Ok, so first of all, having a planeswalker who's most powerful abiltity is at -3 is quite impressive. Also you could combine his deathtouch wolves with prey upon, to have a nice green removal combo. I'm a little anxious when it comes to the way he need to flip. any thoughts?
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He could see play but its very unlikely. I mean once you get Garruk transformed and have a bunch of tokens they all die to Ratchet Bomb. I know one card isn't going to stop this from being ran but it is very devastating.
He's good long before he flips. Think of him as similar to Elspeth, Knight Errant in that he spits out a stream of creatures with a near relevant creature type: only his are 2/2s, not 1/1s. In a lot of matchups, his "fight" ability can be used to take out an important utility creature from the other side of the field. All three of his flipped abilities are powerful, but not unreasonably good. The fact that he can tutor without needing additional creatures on board, via generating his own sacrifice fodder is important as well. Finally, he costs 4, which has conventionally been the cost that planeswalkers need to see widespread use; yes, there are exceptions, but 4 is still cheaper than 5 or 6. He's good on his own and works well with other themes present in Innistrad. Yes, he's playable.
I think people focusing on Garruk's ass end are looking at him the wrong way. He's super easy to cast, and once he's down he's pumping out free tokens and offering free Lightning Bolts (essentially). If he flips, then he flips, I don't think that should be the goal.
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I think people focusing on Garruk's ass end are looking at him the wrong way. He's super easy to cast, and once he's down he's pumping out free tokens and offering free Lightning Bolts (essentially). If he flips, then he flips, I don't think that should be the goal.
that's true, he is good on his frontside as well, but if you combine his -3 with a boneyard wurm, wreath of geists or even a splinterfright lategame, you could finish it all in one fell swoop.
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I think people focusing on Garruk's ass end are looking at him the wrong way. He's super easy to cast, and once he's down he's pumping out free tokens and offering free Lightning Bolts (essentially). If he flips, then he flips, I don't think that should be the goal.
This. Garruk is like a bloodthirst card in the way that transform has to be good off and great on.
if the only thing you ever do with it is make a 2/2 per turn you've got a decent card out of it. the fact that this also effectively bullies mana birds and small utility creatures makes it very playable in a midrange deck that needs those kinds of board advantages.
the flipped side has a very different dynamic. creature tutoring is a very powerful ability. you can start by tutoring for Acidic Slime or something to deal with problem permanents. you can end by tutoring for something enormous like a Titan or Elesh Norn or something, and just end the game shortly thereafter.
but in both cases the card is very incremental. it will go in rock decks. it probably isn't playable outside of standard, and only if the standard format is a bit slower and more midrange focused.
He will see play for the same reason Elspeth, Knight Errant did: Tokens to protect him. He also provides green removal.
The transformed side is just gravy, and a very easy way to win games if he's left unchecked.
The only way he couldn't see play was if the only choices for green were super fast aggro and slow control, which doesn't seem likely given the current environment and the cards we've seen.
He could see play but its very unlikely. I mean once you get Garruk transformed and have a bunch of tokens they all die to Ratchet Bomb. I know one card isn't going to stop this from being ran but it is very devastating.
If he's transformed and has a bunch of tokens out, he's already pulled his weight.
Baby Garruk can be reliably played in a deck that isn't monogreen. That's easily the most important thing about him. Yes, almost every time you cast him you'll wish he had been a Primal Hunter instead, but you can't play Primal Hunter in BUG.
not to make him seem lame, but he'll probably work alongside the werewolves decently, like Mayor and anything that makes tokens, and the new doubling season. Either that or Pod maybe? seems too slow for Pod and not a creature so why run him? you cant tutor him.
Hey parasite will have a field day with this guy coming out of the board though.
Primal Hunter is really a mono-green CA engine. He works very well as the top end of a mono-green aggro curve. Relentless is much more of a Rock-Midrange card. I've been testing him in a B/G Pox deck and he's much more support than anything else. His tutor and tokens are really whats been his best qualities for me.
I swear I first read it as Wingbonger...something tells me that "As Long as Wingbonger is paired with another creature, both creatures have weed." wouldn't be as good. Seems solid for limited.
Garruk Relentless will see play because he is a splashable token Engine and Green Pseudo-Lightning Bolt.
Garruk, the Veil Cursed will see play because he makes tokens with Deathtouch, is the closest thing I see to replacing Fauna Shaman (that and sacrificing Solemn Simulacrum for a Titan search sounds like a good trade), and you get the next best thing to Overrun without running into a GGG problem.
Garruk, Primal Hunter sees play in decks that are built around heavy green. Yes, I know that Jund pulls him out fairly regularly (and that UG Control deck that was featured awhile ago), but Green needs heavy focus in those decks because once again, GGG doesn't just happen when players splash green.
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One thing I would like to remind people of when they compare Garruk 3.0 to Elspeth, when Elspeth made the tokens to protect herself, she was also building up to her ultimate (and a fairly significant one), Garruk is staying at a precarious loyalty level, and not progressing towards anything significant. In short, Elspeth > Garruk 3.0.
i wouldn't say it was Elspeth's ultimate that made her appealing. she was just almost impossible to kill. she +1'd every turn no matter what you did with her. garruk unfortunately only has a 0, not a +1. its a big difference in terms of vulnerability to direct damage and evasion creatures.
Primal hunter is just better in constructed. The problem I have is that I'm going to miss Wildspeaker so much I'm not sure I'm even going to be able to look at another green card. He was just the best garruk around.
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He definitely will be playable to some extent, his abilities are similar to Elspeth's, and he's just one green mana so splashable.... Yeah it's not really a question whether he'll be played or not.
Primal hunter is just better in constructed. The problem I have is that I'm going to miss Wildspeaker so much I'm not sure I'm even going to be able to look at another green card. He was just the best garruk around.
nah, not "just better", but quite different. primal hunter is a more powerful effect with a much more difficult cost. its also a bit tunnel visioned. primal hunter makes bodies. big ones. over and over again until the opponent can't take it anymore.
the -3 ability on it is used very very rarely in my experience, and whenever it is its usually in a win-more scenario (for example: you have both Garruk AND Gideon Jura in play, as if you needed 6 more cards and those two guys don't just win already anyway).
relentless is an interesting 4 drop. thats all it is. its not distinguished enough to build around and its not durable enough to rely on. it provides very useful effects at a reasonable cost though. clearly playable. its natural home is in kinda slower decks based around incremental advantage.
He will be played in a few decks that can make use of him as a 2-3x. I think its best place is the sideboard though, its power and efficiency are very matchup dependent
I wouldn't play him. If you got the mana to make GGG Primal Hunter Garruk is better. New Garruk is very fragile and will probably last 1-2 turns before being killed by a shock.
Garruk Relentless pretty much guarantees a solid 2-for-1, as most other good planeswalker cards are. My only issue is that his CMC is 4, otherwise, he's pretty okay. And I don't think I ever want to flip him, his front face is already pretty solid. Green removal is smexy.
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that's true, he is good on his frontside as well, but if you combine his -3 with a boneyard wurm, wreath of geists or even a splinterfright lategame, you could finish it all in one fell swoop.
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This. Garruk is like a bloodthirst card in the way that transform has to be good off and great on.
Every-time I look at this Garruk, all I see is Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Completely agree with wolfwood
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the flipped side has a very different dynamic. creature tutoring is a very powerful ability. you can start by tutoring for Acidic Slime or something to deal with problem permanents. you can end by tutoring for something enormous like a Titan or Elesh Norn or something, and just end the game shortly thereafter.
but in both cases the card is very incremental. it will go in rock decks. it probably isn't playable outside of standard, and only if the standard format is a bit slower and more midrange focused.
It is hard to choose if you want to play Primal Hunter or Relentless
The transformed side is just gravy, and a very easy way to win games if he's left unchecked.
The only way he couldn't see play was if the only choices for green were super fast aggro and slow control, which doesn't seem likely given the current environment and the cards we've seen.
If he's transformed and has a bunch of tokens out, he's already pulled his weight.
Primal costs 5 mana and triple green. Simply put, he's hefty.
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Hey parasite will have a field day with this guy coming out of the board though.
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Garruk, the Veil Cursed will see play because he makes tokens with Deathtouch, is the closest thing I see to replacing Fauna Shaman (that and sacrificing Solemn Simulacrum for a Titan search sounds like a good trade), and you get the next best thing to Overrun without running into a GGG problem.
Garruk, Primal Hunter sees play in decks that are built around heavy green. Yes, I know that Jund pulls him out fairly regularly (and that UG Control deck that was featured awhile ago), but Green needs heavy focus in those decks because once again, GGG doesn't just happen when players splash green.
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nah, not "just better", but quite different. primal hunter is a more powerful effect with a much more difficult cost. its also a bit tunnel visioned. primal hunter makes bodies. big ones. over and over again until the opponent can't take it anymore.
the -3 ability on it is used very very rarely in my experience, and whenever it is its usually in a win-more scenario (for example: you have both Garruk AND Gideon Jura in play, as if you needed 6 more cards and those two guys don't just win already anyway).
relentless is an interesting 4 drop. thats all it is. its not distinguished enough to build around and its not durable enough to rely on. it provides very useful effects at a reasonable cost though. clearly playable. its natural home is in kinda slower decks based around incremental advantage.
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