If you're playing Snapcaster Mage, you're paying more for your spells. Period.
There has to be a reason that you're willing to tack on 1U to your spells, and a chump blocker is simply not a good enough one in most cases. Redundancy is the only justification.
I'm just trying to sober people up a little bit. He's really good at providing redundancy, but he has a significant mana cost and only conditionally provides card advantage.
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A voice for Timmy.
Commander R Ashling, the Pilgrim Mono Red Wildfire Control GBW Karador, Ghost Chieftain Abzan Dredge Rock WBR Tariel, Reckoner of Souls Mardu Aggro-Reanimator Midrange
If you're playing Snapcaster Mage, you're paying more for your spells. Period.
There has to be a reason that you're willing to tack on 1U to your spells, and a chump blocker is simply not a good enough one in most cases. Redundancy is the only justification.
I'm just trying to sober people up a little bit. He's really good at providing redundancy, but he has a significant mana cost and only conditionally provides card advantage.
"conditionally provides card advantage." - I love this...basically any card worthwhile does this to a certain degree, otherwise we would be playing snap and you as the player should not create the advantage or work to potential advantage.
If you're playing Snapcaster Mage, you're paying more for your spells. Period.
There has to be a reason that you're willing to tack on 1U to your spells, and a chump blocker is simply not a good enough one in most cases. Redundancy is the only justification.
I'm just trying to sober people up a little bit. He's really good at providing redundancy, but he has a significant mana cost and only conditionally provides card advantage.
The only justification? It's like saying having a wild card is bad.
I'm just trying to dispel the common opinion that it's a guaranteed 2-for-1.
Of course you should try to 2-for-1 with it. That's good deck building and good play. The opportunity will sometimes present itself, and sometimes it won't.
I just argue that SCM doesn't go in a deck because "duh, 241s are good, lol". Paying 1U more is significant, so SCM should only be played when he provides necessary redundancy.
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Commander R Ashling, the Pilgrim Mono Red Wildfire Control GBW Karador, Ghost Chieftain Abzan Dredge Rock WBR Tariel, Reckoner of Souls Mardu Aggro-Reanimator Midrange
If we are talking about conditional we should just point at Tarmogoyf and laugh...(not saying it is nearly as good as a goyf) it just proving a point that conditional is very relative...and insignificant in the manner by which it is being addressed.
He is good because he recurs your spell from the graveyard for only 1U. You know how much that used to cost? 4U. It was called scrivenger.
The only disadvantage to him vs. Scrivenger is that you have to cast the spell immediately or you don't get it. That's not a disadvantage that's worth -3 at most it's worth -1. Plus he has flash, enabling him to surprise block your opponent's X/2, and get to use a spell again during combat that could swing a crucial combat in an advantageous direction. In his hands, him and a lowly 1/1 can use a giant growth to destroy 2 of your opponent's X/4's out of nowhere for a mere 1UGG. Giant growth is, by all accounts, a crappy card. Imagine what he could do if paired with good cards. The fact that he requires you to exile the card in your graveyard is not relevant because the graveyard is not a zone where most of your instants or sorceries do anything. They have already done their thing, but he lets you use them again.
But maybe that doesn't impress you. Maybe you don't think being able to use your favorite sorcery all over again is that big a deal. Let me refer you back to it's mana cost. It's common knowledge that even an unimpressive effect can break the game wide open if it's cheap enough. You know Jace's Ingenuity? It's not that exciting now, but when they first printed that card it was, and still is, easily in the top 3 of the best cards in the game ever. Back then it was called ancestral recall. Thing is, Snapcaster Mage is cheaper then he has any right to be. Because he can flash into play on the middle turns (when you have between 4 and 5 mana) and reuse a crucial effect for you is a big deal. What happens when you cast blighting on turn 3 and then again on turn 5? Well, your opponent probably isn't going to win that game. That's why bloodbraid elf was so good. But he's not random like bloodbraide elf, he always gets you exactly what you want. Cards like Giant Growth or Blightning, or lightning helix or most of the instants and sorceries that they've printed in the last 10 years are the tip of a very large iceberg. What happens in vintage when you get to return ancestral recall or time walk? What happens in EDH when you get to reuse tooth and nail or rite of replication? What happens in legacy when you get to reuse dark ritual or sinkhole or hymn to tourach? Or limited when you reuse moment of heroism or spidery grasp or smite the monstrous or victim of night?
His criminal undercosting makes him useful at every level of play in every format. His mana cost lets him re-do things way too soon after cast them, possibly in the same turn, and create scenarios where a relatively even or advantageous game state for your opponent turns into a scoop phase. And the larger the card pool, the deeper the rabbit hole goes.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause!
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You aren't paying more, though, because presumably you've already cast the spell once for its printed mana cost, which is why its now in the graveyard. I know this won't always be the case (discard, mill). So when you do play SCM, you are paying 1U for the chance to cast spell again. Seems like good deal to me!
I'm just trying to dispel the common opinion that it's a guaranteed 2-for-1.
Of course you should try to 2-for-1 with it. That's good deck building and good play. The opportunity will sometimes present itself, and sometimes it won't.
I just argue that SCM doesn't go in a deck because "duh, 241s are good, lol". Paying 1U more is significant, so SCM should only be played when he provides necessary redundancy.
Both the snapcaster and dismember have a chance to be countered
You're absolutely right! This is EXACTLY why I do not put spells in my decks. I only play lands, fetch lands, and man lands, thereby neutering any opponent who relies on counterspells.
If you're playing Snapcaster Mage, you're paying more for your spells. Period.
There has to be a reason that you're willing to tack on 1U to your spells, and a chump blocker is simply not a good enough one in most cases. Redundancy is the only justification.
I'm just trying to sober people up a little bit. He's really good at providing redundancy, but he has a significant mana cost and only conditionally provides card advantage.
There is a reason to tack 1U onto your spells. Check out the good cards with Flashback in ISD, their Flashback costs are all relatively high. Forbidden Alchemy for example costs four mana more (including a different color) than its initial cost.
Snapcaster Mage gives you a discounted Flashback cost for every spell you've cast that game AND a 2/1 Flash body. That's like paying one mana for a 2/1 and one mana for a Flashback ability... and that's not even including the fact that it's on one card (something that is worth at least 1/2 of one mana, usually 1).
And I know what's your saying about redundancy and SCM's conditional worth but control decks are known for playing spells that are good at any point in the game like cantrips, counterspells and removal. This fits right in.
Spekter, you have a point that it should be used where redundancy is needed but the truth of the matter is that people will play Snapcaster Mage for "value" most of the time. It really is the Spike-ist free value card we've seen in ISD in my humble opinion... the "rogue" brewers will use this card too but it won't be as obvious and it won't happen right away.
If you're playing Snapcaster Mage, you're paying more for your spells. Period.
There has to be a reason that you're willing to tack on 1U to your spells, and a chump blocker is simply not a good enough one in most cases. Redundancy is the only justification.
I'm just trying to sober people up a little bit. He's really good at providing redundancy, but he has a significant mana cost and only conditionally provides card advantage.
How are you paying more for your spells? Your spells don't cost any extra.
Without Snapcaster Mage, you aren't even casting those spells.
He's the reason you can even have the chance to play the spell AGAIN.
It's not even "redundancy" It's more like "variety". You get to pick any spell in your graveyard. It's more along the lines of "1U Instant, play any spell in your graveyard for it's mana cost, then put a 2/1 token into play"
That's an insane ability to have.
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Standard:
Bident Layers B Devotion RG Devotion UW Control Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod Legacy: DeathBlade RUG Delver BUG Control
It's not bad. You get double uses out of your cheap spells in addition to a decent combat trick and a semi-powerful attacker. Now whether Mage is $25 good is another question....
I think everyone here forgets that he also provides blue-splashing decks with instants and/or sorceries resilience against discard. Imagine this soon-to-be Modern-legal scenario:
UW Aggro-Control - Turn 3
*Draws Snapcaster Mage, plays a land, casts Snapcaster Mage targeting Path to Exile, casts Path to Exile targeting Kitchen Finks*
Melira Combo: "What the?!?"
UW Aggro-Control: "Hey, I topdecked him."
This resilience to targeted (and random) discard is crucial against combo decks, especially creature-based ones, where the control deck is likely to have more creature removal spells.
i hesitate to speculate so heavily on cards. at the moment i feel he is considerably over-valued, i see absolutely nothing gamebreaking this guy can do that would make him far and away the best card in innistrad so far. will he be good? probably, but he may not be any good, when all of innistrad is spoiled i will look at potential interactions and then decide, but until then, a few cute tricks letting you draw an extra card don't seem enough. right now, the most powerful interaction i see is with Mana Leak, but leak is the only good counter in standard so he'll lack a lot of support.
please keep in mind that some peoples perspective do not soley come from the standard background. snapcaster is quite good outside that format as well...maybe even better.
right now, the most powerful interaction i see is with Mana Leak, but leak is the only good counter in standard so he'll lack a lot of support.
I agree that Mana Leak seems best, but you can't underestimate the power of Mental Misstep with some of the one-drops Innistrad is giving us.
Turn 1, Island, go.
Turn 1, Mountain, 1-drop Werewolf
response, Mental Misstep
--
Turn 2, Island, go
Turn 2, Mountain, 1-drop Werewolf
response, Snapcaster Mage, flashback Mental Misstep for 2 life.
--
Now that is not the best scenario possible for sure. You're playing against a red deck so the self-shock might come back to bite you. But it's better than facing some of the one-drops that red can throw at you next season. It shows the sheer power of the card. You've countered two of their threats and have a 2/1 hanging around as early as turn two.
Don't get caught up in the added cost. 1Uis pretty much nothing when you consider the flexibility and redundancy this card adds to any deck with more than a handful of targets. This is blue's Confidant, period.
Anyone who needs an explanation why snapcaster mage is a good card should really not be playing magic.
I tell you now: This is the best blue 2cmc creature ever printed, and nothing like this card will ever see print again.
This card is simply stupid.
You can quote me all you want if I am proven wrong.
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The Internet was a revelation to me, I never imagined there are so many idiots on this planet.
I'm just trying to dispel the common opinion that it's a guaranteed 2-for-1.
Of course you should try to 2-for-1 with it. That's good deck building and good play. The opportunity will sometimes present itself, and sometimes it won't.
I just argue that SCM doesn't go in a deck because "duh, 241s are good, lol". Paying 1U more is significant, so SCM should only be played when he provides necessary redundancy.
So now you've changed your tune from "Snapcaster isn't that great" to "Snapcaster is great in some decks but not all" which is said about basically any card.
Can I have all of your copies? I'll give you a mailing address. It's incredibly powerful. 1U isn't that significant if I'm getting value back on spells I've already played. You pay a versatility cost. I pay a mana premium to get maximum versatility and get a flash 2/1, which is a card already. The fact that any spell in the bin can now be used any time I need is so valuable that I can't believe it needs to be explained to anyone who's played magic for more than a day. It should be played in most any deck blue based deck with cheap, effective spells.
Just because I'm playing devil's advocate doesn't mean I don't want my own set of the card. It's strong, it's fun, and I know I'll play it too.
Taking a moderate stance about this card apparently gets everyone from miles around to come tell me I'm wrong. Silly blue mages.
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Commander R Ashling, the Pilgrim Mono Red Wildfire Control GBW Karador, Ghost Chieftain Abzan Dredge Rock WBR Tariel, Reckoner of Souls Mardu Aggro-Reanimator Midrange
I'm just trying to dispel the common opinion that it's a guaranteed 2-for-1.
Of course you should try to 2-for-1 with it. That's good deck building and good play. The opportunity will sometimes present itself, and sometimes it won't.
I just argue that SCM doesn't go in a deck because "duh, 241s are good, lol". Paying 1U more is significant, so SCM should only be played when he provides necessary redundancy.
Let's think about this for a moment in terms of Flashback. You play Think Twice for 1U. You can then flash it back for 1 extra mana. If you were to flash it back with Snapcaster, you pay an extra 1U, but also get a 2/1 body at instant speed.
And Think Twice is probably the worst case scenario. Think about with most of the other Flashback cards that cost 2x as much or more. This reduces that Flashback cost by half or more, plus providing the body.
My point of all this is that in terms of Flashback, paying an extra 1U is a bargain even without the 2/1 body at instant speed. Add in that you can give this to any card, even those without flashback, and he becomes a monster.
8 Mana Leaks.
Recast Timely Reinforcement? Disfigure and Timely Reinforcements in the same deck? OMG! It offsets the life loss. It PUNISHES AGGRO. On a side note, it makes casting TR just that much harder for the tokens, with snapcaster being on the battle feild.
Let's talk about how good U/R is looking right now. And if the mana base allows it....U/R/W sooner of later(phyrexian mana). lololol. Brimstone Valley? 5 DMG for 3..... and you have 8 in your deck? Flashing snapcaster to block and use that is ridiculous.
This may be a little too Johny of me, but infernal plunge is pretty insane, not with SCM, but possibly in this deck? Alongside Doomed Traveler you can sac him all day long if you have two of these and just Inferno Titan LIKE A BOSS. Or even ramp into Consecrated Sphinx?
LIKE A BOSS. Okay....for realz though. Needing all that is a little on the Christmas land side. Probably not that good.
.....derp....I don't know. Maybe TR and Kuldotha Rebirth will combine with Intangeble Virtue in a token deck ....and somehow snapcaster will make it in there just to recur key spells. Lulz.
Looking at only standard, I think his value is overstated. He doesn't really fit into that many decks in standard. Looking at lists people are coming up with, all the cards he is copying don't gain too much value by being copied. I don't think he's actually very powerful as "mana leak man" or "day of judgment man" (summoner's bane and a 6-mana day of judgment don't seem that good). He feels good solely because of his versatility.
I feel like the card will see lots of play, but he wont be an auto-include. He'll certainly be a 4-of in decks with lots of instants and few finishers, like many UB control lists. It's annoying that there isn't much good hand disruption for the deck. I feel like many decks will opt for other cards, though.
Now, consider that with even pseudo-competent deckbuilding, Snapcaster can impersonate ANY of those creatures, and frequently is more powerful, more efficient, and more "flash-y" than any one of them would have been. Basically, anything that any decent blue creature can do? Snapcaster Mage can also do it, often better. But that's not all! Snapcaster Mage gives spells flashback, which allows it do things no blue creature (or indeed, any creature ever) has done in the history of the game.
Don't get me wrong, this card isn't always a "2-for-1", requires a bit of set-up, and isn't quite an auto-include in a deck boastings islands (although he's close), meaning he certainly isn't a must-play splash for all decks in the format (like 'goyf and Mind Sculptor were). I appreciate that some people are a bit more moderate as hype has certainly been wrong before (see: Sarkhan Vol for an extreme, but even Lotus Cobra and Koth and Beast Within have turned out to be "just good" and not utterly format dominating). But Snapcaster Mage is absolutely worth every ounce of hype he's being given, and if anything is substantially STRONGER than most people see him as being on paper, and only gets stronger as the card pool available to him grows (ie he is significantly stronger in older formats, and will gain more and more power as the standard format around him grows). He may not warp standard, earn a ban, or command a $50 price tag (we'll see), but he is the best card thus revealed in Innistrad.
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yes i understand the whole it allows you to give a sorcery, or instant flashback in your graveyard. but i just see it as a wasted creature being playing in my opinion on why i dont like it.
Say i flash Snapcaster Mage in targeting my dismember. SO i've already payed 1U in order just go give the card flashback which will make the minimum CmC for the spell three. Both the snapcaster and dismember have a chance to be countered which is why i see it as a waste i flash it in waste it and they counter the spell i targeted. I don't know if I'm just ignorant to ruling or the true power of this card but i'd love for someone to please explain why its so good.
every spell can get countered. whats your point. and snapcaster has flash, so you can make them tap out on the end of their turn. and if they counter the spell your flashbacking, then great. you just 2-for-1'ed them.
unless your playing 36creatures.dec or your keeping 6 land hands or something, your always going to get value out of this guy. he rewards you just for playing spells like you normally would, is incredibly versatile, and gets better as the game goes on. no other card can transform between instant speed shriekmaw, mystic snake, ravenous rats++, sea gate oracle, cloudgoat ranger+, desolation giant etc etc
Looking at only standard, I think his value is overstated. He doesn't really fit into that many decks in standard. Looking at lists people are coming up with, all the cards he is copying don't gain too much value by being copied. I don't think he's actually very powerful as "mana leak man" or "day of judgment man" (summoner's bane and a 6-mana day of judgment don't seem that good). He feels good solely because of his versatility.
I feel like the card will see lots of play, but he wont be an auto-include. He'll certainly be a 4-of in decks with lots of instants and few finishers, like many UB control lists. It's annoying that there isn't much good hand disruption for the deck. I feel like many decks will opt for other cards, though.
Of course he's going to be good in control, he screams it. The argument of not fitting into decks is also pretty flat, since pyromancer, valakut, and twin decks are rotating. Those two deck would of ran him hands down. I guarantee whatever combo deck floats to the surface this block will play snapcaster mage as well. Besides the combo all that's really left is TS, RDW, UB/UW control, and pod. 2 out of the 5 decks we know of now will definitely fit it into builds. This is for certain and we don't even know what other archetypes are going to be formed.
Versatility is in fact what gives him his advantage. First off, 1U for a 2/1 flash is fair, by itself. Giving an instant or sorcery flashback in your graveyard is amazing. For two reasons, one its CA. No matter what you target, if you played a single spell its available CA. This makes control a lot more viable and much easier to have answers, instead of playing tap out tempo control like the current caw-blade. Second is the fact that he makes the flashback cost the same as the CC on the card. That's crazy good. When flashback cards were printed, to make them not hands down better than anything they make it slightly worse than a similar card and then usually make the flashback cost way more. This is because if they made the flashback cost the same as the original cost, like a card firebolt which saw competitive play anyway, it would of been a 4 of in any deck that touched red. It's the same reason. You're not paying more for the spell, you're paying the same amount and getting a 2/1 body. So not only are you getting flashback effect on a card deemed fair enough to not carry the mechanic, you're giving it the mechanic (which is a bonus) at strictly much less than a traditional flashback ability would cost (also a bonus). Dark confidant is amazing because hes a pseudo phyrexian arena on a 2/1 for 2 body and generates CA at very efficient cost. Granted I'm not saying this card is on bob's power level, but it is something to remember that 2 drops that generate card advantage dominate formats.
Now, if you're deck doesn't run instants/sorcery then you're right. You shouldn't be playing him. However if you run around 8, then this guy will be a champ hands down.
There has to be a reason that you're willing to tack on 1U to your spells, and a chump blocker is simply not a good enough one in most cases. Redundancy is the only justification.
I'm just trying to sober people up a little bit. He's really good at providing redundancy, but he has a significant mana cost and only conditionally provides card advantage.
Commander
R Ashling, the Pilgrim Mono Red Wildfire Control
GBW Karador, Ghost Chieftain Abzan Dredge Rock
WBR Tariel, Reckoner of Souls Mardu Aggro-Reanimator Midrange
"conditionally provides card advantage." - I love this...basically any card worthwhile does this to a certain degree, otherwise we would be playing snap and you as the player should not create the advantage or work to potential advantage.
The only justification? It's like saying having a wild card is bad.
Of course you should try to 2-for-1 with it. That's good deck building and good play. The opportunity will sometimes present itself, and sometimes it won't.
I just argue that SCM doesn't go in a deck because "duh, 241s are good, lol". Paying 1U more is significant, so SCM should only be played when he provides necessary redundancy.
Commander
R Ashling, the Pilgrim Mono Red Wildfire Control
GBW Karador, Ghost Chieftain Abzan Dredge Rock
WBR Tariel, Reckoner of Souls Mardu Aggro-Reanimator Midrange
The only disadvantage to him vs. Scrivenger is that you have to cast the spell immediately or you don't get it. That's not a disadvantage that's worth -3 at most it's worth -1. Plus he has flash, enabling him to surprise block your opponent's X/2, and get to use a spell again during combat that could swing a crucial combat in an advantageous direction. In his hands, him and a lowly 1/1 can use a giant growth to destroy 2 of your opponent's X/4's out of nowhere for a mere 1UGG. Giant growth is, by all accounts, a crappy card. Imagine what he could do if paired with good cards. The fact that he requires you to exile the card in your graveyard is not relevant because the graveyard is not a zone where most of your instants or sorceries do anything. They have already done their thing, but he lets you use them again.
But maybe that doesn't impress you. Maybe you don't think being able to use your favorite sorcery all over again is that big a deal. Let me refer you back to it's mana cost. It's common knowledge that even an unimpressive effect can break the game wide open if it's cheap enough. You know Jace's Ingenuity? It's not that exciting now, but when they first printed that card it was, and still is, easily in the top 3 of the best cards in the game ever. Back then it was called ancestral recall. Thing is, Snapcaster Mage is cheaper then he has any right to be. Because he can flash into play on the middle turns (when you have between 4 and 5 mana) and reuse a crucial effect for you is a big deal. What happens when you cast blighting on turn 3 and then again on turn 5? Well, your opponent probably isn't going to win that game. That's why bloodbraid elf was so good. But he's not random like bloodbraide elf, he always gets you exactly what you want. Cards like Giant Growth or Blightning, or lightning helix or most of the instants and sorceries that they've printed in the last 10 years are the tip of a very large iceberg. What happens in vintage when you get to return ancestral recall or time walk? What happens in EDH when you get to reuse tooth and nail or rite of replication? What happens in legacy when you get to reuse dark ritual or sinkhole or hymn to tourach? Or limited when you reuse moment of heroism or spidery grasp or smite the monstrous or victim of night?
His criminal undercosting makes him useful at every level of play in every format. His mana cost lets him re-do things way too soon after cast them, possibly in the same turn, and create scenarios where a relatively even or advantageous game state for your opponent turns into a scoop phase. And the larger the card pool, the deeper the rabbit hole goes.
Famliy Guy Emperor Says,
"Something, something something, DARK SIDE!
Something, something, something COMPLETE!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHiUitciuJ8
:symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw:
SPIKE GAYMER: not just a beatdown, a beatdown sung to the tune of "I Feel Pretty"!
You're absolutely right! This is EXACTLY why I do not put spells in my decks. I only play lands, fetch lands, and man lands, thereby neutering any opponent who relies on counterspells.
There is a reason to tack 1U onto your spells. Check out the good cards with Flashback in ISD, their Flashback costs are all relatively high. Forbidden Alchemy for example costs four mana more (including a different color) than its initial cost.
Snapcaster Mage gives you a discounted Flashback cost for every spell you've cast that game AND a 2/1 Flash body. That's like paying one mana for a 2/1 and one mana for a Flashback ability... and that's not even including the fact that it's on one card (something that is worth at least 1/2 of one mana, usually 1).
And I know what's your saying about redundancy and SCM's conditional worth but control decks are known for playing spells that are good at any point in the game like cantrips, counterspells and removal. This fits right in.
Spekter, you have a point that it should be used where redundancy is needed but the truth of the matter is that people will play Snapcaster Mage for "value" most of the time. It really is the Spike-ist free value card we've seen in ISD in my humble opinion... the "rogue" brewers will use this card too but it won't be as obvious and it won't happen right away.
How are you paying more for your spells? Your spells don't cost any extra.
Without Snapcaster Mage, you aren't even casting those spells.
He's the reason you can even have the chance to play the spell AGAIN.
It's not even "redundancy" It's more like "variety". You get to pick any spell in your graveyard. It's more along the lines of "1U Instant, play any spell in your graveyard for it's mana cost, then put a 2/1 token into play"
That's an insane ability to have.
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control
Melira Combo - Turn 1
*Plays a land, casts Inquisition of Kozilek*
Melira Combo: "Hmmm...land, land, land, Path to Exile, Vendilion Clique, Cryptic Command, Preordain...I know what I'm picking."
*UW Aggro-Control discards Path to Exile*
UW Aggro-Control - Turn 1
*Draws a land, plays a land*
Melira Combo - Turn 2
*Draws Kitchen Finks, plays a land, plays Melira, Sylvok Outcast*
UW Aggro-Control - Turn 2
*Draws Spell Snare, plays a land, plays Preordain, scries through a land and Elspeth, Knight-Errant and draws another land*
Melira Combo - Turn 3
*Draws Thoughtseize, plays Kitchen Finks, gains 2 life, attacks with Melira*
UW Aggro-Control - Turn 3
*Draws Snapcaster Mage, plays a land, casts Snapcaster Mage targeting Path to Exile, casts Path to Exile targeting Kitchen Finks*
Melira Combo: "What the?!?"
UW Aggro-Control: "Hey, I topdecked him."
This resilience to targeted (and random) discard is crucial against combo decks, especially creature-based ones, where the control deck is likely to have more creature removal spells.
please keep in mind that some peoples perspective do not soley come from the standard background. snapcaster is quite good outside that format as well...maybe even better.
I agree that Mana Leak seems best, but you can't underestimate the power of Mental Misstep with some of the one-drops Innistrad is giving us.
Turn 1, Island, go.
Turn 1, Mountain, 1-drop Werewolf
response, Mental Misstep
--
Turn 2, Island, go
Turn 2, Mountain, 1-drop Werewolf
response, Snapcaster Mage, flashback Mental Misstep for 2 life.
--
Now that is not the best scenario possible for sure. You're playing against a red deck so the self-shock might come back to bite you. But it's better than facing some of the one-drops that red can throw at you next season. It shows the sheer power of the card. You've countered two of their threats and have a 2/1 hanging around as early as turn two.
I tell you now: This is the best blue 2cmc creature ever printed, and nothing like this card will ever see print again.
This card is simply stupid.
You can quote me all you want if I am proven wrong.
Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found.
The whip is kept for special occasions
So now you've changed your tune from "Snapcaster isn't that great" to "Snapcaster is great in some decks but not all" which is said about basically any card.
Can I have all of your copies? I'll give you a mailing address. It's incredibly powerful. 1U isn't that significant if I'm getting value back on spells I've already played. You pay a versatility cost. I pay a mana premium to get maximum versatility and get a flash 2/1, which is a card already. The fact that any spell in the bin can now be used any time I need is so valuable that I can't believe it needs to be explained to anyone who's played magic for more than a day. It should be played in most any deck blue based deck with cheap, effective spells.
Taking a moderate stance about this card apparently gets everyone from miles around to come tell me I'm wrong. Silly blue mages.
Commander
R Ashling, the Pilgrim Mono Red Wildfire Control
GBW Karador, Ghost Chieftain Abzan Dredge Rock
WBR Tariel, Reckoner of Souls Mardu Aggro-Reanimator Midrange
Let's think about this for a moment in terms of Flashback. You play Think Twice for 1U. You can then flash it back for 1 extra mana. If you were to flash it back with Snapcaster, you pay an extra 1U, but also get a 2/1 body at instant speed.
And Think Twice is probably the worst case scenario. Think about with most of the other Flashback cards that cost 2x as much or more. This reduces that Flashback cost by half or more, plus providing the body.
My point of all this is that in terms of Flashback, paying an extra 1U is a bargain even without the 2/1 body at instant speed. Add in that you can give this to any card, even those without flashback, and he becomes a monster.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
8 Mana Leaks.
Recast Timely Reinforcement? Disfigure and Timely Reinforcements in the same deck? OMG! It offsets the life loss. It PUNISHES AGGRO. On a side note, it makes casting TR just that much harder for the tokens, with snapcaster being on the battle feild.
Let's talk about how good U/R is looking right now. And if the mana base allows it....U/R/W sooner of later(phyrexian mana). lololol. Brimstone Valley? 5 DMG for 3..... and you have 8 in your deck? Flashing snapcaster to block and use that is ridiculous.
This may be a little too Johny of me, but infernal plunge is pretty insane, not with SCM, but possibly in this deck? Alongside Doomed Traveler you can sac him all day long if you have two of these and just Inferno Titan LIKE A BOSS. Or even ramp into Consecrated Sphinx?
LIKE A BOSS. Okay....for realz though. Needing all that is a little on the Christmas land side. Probably not that good.
I'm going to make a decklist with him now.
3 Timely Reinforcements
4 Mana Leak
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Burning Vengeance
4 Incinerate
3 Disfigure
.....derp....I don't know. Maybe TR and Kuldotha Rebirth will combine with Intangeble Virtue in a token deck ....and somehow snapcaster will make it in there just to recur key spells. Lulz.
I feel like the card will see lots of play, but he wont be an auto-include. He'll certainly be a 4-of in decks with lots of instants and few finishers, like many UB control lists. It's annoying that there isn't much good hand disruption for the deck. I feel like many decks will opt for other cards, though.
- Throughout Magic's history we've gotten 2-power or less blue dudes with an EtB trigger that have been competitive. Man-o-war. Mystic Snake. Sea Gate Oracle, Court Hussar, Raven Familiar, Riftwing Cloudskate, Mulldrifter, Pestermite. Some of these guys might not be playable if they were printed now in modern standard due to power creep, but they were played back in their era.
Now, consider that with even pseudo-competent deckbuilding, Snapcaster can impersonate ANY of those creatures, and frequently is more powerful, more efficient, and more "flash-y" than any one of them would have been. Basically, anything that any decent blue creature can do? Snapcaster Mage can also do it, often better. But that's not all! Snapcaster Mage gives spells flashback, which allows it do things no blue creature (or indeed, any creature ever) has done in the history of the game.
Don't get me wrong, this card isn't always a "2-for-1", requires a bit of set-up, and isn't quite an auto-include in a deck boastings islands (although he's close), meaning he certainly isn't a must-play splash for all decks in the format (like 'goyf and Mind Sculptor were). I appreciate that some people are a bit more moderate as hype has certainly been wrong before (see: Sarkhan Vol for an extreme, but even Lotus Cobra and Koth and Beast Within have turned out to be "just good" and not utterly format dominating). But Snapcaster Mage is absolutely worth every ounce of hype he's being given, and if anything is substantially STRONGER than most people see him as being on paper, and only gets stronger as the card pool available to him grows (ie he is significantly stronger in older formats, and will gain more and more power as the standard format around him grows). He may not warp standard, earn a ban, or command a $50 price tag (we'll see), but he is the best card thus revealed in Innistrad.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
every spell can get countered. whats your point. and snapcaster has flash, so you can make them tap out on the end of their turn. and if they counter the spell your flashbacking, then great. you just 2-for-1'ed them.
unless your playing 36creatures.dec or your keeping 6 land hands or something, your always going to get value out of this guy. he rewards you just for playing spells like you normally would, is incredibly versatile, and gets better as the game goes on. no other card can transform between instant speed shriekmaw, mystic snake, ravenous rats++, sea gate oracle, cloudgoat ranger+, desolation giant etc etc
Of course he's going to be good in control, he screams it. The argument of not fitting into decks is also pretty flat, since pyromancer, valakut, and twin decks are rotating. Those two deck would of ran him hands down. I guarantee whatever combo deck floats to the surface this block will play snapcaster mage as well. Besides the combo all that's really left is TS, RDW, UB/UW control, and pod. 2 out of the 5 decks we know of now will definitely fit it into builds. This is for certain and we don't even know what other archetypes are going to be formed.
Versatility is in fact what gives him his advantage. First off, 1U for a 2/1 flash is fair, by itself. Giving an instant or sorcery flashback in your graveyard is amazing. For two reasons, one its CA. No matter what you target, if you played a single spell its available CA. This makes control a lot more viable and much easier to have answers, instead of playing tap out tempo control like the current caw-blade. Second is the fact that he makes the flashback cost the same as the CC on the card. That's crazy good. When flashback cards were printed, to make them not hands down better than anything they make it slightly worse than a similar card and then usually make the flashback cost way more. This is because if they made the flashback cost the same as the original cost, like a card firebolt which saw competitive play anyway, it would of been a 4 of in any deck that touched red. It's the same reason. You're not paying more for the spell, you're paying the same amount and getting a 2/1 body. So not only are you getting flashback effect on a card deemed fair enough to not carry the mechanic, you're giving it the mechanic (which is a bonus) at strictly much less than a traditional flashback ability would cost (also a bonus). Dark confidant is amazing because hes a pseudo phyrexian arena on a 2/1 for 2 body and generates CA at very efficient cost. Granted I'm not saying this card is on bob's power level, but it is something to remember that 2 drops that generate card advantage dominate formats.
Now, if you're deck doesn't run instants/sorcery then you're right. You shouldn't be playing him. However if you run around 8, then this guy will be a champ hands down.
UWR UWR Mid-Range
GBW Junk
Legacy
RBG Punishing Jund
Vintage
0 Ichorid
X MUD