Hello. New poster here and well I just love playing Rock decks. Seeing a Deathcloud in modern getting 5-0 made me really excited. Something about controlling every aspect of your opponents side of the field (lands, hand, and creatures) has always been a craze for me.
Was wondering if some of you can give some input on what you think should be made or just your general opinion on the deck I have listed below. One thing I have had problems with is getting hands that consist of lands and mana ramp or 1-2 lands and no ramp. Would like some preordains but well I'm kinda iffy on the 3 colors (but I do get Phantasmal Image)
Y'know, Garruk Relentless and Smallpox together isn't a shabby idea. There was a Liliana/Smallpox thread around here recently I was working with, and it didn't quite pan out as I intended - I basically made up an unfinished version of Solar Flare without realizing what I was working on (Didn't play much during Ravnica, so the archetype was foreign to me)
Anywho, there's no sense in wasting all that time and energy especially when another idea presents itself.
G/B will need to be as swift and efficient as possible. With Pox and Liliana, the 3/3 Beast token shouldn't be a big deal. We might want to run Glissa, the Traitor and some Ratchet Bombs for g/y shenanigans. Blue has all the cool graveyard effects in this set, and most of the good flashback cards. But I think this can make due.
Really like you list phoenix and ya pox and garruk/liliana are good together. Basically what I think you need (and i got this from my friend who plays magic a lot too) is a token producing engine and I think new new garruk (lol) fits that role perfectly.
He costs 2 less green mana and 1 less mana overall for 4 mana. Much easier to play around with than double black for Smallpox (and liliana) and triple green for Garruk, Primal Hunter.
There are some things that I would like to say about your list though. For starters, and this is just probably bad magic skills on my part but, doesn't your list seem kinda risky? It might be just the way I play (still have to proxy and give it a shot mind you) but it almost reminds of an all in red type of strategy. I basically see it as ramp up discard stuff along the way, drop liliana then garruk or thrun and try and win.
The reason this concerns me is because I'm wondering how do we get back anything (outside of ratchet with glissa in play of course) that hits our gy if we might need it. I would like to add, but it doesn't seem like there is room, is mabye Entomber Exarch. He can be a discard or return a creature and has a 2/2 body that can synergy with Garruk. Mabye you can give me some info on why you didn't add some gy return or how you see yourself piloting this deck.
Also, you removed Despise. I was a little curios as to why your not playing it because doesn't it add to the goal of the deck (remove creatures and hand disruption in 1 card?) which is, in my opinion (and I might be off) to be in complete control of your opponents side of the field. Almost like a "prison" type of control deck (Stasis Lock for a rough example).
On the plus though, it seems you took out a lot from my version which I think was just making it clunky and I really like that. I think I just wanted to really play Sword of Feast and Famine in this deck lol. But I think it just seemed like over kill (still though for Rock to basically get a time warp? siiiiick :tongue:)
Going to print and sleeve it though to try it out and see if I am mistaken in my arguments. Thanks for replying though and keeping this thread alive lol. Gotta make Rock a thing to be feared
I didn't put in Despise because I ran out of room.
On second thought, I think Perilous Myr would be a better option than Ratchet Bomb. He does 2 if you sac him and still comes back with Glissa. R Bomb kills tokens and flipped Garruk, so probably not as good of an inclusion as my first build that didn't use Garruk. Perilous also protects lil' lily if she gets attacked early.
Onto why other cards aren't included from your build:
Entomber Exarch - Nah. He's 4 mana. You've got that slot covered with Thrun and Garruk, which are win cons. Exarch is a 2/2 - shockable and not a win con. His utility is nice, but not great in this build IMO. Mulch gives you the CA to discard to Lily and Pox.
Distress - a bit like despise, I ran outta room. However the build already has several 2 drops - Smallpox, Viridian, Mulch, Perilous....
Smallpox builds - This deck wants to empty it's hand extremely quick to deal with the two hold overs in the standard meta: Tempered Steel, which looses ornithopter, but still has Memnite and Signal Pest. The second hold over is Birthing Pod. If you don't get board control established or have the fight in your favor by turn 3-4, you won't win against these two. Pox is important to get out turns 1-3, which is why I didn't include anything over 4 mana in my build except for the singleton Grave Titan, which is a win con plan c. That dropped Acidic Slime. Solemn is a great card, and maybe great with pox, but he's at that clogged 4 slot. Swords are great, and 1 might be better than Grave Titan now that I think about it. another copy should be ran, maybe instead of a beast within. Dismember instead of GftT because of mana. 4 life isn't a big deal, and 1 colorless is better than 2. You intend to hit them hard and fast, so it shouldn't be a big deal unless you are playing RDW, which also has to deal with creature loss of pox and lili, dismember and perilous. Mind rot works about as well as lili and pox - they discard their two worst cards. In a set with flashback, discard is a little worse. The only thing that does help really against is RDW, but there's that blasted Chandra's Phoenix that WILL be a RDW staple that is annoying as heck. This is another reason why Perilous is a better choice than R bomb.
If you go with swords, I'd try to fit a couple of Inkmoth Nexuses in place of a swamp and forest.
Edit: Another thing about targeting land with beast within: Do it during your opponent's upkeep. Unless you have a Glissa to block and kill the beast token with, if you do it during the opponent's upkeep, they have to use the mana from that land if they want to tap it, which possibly makes them make a worse play than they could have done (for example, if you destroy an island, they tap it and a colorless in response to cast Think Twice instead of holding their colorless back, playing a land and playing a sword or something more expensive). It also prevents the beast token from attacking your liliana or hitting you, so you can pox it or have lily edict it next turn. Save the Dismembers until you absolutely need them, to deliver a killing blow, or emptying your hand to get more value out of Lily.
Added in the Perilous Myrs and they flow really nice with the deck. best board position plays on first three turns are usually:
Turn 1 birds
Turn 2 Perilous Myr or Viridian Emissary
Turn 3 SmallPox
Then from there what ever you can drop a lilian and keep them off cards or creatures depending on the scenario until you get a kill card.
That's what I was hoping for. Even if you don't draw a BoP, you should get one of the other two and be able to get a good start against other decks. It has a good curve to it's tempo. I expect a lot of three color decks to be tried or in the format; it will be devastating to those.
Tokens are a nightmare against it though. Cards like Kuldotha Rebirth, Timely Reinforcements, Shrine of Loyal Legions, and Elspeth Tirel are considerable threats. I'd say Elspeth is due to shine in standard, or at least make an appearance. Her ultimate is super easy to get. Good thing she's 5 mana and Shrine takes a while to use productively. Because of this, it may be a good idea to run Ratchet Bomb in the Sideboard plus any other Beast Withins you aren't running MD. R Bomb to deal with rebirth and reinforcement tokens. Surgical Extraction is probably also worth consideration for the board. I wouldn't get to comfortable with the board until the meta shapes up; just keep it generic and mainly against your weaknesses - which is mostly white. Nevermore will be a pain, so some naturalizes should be stocked - at least 3 in the board. You should be able to take game 1 unless you have a horrible draw. This type of build should be able to keep a 2 card land draw, Lili or Glissa, Perilous or Emissary and be fine. That gives you an advantage on mulligans.
Pox syngerizes with Mayor of Averbuck so much its not even funny
werewolf pox is where it will be. Big creatures with nothing in the way to block them and no way for your opponent to unflip them
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
RnD during Time Spiral:
Rosewater: "Color Pie, WTF is that, If I want Black to be able to wrath, counter and have green creatures then I will damnit!"
Random RnD guy: "RED AKORMA! FTW!"
Gleemax: "Rosewater has broken out of my mind control!"
RnD after 2008:
MaRo: Hmm how do we fix the problems of pricing with cards like Tarmogoyf and Thoughtsieze
Random RnD Guy: OO lets make a new RED RARITY SYMBOL!
MARO: OMGWTFBBQ! Thats a great idea, we'll call it Mythic Rarity!
Gleemax: NOT AGAIN! CELEB
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Was wondering if some of you can give some input on what you think should be made or just your general opinion on the deck I have listed below. One thing I have had problems with is getting hands that consist of lands and mana ramp or 1-2 lands and no ramp. Would like some preordains but well I'm kinda iffy on the 3 colors (but I do get Phantasmal Image)
Any help will be appreciated.
4 Despise
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Smallpox
2 Distress
3 Beast Within
2 Acidic Slime
3 Viridian Emissary
2 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Entomber Exarch
3 Garruk Relentless
3 Go for the Throat
1 Mind Rot
4 Woodland Cemetery
8 Forest
12 Swamp
2 Grave Titan
SB: 3 Black Sun's Zenith
SB: 2 Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 2 Massacre Wurm
SB: 2 Creeping Corrosion
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Geth's Verdict
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
Anywho, there's no sense in wasting all that time and energy especially when another idea presents itself.
G/B will need to be as swift and efficient as possible. With Pox and Liliana, the 3/3 Beast token shouldn't be a big deal. We might want to run Glissa, the Traitor and some Ratchet Bombs for g/y shenanigans. Blue has all the cool graveyard effects in this set, and most of the good flashback cards. But I think this can make due.
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Viridian Emissary
3 Glissa, the Traitor
2 Thrun, the last Troll
1 Grave Titan
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Dismember
4 Smallpox
3 Beast Within
3 Mulch
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Garruk Relentless
4 Woodland Cemetery
12 Forest
8 Swamp
He costs 2 less green mana and 1 less mana overall for 4 mana. Much easier to play around with than double black for Smallpox (and liliana) and triple green for Garruk, Primal Hunter.
There are some things that I would like to say about your list though. For starters, and this is just probably bad magic skills on my part but, doesn't your list seem kinda risky? It might be just the way I play (still have to proxy and give it a shot mind you) but it almost reminds of an all in red type of strategy. I basically see it as ramp up discard stuff along the way, drop liliana then garruk or thrun and try and win.
The reason this concerns me is because I'm wondering how do we get back anything (outside of ratchet with glissa in play of course) that hits our gy if we might need it. I would like to add, but it doesn't seem like there is room, is mabye Entomber Exarch. He can be a discard or return a creature and has a 2/2 body that can synergy with Garruk. Mabye you can give me some info on why you didn't add some gy return or how you see yourself piloting this deck.
Also, you removed Despise. I was a little curios as to why your not playing it because doesn't it add to the goal of the deck (remove creatures and hand disruption in 1 card?) which is, in my opinion (and I might be off) to be in complete control of your opponents side of the field. Almost like a "prison" type of control deck (Stasis Lock for a rough example).
On the plus though, it seems you took out a lot from my version which I think was just making it clunky and I really like that. I think I just wanted to really play Sword of Feast and Famine in this deck lol. But I think it just seemed like over kill (still though for Rock to basically get a time warp? siiiiick :tongue:)
Going to print and sleeve it though to try it out and see if I am mistaken in my arguments. Thanks for replying though and keeping this thread alive lol. Gotta make Rock a thing to be feared
On second thought, I think Perilous Myr would be a better option than Ratchet Bomb. He does 2 if you sac him and still comes back with Glissa. R Bomb kills tokens and flipped Garruk, so probably not as good of an inclusion as my first build that didn't use Garruk. Perilous also protects lil' lily if she gets attacked early.
Onto why other cards aren't included from your build:
Entomber Exarch - Nah. He's 4 mana. You've got that slot covered with Thrun and Garruk, which are win cons. Exarch is a 2/2 - shockable and not a win con. His utility is nice, but not great in this build IMO. Mulch gives you the CA to discard to Lily and Pox.
Distress - a bit like despise, I ran outta room. However the build already has several 2 drops - Smallpox, Viridian, Mulch, Perilous....
Smallpox builds - This deck wants to empty it's hand extremely quick to deal with the two hold overs in the standard meta: Tempered Steel, which looses ornithopter, but still has Memnite and Signal Pest. The second hold over is Birthing Pod. If you don't get board control established or have the fight in your favor by turn 3-4, you won't win against these two. Pox is important to get out turns 1-3, which is why I didn't include anything over 4 mana in my build except for the singleton Grave Titan, which is a win con plan c. That dropped Acidic Slime. Solemn is a great card, and maybe great with pox, but he's at that clogged 4 slot. Swords are great, and 1 might be better than Grave Titan now that I think about it. another copy should be ran, maybe instead of a beast within. Dismember instead of GftT because of mana. 4 life isn't a big deal, and 1 colorless is better than 2. You intend to hit them hard and fast, so it shouldn't be a big deal unless you are playing RDW, which also has to deal with creature loss of pox and lili, dismember and perilous. Mind rot works about as well as lili and pox - they discard their two worst cards. In a set with flashback, discard is a little worse. The only thing that does help really against is RDW, but there's that blasted Chandra's Phoenix that WILL be a RDW staple that is annoying as heck. This is another reason why Perilous is a better choice than R bomb.
If you go with swords, I'd try to fit a couple of Inkmoth Nexuses in place of a swamp and forest.
Edit: Another thing about targeting land with beast within: Do it during your opponent's upkeep. Unless you have a Glissa to block and kill the beast token with, if you do it during the opponent's upkeep, they have to use the mana from that land if they want to tap it, which possibly makes them make a worse play than they could have done (for example, if you destroy an island, they tap it and a colorless in response to cast Think Twice instead of holding their colorless back, playing a land and playing a sword or something more expensive). It also prevents the beast token from attacking your liliana or hitting you, so you can pox it or have lily edict it next turn. Save the Dismembers until you absolutely need them, to deliver a killing blow, or emptying your hand to get more value out of Lily.
Turn 1 birds
Turn 2 Perilous Myr or Viridian Emissary
Turn 3 SmallPox
Then from there what ever you can drop a lilian and keep them off cards or creatures depending on the scenario until you get a kill card.
That's what I was hoping for. Even if you don't draw a BoP, you should get one of the other two and be able to get a good start against other decks. It has a good curve to it's tempo. I expect a lot of three color decks to be tried or in the format; it will be devastating to those.
Tokens are a nightmare against it though. Cards like Kuldotha Rebirth, Timely Reinforcements, Shrine of Loyal Legions, and Elspeth Tirel are considerable threats. I'd say Elspeth is due to shine in standard, or at least make an appearance. Her ultimate is super easy to get. Good thing she's 5 mana and Shrine takes a while to use productively. Because of this, it may be a good idea to run Ratchet Bomb in the Sideboard plus any other Beast Withins you aren't running MD. R Bomb to deal with rebirth and reinforcement tokens. Surgical Extraction is probably also worth consideration for the board. I wouldn't get to comfortable with the board until the meta shapes up; just keep it generic and mainly against your weaknesses - which is mostly white. Nevermore will be a pain, so some naturalizes should be stocked - at least 3 in the board. You should be able to take game 1 unless you have a horrible draw. This type of build should be able to keep a 2 card land draw, Lili or Glissa, Perilous or Emissary and be fine. That gives you an advantage on mulligans.
hope it does well!
werewolf pox is where it will be. Big creatures with nothing in the way to block them and no way for your opponent to unflip them
Rosewater: "Color Pie, WTF is that, If I want Black to be able to wrath, counter and have green creatures then I will damnit!"
Random RnD guy: "RED AKORMA! FTW!"
Gleemax: "Rosewater has broken out of my mind control!"
RnD after 2008:
MaRo: Hmm how do we fix the problems of pricing with cards like Tarmogoyf and Thoughtsieze
Random RnD Guy: OO lets make a new RED RARITY SYMBOL!
MARO: OMGWTFBBQ! Thats a great idea, we'll call it Mythic Rarity!
Gleemax: NOT AGAIN!
CELEB