So what happens is you use the lich to reanimate both Grimgrin and Keeper. Tap, make a vamp and sacrifice it to untap him. BAM! Infinite power/toughness on the lich.
So what happens is you use the lich to reanimate both Grimgrin and Keeper. Tap, make a vamp and sacrifice it to untap him. BAM! Infinite power/toughness on the lich.
Unless I am missing something that would cost 7BBBU (assuming Lich was already on the battlefield). That seems extremely inefficient just to swing with a big beater. Also the Lich has no way to go through on his own so you'd need more mana to clear a path...
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
You guys forget that Havengul Lich gains the abilities of the creatures he targets, not just the ability to resurrect them. So it is only 2 mana. Worse than Ooze sure but hey, it makes good backup.
Havengul Lich does have a targeting restriction. "Target creature card from a graveyard" actually reads as "target creature card in a graveyard." I got into this discussion before over Shaman's Trance and Horde of Notions and it basically boiled down to "from a graveyard" is part of the targeting restriction. You must target the Memnite card in the graveyard.
In addition, once the Memnite moves from the graveyard to the battlefield it is a completely new object. Should that Memnite creature go to the graveyard you may not cast it again without activating the Lich's ability targeting the Memnite card again. The Memnite doesn't keep any knowledge about effects affecting it as it moves through zones. The Memnite card that ends up in the 'yard after going through the cycle once is not considered the same Memnite card that was effected by the Lich's ability as far as the game is concerned.
Heartless Summoning is the way to go for this combo. No need for silly things like attacking or Grimgrins or Keepers, although keeping the Ooze's around may be prudent since the deck obviously plays Faithless Looting. A cheaper Lich is a happier Lich.
And Cage is not really a factor. Surgical Extraction and Nihil Spellbomb are both more effective against it than that card will be.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Bio-units terminate noise exchange. It is time for you to ingest sandwiches from my compartment.
Heartless Summoning is the way to go for this combo. No need for silly things like attacking or Grimgrins or Keepers, although keeping the Ooze's around may be prudent since the deck obviously plays Faithless Looting. A cheaper Lich is a happier Lich.
And Cage is not really a factor. Surgical Extraction and Nihil Spellbomb are both more effective against it than that card will be.
You can play around both extraction and spellbomb- don't let your combo pieces hit your bin, and only go off after checking their hand ala gixprobe, especially if we get a decent B discard spell or you have ample protection or redundancy to protect your combo- the only piece you need to let hit the bin is the priest, and you can easily fall back on machine gunning with myrs until they draw a 2nd. Spellbomb only wipes your bin once- you can just refill your bin or draw into another priest
Theres nothing you can do at all once cage hits the table. You need to have sideboarded in answers, or its impossible to do anything. They can pop it turn 1 on the go, and unless you have artifact hate in your deck, the only thing you can hope to do is beat through with overcosted vanilla creatures. No way to play around it. And even if you board in answers, you're still fighting a very, very, very uphill battle.
You can play around both extraction and spellbomb- don't let your combo pieces hit your bin, and only go off after checking their hand ala gixprobe, especially if we get a decent B discard spell or you have ample protection or redundancy to protect your combo- the only piece you need to let hit the bin is the priest, and you can easily fall back on machine gunning with myrs until they draw a 2nd. Spellbomb only wipes your bin once- you can just refill your bin or draw into another priest
Being able to bin your combo pieces is one of the strengths of the combo. Refusing to bin your important cards makes faithless looting a helluva lot worse in the deck. At least with the cage, 1) you always know about it, 2) it does nothing that hinders your search for answers (apart from stopping fb lootings), and 3) it may give your opponent a false sense of security that could compel him to tap out with only it to protect him.
Besides, I don't really see how waiting to draw a discard spell (which at best costs BB or B2 atm), or even probe+discard spell is any more convenient or expedient than waiting to draw artifact removal.
Theres nothing you can do at all once cage hits the table. You need to have sideboarded in answers, or its impossible to do anything. They can pop it turn 1 on the go, and unless you have artifact hate in your deck, the only thing you can hope to do is beat through with overcosted vanilla creatures. No way to play around it. And even if you board in answers, you're still fighting a very, very, very uphill battle.
There's room in the main for artifact hate. Manic Vandals and Steel Sabotage are both fine options that can remove the cage for 1 mana before you go off or remove/counter equipment to buy more time. Even in match ups where they are completely dead you can still cycle them with Looting or target your own Solemns.
And I guess I'll just have to respectfully disagree that 5/5 Wurmcoils as early as turn 3 are either overcosted or vanilla. Given both priests and heartless, you could also probably support some number of myr superions as well if you decide you need to try the aggro plan to win, and while those may certainly be vanilla, 0 is never too much to pay for a 4/5 or 5/6. A somewhat transformational sideboard that lets the deck go a little more aggro when necessary at the expense of combo consistency seems like another fine option.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Bio-units terminate noise exchange. It is time for you to ingest sandwiches from my compartment.
Heartless + Priest + Lich, seems like the better combo in the sense it can go off all at once on T6 into infinite with bbur2 mana and priest in hand or for one extra mana where priest is in the yard. Or it can go off T4 with the perfect draw. Where slime combo has to basically stick around a turn due to summoning sickness, so it's a turn slower and gives the opponent a draw step to find an answer.
The weakness of the lich combo in comparison is you need a card or ability in addition to utilize the infinite red mana. So fireball or spikeshot elder.
There are so many ways to abuse this combo and it is actually pretty easy to pull off,it is basically a 2 piece combo,since you need to drop Heartless Summoning to make the whole deck work at its full potential.
Put down your Priest and your Lich and abuse of anything red and black could offer: Wipe the board with Olivia,Limitless power Inferno Titan,Perilous Myr,Fireball,or even better Land filtering and limitless card draw with Olivia + Simulacrum,Perilous Titan with Olivia + Inferno.
In case you get caged,lucky you,choose from a huge pool of powerful creatures to crush your enemies or simply play Crush/Manic Vandal/Ancient Grudge or board out your Lich and choose another creature to replace it
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard
Boring...
Modern WGBJunk:Feel the Rhinos WGB RWUAmerican Taxes RWU
EDH XKarn and the Living StaxX RETIRED GWURoon of The Hidden RealmGWU
Lich combo already works (although this guy has no idea what hes talking about) Since it runs from the GY you can get away with a 4 card combo, especially since the myr can be devils play (from the GY). I should know, iv played against this since it came out
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Trolling can be defined as "A art, one specifically designed to misdirect, anger, or confuse others by reporting meaningful information in a clear, coherent way."
One day I will go infinate on a token combo then drop Scramble verse and watch as the trolling begins. That day will be a good day.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So what happens is you use the lich to reanimate both Grimgrin and Keeper. Tap, make a vamp and sacrifice it to untap him. BAM! Infinite power/toughness on the lich.
Tempered Steel W
UB ControlUB
Modern:
RDWR
EDH:
Ezuri G
art by sig.rizlawerks.
Unless I am missing something that would cost 7BBBU (assuming Lich was already on the battlefield). That seems extremely inefficient just to swing with a big beater. Also the Lich has no way to go through on his own so you'd need more mana to clear a path...
So you think a 4 card combo in standard is going to be at all reliable?
4 card combo that can go from the graveyard. Yes it is.
Test it for yourself. I have been since lich was previewed.
Lich is actually a worse version since this would take 12 mana to pull off
There ya go fixed it for ya
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
art by sig.rizlawerks.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
Magic CompRules
Scry Rollover Popups for Google Chrome
The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
And Cage is not really a factor. Surgical Extraction and Nihil Spellbomb are both more effective against it than that card will be.
You can play around both extraction and spellbomb- don't let your combo pieces hit your bin, and only go off after checking their hand ala gixprobe, especially if we get a decent B discard spell or you have ample protection or redundancy to protect your combo- the only piece you need to let hit the bin is the priest, and you can easily fall back on machine gunning with myrs until they draw a 2nd. Spellbomb only wipes your bin once- you can just refill your bin or draw into another priest
Theres nothing you can do at all once cage hits the table. You need to have sideboarded in answers, or its impossible to do anything. They can pop it turn 1 on the go, and unless you have artifact hate in your deck, the only thing you can hope to do is beat through with overcosted vanilla creatures. No way to play around it. And even if you board in answers, you're still fighting a very, very, very uphill battle.
Being able to bin your combo pieces is one of the strengths of the combo. Refusing to bin your important cards makes faithless looting a helluva lot worse in the deck. At least with the cage, 1) you always know about it, 2) it does nothing that hinders your search for answers (apart from stopping fb lootings), and 3) it may give your opponent a false sense of security that could compel him to tap out with only it to protect him.
Besides, I don't really see how waiting to draw a discard spell (which at best costs BB or B2 atm), or even probe+discard spell is any more convenient or expedient than waiting to draw artifact removal.
There's room in the main for artifact hate. Manic Vandals and Steel Sabotage are both fine options that can remove the cage for 1 mana before you go off or remove/counter equipment to buy more time. Even in match ups where they are completely dead you can still cycle them with Looting or target your own Solemns.
And I guess I'll just have to respectfully disagree that 5/5 Wurmcoils as early as turn 3 are either overcosted or vanilla. Given both priests and heartless, you could also probably support some number of myr superions as well if you decide you need to try the aggro plan to win, and while those may certainly be vanilla, 0 is never too much to pay for a 4/5 or 5/6. A somewhat transformational sideboard that lets the deck go a little more aggro when necessary at the expense of combo consistency seems like another fine option.
The weakness of the lich combo in comparison is you need a card or ability in addition to utilize the infinite red mana. So fireball or spikeshot elder.
It's turn 3 at the fastest.
Put down your Priest and your Lich and abuse of anything red and black could offer: Wipe the board with Olivia,Limitless power Inferno Titan,Perilous Myr,Fireball,or even better Land filtering and limitless card draw with Olivia + Simulacrum,Perilous Titan with Olivia + Inferno.
In case you get caged,lucky you,choose from a huge pool of powerful creatures to crush your enemies or simply play Crush/Manic Vandal/Ancient Grudge or board out your Lich and choose another creature to replace it
Boring...
Modern
WGBJunk:Feel the Rhinos WGB
RWUAmerican Taxes RWU
EDH
XKarn and the Living StaxX RETIRED
GWURoon of The Hidden RealmGWU
One day I will go infinate on a token combo then drop Scramble verse and watch as the trolling begins. That day will be a good day.