If some day there is a card that is more effective when exiled, like how bridge from below works, then this would be an extremely efficient way to exile your own spells
The card is very similiar to Torpor Orb. Orb, while neat, isn't all that good. Problem with cards like these, is that they are dependant on other cards. If you don't draw these then each Sundial you draw beyond the first becomes a horrible draw.
Like the Orb, it has it's uses. Will it be a sleeper? Most likely not.
I disagree here. It will not be a standard sleeper (I should have specified, it does not do much in standard right now) but there are too many cards in legacy that are themselves decent cards that if this is out become monsters.
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Saki, Tsumo After Kon needed to be banned sadly. But I wish we could have kept Saki Miyanaga past the rotation.
Does the Sundial create an 'end step phase' when it ends the turn or does it just blatantly end the turn?
I'm inclining to the latter, right?
So how would it interact with an Oblivion Ring and Venser the Sojourner's bouncing ability, for example?
You bounce the O-Ring and in response to it leaving the battlefield you end the turn, denying the previously exiled permanent reentry to the battlefield. But then what happens to the O-Ring?
If there is no end step phase, it comes back at the beginning of the next end step? Does that mean your opponent's end step? Or does the Oblivion Ring just get stranded in some strange dimension?
However, still worth mentioning is the fact that if you use the O-Ring/Venser interaction as described above, your O-Ring won't come back until the beginning of your opponent's end step (as yours will be skipped by the Dial activation) which to me doesn't seem very efficient.
I really like the Legacy interaction with the Extra turn cards though. I can see some kind of crazy R/W deck with Dials and Angel's Grace to go along with the Fortunes, and pacts and stuff too. Also, said deck would probably work real well with Howling Mine, or some other continuous engine type thingy to make those extra turns worth it.
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The card is very similiar to Torpor Orb. Orb, while neat, isn't all that good. Problem with cards like these, is that they are dependant on other cards. If you don't draw these then each Sundial you draw beyond the first becomes a horrible draw.
Like the Orb, it has it's uses. Will it be a sleeper? Most likely not.
I disagree completely about it being like Torpor Orb. I agree that it won't be good in constructed, but it's nothing like Torpor Orb.
Torpor Orb is a terrible card meant to be played in constructed and people thought it could have constructed potential. This is a card clearly meant for casual formats. Torpor Orb is pretty much not a "fun" card at all, and Sundial is bound to be able to make a ton of fun decks.
Note: When reading cards to your friends on spoiler night do not read this as:
"Sundial of the Infinite; 2 drop artifact; pay 1, tap. End the turn"
...The last clase sort of makes this NOT the stupidiest thing ever....
With this wording though- er... ya, not a fan. It really is only slightly relavent and thats with the flash in twin eot... but- we have dismember... why not run dismember over this if your so worried about twins and its versatile... Limited Fodder... not even limited tho.... EDH-?... no.... Casual.... heck- even as a casual player I think I would want to vomit.
Not bad, but he can still play creatures, which means sceptering it will not be a hard lock such as the case of Silence.
eh, but if they ever got out a creature anyway, you'd need a chant or grace on a stick anyway. So abeyance answers a little better than silence. But I really like this deck
Also, am I right to think that an opponent could still play instants on your turn by responding to the Sundial trigger?
You can't really use it without passing priority around, unless you get a 2nd one out
still having 12 time walks in legacy does a neat job
They both have their uses, but expecting it to get some price tag, much like that they expected with Orb, will only lead to disappointment. Because beyond the first they will always be dead draws.
Ahh. Nah I don't expect it to have a price tag. I expect it to see use. Its a rare in the most heavily printed of the modern sets, it can't hold a price tag unless it is key to a standard deck.
I simply expect it to be a sleeper in seeing excellent performance in legacy decks and I do think it may drive up several much older 1 dollar rares to 5 dollars if that is the case. I do not think it is Vampire Hexmage/DD but it might be the little bother to that sort of thing.
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Saki, Tsumo After Kon needed to be banned sadly. But I wish we could have kept Saki Miyanaga past the rotation.
I see some fun things to do with it.
The first is that it keeps Berserk target from dying at the beginning of the end step.
It will make me put Stasis back together also.
Kiki-Jiki gains the ability to create tokens of things that don’t leave play since his errata says "at the beginning of the nextend step", the same for Mimic Vat.
Sneak Attack gets some power out of this, along with Splinter Twin.
Phage not killing you for reanimating her is kind of funny also. Along with other come into play effects that are particularly painful.
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Funny how this is the closest they will probably get to actually printing a new Counterspell on a stick. I probably wouldn't go as far as to build an entire deck dedicated to abuse the Sundial, but then again you probably don't need to.
First of all, it stops your opponent from playing a reactive game with Instants and Flash during your turn. While this won't help you much if you're trying to resolve a spell through countermagic, it will help you gain quite a deal of card and tempo advantage by activating it in response to point removal. Sure, you may have to sacrifice some damage but you saved your critter, which is kinda important when said critter is, say, a Titan or a Consecrated Sphinx.
Second, as many on this thread already mentioned, it's a neat way to work around triggered drawbacks. You probably won't get a lot of extra mileage out of a second hit with a Ball Lightning or whatever, but you will like this card when you try to resolve an Avatar of Discord on an already depleted hand, or skipping a turn to keep Stasis alive a turn longer.
Third, this lets a permission player keep the game where he's at its strongest: during an opponent's turn. This alone can amount to huge tempo boosts by preventing the opposing player from forcing you into a tap-out. All for half the price of the cheapest countermagic available in Type 2, and reusable to boot!
What happens if I play an Acidic Slime and my opponent Mana Leaks it can I just Tap Sundial In Response to void the Mana Leak? Will my Acidic Slime stay on the field and will the Ability Trigger?
What happens if I play an Acidic Slime and my opponent Mana Leaks it can I just Tap Sundial In Response to void the Mana Leak? Will my Acidic Slime stay on the field and will the Ability Trigger?
Just curious...
The slime will be removed along with the mana leak and your turn will be over.
This card reminds me of sort of like Mindbreak Trap...
Confused how Mind Break trap works because if Someone plays...
Creature, Sorcery, then and Instant you can activate Mind Break Trap for Free Right but how does it work if they activate multiple spells making a new stack each time??
Like here is a scenario...
Opponent plays Frost Titan and taps down my mountain, then he lightning Bolts making a new stack, then he activates a Duress...
Mindbreak Trap Activation for free right? Does this mean that even though all three of these have been played they will be Exiled despite them being on a separate stack?
Hope this makes sense...I want to try and abuse Sundial with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
In the Mindbreak Trap example, you may not exile the Frost Titan and Lightning Bolt, because they've already resolved and are no longer spells on the stack. You can only hit Duress like that.
Mindbreak Trap is designed to close out counterspell wars, where there is more than one spell on the stack. It can also counter spells with Storm that makes copies of themselves, since the copies are put on the same stack as the original spell.
In order to abuse Sundial with Kiki-Jiki, simply make a copy of a creature and wait until your end step. When Kiki-Jiki's delayed trigger gets put on the stack and tries to make you sacrifice your copy, activate Sundial to end your turn. The sacrifice trigger will be exiled and you'll keep the copy forever and ever.
1) Endless Whispers wont trigger when my dudes die if i activate Sundial at end of turn?
2) This can "counter" removal my opponent plays on my dudes by exiling all spells on the stack?
i.e. I declare attack step, swing with Obliterator, my opponent plays Dismember, I activate sundial in response, Dismember goes poof? Obliterator says woot?
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I disagree here. It will not be a standard sleeper (I should have specified, it does not do much in standard right now) but there are too many cards in legacy that are themselves decent cards that if this is out become monsters.
I'm inclining to the latter, right?
So how would it interact with an Oblivion Ring and Venser the Sojourner's bouncing ability, for example?
You bounce the O-Ring and in response to it leaving the battlefield you end the turn, denying the previously exiled permanent reentry to the battlefield. But then what happens to the O-Ring?
If there is no end step phase, it comes back at the beginning of the next end step? Does that mean your opponent's end step? Or does the Oblivion Ring just get stranded in some strange dimension?
I really like the Legacy interaction with the Extra turn cards though. I can see some kind of crazy R/W deck with Dials and Angel's Grace to go along with the Fortunes, and pacts and stuff too. Also, said deck would probably work real well with Howling Mine, or some other continuous engine type thingy to make those extra turns worth it.
I disagree completely about it being like Torpor Orb. I agree that it won't be good in constructed, but it's nothing like Torpor Orb.
Torpor Orb is a terrible card meant to be played in constructed and people thought it could have constructed potential. This is a card clearly meant for casual formats. Torpor Orb is pretty much not a "fun" card at all, and Sundial is bound to be able to make a ton of fun decks.
"Sundial of the Infinite; 2 drop artifact; pay 1, tap. End the turn"
...The last clase sort of makes this NOT the stupidiest thing ever....
With this wording though- er... ya, not a fan. It really is only slightly relavent and thats with the flash in twin eot... but- we have dismember... why not run dismember over this if your so worried about twins and its versatile... Limited Fodder... not even limited tho.... EDH-?... no.... Casual.... heck- even as a casual player I think I would want to vomit.
Decks:
eh, but if they ever got out a creature anyway, you'd need a chant or grace on a stick anyway. So abeyance answers a little better than silence. But I really like this deck
Also, am I right to think that an opponent could still play instants on your turn by responding to the Sundial trigger?
You can't really use it without passing priority around, unless you get a 2nd one out
still having 12 time walks in legacy does a neat job
Ahh. Nah I don't expect it to have a price tag. I expect it to see use. Its a rare in the most heavily printed of the modern sets, it can't hold a price tag unless it is key to a standard deck.
I simply expect it to be a sleeper in seeing excellent performance in legacy decks and I do think it may drive up several much older 1 dollar rares to 5 dollars if that is the case. I do not think it is Vampire Hexmage/DD but it might be the little bother to that sort of thing.
The first is that it keeps Berserk target from dying at the beginning of the end step.
It will make me put Stasis back together also.
Kiki-Jiki gains the ability to create tokens of things that don’t leave play since his errata says "at the beginning of the nextend step", the same for Mimic Vat.
Sneak Attack gets some power out of this, along with Splinter Twin.
Phage not killing you for reanimating her is kind of funny also. Along with other come into play effects that are particularly painful.
H.P. Lovecraft
First of all, it stops your opponent from playing a reactive game with Instants and Flash during your turn. While this won't help you much if you're trying to resolve a spell through countermagic, it will help you gain quite a deal of card and tempo advantage by activating it in response to point removal. Sure, you may have to sacrifice some damage but you saved your critter, which is kinda important when said critter is, say, a Titan or a Consecrated Sphinx.
Second, as many on this thread already mentioned, it's a neat way to work around triggered drawbacks. You probably won't get a lot of extra mileage out of a second hit with a Ball Lightning or whatever, but you will like this card when you try to resolve an Avatar of Discord on an already depleted hand, or skipping a turn to keep Stasis alive a turn longer.
Third, this lets a permission player keep the game where he's at its strongest: during an opponent's turn. This alone can amount to huge tempo boosts by preventing the opposing player from forcing you into a tap-out. All for half the price of the cheapest countermagic available in Type 2, and reusable to boot!
I got 3 of them in my Fat Pack and 1 is Foily...
What happens if I play an Acidic Slime and my opponent Mana Leaks it can I just Tap Sundial In Response to void the Mana Leak? Will my Acidic Slime stay on the field and will the Ability Trigger?
Just curious...
The slime will be removed along with the mana leak and your turn will be over.
This card seems good but I just want to make sure I got how it works right? Seems a little complicated.
Fundamentally, ending the turn does just that. It eliminates everything on the stack as indiscriminately as Wrath of God destroys all creatures.
Is your Acidic Slime on the stack? If so, it'll be exiled.
Confused how Mind Break trap works because if Someone plays...
Creature, Sorcery, then and Instant you can activate Mind Break Trap for Free Right but how does it work if they activate multiple spells making a new stack each time??
Like here is a scenario...
Opponent plays Frost Titan and taps down my mountain, then he lightning Bolts making a new stack, then he activates a Duress...
Mindbreak Trap Activation for free right? Does this mean that even though all three of these have been played they will be Exiled despite them being on a separate stack?
Hope this makes sense...I want to try and abuse Sundial with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Mindbreak Trap is designed to close out counterspell wars, where there is more than one spell on the stack. It can also counter spells with Storm that makes copies of themselves, since the copies are put on the same stack as the original spell.
In order to abuse Sundial with Kiki-Jiki, simply make a copy of a creature and wait until your end step. When Kiki-Jiki's delayed trigger gets put on the stack and tries to make you sacrifice your copy, activate Sundial to end your turn. The sacrifice trigger will be exiled and you'll keep the copy forever and ever.
Hope that helps!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpgjnU7C3Aw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe7kkZixasc
LOL - I was JUST coming here to ask about this.
It totally works, right?
Opponent: Hive Mind and then a Pact
You: untap, end the turn on your upkeep (you then don't have to pay for the copied Pact)
Opponent: Has to pay for the Pact (probably can't...)
funny - mediocre minds think alike!
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Death and Taxes, Infect
Modern: Infect, TarmoTwin
1) Endless Whispers wont trigger when my dudes die if i activate Sundial at end of turn?
2) This can "counter" removal my opponent plays on my dudes by exiling all spells on the stack?
i.e. I declare attack step, swing with Obliterator, my opponent plays Dismember, I activate sundial in response, Dismember goes poof? Obliterator says woot?