UW Control post rotation

  • #1
    What do y'all think of the possibility of a strong UW control deck post-rotation? With Mana Leak and Oblivion Ring getting reprinted, as well as Gideon Jura, Sun Titan, and Frost Titan, I think this deck might have a shot. Solemn Simulacrum seems like it would make a good blocker / card advantage generator (if only it was Sun Titan recurrable). It could survive to the late game with counters and removal, then win with Gideon, Consecrated Sphinx, either of the Titans, Vesner, or even the new sphinx with Fact of Fiction on it (which could be amazing at breaking late-game stalls like Consecrated Sphinx does).
  • #2
    It's what I'm going to be playing, probably with Venser and probably not with titans. I don't know that permission will be too viable after October unless INN gives us some isntant draw to replace Jace's Ingenuity. Either way, throwing Gideons, Day of Judgments, Oblivion Rings, Mana Leaks and large game enders into one deck will make something that's at the very least not bad.

    If I had to speculate on INN based off DotP, we'll be seeing a GW enchantment based PW in Ajani, a UG Land based walker in Kiora and a UR walker in... that other guy, so it's possible after October we may be running Bant or American Control.

    ^ Pure speculation there.

    EDIT: Oh yeah, Solemn Simulacrum plays very nicely with Venser as well, so, there's that for sure!
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  • #3
    I think that a UW tapout control deck could easily resurface post m12. Tapping out for powerful effects and using only a few instants like Mana Leak, Dismember/Into the Roil.

    Draw go is also an option using some combination of Mana Leak, Spell Pierce, Psychic Barrier, Negate, Cancel and Stoic Rebuttal for counters, Into the Roil, Dismember for removal and with Blue Sun's Zenith providing some great card draw and White Sun's Zenith an instant speed finisher. However Draw Go seems the weaker of the 2 since it can't take advantage of the great planeswalkers and creature based finishers as easily.

    Post Rotation is a different story since Innistrad could bring almost anything to the mix but at the same time UW Control loses Celestial Colonnade which was one of the best cards for either version of UW control. We'll have to wait and see.
    Last edited by Machius: 6/29/2011 12:42:24 PM


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  • #4
    Truth, I think tap-out will be the way to go, regardless of how much I love permission XD. I wonder if Archon of Justice and Baneslayer are worth considering here. I guess they're both pretty outclassed by the titans and Wurmcoil Engine.
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  • #5
    I think the odds of a strong :symu:/:symw: control post-rotation is very likely, if not inevitable.

    Of course we currently don't know what exactly will be contained within the set following M12. Even so the options already available in the Scar's block and the forth coming M12 seem to indicate the likely possibility of the above.
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  • #6
    Tappout was only viable as a decent deck from Patrick Chapin's original list.

    It needed Jace then and it still needs it now.

    Before Jace became printed U/W was a casual dream.
    Tappout also contained cards such as Martial Coup and Elspeth 1.0.

    That trifector of power which was subsidised by Day of Judgment really doesnt work when everything gets toned back by three notches in mana/power.
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  • #7
    After Chandra was spoiled I spent a lot of time thinking about how to build UWr control, and ultimately decided... not to. I'm starting to wonder if with the current card pool WR Control or even Grixis might actually become viable...
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  • #8
    Quote from MessyCorpse
    Tappout was only viable as a decent deck from Patrick Chapin's original list.

    It needed Jace then and it still needs it now.

    Before Jace became printed U/W was a casual dream.
    Tappout also contained cards such as Martial Coup and Elspeth 1.0.

    That trifector of power which was subsidised by Day of Judgment really doesnt work when everything gets toned back by three notches in mana/power.


    Tap-out control(the premise not the name) wasn't created by Chapin(although he did a good job making it competitive and introducing it to a newer format). Back as far as Mirrodin-Kamigawa standard there have been variations on the idea. UW control was also a viable force in Kamigawa-Ravnica standard(although UWB was the better control option), it just had a hiatus from tier 1 viability for a couple of years(like many archetypes do, red deck wins being the prime example of an archetype that keeps jumping between being competitive and uncompetitive).

    The basic idea of a Tap-Out control deck being that as opposed to traditional draw go control decks (that aim at playing a reactive long game answering spells 1 for 1 with counters and removal and gaining advantage through some sort of draw engine and/or instant speed draw spells until winning by forcing through a threat with full counter backup available) a tap-out control deck will use some of the same good answers but will happily tap-out in order to cast threats which they no will be superior to almost anything their opponent can do at the same stage of the game. In the Mirrodin-Kamigawa versions they would happily tapout for Vedalken Shackles, Meloku, the Clouded Mirror or Keiga, the Tidal Star(and sometimes March of the Machines against affinity prior to the bannings).

    Tap-out control as a deck style does not require any particular card(although Jace 2.0 was by far the best card ever printed for that style of deck) it just needs to be able to tap out for things which are going to be better than its opponents options. Day of Judgement, Gideon Jura, Wurmcoil Engine, Frost Titan, Consecrated Sphinx etc. fit the bill.


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  • #9
    Quote from Wolfwood
    After Chandra was spoiled I spent a lot of time thinking about how to build UWr control, and ultimately decided... not to. I'm starting to wonder if with the current card pool WR Control or even Grixis might actually become viable...


    I was actually thinking the exact same thing. I think I'll give UWr control a try once M12 hits because America is my favorite 3-color combo and I loved playing Lightning Angel Control back in the day.

    I like Timely Reinforcements as a possibility for a control deck, but maybe only in the sideboard. Stonehorn Dignitary is similar in that it will require testing, but it synergizes with Venser so amazingly well. Turn 2 Wall of Omens into turn 3 mana leak your stuff into turn 4 Dignitary into turn 5 Vesner gg? Solemn Simulacrum is also amazing with Venser, so I'm seeing a UW Venser control deck being possibly big. Maybe UWr for a splash of Chandra and Volt Charge or something.
  • #10
    Should I have stated "in recent times.." Beside that the deck needs card advantage. If you are going to play a tappout control deck why not just play emeria control...At least that has an engine.

    Jace, maintaining card parity or maintaining a soft lock in middle and providing easy transfer to the late game was the reason the deck worked. Now there is the reliance on Day of Judgement again, which is not an engine. By all means flog the dead horse.

    I have already tested U/W of several variations and probably one in every three games im fine until the mid game then if i either get stuck at five or draw bad i just get crumpled. its quite frustrating especially when vampires has an in build resiliance/snatch(discard) inherant to its design. I never has that lack of consistancy before. Divination is sadly not Jace :/
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  • #11
    It's what I'm going to be playing, probably with Venser and probably not with titans


    Titans do seem to have rather good synergy with Venser though.
  • #12
    As it is I'm considering 4 different lists for the July - October Standard (Or the August - October Standard if you're stranded on MTGO like I am...)

    UW Venser Tappout is proving to be very good, using a combination of Jace, Venser and Gideon rounding out the walker force and Frost Titan and Consecrated Sphinx attempting to end the game. I'm running Baneslayer Angels in the MB and Wurmcoils in the SB as I'm expecting an influx of red decks. I've gone from 7 counterspells, to 4, to zero, giving my 2cc slot to Spreading Seas and loving it.

    UWr is basically the same deck without BSA or Sphinx and with Chandra and either Volt Charge or Lightning Bolt. If I go with LB as my burn I'll be running Tezzeret's Gambit in that slot, and I think that might be better.

    don't know about WR control but it at least sounds promising. Chandra duplicating Pyroclasm and Slagstorm is fun, keeping the board nice and clean. Gideon, Chandra and maybe some angels win you the game while repeated board wipes and combinations of Tumble Magnet, Contagion Clasp/Engine and burn keep other threats in check, while keeping your walkers safe and pumped. Problem is the only real CA in the deck is gambit.

    Grixis could be fun but I haven't got to test it like I'd like to. Jace Beleren and Chandra for walkers in your average UB control shell... It's just not the same with Alara gone though Frown

    Sun Titan doesn't do it for me anymore, but Inferno Titan may see a spot if I go UWr, and Solemn Simulacrum exists in pretty much every build.
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