ok so i havent seen a thread for this guy yet, and he looks interesting, not good but interesting.
i can see you spending almost all your life, then busting out the Soul Conduit and swing for the win - thats about all i can see besides something dumb like Near-Death Experience.
idk, he's a 4/4 flyer for 4 and 4 life if you want, which cant be bad in draft but he's also an artifact which kinda stinks more than its good
i think the card is fantastic....except its unplayable with Jace in the format. buy a playset now while they're very cheap and get ready to rumble with them in October.
ignoring the Jace problem (since it is temporary) this is an extremely good red 4 drop. In most cases this will outperform other very good 4 drops in red. It lacks haste but it has flying which is often considerably better. the kicker here is that its get a built in firebreathing that is also a Hatred effect. if you connect with this against an opponent when you have more life then them you can end the game on the spot alot of the time. its a one shot killer, or at least potentially can be. thats exceptionally powerful for red.
the fact that it won't ALWAYS cost your 4 life is nice too. there will be many times when you don't cast it until later in the game anyway so you can preserve your life total if necessary. its flexible, which is good.
this is one to keep an eye on. very high objective power level, just waiting for a metagame that is ripe for it.
When you have 15 life, the dragon has a lot of reach. If they're one swing away from dead at 10 you're probably in a good position. Should be good in a mythic-red sort of deck.
let's say you played the dragon on turn 4 (paying 4 life)
turn 5: swing with dragon, pump for 5 using RRRRR, and then pump for an additional 5 (paying 10 life), swinging for 14.
in most red decks, 14 will be lethal on turn 5..... but let's say your opponent condemns it.
gain 14 life.
omg back on 20 life. yeah they remove your creature, but you pretty much just get back to starting life (or higher) if they condemn it.
ALTERNATE SCENARIO:
let's say you throw koth of the hammer into the mix, maybe even the new geosurge. you could play both koth and the dragon on turn 4 with koth's +1 untap ability... and then turn five swing for 20 damage. (RRRRR, -2 koth, RRRRR, pay 12 life, boom).
even if they condemn, you've got koth on the board, 24 life, and plenty of gas because you've only played one creature.
Except that Condemn doesn't give you life based on your creature's power, but on its toughness. So you'd only go back up four life. So Condemn would be a problem. Sadly.
I can't believe anyone is excited about this card. It is absolutely unplayable. I wouldn't even play her in LIMITED. Easily the worst walker printed since the green elf one. Absolutely terrible.
Why would anyone pump before the damage dealt step???
Obviously you declare attack with the Dragon, then if it ISNT condemned, then you pump
If you wait until the damage step damage would have already been dealt. If you pass priority and they choose to pass priority during the step after blockers have been declared damage will be dealt and they will take 4 before you have another chance to pump and make it have an effect on their life total.
Basically if you pass priority as the active player then they pass priority as the nonactive player you won't get it back before damage resolves.
Why would anyone pump before the damage dealt step???
Obviously you declare attack with the Dragon, then if it ISNT condemned, then you pump
Uh, what? You can't pump during the "damage dealt step." You have to pump him, your opponent will get priority, condemns him, and you lose your dragon.
Combat Phase:
1.) Beginning of Combat
2.) Declare Attackers
3.) Declare Blockers <---- This is when you should pump correct? By this time it is too late to Condemn
4.) Combat Damage
I can't believe anyone is excited about this card. It is absolutely unplayable. I wouldn't even play her in LIMITED. Easily the worst walker printed since the green elf one. Absolutely terrible.
Combat Phase:
1.) Beginning of Combat
2.) Declare Attackers
3.) Declare Blockers <---- This is when you should pump correct? By this time it is too late to Condemn
4.) Combat Damage
They can Condemn him during Declare Blockers. He is still an attacking creature.
Why would anyone pump before the damage dealt step???
Probably because they understand the rules, and know you can't play spells/abilities during the combat damage step before damage is dealt. Or at least since M10.
Obviously you declare attack with the Dragon, then if it ISNT condemned, then you pump
An "attacking" creature, once declared, is considered "attacking" for the entire duration of combat. There isn't a time in the combat phase where you can pump that can't be responded to with a condemn.
I can't believe anyone is excited about this card. It is absolutely unplayable. I wouldn't even play her in LIMITED. Easily the worst walker printed since the green elf one. Absolutely terrible.
Its pretty much an all-in "turn 5, you either answer this or you lose the game on the spot" dragon. He deals 16 damage on the attack, really. But yes, the format revolves around mass removal and bounces and control and counters, so he'll never see the light of day. But hes pretty much a modern day hatred.
He'll probably be outshined by immolating souleater, which is capable of turn 2 wins- something that actually can sneak past control. or at least *could*, but they have misstep now.
Immolating Souleater seems much more interesting to me...he is the best 2 mana firebreather(3 more exist,best of them being the lorwyn one which has haste) ...in a deck with kiln fiend, assault strobe and many many burn (to take care of blockers n stuff)it can be very lethal, not very safe, but it explodes when it happens..will def use in casual
too bad that he hasnt haste...you could drop him turn 4 with bushwacker for a ending attack though
If souleater or the dragon had haste...then they would really be -AWESOME- now they are just pretty good, but not enough
Erm... people seem to be forgetting that you can pump mana into it instead of life. So in essence it's a more versatile firebreathing. Fledgling Dragon was played in Sligh back in the day because it had a big body with evasion and a nice clock for just four mana. No reason to think this won't be any good. It can even be played in other colors like artifact aggro with Tempered Steels.
I agree Jace has to leave the format first so that it can shine to the fullest. Paying four mana and four life is just a bad trade, especially in this hyper aggressive environment. Squadron Hawk disappearing wouldn't hurt it either. Condemn isn't as big of an issue as any smart player won't pump it willy nilly. The possibility is there of course, which may be the pitfall for many.
i don't think we were forgetting its application.
it's just that the option to "half-hatred" as well as normal firebreath your creature means you can do ridiculously swingy turns, which up until this point, no other creatures have ever done.
oh my god you guys. play gitaxian probe with these phyrexian firebreathing guys...... what's that, no answer in your hand? good game. you have an answer? fine, i'll just swing with my vanilla flyer and spend my mana on a koth of the hammer or something.
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on an "unrelated to the mechanics of the card" angle:
i frickin' LOVE the artwork/colour theme/coloured artifact border/whole damn aesthetic quality of this card.
i scrolled through the entire spoiler, and out of all of it, THIS was the card that my eye went "zip" straight to and the visual part of my brain said "wow. nice magic card".
the card text is almost meaningless at this point. i'm going to buy 4 of these, i'm going to make them work in a deck and i'm going to play the heck out of them in my casual group.
love it so much.
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the thing about it is- if it had haste or shroud or whatever removal dodging- it would be horrendously overpowered and everyone would run 4x in every decklist in standard. And because it *doesn't* dodge removal, its mostly useless. It can hit for 16 damage turn 5, but only after your opponent untaps, gets all the chance to remove it, then gets the chance to both remove it and peg you a bunch of life.
But yeah, @ above- gitaxian probe was one of the clutch cards in the R/B kiln fiend immolator deck list I posted in the other thread. Between that, mental misstep and inquisition, you have a heck of a lot of ways to stop people from interrupting your combo. And it can be fatal on turn 2. So yeah, the poor dragon is getting outshined (its a dragon, so we saw this coming from a mile off)
Seems ok... I mean I can't see this guy being too great in standard.. I guess the fact that you can just pay 2 life to pump him is kool, but it really isn't that great..
Thought Sarkhan the Mad would like a 4-drop dragon! Play this dude, then play sarkhan. After that, lotta options. You could firebreath all up in their face without even attacking :3.
I pump him once, opponent gets priority.
he passes it back, pump resolves
I pump him once, opponent gets prority
he passes it back, pump resolves
... I pump him one less time than my opponent thinks I will
he passes it back
I pass, combat damage is dealt.
It works like that, right?
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-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
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It doesn't work like that at all. If both players pass priority in a row then the step ends and advances to the next step. The only time you can do what you've described is during your main phase, because the main phase doesn't end until the active player says it does. Every other step advances automatically after both players pass priority.
So you can pump your dragon one at a time ONLY during your main-phase. Then your opponent can just use a removal spell on it when you announce beginning of combat. There's no way to just abuse priority to make your opponent unable to respond to your pumping.
If it had haste, it will be be near a power level of a mythic, and everyone will pack this, since it will pass the Jace test, making SoWaP more important in the meta.
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i can see you spending almost all your life, then busting out the Soul Conduit and swing for the win - thats about all i can see besides something dumb like Near-Death Experience.
idk, he's a 4/4 flyer for 4 and 4 life if you want, which cant be bad in draft but he's also an artifact which kinda stinks more than its good
anyone else have some thoughts on this junker?
ignoring the Jace problem (since it is temporary) this is an extremely good red 4 drop. In most cases this will outperform other very good 4 drops in red. It lacks haste but it has flying which is often considerably better. the kicker here is that its get a built in firebreathing that is also a Hatred effect. if you connect with this against an opponent when you have more life then them you can end the game on the spot alot of the time. its a one shot killer, or at least potentially can be. thats exceptionally powerful for red.
the fact that it won't ALWAYS cost your 4 life is nice too. there will be many times when you don't cast it until later in the game anyway so you can preserve your life total if necessary. its flexible, which is good.
this is one to keep an eye on. very high objective power level, just waiting for a metagame that is ripe for it.
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actually it really doesn't.
let's say you played the dragon on turn 4 (paying 4 life)
turn 5: swing with dragon, pump for 5 using RRRRR, and then pump for an additional 5 (paying 10 life), swinging for 14.
in most red decks, 14 will be lethal on turn 5..... but let's say your opponent condemns it.
gain 14 life.
omg back on 20 life. yeah they remove your creature, but you pretty much just get back to starting life (or higher) if they condemn it.
ALTERNATE SCENARIO:
let's say you throw koth of the hammer into the mix, maybe even the new geosurge. you could play both koth and the dragon on turn 4 with koth's +1 untap ability... and then turn five swing for 20 damage. (RRRRR, -2 koth, RRRRR, pay 12 life, boom).
even if they condemn, you've got koth on the board, 24 life, and plenty of gas because you've only played one creature.
Obviously you declare attack with the Dragon, then if it ISNT condemned, then you pump
If you wait until the damage step damage would have already been dealt. If you pass priority and they choose to pass priority during the step after blockers have been declared damage will be dealt and they will take 4 before you have another chance to pump and make it have an effect on their life total.
Basically if you pass priority as the active player then they pass priority as the nonactive player you won't get it back before damage resolves.
Uh, what? You can't pump during the "damage dealt step." You have to pump him, your opponent will get priority, condemns him, and you lose your dragon.
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Combat Phase:
1.) Beginning of Combat
2.) Declare Attackers
3.) Declare Blockers <---- This is when you should pump correct? By this time it is too late to Condemn
4.) Combat Damage
They can Condemn him during Declare Blockers. He is still an attacking creature.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Probably because they understand the rules, and know you can't play spells/abilities during the combat damage step before damage is dealt. Or at least since M10.
An "attacking" creature, once declared, is considered "attacking" for the entire duration of combat. There isn't a time in the combat phase where you can pump that can't be responded to with a condemn.
If he sticks, you win on turn 5.
▲
▲ ▲
He'll probably be outshined by immolating souleater, which is capable of turn 2 wins- something that actually can sneak past control. or at least *could*, but they have misstep now.
too bad that he hasnt haste...you could drop him turn 4 with bushwacker for a ending attack though
If souleater or the dragon had haste...then they would really be -AWESOME- now they are just pretty good, but not enough
edit: clan iraq already wrote about this, damn
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i don't think we were forgetting its application.
it's just that the option to "half-hatred" as well as normal firebreath your creature means you can do ridiculously swingy turns, which up until this point, no other creatures have ever done.
oh my god you guys. play gitaxian probe with these phyrexian firebreathing guys...... what's that, no answer in your hand? good game. you have an answer? fine, i'll just swing with my vanilla flyer and spend my mana on a koth of the hammer or something.
i frickin' LOVE the artwork/colour theme/coloured artifact border/whole damn aesthetic quality of this card.
i scrolled through the entire spoiler, and out of all of it, THIS was the card that my eye went "zip" straight to and the visual part of my brain said "wow. nice magic card".
the card text is almost meaningless at this point. i'm going to buy 4 of these, i'm going to make them work in a deck and i'm going to play the heck out of them in my casual group.
love it so much.
But yeah, @ above- gitaxian probe was one of the clutch cards in the R/B kiln fiend immolator deck list I posted in the other thread. Between that, mental misstep and inquisition, you have a heck of a lot of ways to stop people from interrupting your combo. And it can be fatal on turn 2. So yeah, the poor dragon is getting outshined (its a dragon, so we saw this coming from a mile off)
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I pump him once, opponent gets priority.
he passes it back, pump resolves
I pump him once, opponent gets prority
he passes it back, pump resolves
... I pump him one less time than my opponent thinks I will
he passes it back
I pass, combat damage is dealt.
It works like that, right?
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
So you can pump your dragon one at a time ONLY during your main-phase. Then your opponent can just use a removal spell on it when you announce beginning of combat. There's no way to just abuse priority to make your opponent unable to respond to your pumping.
If it had haste, it will be be near a power level of a mythic, and everyone will pack this, since it will pass the Jace test, making SoWaP more important in the meta.
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