1: People keep talking about the titans as if they're staying. Yes, they might stay in standard with M12, but let's assume they rotate out. What's to stop a WSZ/Norn/M. Crusader deck from being on top? White is one of the most balanced colors in standard. It can remove any targetable threat and has lifegain to keep it steady if necessary. Throw in some green for ramp/fog effects and you're looking at a very viable late game card.
2: It shines for every "non-competitive" format. Wizards is being nice and balanced right now and printing FUN and FLAVORFUL cards for us. Why is this necessarily a bad thing? Why would it be bad if Scars + Innistrad brought out a slower standard than what we have now anyway?
3: Look at that card. Just read it a few times, and then think. Isn't that the epitome of a Legend? It's presence gives your creatures strength, morale, and a leading creature. Not only that, but it does this while demoralizing your opponent's guys. It's pretty awesome if you look at it in that light.
My verdict on Elesh Norn as an (overall) card: 8.5/10 The only thing that could make it better (more healthy) is if it was in a different format when it came out.
It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
I think she could be pretty powerful alongside eldrazi spawn, *cough* Awakening Zone*cough*...
I mean seriously though,she could have a home in a seudo-eldrazi build.
She's a minor wrath, she bumps your tokens, and with ramp youre not playing her on turn 7 anyways
I was flirting with the idea of making a Doran EDH deck, which would be my first EDH deck. After seeing this sexy bomb, I'm pretty much decided. Elesh is a sparkling "Fun" magic card. Remember when magic cards used to be fun, not the "I counter and remove until I can play a titan and win." I'm glad lots of people are psyched for a 7 cmc. It seems like anything that is not a titan is considered garbage. Let's have fun with this card everyone!
give all your infect creatures +2/+2 seems pretty OP to me...
as far as everyone saying shes acceptable to removal, aren't all the titans? Don't be an idiot when you play the card, easy as that.
In reality i can see her being played in standard possibly W/B infect.
The ability to one side board wipe and juice up infect creatures. GG?
Yes she is 7 mana, but she's in a color that can stall very well. I remember when the titans were being spoiled, alot of people thought they were all trash since they cost 6 mana, and that you'd likey be dead by the time you resolved any of them. Look at what happened, titans ended up defining the format. I don't think 1 more mana will make a ton of difference. Sure you may not be able to land Elesh Norn by turn 4, but that is because she stablizes the board state in your favor. If she was 5-6 mana, she would be considerably weaker.
Also, they have said that Action (New Phyrexia) will not have Infect in it.
No they don't. This is some bizarre invention from posters on this board. JtMS defines the format. The swords define the format. But most DEFINITELY not the titans.
Anyways, when was the last time you saw a 7 casting cost white creature being played in standard effectively???
Akroma (she costs 8, btw)? That's quite a long time ago and it was at a time when weathered wayfarer was worth like 20$. In other words: a format with extremely underwhelming creatures that very very slow.
This card is terrible outside of casual formats. But you know, this is perfectly fine right? There's a lot of cards I wouldnt play in standard that I love playing in casual formats.
But let's stop kidding ourselves, this wont be played. Just like So many huge ass creatures back in Alara that everyone was fawning over didn't get played.
Throw as much land ramp as possible, stall tactics, bust this lady out and smack them all to hell with your lands. Throw in some Terra Eternal to make sure your opponent doesn't slow you down.
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To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
No they don't. This is some bizarre invention from posters on this board. JtMS defines the format. The swords define the format. But most DEFINITELY not the titans.
Anyways, when was the last time you saw a 7 casting cost white creature being played in standard effectively???
Akroma (she costs 8, btw)? That's quite a long time ago and it was at a time when weathered wayfarer was worth like 20$. In other words: a format with extremely underwhelming creatures that very very slow.
This card is terrible outside of casual formats. But you know, this is perfectly fine right? There's a lot of cards I wouldnt play in standard that I love playing in casual formats.
But let's stop kidding ourselves, this wont be played. Just like So many huge ass creatures back in Alara that everyone was fawning over didn't get played.
Eh, it's not so black and white.
This creature effectively seals the game in any control deck. Yes it costs 7, but once it lands, opponent's creatures basically can't do a thing, and your creatures all become bombs. Elesh actually beats up on all the other titans, as well as Avenger of Zendikar (plant tokens die upon resolution). Giving opponent's creatures -2-2 is no laughing matter..
In a ramp deck with weenies, it actually pays you for playing mana dorks, since they all become 2/3 creatures or 3/3 creatures, while it'll also kill opponent's creatures.
Does it die to removal? Yeah, but depending on your opponent's deck, it'll probably effect the board before they can even play their removal spell.
I like Elesh Norn. She definitely has potential, but I'm not expecting her to blow up standard right now.
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Find me online - I'm on Cockatrice * Tag - Badd B - Or on MTGO - Tag - Cbus05
Just saying but you can kill her w/ 2 cards and 3 mana. Combust & a random "shock" Burn spell.
Although you're definitely right, Combust doesn't see a whole lot of play. And I don't think it would so that red could 2 for one itself to kill Elesh Norn.
Also, about this being an auto-win against red unless you are in burn range. You are likely going to be in burn range by the time Elesh Norn hits the field due to her mana cost of 7. But once on the field, there isn't a lot that can be done about her for red besides 2 or 3 for 1ing yourself. Unlike the Titans, you can't attack through her since she will kill all of your creatures (unlike say, Frost Titan who can only shut down two of your creatures when it comes out).
This creature effectively seals the game in any control deck. Yes it costs 7, but once it lands, opponent's creatures basically can't do a thing, and your creatures all become bombs. Elesh actually beats up on all the other titans, as well as Avenger of Zendikar (plant tokens die upon resolution). Giving opponent's creatures -2-2 is no laughing matter..
In a ramp deck with weenies, it actually pays you for playing mana dorks, since they all become 2/3 creatures or 3/3 creatures, while it'll also kill opponent's creatures.
Does it die to removal? Yeah, but depending on your opponent's deck, it'll probably effect the board before they can even play their removal spell.
I like Elesh Norn. She definitely has potential, but I'm not expecting her to blow up standard right now.
You're contradicting yourself: ramp deck with weenies, you play it in a control deck[...]all your creatures become bombs
control doesnt play creatures unless its caw-blade and cawblade doesnt get to 7 mana...especially for this kind of dude.
had to jump on this the second i saw it
i love this card, so sick how white has a black-like lord that is, in the current standard environment, ridiculously easy to ramp into
id love to hear reactions to this, she is legendary - none of the generals will be THAT amazing outside EDH
This creature effectively seals the game in any control deck. Yes it costs 7, but once it lands, opponent's creatures basically can't do a thing, and your creatures all become bombs. Elesh actually beats up on all the other titans, as well as Avenger of Zendikar (plant tokens die upon resolution). Giving opponent's creatures -2-2 is no laughing matter..
In a ramp deck with weenies, it actually pays you for playing mana dorks, since they all become 2/3 creatures or 3/3 creatures, while it'll also kill opponent's creatures.
Does it die to removal? Yeah, but depending on your opponent's deck, it'll probably effect the board before they can even play their removal spell.
I like Elesh Norn. She definitely has potential, but I'm not expecting her to blow up standard right now.
You're contradicting yourself: ramp deck with weenies, you play it in a control deck[...]all your creatures become bombs
control doesnt play creatures unless its caw-blade and cawblade doesnt get to 7 mana...especially for this kind of dude.
You're right, ramp decks aren't made with lowcastingcostcreaturecards. Nope, only rampant growths, cultivate and harrow.
You're also totally right about the second half. The ONLY control deck that COULD exist is Caw-blade. And there could never be a version of that deck that plays anything that gets released in new sets. UB Tapout is here... I'm sorry, I meant UW Caw-blade, er.... UWR sparkblade. Yeah that. That one that needs no innovation or new cards from newly released sets. That control deck.
One more thing about your snideness. There are things in the English language, they are called paragraph breaks. They represent a change in thought. For example, I separated your comment about ramp decks and control decks into two separate paragraphs because they required separate responses. This paragraph informs you that the original post did the same thing when he separated his thoughts about this being used in a control deck and then about using it in a weenie deck. They are not the same thought, and therefore not a contradiction. It could be played in either deck.
Asking people to remove quotes in their signatures is tyranny! If I can't say something just because someone's feelings are hurt then no one would ever be able to say anything! Political correctness is stupid.
Oh, the classic "it dies to spot removal" argument. I guess all of the expensive, fat creatures that have an immediate impact on the board should be indestructible or have shroud.
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GOD DAMN FIGHT THE MAN, MAN!!! GRRRRRRR REBEL MAN YEAH!!! GET OUT YOUR TIE-DYE T-SHIRTS AND SOME ATOGS WITH PEACE SIGNS MAN! YEAH! LETS GROW OUR HAIR OUT LONG AND COLOR ON OUR MAGIC CARDS WITH SILVER SHARPIES TO REBEL! YEEEEAH!
Viable dont know, but putting on to the battlefied off of a spectral proccession fueled windbrisk heights, then flipping a mosswort bridge in response to removal seems fun for a play.
Don't you see that the whole aim of Moderators is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make infractions literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. Every concept that can ever be needed, will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meanings rubbed out and forgotten.
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1: People keep talking about the titans as if they're staying. Yes, they might stay in standard with M12, but let's assume they rotate out. What's to stop a WSZ/Norn/M. Crusader deck from being on top? White is one of the most balanced colors in standard. It can remove any targetable threat and has lifegain to keep it steady if necessary. Throw in some green for ramp/fog effects and you're looking at a very viable late game card.
2: It shines for every "non-competitive" format. Wizards is being nice and balanced right now and printing FUN and FLAVORFUL cards for us. Why is this necessarily a bad thing? Why would it be bad if Scars + Innistrad brought out a slower standard than what we have now anyway?
3: Look at that card. Just read it a few times, and then think. Isn't that the epitome of a Legend? It's presence gives your creatures strength, morale, and a leading creature. Not only that, but it does this while demoralizing your opponent's guys. It's pretty awesome if you look at it in that light.
My verdict on Elesh Norn as an (overall) card: 8.5/10 The only thing that could make it better (more healthy) is if it was in a different format when it came out.
I love loosing two cards relevant to my strategy to one card.
Modern - Green & Taxes:symw::symg:
Standard - Illusions:symu::symb:
People never complained about Imprint in Mirrodin like they do now-a-days. Infact, people LOVED playing cards with Imprint.
I mean seriously though,she could have a home in a seudo-eldrazi build.
She's a minor wrath, she bumps your tokens, and with ramp youre not playing her on turn 7 anyways
Hmm yeah good idea. Another good lord for doran.
give all your infect creatures +2/+2 seems pretty OP to me...
as far as everyone saying shes acceptable to removal, aren't all the titans? Don't be an idiot when you play the card, easy as that.
In reality i can see her being played in standard possibly W/B infect.
The ability to one side board wipe and juice up infect creatures. GG?
No they don't. This is some bizarre invention from posters on this board. JtMS defines the format. The swords define the format. But most DEFINITELY not the titans.
Anyways, when was the last time you saw a 7 casting cost white creature being played in standard effectively???
Akroma (she costs 8, btw)? That's quite a long time ago and it was at a time when weathered wayfarer was worth like 20$. In other words: a format with extremely underwhelming creatures that very very slow.
This card is terrible outside of casual formats. But you know, this is perfectly fine right? There's a lot of cards I wouldnt play in standard that I love playing in casual formats.
But let's stop kidding ourselves, this wont be played. Just like So many huge ass creatures back in Alara that everyone was fawning over didn't get played.
I like Turtles
No, it's "Shake" (aka Innistrad) that won't have infect.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Nature's revolt, Natural Affinity, Living Plane.
Throw as much land ramp as possible, stall tactics, bust this lady out and smack them all to hell with your lands. Throw in some Terra Eternal to make sure your opponent doesn't slow you down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
http://alteredartmagic.blogspot.com/search/label/Nicolarre
or in my Humble Alter Gallery at DeviantArt: http://nicolarre.deviantart.com/gallery/
Eh, it's not so black and white.
This creature effectively seals the game in any control deck. Yes it costs 7, but once it lands, opponent's creatures basically can't do a thing, and your creatures all become bombs. Elesh actually beats up on all the other titans, as well as Avenger of Zendikar (plant tokens die upon resolution). Giving opponent's creatures -2-2 is no laughing matter..
In a ramp deck with weenies, it actually pays you for playing mana dorks, since they all become 2/3 creatures or 3/3 creatures, while it'll also kill opponent's creatures.
Does it die to removal? Yeah, but depending on your opponent's deck, it'll probably effect the board before they can even play their removal spell.
I like Elesh Norn. She definitely has potential, but I'm not expecting her to blow up standard right now.
Although you're definitely right, Combust doesn't see a whole lot of play. And I don't think it would so that red could 2 for one itself to kill Elesh Norn.
Also, about this being an auto-win against red unless you are in burn range. You are likely going to be in burn range by the time Elesh Norn hits the field due to her mana cost of 7. But once on the field, there isn't a lot that can be done about her for red besides 2 or 3 for 1ing yourself. Unlike the Titans, you can't attack through her since she will kill all of your creatures (unlike say, Frost Titan who can only shut down two of your creatures when it comes out).
You're contradicting yourself: ramp deck with weenies, you play it in a control deck[...]all your creatures become bombs
control doesnt play creatures unless its caw-blade and cawblade doesnt get to 7 mana...especially for this kind of dude.
Doran says hi
I want to build a token deck for sure with her.
Lands WUBG
EDH:
Doran WBG
You're right, ramp decks aren't made with low casting cost creature cards. Nope, only rampant growths, cultivate and harrow.
You're also totally right about the second half. The ONLY control deck that COULD exist is Caw-blade. And there could never be a version of that deck that plays anything that gets released in new sets. UB Tapout is here... I'm sorry, I meant UW Caw-blade, er.... UWR sparkblade. Yeah that. That one that needs no innovation or new cards from newly released sets. That control deck.
One more thing about your snideness. There are things in the English language, they are called paragraph breaks. They represent a change in thought. For example, I separated your comment about ramp decks and control decks into two separate paragraphs because they required separate responses. This paragraph informs you that the original post did the same thing when he separated his thoughts about this being used in a control deck and then about using it in a weenie deck. They are not the same thought, and therefore not a contradiction. It could be played in either deck.
Oh, the classic "it dies to spot removal" argument. I guess all of the expensive, fat creatures that have an immediate impact on the board should be indestructible or have shroud.