Control had its day in the sun for quite a while in the last couple years, since the ALA/ZEN standard.
Yes other decks have had times of peaking, but Control has had a strong presence. Maybe WotC have decided to swing the pendulum in the other direction. Control will undoubtedly get better cards in the next 2 sets, and i'm sure a control deck will find its way into becoming a regular top finisher at large tournaments.
For those complaining that Undying feels like lazy design, I kind of get where you're coming from but I don't think that's the case. What seems more likely that they went with this because they couldn't think of anything so they rehashed an old mechanic or that they felt that this was something the block needed and went with it despite it being very similar to persist?
If you ask me, the latter is the more likely scenario. Undying feels at home in this environment and hopefully they have learned some lessons from persist that will benefit the design of these cards.
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My EDH decks, check in and leave a comment. Always looking for new input.
Unfortuneatly I don't think this works. The second time your undying creature comes in it gets it's two -1/-1 counters on it as well as it's +1/+1 counter, SBA's are checked and it's put into the graveyard simultaneously as the counters are removed. So when the undying trigger looks back to just before it died it sees that it had a +1/+1 counter on it and doesn't trigger.
You are forgetting about the werewolf mechanic. Just because it doesnt have a specific name, the way werewolves play out in a game of magic is entirely unique, where you have to keep track of when and how many of the spells you play to make your creatures way more efficient compared to the mana you payed for them, and they can also flip back.
100% identical? Flip cards dont flip back. In the case of cards like Civilized Scholar and Screeching Bat flipping back is a unique and usable mechanic, as you can almost choose at any time which form you want to use. That is fundamentally different than with flip cards, where they invented a new mechanic for nearly every one of them which always stayed in the same form. In DKA they will also do stuff like creatures turning into Mind Control, and perhaps more.
The same goes for the bloodsucking mechanic for the Vampire tribe. It is not keyworded but it's a big part, and has it's own enabler in Curse of Stalked Prey. There is more to innistrad than just the naked abilities, you know.
You are still forgetting about both Morbid and Fateful Hour for argumentation sake...
Proliferate is an amazing Johnny mechanic but wizards was too afraid of it and never printed a truely great proliferate card. That is why I hope they revisit it soon and make better proliferators. Fateful Hour also has nice combo potential if it gets some good rares, so for that matter, I think there should be enough for you to work with
There were a lot of flip cards that turned into an enchantment, for example Erayo, Soratami Ascendant, so your statement just isn't true. The 'werewolf mechanic' is not notable enough to see as a separate mechanic. They could have made rules that caused flip cards to be able to flip back, but they didn't. That doesn't mean DFC's are very different, it means that they are like 99,5% the same instead of 100%.
Bloodsucking is as old as the Sliths in Mirrodin. There is still nothing new to that, you know.
Morbid is an ability word, which is already less special than a real keyword, and also not very innovative. Horror-set? So people die a lot? Ok, we have a mechanic. It fits very well, but it isn't shocking or mind-blowing.
Fateful hour is just the 10-life idea from zendikar, or lone cards like Convalescent Care or Second Chance. And again, it's an ability word.
If you think I'm just whining, and yes, that's partially true, look at the Ravnica block, or time spiral after that. Not all of the mechanics in those block were great (I heard lots of people disliked suspend for some reason), but most of them were innovative and mind-blowing. That's how I like it, and that's what I'm missing at the moment, especially when I see mechanics like undying.
Sphinx is really good. Control will play it and be able to protect him just fine, hes a much better finisher then Jwar Isle and thats saying a lot considering how good he alone is. Bazzar Trader.dec now has 16 threaten effects. Thats really, really, really,really good. Really good.
Swing with your 2/1 haste infect creature. It dies (from combat or during your upkeep), but you get it back bigger, and you get Glistening Oil back. So, put it back on, swing with a 3/2 haste infect (unless it'd die in combat), then remove the +1/+1 counter during your upkeep and repeat.
A competitive strategy? Probably not, no, but certainly amusing. It's not really as good without haste, either.
I can't really say how the mechanic is going to work overall (from a competitive standpoint, at least) because we've only seen 2 cards, one of which is good and the other is rather mediocre. It does have a lot of potential to be a powerful mechanic on the right card, but it's not itself inherently broken, especially if Strangleroot Geist ends up being the most powerful Undying card or something dumb like that. Also, if they don't print at least one Phoenix with Undying, I will be moderately disappointed, even though phoenixes don't really fit the "horror" theme... it just seems a really good opportunity.
I am sincerely looking forward to seeing how the rest of the Undying cards work out, but I am already looking to put Strangleroot Geist together with Hex Parasite in some type of MGA or Gr Metalcraft deck (maybe I can finally use my Ezuri's Brigade).
Spirit also looks to be a dominant creature type in Dark Ascension, and this only makes Tallowisp stronger in Modern. I am building lists with Tallowisp, Strangleroot Geist, Geist of Saint Traft and Shining Shoal in Modern.
Lots of room for development here, just need to see what else pops out.
I think we can all agree that the mechanic will be as strong as the initial card. If the initial card is playable, tacking Undying on a viable Constructed card makes that card much more appealing to me.
I'm excited to see what they do with it. The uncommon is amazing i can't wait to see what a rare and mythic rare is like (assuming they put one in the set).
In pauper, decks that rely on Serrated Arrows (or fume spitter) for removal are going to cry. Scarscale Ritual could be good in a deck with enough undying creatures in it, as well.
Hm... if they release an enchantment or some trick to give zombies undying, Unbreathing Horde would have another trick to being unkillable in combat...
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Undying does not make a creature invincible against Infect, Black Sun's Zenith, or anything else of that effect. The counters do not cancel out before the creature dies. They will not recur. Please stop using that as an argument.
What I think would be cool is if sometime during the block they print an undying creature with a morbid trigger. It would probably have to be rare or mythic, but I think it would be cool to have a creature that fulfills its morbid trigger on its own.
Overall, I think the effect has potential. It would be sad if they only printed big beaters with the effect though. Part of what made persist cool was all the EtB triggers that you got with it like Muderous Redcap and Kitchen Finks.
So far, no ETB effects with the Undying creatures, which is surprising.
I thought we would have Kitchen Finks or Murderous Redcap 2.0 spoiled by now.
Vorapede is a fat beater, and Undying makes it better, but does Undying really make it that much better? It is a VERY aggressive creature that will perform extremely well when the Titans rotate, but probably not before then. For now, Vorapede is a great 5cc Pod target. Makes the other 5cc spoiled card completely unplayable in Constructed (which was to be expected).
3cc Undying card allows you to really hit for damage, but I am not sure if it is Constructed playable outside of Birthing Pod due to its 1/1 power/toughness stats.
Really, I am somewhat confused by the direction of Undying with the currently spoiled cards....
Swing with your 2/1 haste infect creature. It dies (from combat or during your upkeep), but you get it back bigger, and you get Glistening Oil back. So, put it back on, swing with a 3/2 haste infect (unless it'd die in combat), then remove the +1/+1 counter during your upkeep and repeat.
As far as I know it does not work. You don't remove a +1/+1 counter with glistening oil. You add a -1/-1 counter. This is not the same so it doesen't work. You need at least another "combo piece" like Hex Parasite to abuse it like you whant.
As far as I know it does not work. You don't remove a +1/+1 counter with glistening oil. You add a -1/-1 counter. This is not the same so it doesen't work. You need at least another "combo piece" like Hex Parasite to abuse it like you whant.
Since timespiral if an object has both +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters on it you remove 1 of each until only 1 type remain. Aslong as all the +1/+1 counters get removed before the creature dies you will get it back with undying.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
Since timespiral if an object has both +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters on it you remove 1 of each until only 1 type remain. Aslong as all the +1/+1 counters get removed before the creature dies you will get it back with undying.
Thanks for correcting. Now it's even stronger... I like ^^
EDIT:
I'd change this ruling, because since SoM the new mech. proliferate has taken part it's a really pitty. You could proliferate just the -1/-1 counters. So from my point of view it's relevant in some case But I know I'm just a small almost worthless player for WotC...
Perhaps I wasn't being too clear, I was asking if in the undying ruling the creature goes to the graveyard or not, so I assume from your response that the creature does indeed go to the graveyard first before coming back with a +1/+1 counter?
Yes I'm 95% sure it goes to the graveyard first. "return it to the battlefield under its owner's control with a +1/+1 counter on it" this means for me that the zone has switched/changed from battlefield to graveyard, and from the graveyard you'll bring it back into play(battle field) with this +1/+1 counter on it.
It def. does not stay on the BF like a creature with regeneration.
Undying is a bogstandard leaves the battlefield ability it triggers on the relevant creature leaving the battlefield and going to the graveyard. The creature will indeed be in the graveyard and will stay there until the ability resolves.
For it not to go to the graveyard it would have to be static ability that creates a replacement effect.
Otherwise Flayer of the Hatebound's effect wouldn't work.
Hatebound flayer triggers when a creature etb from the graveyard regardless of the reason, so not entirely sure where you got that impression from.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
Because I'm dumb and typed SHOULDN'T and not SHOULD. @_@ The creatures go to the graveyard and come back, otherwise Hatebound dude mcjigger's effect wouldn't work. They shouldn't come back from Exile or something.
Creature gets beaten up until it dies.
Undying triggers and goes on the stack, creature is shunted into the graveyard simultaneously.
Undying resolves, sees that the creature it's bringing back is in the graveyard and drags it back out and pops a counter on it.
This does allow interesting interactions with phantasmal images and metamorphs and whatnot as if you give them undying somehow then after it triggers you would get to choose a new creature to copy.
Seems like a cool though for a UB EDH deck. Clone their general to kill it then copy anything you want. I hadn't considered that.
Unless there is an Undying hoser or very few undying creatures, this mechanic seems broken.
Assuming there are enough undying creatures, my guess is that undying creatures plus overrun will be a force to be reckoned with. As someone who often plays green, this seems really strong. Maybe even too strong.
Yes other decks have had times of peaking, but Control has had a strong presence. Maybe WotC have decided to swing the pendulum in the other direction. Control will undoubtedly get better cards in the next 2 sets, and i'm sure a control deck will find its way into becoming a regular top finisher at large tournaments.
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
If you ask me, the latter is the more likely scenario. Undying feels at home in this environment and hopefully they have learned some lessons from persist that will benefit the design of these cards.
Dralnu
Isperia
Unfortuneatly I don't think this works. The second time your undying creature comes in it gets it's two -1/-1 counters on it as well as it's +1/+1 counter, SBA's are checked and it's put into the graveyard simultaneously as the counters are removed. So when the undying trigger looks back to just before it died it sees that it had a +1/+1 counter on it and doesn't trigger.
There were a lot of flip cards that turned into an enchantment, for example Erayo, Soratami Ascendant, so your statement just isn't true. The 'werewolf mechanic' is not notable enough to see as a separate mechanic. They could have made rules that caused flip cards to be able to flip back, but they didn't. That doesn't mean DFC's are very different, it means that they are like 99,5% the same instead of 100%.
Bloodsucking is as old as the Sliths in Mirrodin. There is still nothing new to that, you know.
Morbid is an ability word, which is already less special than a real keyword, and also not very innovative. Horror-set? So people die a lot? Ok, we have a mechanic. It fits very well, but it isn't shocking or mind-blowing.
Fateful hour is just the 10-life idea from zendikar, or lone cards like Convalescent Care or Second Chance. And again, it's an ability word.
If you think I'm just whining, and yes, that's partially true, look at the Ravnica block, or time spiral after that. Not all of the mechanics in those block were great (I heard lots of people disliked suspend for some reason), but most of them were innovative and mind-blowing. That's how I like it, and that's what I'm missing at the moment, especially when I see mechanics like undying.
Swing with your 2/1 haste infect creature. It dies (from combat or during your upkeep), but you get it back bigger, and you get Glistening Oil back. So, put it back on, swing with a 3/2 haste infect (unless it'd die in combat), then remove the +1/+1 counter during your upkeep and repeat.
A competitive strategy? Probably not, no, but certainly amusing. It's not really as good without haste, either.
Other fun Johnny things include Ion Storm or Sage of Fables, the latter of which works really well with Ashnod's Altar.
I can't really say how the mechanic is going to work overall (from a competitive standpoint, at least) because we've only seen 2 cards, one of which is good and the other is rather mediocre. It does have a lot of potential to be a powerful mechanic on the right card, but it's not itself inherently broken, especially if Strangleroot Geist ends up being the most powerful Undying card or something dumb like that. Also, if they don't print at least one Phoenix with Undying, I will be moderately disappointed, even though phoenixes don't really fit the "horror" theme... it just seems a really good opportunity.
Spirit also looks to be a dominant creature type in Dark Ascension, and this only makes Tallowisp stronger in Modern. I am building lists with Tallowisp, Strangleroot Geist, Geist of Saint Traft and Shining Shoal in Modern.
Lots of room for development here, just need to see what else pops out.
I think we can all agree that the mechanic will be as strong as the initial card. If the initial card is playable, tacking Undying on a viable Constructed card makes that card much more appealing to me.
RR3
"trick candle deals 2 damage to each creature. At the beginning of the next end step trick candle deals 4 damage to each creature with undying."
Nin's theft
Mill all decks
bruna blink
If we have decent cards all the way along the chain this could get really crazy card advantage.
[[b]B]DCI Level 2 Judge[/B][/b]Overall, I think the effect has potential. It would be sad if they only printed big beaters with the effect though. Part of what made persist cool was all the EtB triggers that you got with it like Muderous Redcap and Kitchen Finks.
art by sig.rizlawerks.
I thought we would have Kitchen Finks or Murderous Redcap 2.0 spoiled by now.
Vorapede is a fat beater, and Undying makes it better, but does Undying really make it that much better? It is a VERY aggressive creature that will perform extremely well when the Titans rotate, but probably not before then. For now, Vorapede is a great 5cc Pod target. Makes the other 5cc spoiled card completely unplayable in Constructed (which was to be expected).
3cc Undying card allows you to really hit for damage, but I am not sure if it is Constructed playable outside of Birthing Pod due to its 1/1 power/toughness stats.
Really, I am somewhat confused by the direction of Undying with the currently spoiled cards....
As far as I know it does not work. You don't remove a +1/+1 counter with glistening oil. You add a -1/-1 counter. This is not the same so it doesen't work. You need at least another "combo piece" like Hex Parasite to abuse it like you whant.
Since timespiral if an object has both +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters on it you remove 1 of each until only 1 type remain. Aslong as all the +1/+1 counters get removed before the creature dies you will get it back with undying.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
No you're removing it or"exile it instead".
Thanks for correcting. Now it's even stronger... I like ^^
EDIT:
I'd change this ruling, because since SoM the new mech. proliferate has taken part it's a really pitty. You could proliferate just the -1/-1 counters. So from my point of view it's relevant in some case But I know I'm just a small almost worthless player for WotC...
Yes I'm 95% sure it goes to the graveyard first. "return it to the battlefield under its owner's control with a +1/+1 counter on it" this means for me that the zone has switched/changed from battlefield to graveyard, and from the graveyard you'll bring it back into play(battle field) with this +1/+1 counter on it.
It def. does not stay on the BF like a creature with regeneration.
Undying is a bogstandard leaves the battlefield ability it triggers on the relevant creature leaving the battlefield and going to the graveyard. The creature will indeed be in the graveyard and will stay there until the ability resolves.
For it not to go to the graveyard it would have to be static ability that creates a replacement effect.
Hatebound flayer triggers when a creature etb from the graveyard regardless of the reason, so not entirely sure where you got that impression from.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
Seems like a cool though for a UB EDH deck. Clone their general to kill it then copy anything you want. I hadn't considered that.
Kemba | Linvala | Talrand | Geth | Krenko | Zada | Patron of the Orochi | Medomai | Athreos | Gisela | Trostani | Nin | Silumgar | Kaervek | Jarad | Xenagos | Sydri | Narset | Roon | Zurgo | Ghave | Marath | Uril | Tasigur | Animar | Riku | Riku | Sek'Kuar | Cromat
Assuming there are enough undying creatures, my guess is that undying creatures plus overrun will be a force to be reckoned with. As someone who often plays green, this seems really strong. Maybe even too strong.
G Elves
U Merfolk