unless the ability is particularly strong i dont see myself trying to make much use of the mechanic sitting in brimstone volley range does'nt seem very safe to me most of the time
unless the ability is particularly strong i dont see myself trying to make much use of the mechanic sitting in brimstone volley range does'nt seem very safe to me most of the time
I agree with this. Putting yourself in instant lose range from a 3 CMC instant seems like a really bad idea. Conceptually I like the concept, but they should have made it trigger at 10 life (lowering the power of the effects if need be).
I'm more interested in its effect on modern cause I want to see some interaction with it, phyrexian mama and death's shadow. Getting yourself to 5 health via phyrexian mana then getting an 8/8 for 1 with fateful hour.
I do think it will be better if there was a cheap life gain card with final hour, as a just-in-case they're playing red or pull a brimstone.
If I get a 2/1 for W that has a fateful hour +2/+2, I will play it over a vanilla 2/1. Much like I play galavnic blast over shock in a deck with 3+ artifacts.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
The fateful hour abilities seen so far are interesting. The one on the Human that poops out Humans is particularly interesting.
The thing is if you are that far ahead on the board where the +2/+2 to every creature in an all out attack would kill your opponent, you probably are not the one at 5 life. I think using Honor of The Pure and 3 CMC cards like Mirran Crusader and Geist of Saint Traft is probably just better. I can see boarding this guy in for the Delver Matchup, but then again, Timely Reinforcements is probably better.
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I think it's a poorly designed ability - it's entirely top-down design, made to fit with the theme of the set.
Mark Rosewater once did an article on Landfall, and why it was so wildly successful - paraphrasing here, he said it was because landfall rewarded players for doing something they were already doing (ie, play lands), and it reinforced that. Conversely, an ability like Hellbent only triggered in situations that you honestly didn't want to be it - with no cards in hand. One of your dudes getting +2/+2 isn't as good if you have no cards in hand.
Similarly, Fateful Hour is going to try and reward players for being in a situation they don't want to be in. If I have to get myself to 5 life in order for all my cards to "turn on," that's just begging for my opponent to pull the rug out from under me and leave me at 5 life with nothing to show for it.
As always, there will probably be at least one card that plays it off well, but in general, I'll skip that entire mechanic, thanks.
the mechanic is worth a try, but too risky to print a lot of, so god news is it only gets a small sets worth of cards to play with.
personally, I think if one card could make it better, it would be a wrath type card, with final hour chaining it to only your opponents creatures. other than a very few cards, the risk is not worth the reward. It's a draft mechanic, in draft I could see it's effects help turn the tide, especially in the stalemate games where nothing is going on.
On the other hand, now phyrexian unlife has a new fun toy and might actually convince jhonny to pick it up and play with it.
It could be paired well with Dismember and perhaps a few other phyrexian cards. The basis would be that midgame you may be at around 9 life. You could destroy an opponents creature at the alternate cost and then use a powerful fateful hour effect to win the game.
Control and blue/black is naturally going to benefit from this more because they are use to operating at low health toward the end of the game, in which case they only need to drop a big creature or effect to win.
Why are people thinking of 'abusing' fateful hour?
Put cards with he abilities in your deck. Play with the deck like you normally would. If you drop below 5 life, you get a boost, and can possibly make a comeback.
On that note, I hope there is a gain 3 life, fateful hour gain 10 for W kind of card.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
Why are people thinking of 'abusing' fateful hour?
Put cards with he abilities in your deck. Play with the deck like you normally would. If you drop below 5 life, you get a boost, and can possibly make a comeback.
On that note, I hope there is a gain 3 life, fateful hour gain 10 for W kind of card.
because this requires the cards to be playable at their normal value. which shouldn't be the case because of the mechanic. also, the life gain card would probably be more like 2 mana, 1 is just absurd. multiples of that could bring a player straight back to twenty. 6 or 8 is more fair.
because this requires the cards to be playable at their normal value. which shouldn't be the case because of the mechanic. also, the life gain card would probably be more like 2 mana, 1 is just absurd. multiples of that could bring a player straight back to twenty. 6 or 8 is more fair.
Note that I said hope
I know that would be relatively OP.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
I think it's a poorly designed ability - it's entirely top-down design, made to fit with the theme of the set.
Mark Rosewater once did an article on Landfall, and why it was so wildly successful - paraphrasing here, he said it was because landfall rewarded players for doing something they were already doing (ie, play lands), and it reinforced that. Conversely, an ability like Hellbent only triggered in situations that you honestly didn't want to be it - with no cards in hand. One of your dudes getting +2/+2 isn't as good if you have no cards in hand.
Similarly, Fateful Hour is going to try and reward players for being in a situation they don't want to be in. If I have to get myself to 5 life in order for all my cards to "turn on," that's just begging for my opponent to pull the rug out from under me and leave me at 5 life with nothing to show for it.
As always, there will probably be at least one card that plays it off well, but in general, I'll skip that entire mechanic, thanks.
I don't think it's poorly designed at all.
It's not trying to make players get to 5 life intentionally, you don't have to 'turn on' the ability.
(Although it is possible with phyrexian mana, and there may well be a card worth doing it intentionally)
It's trying to help players 'IF' they get down to 5 life, if they're at deaths door.
Thraben Doomsayer and Gather the Townsfolk are both (possibly playable) when you ignore the 'fateful hour' ability, but when you're at 5 life they could help to change the outcome of the game.
And that's what they're meant for, not to intentionally get to 5 life.
I would like a creature that says...
Fateful Hour: All your creatures get lifelink.
It's not trying to make players get to 5 life intentionally, you don't have to 'turn on' the ability.
(Although it is possible with phyrexian mana, and there may well be a card worth doing it intentionally)
It's trying to help players 'IF' they get down to 5 life, if they're at deaths door.
Thraben Doomsayer and Gather the Townsfolk are both (possibly playable) when you ignore the 'fateful hour' ability, but when you're at 5 life they could help to change the outcome of the game.
And that's what they're meant for, not to intentionally get to 5 life.
I would like a creature that says...
Fateful Hour: All your creatures get lifelink.
I really like the new mechanics, including Fateful Hour (I play G/W Humans myself), but the problem that I see with it is simple, a lot of people wouldn't be risking his games because at 5 life we are at an instant (or a couple) of being dead.
Then, we need some kind of defense while at that range of life... maybe some white instant with "Fateful Hour: counter target spell" or a green instant with "Fateful Hour: redirect harmful spell to target creature you control". I don't know, I'm not good at that, but you understand me.
IMO, the risk it supposes would make people don't spells with that mechanic and just stick to more "normal" spells.
With humans and tokens being real decks, slapping Fateful Hour on Thraben Doomsayer seems absurdly strong. I mean, I'd already play him in tokens and humans regardless (and dear God does Champion of the Parish love this guy), but throwing the +2/+2 on him means that we're going to see some crazy comebacks from token and human decks. Not always, mind you, but more often than people are willing to think, I gatherer.
If the first thing you think about when you see Fateful Hour is abusing it, you're probably doing it wrong. Fateful Hour will serve to correct one weakness of weenie aggro decks: cards that are awesome early in the game (especially one and two drops) have extremely little impact when your back is against the wall. The good Fateful Hour cards are those like Thraben Doomsayer and Gather the Townsfolk that are playable early in the game and awesome when your back is to the wall as well.
Fateful Hour is my favorite mechanic of Dark Ascension. (Though I may be biased as my favorite deck type is white weenie, lol)
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Potentially abuseable with phyrexian mana. Especially with spellskite, which enables it and protects you from nasty instant -wins from Brimstone Volleys
Exactly.
Seriously we have a 1-drop (Hex Parasite) AND 2-drop that have a huge scope of uses that could combo with powerful "Fateful Honor" cards.
It's too early to know the impact but if you know when to "hold-em" or "fold-em", there seems to be potential!
It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
It's high risk, moderate reward, from what I've seen so far. I personaly won't build around it, but I do find my self in the 5 or less range so the cards will help. I agree with the comment saying that the mechanic needs a single card to save it. If they can do that single card, and make it VERY good, Fateful Hour will have a chance.
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Why are people thinking of 'abusing' fateful hour?
Put cards with he abilities in your deck. Play with the deck like you normally would. If you drop below 5 life, you get a boost, and can possibly make a comeback.
On that note, I hope there is a gain 3 life, fateful hour gain 10 for W kind of card.
That. Realistically, this is (from what we can currently see) more of a draft mechanic than something we'll build around in standard. However, the cards revealed so far aren't bad without the Fateful Hour mechanic. I'll be playing Thraben Doomsayer for his token making. If I'm down at 5 life and he's out, hey, swell, mini-Elesh Norn effect. But that's not the focus.
I don't think that this ability is going to be a build-around-me mechanic for Standard or Modern. In Legacy there are definitely decks that can reliably get themselves to a low life-total and stay there under a blanket of counters, and if they print something rewarding enough then I can see something big happening there. For Standard you'd want to play powerful cards that also happen to have Fateful Hour, unless they print a very serious enabler. I suppose a white instant at 1 or 2 mana that gains several life normally or a ton with Fateful Hour could be useful in decks that already liked Pulse of the Fields, but even that seems... mediocre.
Without having seen other cards (obviously), I really don't like the mechanic for limited. I can't think of any ISD draft cards that it works well with-- just seems like it's out of left field.
It's pointless to be afraid of brimstone volley, the last mono red builds I've seen run volt charge instead. I also think the mechanic is inherently bad, but I have no doubt there will be a card that will be good without fateful hour, but just have it as a bonus.
This card will be the worst rare in RTR and less remembered than skaab ruibator in three months. It struggles to be on the same power level as mass of ghouls, even in limited.
That its not simply "not good enough for competitive", or underpowered. But that this is offensively bad, the real stinker tier.
Still, my best evaluation is that its approximately on the same power level as a 4/4 for 4 vanilla beater.
Come on, people. The keyword is not for "building around." It is just nifty on cards that are already good that get a random awesome boost in the late-game. I think people will like this ability if they just see it for what it is.
How will they influence your draft picks?
How often do you think they will be active?
I agree with this. Putting yourself in instant lose range from a 3 CMC instant seems like a really bad idea. Conceptually I like the concept, but they should have made it trigger at 10 life (lowering the power of the effects if need be).
I do like the interaction with phyrexian mana.
I do think it will be better if there was a cheap life gain card with final hour, as a just-in-case they're playing red or pull a brimstone.
If I get a 2/1 for W that has a fateful hour +2/+2, I will play it over a vanilla 2/1. Much like I play galavnic blast over shock in a deck with 3+ artifacts.
The thing is if you are that far ahead on the board where the +2/+2 to every creature in an all out attack would kill your opponent, you probably are not the one at 5 life. I think using Honor of The Pure and 3 CMC cards like Mirran Crusader and Geist of Saint Traft is probably just better. I can see boarding this guy in for the Delver Matchup, but then again, Timely Reinforcements is probably better.
N/A
Modern:
Grishoalbrand / Grixis Death's Shadow / Jeskai Control / UW Control
R
Mark Rosewater once did an article on Landfall, and why it was so wildly successful - paraphrasing here, he said it was because landfall rewarded players for doing something they were already doing (ie, play lands), and it reinforced that. Conversely, an ability like Hellbent only triggered in situations that you honestly didn't want to be it - with no cards in hand. One of your dudes getting +2/+2 isn't as good if you have no cards in hand.
Similarly, Fateful Hour is going to try and reward players for being in a situation they don't want to be in. If I have to get myself to 5 life in order for all my cards to "turn on," that's just begging for my opponent to pull the rug out from under me and leave me at 5 life with nothing to show for it.
As always, there will probably be at least one card that plays it off well, but in general, I'll skip that entire mechanic, thanks.
personally, I think if one card could make it better, it would be a wrath type card, with final hour chaining it to only your opponents creatures. other than a very few cards, the risk is not worth the reward. It's a draft mechanic, in draft I could see it's effects help turn the tide, especially in the stalemate games where nothing is going on.
On the other hand, now phyrexian unlife has a new fun toy and might actually convince jhonny to pick it up and play with it.
Control and blue/black is naturally going to benefit from this more because they are use to operating at low health toward the end of the game, in which case they only need to drop a big creature or effect to win.
Put cards with he abilities in your deck. Play with the deck like you normally would. If you drop below 5 life, you get a boost, and can possibly make a comeback.
On that note, I hope there is a gain 3 life, fateful hour gain 10 for W kind of card.
because this requires the cards to be playable at their normal value. which shouldn't be the case because of the mechanic. also, the life gain card would probably be more like 2 mana, 1 is just absurd. multiples of that could bring a player straight back to twenty. 6 or 8 is more fair.
Note that I said hope
I know that would be relatively OP.
Brimstone Volley is a real card and will ALWAYS kill you. Because of that I'm ignoring this mechanic completely.
I don't think it's poorly designed at all.
It's not trying to make players get to 5 life intentionally, you don't have to 'turn on' the ability.
(Although it is possible with phyrexian mana, and there may well be a card worth doing it intentionally)
It's trying to help players 'IF' they get down to 5 life, if they're at deaths door.
Thraben Doomsayer and Gather the Townsfolk are both (possibly playable) when you ignore the 'fateful hour' ability, but when you're at 5 life they could help to change the outcome of the game.
And that's what they're meant for, not to intentionally get to 5 life.
I would like a creature that says...
Fateful Hour: All your creatures get lifelink.
I really like the new mechanics, including Fateful Hour (I play G/W Humans myself), but the problem that I see with it is simple, a lot of people wouldn't be risking his games because at 5 life we are at an instant (or a couple) of being dead.
Then, we need some kind of defense while at that range of life... maybe some white instant with "Fateful Hour: counter target spell" or a green instant with "Fateful Hour: redirect harmful spell to target creature you control". I don't know, I'm not good at that, but you understand me.
IMO, the risk it supposes would make people don't spells with that mechanic and just stick to more "normal" spells.
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Fateful Hour is my favorite mechanic of Dark Ascension. (Though I may be biased as my favorite deck type is white weenie, lol)
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Exactly.
Seriously we have a 1-drop (Hex Parasite) AND 2-drop that have a huge scope of uses that could combo with powerful "Fateful Honor" cards.
It's too early to know the impact but if you know when to "hold-em" or "fold-em", there seems to be potential!
That. Realistically, this is (from what we can currently see) more of a draft mechanic than something we'll build around in standard. However, the cards revealed so far aren't bad without the Fateful Hour mechanic. I'll be playing Thraben Doomsayer for his token making. If I'm down at 5 life and he's out, hey, swell, mini-Elesh Norn effect. But that's not the focus.
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Without having seen other cards (obviously), I really don't like the mechanic for limited. I can't think of any ISD draft cards that it works well with-- just seems like it's out of left field.