Pretty much every demon in magic is awful, and the few good ones just don't work with Kaalia or aren't good in EDH. After going through the entire list of angels, dragons, and demons for a Kaalia deck the only demon I wrote down was Pestilence Demon, and I wouldn't be heartbroken without him - there are many cards that I would run over him, but he was the only demon that seemed remotely relevant. (Compared to 5 angels and 6 dragons I wrote down)
So, what are you guys looking at for your Kaalia decks? Does the lack of demons disappoint you as much as it does me?
I can't believe anyone is excited about this card. It is absolutely unplayable. I wouldn't even play her in LIMITED. Easily the worst walker printed since the green elf one. Absolutely terrible.
A long long time ago, someone affiliated with Jesus (the malaligned side) objected to magic the gathering on the whole because of basically two cards (that they could read)... Unholy Strength, and Lord of the Pit. Wizards responded by removing the pentagram from the background of Unholy Strength, and discontinuing all Devils, Demons, and things demonic... (see demonic tutor, contract from below, demonic attorney) thus the end of Ante, and the best creature in magic, Lord of the Pit.
But in all seriousness, LOTP was a bomb in his day, especially with breeding pit, right up there with force of nature + COP green, and Shivan Dragon. The anti- demon thing must've stuck. A healthy fear of evangelists is good in the USA.
I'm still waiting for
3BB
Barney the Demon
Creature- Demon
Flying, Infect, Protection from Angels, Spirits, and half-truths
5/6
Until then, let it be known that evangelists have had their permanent effect on MTG.
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Check out my blog, an EDH / Commander Odyssey- 27 (and hopefully soon to be 32) decklists of EDH / Commander decks built from my collection. Comments needed and appreciated.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Aside from her, well... Havoc Demon is an okay "rattlesnake" card; players who attack into him tend to have their team die.
Carnifex demon is okay, not great but okay, and allows you to block creatures with infect and wither forever. It also screws up combat math.
Defiler of Souls is my favourite demon, by far. The Abyss on a 5/5 flyer that doesn't hurt you. Well it requires a little bit of build around, but yeah that guy is savage.
Kuro, Pitlord is okay here. His disgusting mana cost is irrelevant, and his upkeep ability is not particularly relevant either. You just sacrifice him next turn. But in the mean time you pay life liberally to either get in unblocked or just ruin your opponent's combat math. Shrink this blocker, shrink that attacker. Kill every utility creature. Seems fine.
Stronghold Overseer is just impossible to block. That counts for something, right?
Hellcarver Demon may have a ridiculous downside, but can have a potentially amazing pay-off. Seems awesome to connect with this dude I feel like you could drop kaalia on turn 2-4 depending on ramp, and with a deck full of dragons, and angels reveal between 1 and 6 fatties off the top of your deck. I kinda want to try to do this just to see if I can. And the look on my opponent's faces when it happens.
EDIT: And Demonic Hordes is an underrated bomb if you can pay for it. But where I play people ***** about lando so...
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause!
Famliy Guy Emperor Says,
"Something, something something, DARK SIDE!
Something, something, something COMPLETE!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHiUitciuJ8
:symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw: SPIKE GAYMER: not just a beatdown, a beatdown sung to the tune of "I Feel Pretty"!
A long long time ago, someone affiliated with Jesus (the malaligned side) objected to magic the gathering on the whole because of basically two cards (that they could read)... Unholy Strength, and Lord of the Pit. Wizards responded by removing the pentagram from the background of Unholy Strength, and discontinuing all Devils, Demons, and things demonic... (see demonic tutor, contract from below, demonic attorney) thus the end of Ante, and the best creature in magic, Lord of the Pit.
But in all seriousness, LOTP was a bomb in his day, especially with breeding pit, right up there with force of nature + COP green, and Shivan Dragon. The anti- demon thing must've stuck. A healthy fear of evangelists is good in the USA.
I'm still waiting for
3BB
Barney the Demon
Creature- Demon
Flying, Infect, Protection from Angels, Spirits, and half-truths
5/6
Until then, let it be known that evangelists have had their permanent effect on MTG.
And if I recall, this is why Horrors exist in Magic--Instead of that "Unholy Spirits from Hell" idea, you get "Eldrich Monstrosity" flavor.
Kagemaro, First to Suffer is pretty cool, since he's mass removal on a (Very large) stick. With Kaalia, you get a 1 mana mass removal that might not kill your very large demons, dragons, and angels (Yes, it will kill Kaalia herself, but hey, it's only one option).
Another plus is that he's good even without Kaalia.
Havoc Demon is just fine. He's a solid politics card, and a reasonable beater at that.
Abyssal Persecutor has a very useful (if niche) ability that stops effects like Helix Pinnacle (one opponent can't win the game because that means that your other opponents would lose, and they can't). Plus he's an aggressive beater.
Defilier of Souls. Woooow I had completely forgotten about that card until someone mentioned him. He's good.
Demonic Hordes is a very mean card, but I'd play it anyway.
You are right that there are not a lot of good demons, as compared to angels or dragons (dragons especially). But you at least have some solid playable ones.
how about Conspiracy set to Demons?
so that you can create Demon-Eldrazi... ^__^
Also with Conspiracy you can put into play Angels as Demons, Dragons as Angels and Demons as Dragons, so your opponents would be completely confused and unable to respond to your vicious schemes.
I have divined your fate. You shall find your nemesis, a catastrophic clash. Devastation, misery for all, the unleashing of horrible curses and ferocious powers. Ruin, such ruin that I dream each night of blessed peace, assured that the universe is in balance once more...
yeah, demon decks generally blow and while she's pretty good, she isn't going to make demons any better.
I'm eyeing her for my dragon and angel decks though.
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don't underestimate carnifax demon. proliferate is a fantastic mechanic in edh, every three color deck will run a number of planewalkers and other proliferat-able cards anyway, and the ability to spray -1/-1 counters all over other people's stuff while your 'walkers beef up is pretty powerful.
I would like to point out that you could totally use some of the Ninjitsu rats to pull the big fatties back to hand to reuse them. Some of them have some fun comes into play effects that would be fun to reuse.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
i'd play reiver demon just to be a 6/6 and in some circumstances be able to wrath when cast, not cheated of course. pestilence demon is a good choice for me though
Pit Spawn is the only one I would consider, as mentioned above. First Strike plus exile? That smells like awesome sauce to me. I'll even pay BB to keep him around, no problem.
Halo Hunter has a place if you know your playgroup well.
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Rules Advisor as of 4/23/10
Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
Quote from oranges2 »
This guy, would either eat up several turns worth of mana to get a slow permanent that relies on your already have some board presence (after wasting said mana), or dies without generating any advantage.
It's actually surprising how many quality demons there are out there. They kind of get shafted compared to Angels and Dragons, seemingly, but there's enough of them to not be a joke tribe.
Also, not actually a demon, dragon, or angel, but Erratic Portal will let you bounce your creatures in order to reuse them. This is actually really good, because it means you can Kaalia out Reiver Demon and Dread Cacodemon, and then get them back in hand to boardsweep with.
You have to be mindful when playing bunch of high mana cost cards. What happens when they kill your general or hinder him and you're stuck with a hand full of 7cmc spells.
then just play them? Presumably, if you build a deck around a bunch of high cost creatures, you plan on being able to cast them. Cheating them into play is a nice bonus unless you like playing wrong, methinks. Besides, Kaalia is a base 4 CMC and is in black. That's pretty resistant to repeated killings as well as being Hinder'd.
So, what are you guys looking at for your Kaalia decks? Does the lack of demons disappoint you as much as it does me?
Demon of Death's Gate is just fat and awesome.
Out side that, you can build sac engines for all the demons that require costs during upkeep.
Or Eon Hub, there's always Eon Hub...
But, yeah... most aren't too hot.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
so that you can create Demon-Eldrazi... ^__^
but yeah... the better Demons either have an Alt cost that makes them good, or is also aggressively costed...
I'll get back once I find something interesting...
TBA
Projects under construction:
Standard:
- Werewolves... O_o
Others
- Sliver Overlord EDH
- Riku
So far, I've got the following for my list:
Angels
Iona, Shield of Emeria
Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Akroma, Angel of Fury
Luminous Angel
Archangel of Strife
Angel of Despair
Deathless Angel
Twilight Shepherd
Baneslayer Angel
Dragons
Bogardan Hellkite
Kokusho
Ryusei
Yosei
Eternal Dragon
Imperial Hellkite
Hellkite Charger
Mana-Charged Dragon
Flameblast Dragon
Hoard-Smelter Dragon
Steel Hellkite
Hoarding Dragon
Demons
none >_<
But in all seriousness, LOTP was a bomb in his day, especially with breeding pit, right up there with force of nature + COP green, and Shivan Dragon. The anti- demon thing must've stuck. A healthy fear of evangelists is good in the USA.
I'm still waiting for
3BB
Barney the Demon
Creature- Demon
Flying, Infect, Protection from Angels, Spirits, and half-truths
5/6
Until then, let it be known that evangelists have had their permanent effect on MTG.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?u=18092
Woah, definitely missed that. He's going to slip in to my list for sure, then.
Aside from her, well... Havoc Demon is an okay "rattlesnake" card; players who attack into him tend to have their team die.
Carnifex demon is okay, not great but okay, and allows you to block creatures with infect and wither forever. It also screws up combat math.
Defiler of Souls is my favourite demon, by far. The Abyss on a 5/5 flyer that doesn't hurt you. Well it requires a little bit of build around, but yeah that guy is savage.
Kuro, Pitlord is okay here. His disgusting mana cost is irrelevant, and his upkeep ability is not particularly relevant either. You just sacrifice him next turn. But in the mean time you pay life liberally to either get in unblocked or just ruin your opponent's combat math. Shrink this blocker, shrink that attacker. Kill every utility creature. Seems fine.
Stronghold Overseer is just impossible to block. That counts for something, right?
Hellcarver Demon may have a ridiculous downside, but can have a potentially amazing pay-off. Seems awesome to connect with this dude I feel like you could drop kaalia on turn 2-4 depending on ramp, and with a deck full of dragons, and angels reveal between 1 and 6 fatties off the top of your deck. I kinda want to try to do this just to see if I can. And the look on my opponent's faces when it happens.
EDIT: And Demonic Hordes is an underrated bomb if you can pay for it. But where I play people ***** about lando so...
Famliy Guy Emperor Says,
"Something, something something, DARK SIDE!
Something, something, something COMPLETE!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHiUitciuJ8
:symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw:
SPIKE GAYMER: not just a beatdown, a beatdown sung to the tune of "I Feel Pretty"!
And if I recall, this is why Horrors exist in Magic--Instead of that "Unholy Spirits from Hell" idea, you get "Eldrich Monstrosity" flavor.
Another plus is that he's good even without Kaalia.
Thanks to Syndarion of Aeternal Studios for my sig!
Havoc Demon is just fine. He's a solid politics card, and a reasonable beater at that.
Abyssal Persecutor has a very useful (if niche) ability that stops effects like Helix Pinnacle (one opponent can't win the game because that means that your other opponents would lose, and they can't). Plus he's an aggressive beater.
Reiver Demon is just fine.
Defilier of Souls. Woooow I had completely forgotten about that card until someone mentioned him. He's good.
Demonic Hordes is a very mean card, but I'd play it anyway.
You are right that there are not a lot of good demons, as compared to angels or dragons (dragons especially). But you at least have some solid playable ones.
I play neat decks but not very well.
Also with Conspiracy you can put into play Angels as Demons, Dragons as Angels and Demons as Dragons, so your opponents would be completely confused and unable to respond to your vicious schemes.
Selenya, Dark Angel is not bad either, since you can safe her from wraths.
Thank you! You finally found a home for my Rakdos!
I'm eyeing her for my dragon and angel decks though.
WAnglesW
WUBRGThe BroodGRBUW
WUGAllymillGUW
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
:symu::symr::symg:Riku of Two Reflections (ETB toolbox)
:symw::symb::symr:Kaalia of the Vast Reanimator
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Karona's Proliferating Allies
Teferi, mage of Zhalfir
Rules Advisor as of 4/23/10
Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
Also, not actually a demon, dragon, or angel, but Erratic Portal will let you bounce your creatures in order to reuse them. This is actually really good, because it means you can Kaalia out Reiver Demon and Dread Cacodemon, and then get them back in hand to boardsweep with.
Made by Bookworm10
Kokusho, the Evening Star is banned in Commander.
http://mtgcommander.net/rules.php
Under the tap Deck construction.
Decks
Standard
-GRWerewolves
-WPorcelain Church
-GBuget Infect
-GBInfect
Modern
-GPrimal hunter baloth's
-GEldrazi
-BVampire
-BSwampwalk
-UCountermania
-UBig Blue
-UBLibrary Drain
-WGBTreefolk
-WGRNaya
-WUBEsper Flying
Comander
-GOmnath, Locus of Mana
-WBRHellfire's Blessing "Kaalia of the Vast"
then just play them? Presumably, if you build a deck around a bunch of high cost creatures, you plan on being able to cast them. Cheating them into play is a nice bonus unless you like playing wrong, methinks. Besides, Kaalia is a base 4 CMC and is in black. That's pretty resistant to repeated killings as well as being Hinder'd.
Made by Bookworm10