[Lets Discuss] Tree of Redemption

  • #26
    Does Exchange Life Totals by-pass the rules of gaining life?
    Flames of the blood Hand
    Sulfuric Vortex
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  • #27
    The Disciple of Griselbrand is still the best thing I've seen in here, for use with the tree. It's a grand idea =3


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  • #28
    Quote from Zephynoir
    Give him a small pump, play Twisted image and beat face


    Attacking won't work due to Defender, but Fling? You bet. Wink Even better if you have 20 life and switch it beforehand so you get a 20+ Fling to the face. Grin
  • #29
    Quote from WacKy ZacKy
    Does Exchange Life Totals by-pass the rules of gaining life?
    Flames of the blood Hand
    Sulfuric Vortex

    To exchange your life total, you gain or lose the appropriate amount of life (118.5). If your life total is lower than the Tree's toughness, but you can't gain life (for example, because of Platinum Emperion or Stigma Lasher), the exchange will not occur; you will not gain life, and the toughness will not change (118.7). Inversely, if your life total is higher, but you can't lose life (for example, because of Platinum Emperion), the exchange will not occur (118.8). The lifegain can still be replaced via a replacement effect, such as Lich replacing it with drawing that many cards (nice triskaidectuple Archivist, bro, hope you brought a Lumithread Field) or Flames of the Blood Hand/Sulfuric Vortex replacing it with gaining zero life.
    Last edited by mutantman: 9/19/2011 3:00:41 PM
  • #30
    Rather than trying to "abuse" this card, which will require like a 4-card combo to be mediocre, let's just look at the facts. He's a huge blocker for 4. He can stall like a champ. Easily splashable. Casual bomb, otherwise just a neat card.
    Embrace reality. Deal with the facts, live with the truth.
  • #31
    Spellskite + x4 Plant + x4 Green Sun = not just RDW would have problems with that ;).
    Quote from findogul
    It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
  • #32
    2 cards. Phyrexian Unlife and this Tree. unless they can hit you twice for over 13 a turn. Obviously the creature dies to removal.

    saves you 1turn or more if they dont have immediate answers.
  • #33
    Uhm...actually, the tree would die, immediately, as its toughness would become 0~


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  • #34
    Doran just keeps getting better and better. Grin
  • #35
    It doesn't "add" 13 life. You can't activate it when your life is at "0".

    What happens when you activate it's ability and someone casts victim of night on it? I guess your life total just stays the same.

    Anyone else think this guy is a limited tank if activated? Drop him late game and make you opponents game even harder. Good times.

    At least we know why "13" is the magic number in red damage in this set, other than for the unlucky flavor factor.


    Yeah, it kind of does add 13 life. At any point you can switch your life with it's Toughness. Until you go down to 0, it's like you have 13 extra life to work with. You're down to one life? Now you are at 13, with one extra life stored away, but you can't use it in regular situations. You can argue that it's only 12 extra life, but there are enough cards that allow you to go to 0 and live to say 13.

    Quote from Xaios
    /cast Twisted Image GG.


    Nope, because it dies before it's ability can resolve. When an ability exchanges two permanents or values, both values have to still be exchangeable or it does nothing. For example, a Platinum Emperion would prevent this cards ability from exchanging, unless your life is equal to the trees (which still results in nothing).

    Quote from Innistrad FAQ »
    * If Tree of Redemption isn't on the battlefield when the ability resolves, the exchange can't happen and the ability will have no effect.


    Quote from Sigma
    Stupid question - if your life total is 5 and you activate the ability, does the Tree become 0/5?


    Yep, that's exactly how the exchange works.

    Quote from WacKy ZacKy
    Does Exchange Life Totals by-pass the rules of gaining life?
    Flames of the blood Hand
    Sulfuric Vortex


    Nope. The exchange causes you to gain/lose life.

    Quote from Innistrad FAQ »
    * When the ability resolves, Tree of Redemption's toughness will become your former life total and you will gain or lose an amount of life necessary so that your life total equals Tree of Redemption's former toughness. Other effects that interact with life gain or life loss will interact with this effect accordingly.


    Quote from iConcede
    Attacking won't work due to Defender, but Fling? You bet. Wink Even better if you have 20 life and switch it beforehand so you get a 20+ Fling to the face. Grin


    Not unless you increased it's Power.



    The best option is to increase the Toughness of it, because it's ability only effects it's base Toughness, then any P/T alterations are applied.

    Quote from Innistrad FAQ »
    * Any toughness-modifying effects, counters, Auras, or Equipment will apply after its toughness is set to your former life total. For example, say Tree of Redemption is enchanted with Spectral Flight (which makes it 2/15) and your life total is 7. After the exchange, Tree of Redemption would be a 2/9 creature (its toughness became 7, which was then modified by Spectral Flight) and your life total would be 15.


    This means that you would "gain" some life each time you exchanged, and can climb your life up from any number (other than 0, in most cases). For example, you are at one life and your Tree is at 1 toughness. If you cast Leyline of Vitality, you could then exchange your life and it's toughness to gain one life, but it's toughness would stay the same (2). Then, if you activate it again, you wouldn't gain any life, but Tree of Redemption would gain toughness (3), which would gain you life next time you activate it. In just two activations, you essentially went up from 2 "life" to 5 "life, and have created a decent blocker (0/3). If the effect increasing it's toughness is higher, this process would speed up considerably.
    Last edited by Alarid: 9/19/2011 4:16:50 PM
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  • #36
    So hey, here's something that a lot are neglecting to notice: He EXCHANGES life total with toughness. So if you activate him while at 5 life, you'll gain eight and he will be a 0/5 for the remainder of the game. He's useless until you're back under 5 life and trade again.

    This massively cuts down on the abuse factor, and is only really an issue with Slagwurm armor or something on him. Which I'm not even sure actually works, because I have a feeling that the actual ruling of this card will make sure you only trade with the card's actual toughness. Sort of like clones.
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  • #37
    Its a really good 1of in green based decks as a zenith target I'd say.
  • #38
    Quote from Sigismond0
    So hey, here's something that a lot are neglecting to notice: He EXCHANGES life total with toughness. So if you activate him while at 5 life, you'll gain eight and he will be a 0/5 for the remainder of the game. He's useless until you're back under 5 life and trade again.

    This massively cuts down on the abuse factor, and is only really an issue with Slagwurm armor or something on him. Which I'm not even sure actually works, because I have a feeling that the actual ruling of this card will make sure you only trade with the card's actual toughness. Sort of like clones.


    It works. When figuring out a creature's P/T, you first take there starting stats, then apply anything that sets them (the exchange), then apply any alterations (Slagwurm Armor). This would allow you to gain 6 "Life" with each exchange. Starting with 20 Life and Tree Equipped with the Armor at 19 Toughness, you would exchange and end with 19 Life and Tree with 26 Toughness, having gained 6 in the combined value of your Life and it's Toughness.
    "If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
    - To my youngest sister when she was 6.



    Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.




    Quote from Ninja Caterpie

    Last time it went large-small-large, it went "happy adventure land", "mana filled happy adventure land", "DEAD MANA ELDRAZI OVERRUN SAD DEFENSE LAND."
  • #39
    I'm certainly putting 1-2 in my Bant Pod sideboard for aggro matchups. I hear podding this guy out then copying him with image/metamorph is a pretty strong play
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  • #40
    If you respond with Turn to Frog, does the ability stop or would the player go to 1?
    Quote from Matt

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  • #41
    Quote from cosmic0ne
    If you respond with Turn to Frog, does the ability stop or would the player go to 1?


    The ability is still on the stack, but when it checks P/T it'll see the 1 instead of the 13. So they'll go to 1 life. Grin
  • #42
    Does this work with Sanguine Bond? If it does.....
    IIW:


    Multicolored millcards in something other than dimir.

  • #43
    Quote from Brofaux
    Does this work with Sanguine Bond? If it does.....


    Yes it does. Exchanging life totals still means your life total goes up (gains) or goes down (loses). It isn't damage, but it does count.

    --S
  • #44
    Quote from Sillia
    Yes it does. Exchanging life totals still means your life total goes up (gains) or goes down (loses). It isn't damage, but it does count.

    --S


    Are you sure? Because cards like Sorin Markov aren't strictly life-loss or life-gain. I think that exchanging life totals is just saying "You're life total becomes..." or something like that. I.e. Celestial Mantle.
    But do correct me if I'm wrong. I'd like to see if there's any official ruling anywhere that says this.
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  • #45
    near-death experience is a fun idea provided you can get it down to one toughness.
  • #46
    Quote from WalkingPlanes
    near-death experience is a fun idea provided you can get it down to one toughness.


    Diminish?
    (This card just got so good)
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  • #47
    Quote from jomafro
    Are you sure? Because cards like Sorin Markov aren't strictly life-loss or life-gain. I think that exchanging life totals is just saying "You're life total becomes..." or something like that. I.e. Celestial Mantle.
    But do correct me if I'm wrong. I'd like to see if there's any official ruling anywhere that says this.


    See here:

    118.5. If an effect sets a player's life total to a specific number, the player gains or loses the necessary amount of life to end up with the new total.
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  • #48
    Quote from viperesque
    See here:


    Aha! I stand corrected.
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  • #49
    Diminish?
    (This card just got so good)


    Let me get this straight - Diminish just got good because you can now combo a white enchantment, a green creature and a blue instant to win?
  • #50
    True. A three-color combo (especially with the 2WWW cost of NDE) is pretty hard to achieve.
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