven Mann ...) ... Ochoa lost to Paulo and Paulo lost to Conley, when you realize that this deck lost to itself and a deck 100% designed just to beat it (RG ramp with Geth’s Verdict) then you can see why I think it’s still incredibly powerful. I think if you replayed this GP Top 8 a couple more times with random pairings each time then PV or Ochoa make the finals a staggering percent of the time, but that’s just my opinion. This deck was undoubtedly the best coming in..."
Owen Turtenwald.
I'm probably going to sound like a simpleton when I say this but... I like this set quite a bit. I like it because I like all the Wolves and Werewolves
Although I do recognize that those who buy sealed product of this set aren't likely to come anywhere near getting their money's worth out of it, but as someone who just buys singles this set is where it's at for me. There's lots of cards I really want (11 of them that I want sets of 4 of) from Dark Ascension and almost all of them are going to be cheap cheap cheap. I doubt I'll end up spending more than $30 USD on the whole order and I'll come out feeling like I definitely got my money's worth out of the set.
So, do I think it's a good set for hardcore Spike T2 players? Nah. Is it a good set for investors/traders who like buying loads of sealed product? Defnitely not. Is it a good set for someone like me who's had a casual tribal Wolf deck for years and has longed for WotC to print some reasonably good Wolf creatures for it? Hells yes it is!
It blows for now, especially when you consider the deck they are pushing (BW tokens) will just be worse than UW spirit tokens thanks to their insane lord and utility land that spits out the tokens. Though if they are powering things down, this set could become useful in October if they keep up with the power de-creep. But if they power things down that far, well sales are in trouble.
The sorry truth is is that power creep is needed to move product. Innistrad has sold well because it has a blue card that's a staple in every constructed format. Seriously, there are people at my LGS that have over 12 snapcasters, a playset for standard, modern, and legacy and one in their EDH deck. Nobody is going to want 12 Sorins.
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I don't fear the man who has played 10,000 decks once. I fear the man who played one deck 10,000 times.
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Once cards start getting played, people start to realize it's not all doom and gloom. There are a lot of good cards in here.
This set looks awesome for limited, though, looking to make the innistrad draft format continue to be very fun. Like Innistrad, this set doesn't seem to be for Spikes, but for the other demographics, especially the Vorthoses.
Maybe Thalia in 1vs1 edh decks
Mystic Retrievel is an auto include in any deck with UR in it
Increasing Vengeance pretty much replaces fork in any deck that runs it.
Shattered Perception is another Wheel of Fortune effect
Grim Flowering is amazing card draw for green. Since you're playing green you should be running a lot of creatures anyway.
Drogskill Reaver-I'm pretty sure there is a way to abuse that by gaining infinite life.
Havengful Lich is going to create amazing combos. I still rage that isn't legendary.
The two utility lands are very good.
Sorin is a a mind control that hits 3 creatures and can hit a walker or 2 or 3 for 4 mana.
Yeah...these cards are so terrible if you want to win in edh..I bet there is even more if you look at the spoiler.
BUG Dredge BUG]
WUBRG Storm WUBRG
UBR FaerieStalker UBR
EDH
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1vs1)
Maga, Traitor to Mortals (multiplayer)
Yeah the notion that Cage and Sorin are the only good cards in this set is laughable seriously.
I can easily see myself playing with 10 cards from this set in different competitive constructed environments and even more in more niche applications.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
I've said it in other threads, but the best part about this set is the art. I just really wanted the artwork to go along with better cards.
There's nothing even remotely close to Geist of St Traft, Snapcaster, brimstone volley, victim of the night, Delver of secrets, runechanter's pike, dissipate, ancient grudge etc etc etc.
I hate to poo poo an entire set but seriously, what.the.hell. We already knew innistrad was a power down from zendikar which was fine because the INN cards are extremely playable in a SOM-INN standard but there are so few playables in DKA that i'm really scratching my head. I mean you can say Sorin and Liliana balance each other out but there are no slamdunk obvious picks for the top playable cards in DKA...
There's no way i'm buying a box this time around and i'll stick to 1 prerelease for sure.
First off let me say that I am a relatively new player, I was introduced to Magic in May of 2011, so I have been playing around 8 months now. I have 5 tournaments under my belt, most of them release tournaments and FNM.
However, although I am still fairly green, it is clearly visible to see how fast the formats are these days, most decks I check out on WotC from Grand Pri's and such are aggressive power-houses. Everyone seems to go for fast and efficient cards that end games as quickly as 4-5 turns.
What has me frustrated is the constant bickering about high-costed creatures and spells and the common "vs Titan" and "vs Dismember" scorn that a lot of them are receiving. From my personal perspective Dark Ascension doesn't look very thrilling, but there are some very exciting and interested cards that would have most people happy except for those 3 common debates, cost, titan, and dismember.
Now I could be wrong but maybe this is a sign that WotC are planning to shift the speed of the game to a slower, and more deliberate pace? The Mirrodin block and M12 sets are passing the buck near the late end of 2012.
Perhaps with the arrival of "Hook" and M13 we will start seeing games based around turns 7-9. I am sure there are many like me who wouldn't like to see 5-turn decks ruling the fields forever. The dynamics of the game should continue to shift throughout the years to bring different ways of playing into the spot-light in a consistent manner.
I am sorry if many find this a useless post, but I think that keeping the future meta in perspective is important, especially considering the fact that this block is gonna be around for a good while. Plus I know a lot of us are tired of the first response to new cards being "Dies to dismember", just my two cents.
As for Dark Ascension fully, I am fearful of its strong UW Spirit Group, I can definitely see it being a strong forerunner in the release tournaments and beyond in standard. I am disappointed in the mythics, they seem rather bland and situational, I am with most people in saying Archangel's Light is a huge let down in general.
The uncommon lords are excellent however, and very flavorful with superb artwork. I will be happy to play any of them in limited. I would have to say that White was most boring color for this set (excluding all spirit cards, which was expected). I like Green and Red the best for this set because it seems to play around the most with fun ideas and cards while I really have no opinion on Black.
All in all though I will be happy to join everyone else coming to the pre-release to test the new set out and hope for some good cards. ~Norik
People will always make quick efficient decks, as that is the best way to victory. Sure you say "Oh well what if games somehow last more commonly 7-9 turns". I say, how? Magic hasn't stopped creating cards to cater to fast aggressive play. I mean, U/w delver wasn't even a thing until innistrad, and that might be the fastest aggro deck in standard.
You can't state that "maybe wotc is trying to slow the game down" when almost every key component to the U/w tempo deck (Geist, snappy, delver, pike, etc) is from INNISTRAD, you know, the set thatll be standard the next 2 years and will cycle WITH dka. They obviously arent trying to slow things down when they're printing those types of cards within the block.
Standard:
GBWAggressive Junk TokensGBW
"Some convictions are so strong that the world must break to accommodate them."
Kind of funny that anyone running Delver didn't make T8 in Orlando though :).
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
Or hoping so anyways.
Are you sure? Because im pretty sure Paulo Vitor Damo da Rosa ran 4... as did David Ochoa... as did Stephen Mann. 3rd, 4th, and 8th...
Standard:
GBWAggressive Junk TokensGBW
"Some convictions are so strong that the world must break to accommodate them."
Oh yeah my bad it was just that they all got eliminated by those not running Delver.
Like the finals had a no show of Delver.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
To be fair, Conley and Chapin literally created their decks around beating delver decks... But yes, while not being in the final 2, 3 within the top 8 isn't too shabby. I don't think the archetype will leave anytime soon.
Standard:
GBWAggressive Junk TokensGBW
"Some convictions are so strong that the world must break to accommodate them."
Well their decks were obviously decent against the field also.
I mean it wasn't like Affinity at its peak in T2, before they banned most of the cards in affinity when 85-90% of the field was running Affinity.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
Standard
WUW/U HumansUW
Modern
WBW/B TokensBW
I agree, people always judge so early.
I don't know whether the set is going to be good or not in constructed, but I'm not gonna make premature judgements.
I'm sure we will adapt to the set once it's released, and cards that seem bad now may be good in the future.
Sorry, but... stop right there.
As one who survived both FA and Homelands,
I can say with 100% certainty this set blows both of them out of the water.
As unimpressive as it might be, cards like Undying Evil, Vault of the Archangel, Sorin, Curse of Echoes, Avacyn's Collar, and Tragic Slip put every card in both of those sets to shame, with the lone exception of Hymn to Tourach.
Now imagine every Common is Bone to Ash, every Uncommon is Blood Feud,
and every Rare is Archangel's Light.
THAT is what opening a pack of FA was like... even as a brand new player :-P
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
As far as getting a box like I often do I have decided against that. The only obvious good chase cards are sorin and cage. While it is often the best value to buy the singles for any set, This seems a clear case of buy the singles instead if I decide I need them. But this set feels like if you buy a box you are likely to not even get half your value in trade fodder like you can with most other sets
Every other mythic and rare seems to have no or very limited constructed purposes.
The crappy lifegain mythic and the sword thing that wotc practically printed "this is for edh only" on are like the icing on the bad cake :/
Actually I would love for there to be a set with no rares or mythics but that means commons-uncommons need to be good.
The tribal lord cycle is really cool but just to weak to be anything worthwhile. If WOTC wanted it to be legit they could of added a toughness or power depending on the cards flavor or just 0/+1 on everyones butt. THAT would of made it unlikely but possible and worth brewing up some lists.
Monogreen stompy was ALMOST there and just not exciting enough with the support the dominant U/W is getting. Again this seems like such a waste on their part.
The only competitive viable archetype gets COMPLETELY dumped on by ratchet bomb so ill be excited to give B/W tokens a try.... but like in 9 months when scars rotates
----
and for limited I dunno, seems not to hurt it at all I guess, but DKA was so good I would be wary because it feels like it can only go down in quality
I guess what worries me is there were already so many combat tricks and interactions that were skill testing in INN that all of the DKA interactions and tricks just seem like WAYYY overload and the tight skill intensive feel is going to be replaced with a game that feels whacky. I think DKA was on the perfect side of the line between many interactions and tricks and then feeling like you cant play around anything because there are just so many possibilities
Boring...
Modern
WGBJunk:Feel the Rhinos WGB
RWUAmerican Taxes RWU
EDH
XKarn and the Living StaxX RETIRED
GWURoon of The Hidden RealmGWU
Because Turtenwald can phrase it better than I -
"This (Delver) is the decklist PV and Ochoa used to make Top 8, and the decklist I used myself (minus 1 Dismember plus 1 Celestial Purge). ... This deck was public enemy number 1 coming into the GP and putting two in the Top 8 (three if you count Steven Mann ...) ... Ochoa lost to Paulo and Paulo lost to Conley, when you realize that this deck lost to itself and a deck 100% designed just to beat it (RG ramp with Geth’s Verdict) then you can see why I think it’s still incredibly powerful. I think if you replayed this GP Top 8 a couple more times with random pairings each time then PV or Ochoa make the finals a staggering percent of the time, but that’s just my opinion. This deck was undoubtedly the best coming in..."
Owen Turtenwald.
Although I do recognize that those who buy sealed product of this set aren't likely to come anywhere near getting their money's worth out of it, but as someone who just buys singles this set is where it's at for me. There's lots of cards I really want (11 of them that I want sets of 4 of) from Dark Ascension and almost all of them are going to be cheap cheap cheap. I doubt I'll end up spending more than $30 USD on the whole order and I'll come out feeling like I definitely got my money's worth out of the set.
So, do I think it's a good set for hardcore Spike T2 players? Nah. Is it a good set for investors/traders who like buying loads of sealed product? Defnitely not. Is it a good set for someone like me who's had a casual tribal Wolf deck for years and has longed for WotC to print some reasonably good Wolf creatures for it? Hells yes it is!
The sorry truth is is that power creep is needed to move product. Innistrad has sold well because it has a blue card that's a staple in every constructed format. Seriously, there are people at my LGS that have over 12 snapcasters, a playset for standard, modern, and legacy and one in their EDH deck. Nobody is going to want 12 Sorins.