I don't agree about the comparison to GT!
Demon comes one turn later, so "compared" to dmg he's 10life behinde GT. Both survive doomblades and dismember as well so they're equal in that case.
Yes Tutoring a card is not bad, but this does not win you the game, otherwise Liliane would be the best planeswalker ever and the uncommon Tutor for 4cmc would be picked over Control Magic
GT > RSD
That's not a sleeper at all.
what? diabolic tutor isnt good cause its 4 mana and isnt card advantage, likewise lilly just puts cards on top of your deck. this guy is an evasive threat that can either replace himself or fetch up some solid answers to your opponent recovering, sure we no longer get things like animate dead which are cheap enough to laugh at the removal the opponent used and then retutor but whatever
The problem I have will Smallpox is even if you have no creatures or recurring creatures like Bloodghast, sacking a land usually hurts black more than it hurts your opponent.
Unless it's like G/B and you're ramping, I'm not sure how it's better than Geth's Verdict, and even then I'd rather run the Verdict.
The only time it seems good is if your opponent is running Scythe tiger
what? diabolic tutor isnt good cause its 4 mana and isnt card advantage, likewise lilly just puts cards on top of your deck. this guy is an evasive threat that can either replace himself or fetch up some solid answers to your opponent recovering, sure we no longer get things like animate dead which are cheap enough to laugh at the removal the opponent used and then retutor but whatever
Lilly is turn 5, by turn 7 (consider if you're lucky enough to draw land's everytime you need them...) by far you allready had THE card you whant.
Do you tap out for this 7cmc joke? Are you talking about MonoB? Are you talking about competitive or just fun? "retutor"? Haha...Sorry, can't take this seriously...
Lilly is turn 5, by turn 7 (consider if you're lucky enough to draw land's everytime you need them...) by far you allready had THE card you whant.
Do you tap out for this 7cmc joke? Are you talking about MonoB? Are you talking about competitive or just fun? "retutor"? Haha...Sorry, can't take this seriously...
Its considered a sleeper for a reason. Post rotation is going to slow down considerably. This card is seven mana but replaces itself and offers card advantage. I dont think it will be fantastic but it could be played. Consecrated Sphinx sees play so I could see this card seeing play.
MVPs (titans included)
1. Gideon Jura: Is it any surprise he makes it into most top 8 builds? At 5cmc he can thwart an attack or two and offers a win conditional top deck mode. With the format slowing down.. and caw-blades losing caw, I think he'll still go strong.
2. Grave Titan: The best of all the titans and with Valak. decks losing their biggest all-star, I doubt Primeval Titan will continue to be run rampant.
3. Timely Reinforcements: A sideboard against RDW or maindeck for control... this is a huge upset to RDW who are on a strict clock. Offers huge advantage otherwise. Six life is amazing for 3 mana. It's Heroe's Reunion with tokens.. ugh
4. Stormblood Berserker: Also reads as deals 3 damage each turn. With Kiln Fiend and Goblin Bushwhacker leaving standard, we're left with a pretty beefy Red deck beater.
5. Solemn Simulacrum: Great back in days of Mirrodin, but never got the love it deserved. Now it's back in a slower format and provides great fodder for Birthing Pod.
6. Quicksilver Amulet: Monstrous with eldrazi, but will this locket keep its charm when the big boys leave standard? Flashing a creature into play seems solid enough to warrant being here.
7.Inferno Titan: A staple for big red and although hasn't really seen too much play, it deals 3 off the bat in what I'm guessing will be 2 toughness creatures in the future (with Lightning Bolt gone).
8. Oblivion Ring: This beloved staple is back and I think wotc's biggest regret was not having it around in the days of Jace, the Mindsculptor.
9. Mana Leak: I hope this leaks somewhere down a sewage pipe around M13. Besides Spell Pierce.. the greatest counter we have.
10. Grand Abolisher: Stops counters outright? Definitely a huge boost for anti control decks everywhere.
*Honorable mention: Acidic Slime: Artifact removal, land destruction... all rolled one in a deathtouch body.. what's not to love?
Sleepers
1. Jace, Memory Adept: What a terrible card, but in the right deck and without the right sideboard it can be brutal. It helped an Italian win nationals.
2. Garruk, Primal Hunter: I see him in play in next level jund. The format seems like it'll slow down once zendikar rotates out. If that happens, he may be a MVP.
3. Dungrove Elder: I know there are many people laughing at a hexproof guy and scoffing over its small size at first... but it grows and resists the most popular removal dismember.. completely. In a world with Angelic Destiny and Swords... it can be a big problem. It's less than Thrun and escapes the legendary trap he had.
4. Swiftfoot Boots: Lightning greaves was pretty monsterous back in the day and it had to compete against affinity. Super aggro decks will die out when Zendkar rotates and besides a well timed Geth's Verdict or massive dumps like Day of Judgment and Black Sun's Zenith... an Elesh with hexproof feels pretty scary.
5. Smallpox: Low mana curve, discarding stuff you want in the graveyard seems like it might be good for MBC decks (man, wotc is really trying to push this). Vengeful Pharaoh is a taste of what I think is in store for us in Innistrad. Right now, dumping a Bloodghast seems fine while losing lands doesn't hurt against decks with small mana curves like vamps.
6. Visions of Beyond: At the very least, it'll draw you deeper into your deck.. but possibly netting 3 while trying to mill yourself or your opponent will be really nice.
7. Hunter's Insight: Great card draw for green. What a great hit with hexproof.
8. Stoneforge Dignitary: Turbo fog says hi! I saw some amazing turbo fog rogue decks with green/white using gideon, fog spells and noxious revivals. Could there be something in the works for U/W/G with Venser?
9. Sun Titan: Low on the list because Beleran is rotating out. A sleeper hit nonetheless. There are new clone bodies that would like to get a second chance at life.
10. Chandra, Firemind: We have yet to get anything that she really goes crazy with, but I'm planning on grabbing a few while she's still deemed terribad. She's the best of the Chandra's.. but that's not really saying much.
Its considered a sleeper for a reason. Post rotation is going to slow down considerably. This card is seven mana but replaces itself and offers card advantage. I dont think it will be fantastic but it could be played. Consecrated Sphinx sees play so I could see this card seeing play.
So maybe there's a "language"-and or "understanding" problem between us
But that's no problem i'm used to, my english is not that well i know...
When i'm talking about a sleeper, I'm talking about a card, that's gonna be played in competitive deck's with the ability to win/warp/whatever. But actually no one knows/cares about the potentional until the first player has success with...
but you're talking about like: "the card will see some play..."
so i agree with you, it will see some play...at kitchen table and funny fnm...But to be honest, i doubt it will see play in competitive decks or sucessfull decks in tournaments. mean's i don't see competitive potential at all. You mentioned Sphinx, comes one turn earlyier as well, just like GT, and you get much better card advantage. And GT just kills before you can make profit from the card your demon tutored for ya. I know no one wins at turn 6, but i just whant to point out, that 1 mana more or less by turn 6-8 makes huge difference...may 1-3 turns until you draw the 7.th land...
The only way, that guy can improve and see much more play is, when ISD comes, and we all know there should be s/t like a graveyard theme, brings a "reanimation" possibility wich makes more sense with combo. Unless this will be revealed, Sphinx, GT & Co. are the better choices... And still if they print this kind of reanimation, don't you think stuff like blightsteel colossus or sheoldred &Co. will be much better instead if this demon?
I mean... When you're digging for a huge thread from your graveyard, then dig for the best
Just like GT generates threads every turn for every attack... meanwhile you just tutored a card and maybe you still have to wait for the next turn, until you can "cast"/use your tutored treasure...
I'm running in a circle, sorry
EDIT: Forget about diggin for blightsteel colossus... not possible what a shame i did not consider...
Because then you have 8 3 converted mana cost creature spells with nothing to do turns 1 an 2.
Why wouldn't you be able to still run both and have something to do turns 1 and 2? I mean it's only 8 cards in your whole deck. I could see both of them being useful in a Puresteel Paladin build (or maybe a 4 Crusader, 2 Avenger split). Crusader is definitely better, but Avenger could be great against aggro builds.
Then again though, he still feels like he should have first strike or something else than just a vanilla 2/2 that may or may not get bigger...
The sleeper that I think was off of everyone's radar was Phantasmal Image. It's even seeing play in Legacy. The card is kinda bonkers, being a 2 mana clone and all. Often times it just comes in to copy a legend (at least in Legacy) turning it into a blue, uncounterable Doom Blade (w/Aether Vial).
Buried Ruin seems well positioned as well with Solemn Simulacrum and Wurmcoil Engine being relevant again. There's worse you could do with a land than gravedigging to get a card advantage machine like Simulacrum and Engine.
I think the reason it sees play in Legacy is because there are creatures worth copying on turn 2. I don't see it being much different from Clone in standard, since by the time you have something worth copying, you can afford 4 mana. Maybe if the format really slows down and aggro gets a little bigger, you'll see him copying Mirran Crusaders and Glimmerpoint Stags, but that seems like kind of a long shot.
Paying two mana on turn four to clone is still better than paying four mana on turn four.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If you're Havengul problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems and a Lich ain't one." - FSM
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
Now that Timely Reinforcements has been discovered, Buried Ruin is now easily the most underrated card in the set. Any land that doesn't come into play tapped and does something significant later in the game (or early in the game) is good. This card will see play in Standard, Modern, Legacy, Vintage, and EDH.
If you're casting a clone on turn four then Phyrexian Metamorph is far better. It's less vulnerable than the Image and more versatile.
The only difference is that GftT doesn't kill Metamorph and maybe Lightning Bolt on some occasions. Even so, you don't lose tempo in terms of mana usage and maintain card parity in the worst case scenario. BTW, Metamorph is an artifact please don't talk about vulnerability. The only valid point you made is copying artifacts still being relevent, especially for say equipment.
That's the least of Avenger's issues. You're playing a 2/2 for 3 that depends on your opponent to ever be any better. Look at the Primordial Hydra discussion on whether it's "good", and that thing grows on its own. Mirran Crusader is a far superior card, and if I'm dying for something on turn 3 beyond that, it's going to be a Sword of some kind, draining mana to level a Student of Warfare, or another 2 drop that will prove more useful in today's meta.
Lilly is turn 5, by turn 7 (consider if you're lucky enough to draw land's everytime you need them...) by far you allready had THE card you whant.
Do you tap out for this 7cmc joke? Are you talking about MonoB? Are you talking about competitive or just fun? "retutor"? Haha...Sorry, can't take this seriously...
It likely won't see play with titans around, but it certainly isn't laughable as you put it.
Angel of despair saw plenty of play in T2 when she was legal, and she was 2 colors.
This card trades her ability to reactively answer a threat for the ability to get the best card in your deck. It's at least as powerful as despair, likely a bit more so, since angel was really only at her best coming into a board where your opponent had one or two threats. If it was an empty board, she nuked a land at 7 mana... whatever, if it was several threats, she killed one and blocked... nice but not anything rune-scarred can't do and more.
He's a serious threat, your opponent can't ignore him and he replaces himself with the best card in your deck for the situation. If the titans had rotated he would be seeing play right now.
Skinshifter Is my pick for sleeper of the set. Makes me think of Figure of Destiny, but has more stay power and helps you in a pinch.
As for MVP of the set got give it to Grand Abolisher. This is what my white weanie deck needed to keep my opponents in check. I'm very happy pulled me a foil one of this baby in a pack.
Paying two mana on turn four to clone is still better than paying four mana on turn four.
But not by enough. Clone sees no play. This isn't a significant upgrade. The only way you really get a bargain over playing a second copy of w/e creature is if you can play a second spell that turn, and that happens too late to matter in most matchups, or else with too narrow a window (saving 4 with sun titan is slow. saving 1 with mirran crusader is insignificant.)
However, in today's culture of Justin Bieber, Jersey Shore, and Twilight, where every song on the radio, every program on television and every site on the internet is just another monument to the pinnacle of human stupidity, it's certainly not the worst thing that people could be watching.
Skinshifter Is my pick for sleeper of the set. Makes me think of Figure of Destiny, but has more stay power and helps you in a pinch.
As for MVP of the set got give it to Grand Abolisher. This is what my white weanie deck needed to keep my opponents in check. I'm very happy pulled me a foil one of this baby in a pack.
I'm glad you picked your favourite card in foil
But about skinshifter... For me Figure was much stronger. Because of being a 1 drop and playable în two colours makes it much stronger. And for playing green when you like to have skinshifter, by turn 4 (you won't drop him T3 because you whant to protect...) Thrun is just the better choice.
Maybe that's just me...
The fact that Skinshifter can only activate his ability once every turn fully neuters the card. He will be bulk in a few months. Also not permanently changing to the mode also hurt him from ever seeing play.
After rotation, I think Archon of Justice is actually a card to look out for. With Birthing Pod already a key part of the metagame, I believe post rotation, pod will be a huge player, possibly even the best deck. Archon is not used right now in most Pod builds, but he seems like he could do some serious work in the right build.
The big problem with Skinshifter is that you only ever want to use it's ability when reacting to combat/removal. For the most part, he will stay a 1/1 and just ping your opponent. Of course, with Sword of Feast and Famine, you can make Skinshifter the most annoying creature in existence. It takes his semi-immunity to Burn and Dismember and pushes it through the roof.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
what? diabolic tutor isnt good cause its 4 mana and isnt card advantage, likewise lilly just puts cards on top of your deck. this guy is an evasive threat that can either replace himself or fetch up some solid answers to your opponent recovering, sure we no longer get things like animate dead which are cheap enough to laugh at the removal the opponent used and then retutor but whatever
Unless it's like G/B and you're ramping, I'm not sure how it's better than Geth's Verdict, and even then I'd rather run the Verdict.
The only time it seems good is if your opponent is running Scythe tiger
I consider Gideon's Avenger as a sleeper.
And from the looks of it, no one seems to care about Skinshifter, Dungrove Elder, and Doubling Chant, these green cards are gonna be huge in IMO.
Lilly is turn 5, by turn 7 (consider if you're lucky enough to draw land's everytime you need them...) by far you allready had THE card you whant.
Do you tap out for this 7cmc joke? Are you talking about MonoB? Are you talking about competitive or just fun? "retutor"? Haha...Sorry, can't take this seriously...
Its considered a sleeper for a reason. Post rotation is going to slow down considerably. This card is seven mana but replaces itself and offers card advantage. I dont think it will be fantastic but it could be played. Consecrated Sphinx sees play so I could see this card seeing play.
Thanks to Rivenor for the awesome Signature!
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"You'll Never Walk Alone"
i could see edh due to singleton restrictions but i doubt casual players would run this over or next to darksteel ingot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpgjnU7C3Aw
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1. Gideon Jura: Is it any surprise he makes it into most top 8 builds? At 5cmc he can thwart an attack or two and offers a win conditional top deck mode. With the format slowing down.. and caw-blades losing caw, I think he'll still go strong.
2. Grave Titan: The best of all the titans and with Valak. decks losing their biggest all-star, I doubt Primeval Titan will continue to be run rampant.
3. Timely Reinforcements: A sideboard against RDW or maindeck for control... this is a huge upset to RDW who are on a strict clock. Offers huge advantage otherwise. Six life is amazing for 3 mana. It's Heroe's Reunion with tokens.. ugh
4. Stormblood Berserker: Also reads as deals 3 damage each turn. With Kiln Fiend and Goblin Bushwhacker leaving standard, we're left with a pretty beefy Red deck beater.
5. Solemn Simulacrum: Great back in days of Mirrodin, but never got the love it deserved. Now it's back in a slower format and provides great fodder for Birthing Pod.
6. Quicksilver Amulet: Monstrous with eldrazi, but will this locket keep its charm when the big boys leave standard? Flashing a creature into play seems solid enough to warrant being here.
7.Inferno Titan: A staple for big red and although hasn't really seen too much play, it deals 3 off the bat in what I'm guessing will be 2 toughness creatures in the future (with Lightning Bolt gone).
8. Oblivion Ring: This beloved staple is back and I think wotc's biggest regret was not having it around in the days of Jace, the Mindsculptor.
9. Mana Leak: I hope this leaks somewhere down a sewage pipe around M13. Besides Spell Pierce.. the greatest counter we have.
10. Grand Abolisher: Stops counters outright? Definitely a huge boost for anti control decks everywhere.
*Honorable mention: Acidic Slime: Artifact removal, land destruction... all rolled one in a deathtouch body.. what's not to love?
Sleepers
1. Jace, Memory Adept: What a terrible card, but in the right deck and without the right sideboard it can be brutal. It helped an Italian win nationals.
2. Garruk, Primal Hunter: I see him in play in next level jund. The format seems like it'll slow down once zendikar rotates out. If that happens, he may be a MVP.
3. Dungrove Elder: I know there are many people laughing at a hexproof guy and scoffing over its small size at first... but it grows and resists the most popular removal dismember.. completely. In a world with Angelic Destiny and Swords... it can be a big problem. It's less than Thrun and escapes the legendary trap he had.
4. Swiftfoot Boots: Lightning greaves was pretty monsterous back in the day and it had to compete against affinity. Super aggro decks will die out when Zendkar rotates and besides a well timed Geth's Verdict or massive dumps like Day of Judgment and Black Sun's Zenith... an Elesh with hexproof feels pretty scary.
5. Smallpox: Low mana curve, discarding stuff you want in the graveyard seems like it might be good for MBC decks (man, wotc is really trying to push this). Vengeful Pharaoh is a taste of what I think is in store for us in Innistrad. Right now, dumping a Bloodghast seems fine while losing lands doesn't hurt against decks with small mana curves like vamps.
6. Visions of Beyond: At the very least, it'll draw you deeper into your deck.. but possibly netting 3 while trying to mill yourself or your opponent will be really nice.
7. Hunter's Insight: Great card draw for green. What a great hit with hexproof.
8. Stoneforge Dignitary: Turbo fog says hi! I saw some amazing turbo fog rogue decks with green/white using gideon, fog spells and noxious revivals. Could there be something in the works for U/W/G with Venser?
9. Sun Titan: Low on the list because Beleran is rotating out. A sleeper hit nonetheless. There are new clone bodies that would like to get a second chance at life.
10. Chandra, Firemind: We have yet to get anything that she really goes crazy with, but I'm planning on grabbing a few while she's still deemed terribad. She's the best of the Chandra's.. but that's not really saying much.
So maybe there's a "language"-and or "understanding" problem between us
But that's no problem i'm used to, my english is not that well i know...
When i'm talking about a sleeper, I'm talking about a card, that's gonna be played in competitive deck's with the ability to win/warp/whatever. But actually no one knows/cares about the potentional until the first player has success with...
but you're talking about like: "the card will see some play..."
so i agree with you, it will see some play...at kitchen table and funny fnm...But to be honest, i doubt it will see play in competitive decks or sucessfull decks in tournaments. mean's i don't see competitive potential at all. You mentioned Sphinx, comes one turn earlyier as well, just like GT, and you get much better card advantage. And GT just kills before you can make profit from the card your demon tutored for ya. I know no one wins at turn 6, but i just whant to point out, that 1 mana more or less by turn 6-8 makes huge difference...may 1-3 turns until you draw the 7.th land...
The only way, that guy can improve and see much more play is, when ISD comes, and we all know there should be s/t like a graveyard theme, brings a "reanimation" possibility wich makes more sense with combo. Unless this will be revealed, Sphinx, GT & Co. are the better choices... And still if they print this kind of reanimation, don't you think stuff like blightsteel colossus or sheoldred &Co. will be much better instead if this demon?
I mean... When you're digging for a huge thread from your graveyard, then dig for the best
Just like GT generates threads every turn for every attack... meanwhile you just tutored a card and maybe you still have to wait for the next turn, until you can "cast"/use your tutored treasure...
I'm running in a circle, sorry
EDIT: Forget about diggin for blightsteel colossus... not possible what a shame i did not consider...
Why not run both?
Standard
WBGWBGABZAN AGGROWBGWBG
Because then you have 8 3 converted mana cost creature spells with nothing to do turns 1 an 2.
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http://blueconceptnavynuke.blogspot.com/2012/08/captains-mast-at-nnptc.html
Why wouldn't you be able to still run both and have something to do turns 1 and 2? I mean it's only 8 cards in your whole deck. I could see both of them being useful in a Puresteel Paladin build (or maybe a 4 Crusader, 2 Avenger split). Crusader is definitely better, but Avenger could be great against aggro builds.
Then again though, he still feels like he should have first strike or something else than just a vanilla 2/2 that may or may not get bigger...
The sleeper that I think was off of everyone's radar was Phantasmal Image. It's even seeing play in Legacy. The card is kinda bonkers, being a 2 mana clone and all. Often times it just comes in to copy a legend (at least in Legacy) turning it into a blue, uncounterable Doom Blade (w/Aether Vial).
Buried Ruin seems well positioned as well with Solemn Simulacrum and Wurmcoil Engine being relevant again. There's worse you could do with a land than gravedigging to get a card advantage machine like Simulacrum and Engine.
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
Ashcoat Bear of Limited
The only difference is that GftT doesn't kill Metamorph and maybe Lightning Bolt on some occasions. Even so, you don't lose tempo in terms of mana usage and maintain card parity in the worst case scenario. BTW, Metamorph is an artifact please don't talk about vulnerability. The only valid point you made is copying artifacts still being relevent, especially for say equipment.
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Like reading magic theory?
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Are you a navy Nuke?
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That's the least of Avenger's issues. You're playing a 2/2 for 3 that depends on your opponent to ever be any better. Look at the Primordial Hydra discussion on whether it's "good", and that thing grows on its own. Mirran Crusader is a far superior card, and if I'm dying for something on turn 3 beyond that, it's going to be a Sword of some kind, draining mana to level a Student of Warfare, or another 2 drop that will prove more useful in today's meta.
It likely won't see play with titans around, but it certainly isn't laughable as you put it.
Angel of despair saw plenty of play in T2 when she was legal, and she was 2 colors.
This card trades her ability to reactively answer a threat for the ability to get the best card in your deck. It's at least as powerful as despair, likely a bit more so, since angel was really only at her best coming into a board where your opponent had one or two threats. If it was an empty board, she nuked a land at 7 mana... whatever, if it was several threats, she killed one and blocked... nice but not anything rune-scarred can't do and more.
He's a serious threat, your opponent can't ignore him and he replaces himself with the best card in your deck for the situation. If the titans had rotated he would be seeing play right now.
As for MVP of the set got give it to Grand Abolisher. This is what my white weanie deck needed to keep my opponents in check. I'm very happy pulled me a foil one of this baby in a pack.
Pinkie is the Best!
Trade list: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=361168
But not by enough. Clone sees no play. This isn't a significant upgrade. The only way you really get a bargain over playing a second copy of w/e creature is if you can play a second spell that turn, and that happens too late to matter in most matchups, or else with too narrow a window (saving 4 with sun titan is slow. saving 1 with mirran crusader is insignificant.)
I'm Da_Man on Cockatrice
I'm glad you picked your favourite card in foil
But about skinshifter... For me Figure was much stronger. Because of being a 1 drop and playable în two colours makes it much stronger. And for playing green when you like to have skinshifter, by turn 4 (you won't drop him T3 because you whant to protect...) Thrun is just the better choice.
Maybe that's just me...
After rotation, I think Archon of Justice is actually a card to look out for. With Birthing Pod already a key part of the metagame, I believe post rotation, pod will be a huge player, possibly even the best deck. Archon is not used right now in most Pod builds, but he seems like he could do some serious work in the right build.
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- To my youngest sister when she was 6.