But, as I've been trying to ask all along, what does Daybreak Ranger actually do within the meta (And don't give me that "there is no meta because we are on a rotation cycle", there's 50 threads in this forum speculating on the post-rotation meta)?
There are a few types of deck in Standard right now. Daybreak Ranger is very good against aggro decks. Sure, it can be removed, but that's not such a bad thing against most red decks. If your opponent spends his third turn playing Incinerate instead of Shrine of Burning Rage or Stormblood Berserker, you're in good shape. Tempered Steel doesn't have a lot of cards to deal with Ranger, and it even takes care of a few of their creatures when it's not flipped. Illusions die to a single activation of Nightfall Predator, and Lord of the Unreal doesn't fair much better. Humans generally don't have a lot of outs to Ranger, and they don't have many instants either.
There are a couple of midranged decks in Standard. Birthing Pod decks have trouble with repeatable removal. If you can kill every 4-drop they manage to Pod into, you'll do just fine. Again, this is a deck with no instants, so Daybreak flips easily. Tokens can't do too much to stop Ranger, and he can even knock down a few fliers. Blade decks play Hero of Bladehold and Snapcaster Mage. Most of Grand Architect's creature's will die to Predator.
It's not amazing against most control decks, but Daybreak has some function anyway. He can kill Snapcaster Mage and Phantasmal Image in Solar Flare. Most Solar Flare decks draw and pass, but with a Daybreak Ranger out you can force them to play cards on their turn or get hit by a 4/4. UB and UW Control decks face similar problems as Solar Flare does.
Sure, this card isn't amazing against Tezzeret or Burning Vengeance. It's not perfect for every matchup, but it can provide tons of advantage through removal and beatings. It's not going to be a meta-defining card and it takes the proper deck to make this card good, but in the right deck it can work wonders.
Since Daybreak will see play and will be at least $3-5, I require video of you eating your hat. Heck, Daybreak isn't even a sleeper anymore, everyone knows it's good by this point. I hear blowing out Tempered Steel WITHOUT EVEN FLIPPING is a good thing.
Given how terrible singles prices are for this set, there's a ton of sleepers:
Splinterfright: In a Zoo deck this thing gets scary quick. I could see it getting played even outside Standard. I couldn't believe that this thing was only $2...I'm gobbling them up.
Kessig Cagebreakers: If I'm right, Hero of Bladehold is a $10 card. This is only 1 more mana, splashable, and will probably make a LOT more tokens that stay much more relevant without their creator around. The 1 mana makes a difference, and they go in different decks, but the comparison is sound.
Bloodgift Demon: It will see play as a 2-of in a control deck somewhere.
Geist-Honored Monk: Last I checked, Cloudgoat Ranger was a pretty good card. This is usually better.
(Also, this Solar Flare thing seems terrible. I can't wait to see it in action so I can run it over. Guess I'd better dust off my Nihil Spellbombs though...)
Completely agree w/ your card choices except I think Splinterfright is more of a x1-x3 card so that will lower the ceiling. Also Cagebreakers is probably also a x1-x3 of that is tutored many times by GSZ.
Biggest surprise, imo is the lack of love for Geist-Honored Monk... it just seems so good in a variety of mono-White or W/X decks right now... chump blockers, sword carriers, and better w/ more creatures (insane in multiples). Heck, there's even token support in Innistrad, lol!
It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
Unless I'm missing something, what creatures with flying and two or less toughness are seeing substantial enough play to warrant Daybreak Ranger?
I can think of Glint Hawk, the Idol, Ornithopter and Chandra's Phoenix. None of the former three can be killed with the un-flipped Daybreak once a Tempered Steel has been dropped, and Chandra's Phoenix comes back pretty easily, so all he really does is nullify one Phoenix at a time if he manages to survive burn.
Unless I'm missing something, what creatures with flying and two or less toughness are seeing substantial enough play to warrant Daybreak Ranger?
I can think of Glint Hawk, the Idol, Ornithopter and Chandra's Phoenix. None of the former three can be killed with the un-flipped Daybreak once a Tempered Steel has been dropped, and Chandra's Phoenix comes back pretty easily, so all he really does is nullify one Phoenix at a time if he manages to survive burn.
ornithopter isn't legal in standard and you forgot vault skirge, birds of paradise, and spirit tokens (from moorland haunt and other cards).
you do know he has a back side right? i mean... that is the main draw of the card after all...
How are you using Memory's Journey, DakmorQueen? Are you using it to shuffle cards into your library or opponents' libraries? If you're shuffling them into your library, are you searching for them later?
Also, what format are you playing this card in? Standard, Modern, Extended, Legacy, Vintage, Casual, EDH, Block Constructed, or what?
How are you using Memory's Journey, DakmorQueen? Are you using it to shuffle cards into your library or opponents' libraries? If you're shuffling them into your library, are you searching for them later?
Also, what format are you playing this card in? Standard, Modern, Extended, Legacy, Vintage, Casual, EDH, Block Constructed, or what?
So far I've only truly played it in limited, but I've playtested it in modern to similar results. I've used it both ways. It's useful if your opponent is flooded and trying to discard lands and I use it for my big nonflashback spells. I have been using tutors as well, which makes it much better.
(I only play modern and standard (With some limited), so take my opinion as you will.)
So far I've only truly played it in limited, but I've playtested it in modern to similar results. I've used it both ways. It's useful if your opponent is flooded and trying to discard lands and I use it for my big nonflashback spells. I have been using tutors as well, which makes it much better.
(I only play modern and standard (With some limited), so take my opinion as you will.)
Unless the game goes extremely long, you'll generally get about 1 card out of shuffling 6 spells back into your deck. It changes the spell probability from .6 to .65, if you had 40 cards left in your deck (which is being generous). This is a reasonably insignificant, when you consider that you'll be losing a card and tempo.
Maybe in Limited if you go from 12/20 to 18/26, it could be a bit significant. Even then though, it won't help against aggressive decks that want to beat you quickly.
I've used the card, but only as a way to make sure that Mirror-Mad Phantasm doesn't completely mill me out.
Unless the game goes extremely long, you'll generally get about 1 card out of shuffling 6 spells back into your deck. It changes the spell probability from .6 to .65, if you had 40 cards left in your deck (which is being generous). This is a reasonably insignificant, when you consider that you'll be losing a card and tempo.
Maybe in Limited if you go from 12/20 to 18/26, it could be a bit significant. Even then though, it won't help against aggressive decks that want to beat you quickly.
I've used the card, but only as a way to make sure that Mirror-Mad Phantasm doesn't completely mill me out.
The way I see it is every card has a fan. Is it perfect? No, that's silly. Is it fun? That's where it got me. I think it's fun and I like the odd looks when my limited deck has about five in it. (Yes, that's happened)
The reason I asked whether you shuffled cards into opponents' libraries is because Memory's Journey looks like it has a bit of promise as graveyard hate (not too much, but a bit). Graveyard hosers tend to do a better job, though, even if they are one-shot.
The reason I asked whether you shuffled cards into opponents' libraries is because Memory's Journey looks like it has a bit of promise as graveyard hate (not too much, but a bit). Graveyard hosers tend to do a better job, though, even if they are one-shot.
Yeah. I thought that too. I do wish it was a mod-spell.
It's been mentioned once or twice, but I'd have to say Runechanter's Pike. When i first saw that card, it reminded me of Tarmogoyf. Now, I'm definitely not saying it's comparable to goyf, but it made me think of it in the way that it seems just okay until you remember how quickly you can get stuff into the graveyard. Then again, I mostly play Legacy, and it's not uncommon to have a Swords, Brainstorm, and Daze or Force in your graveyard in the first turn or two.With the right combinatino of aggro/control, you could easily be swinging with a 5/2 (or larger) first strike Stoneforge Mystic on turn 4. Or you can block opposing goyfs or Batterskulls all day.
Has anyone mentioned Instigator Gang yet? That seems like it would be incredibly powerful with something like Kuldotha Rebirth.
Not sure, but Instigator Gang is definitely a card I've had my eye on. A potential 8/5 trampler with triple battle cry for 4 splashable mana just sounds like it needs to be exploited. Even when it's a human it can battle cry without risking itself, which also sounds pleasant
ornithopter isn't legal in standard and you forgot vault skirge, birds of paradise, and spirit tokens (from moorland haunt and other cards).
you do know he has a back side right? i mean... that is the main draw of the card after all...
I swear there's a three-way love affair between Kruin Outlaw, Instigator Gang and Daybreak Ranger; if they had creatures on the board when these three flip, it doesn't matter in the slightest. They need 3 or more huge fatties to withstand 27 damage / 20 damage and the removal of a less-than-4-toughness creature.
He's Werewolf Support. I play Daybreak Ranger in almost as much of a lord position as the Mayor and the Outlaw; your Werewolves need to do big damage quickly when they can. Daybreak sniping things out of the air or Nightfall punching things in the face helps that happen. All. The. Time.
My picks for sleeper cards at the moment are every single Werewolf. People underestimate how much Werewolves are going to force their plays; almost any combo/draw-go deck has lost to my wolves, because they need to drop a combo piece/play cards early or in their turn in order to prevent 20 damage on turn 4.
I love Werewolves because they force people to play real Magic. None of this useless Blue control ****. Play creatures in your own turn like a man.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Official DCI Rules Advisor
Level 1 Judge
[box][box][size=3][b]CARDNAME[/b][/size] [float=right][mana]MANACOST[/mana][/float][/box]
[box][b]TYPE — SUBTYPE [float=right][color="RARITYCOLOUR"]{RARITY}[/color][/b][/float][/box][box]RULES TEXT
[i]FLAVOUR TEXT[/i][/box][float=right][box=50][b][SIZE="3"]P/T[/SIZE][/b][/box][/float][/box]
i know its unlikely and i probably sound crazy, but i really think heretic's punishment has some potential it really reminds me of the old draco decks but with repeatable effect
Kessig Wolf Run - If you ramp and you play creatures, any one of those creatures become a threat. This card with Primeval Titan could be seriously good.
Moorland Haunt - It's already seeing some play, and should continue to do so. Each body you have can later produce a 1/1 flier, for WU,T built into your manabase. Looks very strong, especially with Intangible Virtue and . . . . .
Ratchet Bomb - Not from Innistrad, but it could bounce back up. If tokens ever do matter, I'm sure this will increase. And it's already powerful against transform cards and potent versus aggro decks.
Whether or not it worked does not validate the play. That's hindsight probability. Let's say I offered you a bet -- I'm going to flip a coin and if it's heads, I'll give you 1 dollar but if it's tails, you'll give me 2 dollars. This is obviously a terrible bet for you. Accepting it is a bad decision. You can't justify it afterwards by arguing that you won the flip, therefore you made the right decision.
The first place deck was a G/R deck, that could perfectally support a Daybreak Ranger and, not surprisingly, it has no copies of it, not even in the sideboard.
I'm sorry, guys, there's just no place for this card. It's clunky and ugly and too tough to keep on the board to actually do anything.
Also, Kessig Wolf Run is going to be a tank in the decks that can support it.
I'd say it's still too early for declaring anything NOT being a sleeper. I mean for all we know, Solar Flare will get it's butt kicked this weekend at States with all the meta hate and Wolf Run will be the new Valakut...
I've always thought Daybreak was a bit of a hype machine. As much as I like Kibler, his stunt of hyping at card was just insulting. I'd say that the fact he only ran two in his own build at the last big event is proof it's not holding it's salt.
The first place deck was a G/R deck, that could perfectly support a Daybreak Ranger and...
That's kind of silly.
Where would you ever find room for a DFC in a ramp deck?
How would it ever flip before you've reached Turn Titan (4/5)?
What good is it over Slagstorm against aggro?
It's not like flying.dec is a notable threat, either, so having it in the sideboard is kind of a wasted slot.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"He's the Micheal Jordan of drunk driving, and he played his last game tonight~"
That's kind of silly.
Where would you ever find room for a DFC in a ramp deck?
How would it ever flip before you've reached Turn Titan (4/5)?
What good is it over Slagstorm against aggro?
It's not like flying.dec is a notable threat, either, so having it in the sideboard is kind of a wasted slot.
I don't know, why don't you ask the people who think Daybreak is a sleeper hit?
I worded that particular sentence wrong. It doesn't fit in the build and it doesn't fit in the meta. But, I was pointing out what people can do with those colors instead of putting in a sub-par card. Sorry, the deck doesn't really support it, your right, but that deck is what you do with those colors, not build something that can try to use a clunky rare.
I don't know, why don't you ask the people who think Daybreak is a sleeper hit?
I worded that particular sentence wrong. It doesn't fit in the build and it doesn't fit in the meta. But, I was pointing out what people can do with those colors instead of putting in a sub-par card. Sorry, the deck doesn't really support it, your right, but that deck is what you do with those colors, not build something that can try to use a clunky rare.
You know, not that I think Daybreak is actually good, but it DOES hit the best deck at the most recent round of tourneys very, very hard, because it kills Inkmoth Nexus with its untransformed side.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
There are a few types of deck in Standard right now. Daybreak Ranger is very good against aggro decks. Sure, it can be removed, but that's not such a bad thing against most red decks. If your opponent spends his third turn playing Incinerate instead of Shrine of Burning Rage or Stormblood Berserker, you're in good shape. Tempered Steel doesn't have a lot of cards to deal with Ranger, and it even takes care of a few of their creatures when it's not flipped. Illusions die to a single activation of Nightfall Predator, and Lord of the Unreal doesn't fair much better. Humans generally don't have a lot of outs to Ranger, and they don't have many instants either.
There are a couple of midranged decks in Standard. Birthing Pod decks have trouble with repeatable removal. If you can kill every 4-drop they manage to Pod into, you'll do just fine. Again, this is a deck with no instants, so Daybreak flips easily. Tokens can't do too much to stop Ranger, and he can even knock down a few fliers. Blade decks play Hero of Bladehold and Snapcaster Mage. Most of Grand Architect's creature's will die to Predator.
It's not amazing against most control decks, but Daybreak has some function anyway. He can kill Snapcaster Mage and Phantasmal Image in Solar Flare. Most Solar Flare decks draw and pass, but with a Daybreak Ranger out you can force them to play cards on their turn or get hit by a 4/4. UB and UW Control decks face similar problems as Solar Flare does.
Sure, this card isn't amazing against Tezzeret or Burning Vengeance. It's not perfect for every matchup, but it can provide tons of advantage through removal and beatings. It's not going to be a meta-defining card and it takes the proper deck to make this card good, but in the right deck it can work wonders.
You can find me on MTGO. My username is gereffi.
Completely agree w/ your card choices except I think Splinterfright is more of a x1-x3 card so that will lower the ceiling. Also Cagebreakers is probably also a x1-x3 of that is tutored many times by GSZ.
Biggest surprise, imo is the lack of love for Geist-Honored Monk... it just seems so good in a variety of mono-White or W/X decks right now... chump blockers, sword carriers, and better w/ more creatures (insane in multiples). Heck, there's even token support in Innistrad, lol!
I can think of Glint Hawk, the Idol, Ornithopter and Chandra's Phoenix. None of the former three can be killed with the un-flipped Daybreak once a Tempered Steel has been dropped, and Chandra's Phoenix comes back pretty easily, so all he really does is nullify one Phoenix at a time if he manages to survive burn.
ornithopter isn't legal in standard and you forgot vault skirge, birds of paradise, and spirit tokens (from moorland haunt and other cards).
you do know he has a back side right? i mean... that is the main draw of the card after all...
Also, what format are you playing this card in? Standard, Modern, Extended, Legacy, Vintage, Casual, EDH, Block Constructed, or what?
So far I've only truly played it in limited, but I've playtested it in modern to similar results. I've used it both ways. It's useful if your opponent is flooded and trying to discard lands and I use it for my big nonflashback spells. I have been using tutors as well, which makes it much better.
(I only play modern and standard (With some limited), so take my opinion as you will.)
Unless the game goes extremely long, you'll generally get about 1 card out of shuffling 6 spells back into your deck. It changes the spell probability from .6 to .65, if you had 40 cards left in your deck (which is being generous). This is a reasonably insignificant, when you consider that you'll be losing a card and tempo.
Maybe in Limited if you go from 12/20 to 18/26, it could be a bit significant. Even then though, it won't help against aggressive decks that want to beat you quickly.
I've used the card, but only as a way to make sure that Mirror-Mad Phantasm doesn't completely mill me out.
You can find me on MTGO. My username is gereffi.
The way I see it is every card has a fan. Is it perfect? No, that's silly. Is it fun? That's where it got me. I think it's fun and I like the odd looks when my limited deck has about five in it. (Yes, that's happened)
Yeah. I thought that too. I do wish it was a mod-spell.
Not sure, but Instigator Gang is definitely a card I've had my eye on. A potential 8/5 trampler with triple battle cry for 4 splashable mana just sounds like it needs to be exploited. Even when it's a human it can battle cry without risking itself, which also sounds pleasant
Evil Twin B/U Illusions.
Undead Alchemist Just good.
Stiched Drake bit off the board.
I refuse to accept that this card is bad.
Slow? Quite. Bad? Nope, look somewhere else.
I swear there's a three-way love affair between Kruin Outlaw, Instigator Gang and Daybreak Ranger; if they had creatures on the board when these three flip, it doesn't matter in the slightest. They need 3 or more huge fatties to withstand 27 damage / 20 damage and the removal of a less-than-4-toughness creature.
He's Werewolf Support. I play Daybreak Ranger in almost as much of a lord position as the Mayor and the Outlaw; your Werewolves need to do big damage quickly when they can. Daybreak sniping things out of the air or Nightfall punching things in the face helps that happen. All. The. Time.
My picks for sleeper cards at the moment are every single Werewolf. People underestimate how much Werewolves are going to force their plays; almost any combo/draw-go deck has lost to my wolves, because they need to drop a combo piece/play cards early or in their turn in order to prevent 20 damage on turn 4.
I love Werewolves because they force people to play real Magic. None of this useless Blue control ****. Play creatures in your own turn like a man.
Level 1 Judge
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpgjnU7C3Aw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe7kkZixasc
Kessig Wolf Run - If you ramp and you play creatures, any one of those creatures become a threat. This card with Primeval Titan could be seriously good.
Moorland Haunt - It's already seeing some play, and should continue to do so. Each body you have can later produce a 1/1 flier, for WU,T built into your manabase. Looks very strong, especially with Intangible Virtue and . . . . .
Parallel Lives - Which doubles tokens. I can see this card being amazing alongside Geist-Honored Monk, Elspeth Tirel, Geist of Saint Traft, Garruk Relentless . . . seems sort of unfair.
Ratchet Bomb - Not from Innistrad, but it could bounce back up. If tokens ever do matter, I'm sure this will increase. And it's already powerful against transform cards and potent versus aggro decks.
The first place deck was a G/R deck, that could perfectally support a Daybreak Ranger and, not surprisingly, it has no copies of it, not even in the sideboard.
I'm sorry, guys, there's just no place for this card. It's clunky and ugly and too tough to keep on the board to actually do anything.
Also, Kessig Wolf Run is going to be a tank in the decks that can support it.
I've always thought Daybreak was a bit of a hype machine. As much as I like Kibler, his stunt of hyping at card was just insulting. I'd say that the fact he only ran two in his own build at the last big event is proof it's not holding it's salt.
That's kind of silly.
Where would you ever find room for a DFC in a ramp deck?
How would it ever flip before you've reached Turn Titan (4/5)?
What good is it over Slagstorm against aggro?
It's not like flying.dec is a notable threat, either, so having it in the sideboard is kind of a wasted slot.
I don't know, why don't you ask the people who think Daybreak is a sleeper hit?
I worded that particular sentence wrong. It doesn't fit in the build and it doesn't fit in the meta. But, I was pointing out what people can do with those colors instead of putting in a sub-par card. Sorry, the deck doesn't really support it, your right, but that deck is what you do with those colors, not build something that can try to use a clunky rare.
You know, not that I think Daybreak is actually good, but it DOES hit the best deck at the most recent round of tourneys very, very hard, because it kills Inkmoth Nexus with its untransformed side.