MTG Salvation

Assume that this is a DKA-ISD-ISD draft. Please ignore the financial value of the cards for the purposes of this discussion.

I think Counterlash and Burning Oil are both miles ahead of the rest of the cards. I'm not sure which is better, it really depends on the speed of the format.

I voted Burning Oil, for obvious reasons.

Wow, I'm glad that's not a real pack. I'd be furious.

But at least by grabbing Burning Oil I took the one decent card. Glad I don't have to see what's left when it tables...

Removal with flashback by far--Burning Oil it is.

has anyone else noticed that the rares in these hypothetical packs are always the most useless tripe in the set? Is this some conspiracy or am I the only one that didn't get the memo? I guess it wouldn't be very hard to pick if the lich was your rare, though.

EDIT: oh yeah, and burning whatever is the obvious pick imo.

Burning Oil. Spot removal you can use twice.

Burning Oil's obviously very good, but choosing a r/w card for the very first pack makes me a bit cautious. I'd go with the other red removal in the pack, Wrack with Madness, since I can't tell if white will be open or not.

But objectively, Burning Oil's easily the strongest card in the pack.

Burning Oil is the only good card in the pack, so we take it. Yeah, it's a color commitment, but from here on out we're looking to draft white and grab either an Evolving Wilds in this pack or a Traveler's Amulet or Shimmering Grotto in the next packs. We get to draft a strong color (white) and cherrypick good removal (Volleys, etc.) because our pack doesn't give good red cards to any of the 2-4 people to our left.

Counterlash is not good. Counter spells are hard enough to play in limited at 3cmc.

Buring Oil first pick

Recluse second pick.

burning oil by far, good enough even without flashback.

Why is everyone completely discounting Wrack With Madness and saying that the only red removal is Burning Oil? Even people who note that jumping into two colors quickly is bad still say, "but it's removal so we have to take it." Do people just look at Wrack with Madness as one of those "borderline playable even though it has perfectly good functionality" cards?

Quote from Aradon Templar

Why is everyone completely discounting Wrack With Madness and saying that the only red removal is Burning Oil? Even people who note that jumping into two colors quickly is bad still say, "but it's removal so we have to take it." Do people just look at Wrack with Madness as one of those "borderline playable even though it has perfectly good functionality" cards?

Wrack With Madness costs 4, is a sorcery, only happens once, and doesn't even kill anything that has greater toughness than power. Burning Oil is an instant that you can flash back, and it is efficiently costed (compare to basically any other burn spell with flashback in history and you will see the efficiency). Passing Burning Oil and taking Wrack With Madness isn't just an example of taking an objectively weaker card over a stronger one ... it also gives people 1-3 picks down the line a signal that you're not in red, whereas passing a pack with an uncommon missing and only one mediocre red card in it is a signal that red is probably not open. Furthermore, Wrack With Madness is a card that you would consider splashing in maybe 5% of your decks (and you will not enjoy doing it because it is so weak), whereas Burning Oil is good enough to splash in any deck that has either red OR white as a primary color. There are outside examples of bombs that Wrack With Madness deals with that Burning Oil doesn't (Havegul Runebinder, Bloodline Keeper, Ludevic's Abomination) but that makes it sideboard material, and you don't want to first-pick it basically ever.

Basically, picking Wrack With Madness over Burning Oil here is wrong on every possible level. It's a worse card at face value, it sends the wrong signals, and it is less versatile.

It's sad Burning Oil is the pick, because Red/White is just awful.

First of all, RW gets a lot better when you have Burning Oil.

Second, we don't have to be RW just because of Burning Oil. We can splash the second half off of Evolving Wilds and/or Grotto. Actually, Burning Oil is good enough that I would splash the front end if necessary.

I guess we could take the Vengeful Vampire if we like expensive evasive creatures with disappointingly low power more than we like removal, but there's really no good reason to.

Quote from onewheelwizzard

Wrack With Madness costs 4, is a sorcery, only happens once, and doesn't even kill anything that has greater toughness than power. Burning Oil is an instant that you can flash back, and it is efficiently costed (compare to basically any other burn spell with flashback in history and you will see the efficiency). Passing Burning Oil and taking Wrack With Madness isn't just an example of taking an objectively weaker card over a stronger one ... it also gives people 1-3 picks down the line a signal that you're not in red, whereas passing a pack with an uncommon missing and only one mediocre red card in it is a signal that red is probably not open. Furthermore, Wrack With Madness is a card that you would consider splashing in maybe 5% of your decks (and you will not enjoy doing it because it is so weak), whereas Burning Oil is good enough to splash in any deck that has either red OR white as a primary color. There are outside examples of bombs that Wrack With Madness deals with that Burning Oil doesn't (Havegul Runebinder, Bloodline Keeper, Ludevic's Abomination) but that makes it sideboard material, and you don't want to first-pick it basically ever.

Basically, picking Wrack With Madness over Burning Oil here is wrong on every possible level. It's a worse card at face value, it sends the wrong signals, and it is less versatile.

So... "borderline playable even though it has perfectly good functionality" then. If that's the case, I think people are seriously underestimating this card. There are only a handful of cards in DKA that Wrack doesn't kill, and most of those I wouldn't use removal on anyways. Most bombs are even p/t, and all the aggressive creatures have one more power than toughness. I understand that it's not as good as burning oil, but it's hardly 'so weak' that I'd feel bad about splashing it.

Saying that Wrack is less versatile than burning oil is fairly incorrect. That would be like comparing Rebuke to Path to Exile. Obviously not in power level, but if you consider that rebuke effects just can't hit utility creatures and other highly problematic creatures, you see why Path is played over Condemn. I would say that Wrack is more flexible/versatile, since it will deal with most creature-based problems, including things like vicious 8/8s or whatever stompy they manage to land, while Burning Oil is more effective in dealing with smaller threats. Considering the high density of smaller fliers in the format, Burning Oil's obviously the better card, but I don't think it's fair to say that people are going to assume red is taken if they just see a solid piece of removal.

What I'm saying is that it is that Wrack is a more flexible pick here in terms of color commitment, is about as versatile as a rebuke-style spell like Burning Oil, and doesn't send wrong signals. It's a worse card, but it has a better chance of being played.

Yeah, even though Burning Oil is the pick here..Wrack with Madness is still a very efficient, easily splashable, removal spell.

4 mana for a sorcery that can't get rid of Chapel Geist, Makeshift Mauler, Villagers/Howlpack of Estwald, Stitched Drake, Avacynian Priest, or Somberwald Spider is not my idea of "efficient." This is because every creature I just listed is common, will make virtually any decklist that runs its color, and is often the most relevant creature on your opponent's board.

I see Wrack With Madness as an important sideboard card against bombs like Olivia, Bloodline Keeper, Ludevic's Abomination, Reaper of the Abyss ... stuff like that. But I would feel pretty displeased if I had to maindeck it. It's like Smite the Monstrous, except Smite at least has enough better cards in its color that you often don't need to maindeck it just to end up with 23 playables.

I'd probably take Recluse and avoid locking myself into R/w. Nothing about this pack says that I'm picking my color based on first pick though...there's a good chance I won't even be playing it at the end.

I agree on burning oil, the flashback is often easily splashable. The only problem is I don´t like red very much in Innistrad. The Recluse is nice, but noone mentions the vampire, 6cmc hurts but in the right build i see him as a pretty annoying beater. I believe undying will be pretty strong.

Quote from onewheelwizzard

4 mana for a sorcery that can't get rid of Chapel Geist, Makeshift Mauler, Villagers/Howlpack of Estwald, Stitched Drake, Avacynian Priest, or Somberwald Spider is not my idea of "efficient." This is because every creature I just listed is common, will make virtually any decklist that runs its color, and is often the most relevant creature on your opponent's board.

I see Wrack With Madness as an important sideboard card against bombs like Olivia, Bloodline Keeper, Ludevic's Abomination, Reaper of the Abyss ... stuff like that. But I would feel pretty displeased if I had to maindeck it. It's like Smite the Monstrous, except Smite at least has enough better cards in its color that you often don't need to maindeck it just to end up with 23 playables.

I wouldn't call Somberwald Spider relevant, almost at any time in the game (unless he's Morbid, which is obviously so easy to do, and Burning Oil wouldn't kill him either, would it?)

Wrack kill's almost every creature in the set, outside of the few you listed and a couple others..oh and for reference, Burning Oil would only kill Chapel Geist and a non-flipped villagers.

Now look..I already said Burning Oil is the pick, and the better card..but Wrack is still very good..I don't get how you can't see this.

burning oil is far and away the pick. It's like 1WR kill any creature, or kill 2 creatures. So much better than rebuke and harvest pyre and the like.

If it were the first pack, i would easily go warden of the wall. someone explain to me why this is the wrong choice. I don't see why burning oil is all that great, it limits you to two colors that aren't very good. Warden of the Wall keeps up your options.

Defender is the key. It would be like first picking a 1 eyed scarecrow with flying. If you could attack with it, then yes it would be a reasonable first pick, but still weaker than burning oil.