Mirran or Phyrexian Crusader?

  • #1
    So, Mirran is at preorder on SCG at $2.49, Phyrexian is on preorder at $2.99. Obviously Ben Bleiweiss has decided to come down in favor of the infector. I'm not so quick to agree. I'd like to see what the community here has to say.

    Mirran Crusader at SCG

    Phyrexian Crusader at SCG

    My opinions are related to a few categories.

    Removal:
    Mirran is vulnerable to burn and being bounced by Jace.
    Phyrexian is vulnerable to Smother, Grasp of Darkness, Consume the Meek, and being bounced by Jace.

    Combat:
    Mirran kills any Vampire he fights. With a single point of power pump (see below) he kills Green Giant and doesn't die there either (though his controller might get stepped on for 3 or 4, and Valakut may still fry him...). Mirran also blocks and kills Elves for several turns (until they get big enough through lord pumps to ignore him). Black Knight still gets past him and if anyone runs Bloodwitch he can't do much about her. He can become indestructible.

    Phyrexian kills anything he fights in RDW. He blocks mountains all day and swings through into Koth. He blocks any white weenie on the ground except Mirran or White Knight, and kills all of them except a fully leveled Student. He swings past Walls of Omens and Soldiers as if they aren't there. He blocks Gideon, though he still can't hurt him (he can -2 him on the attack, though, and can't be assassinated by the white walker). With some power pump Phyrexian is also a fairly rapid clock, though he sadly is immune to Assault Strobe.

    Support:
    Mirran Crusader has Knight Exemplar, offering +1/+1 and indestructibility. Indestructibility shores up Mirran's one remaining weakness, red burn. With that taken care of, Mirran only has to fear Condemn etc.

    Phyrexian Crusader has Hand of the Praetors, offering +1/+1.

    Overall, I'm still leaning towards Mirran in a heavily knight-based deck. Infect at the moment seems to be a bit schizo, with most of its cards begging to be put in a lightning-fast aggro strategy and a few (Hand, Phyr Crusader, Clasp / Engine) begging to be put in a slow, grinding, inevitability-based aggro control type strategy. If MBS prints more cards suitable for the slow, grinding build, then I could definitely get behind the Phyrexian Crusader. At the moment though, I don't think he fundamentally speeds up the Infect deck by much. I suppose you can replace Cystbearer with him and you're a bit more evasive.

    Compare to Mirran in a Knight based deck: he can gain indestructibility, and he has two sources of +1/+1 pumps (Knight Exemplar and Honor of the Pure); all I can say is that +1/+1 seems more effective when put on a double striker. And lo and behold, the Knight Deck already has a double striker available - fully leveled Student. Combine with Goldmane for +1/+1 counters and you have a real machine capable of swinging with a 3/3 Mirran Crusader on turn 4 fairly reliably, possibly even 4/4. This puts black and green decks on a murderously short clock and could be very bad for red decks caught without a bolt, as well.

    So I lean towards the Mirran. I'm curious to hear others' thoughts, though!
    "Extenuating circumstance to be mentioned on Judgment Day: None of us asked to be born in the first place."
    --Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., who is up in Heaven now. EDH WUBRG Child of Alara WUBRG BGW Karador, Ghost Chieftain BGW RGW Mayael the Anima RGW WUB Sharuum the Hegemon WUB RWU Zedruu the Greathearted RWU
    WB Ghost Council of Orzhova WB RG Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B G Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer G *click the general's name to see my list!*
  • #2
    The real question is:

    What is more likely to see play: Infect with black, or "Knights".
    Mirran Crusader (MC) is good for White Wheenie, but I don't think that archetype is currently strong. In Knights, there would be Exemplar and Student, and that's about it. At the moment. The protection of MC is okay.
    Phyrexian Crusader is good for Infect, which will be getting cards for sure in MBS - in contrary to Knights. Plus, there already are some extremely strong infect cards like Groundswell and Vines of Vastwood and ofc Hands (what's even better is invigorate for pauper, but that's like a secret tech...). Besides, the PhyrC is a phenomenal Aggro-hoser bc of the mix of infect and first strike. I think it will take some time until people realize how godlike that combination actually is. Therefore, he will see play in sb in non-infect decks, most likely control. Its prored and prowhite is very relevant.

    The current prices are a gamble on how MBS will turn out. Seems like some people think infect and UB control will be strong.

    Personally, I think Phyrexian Crusader is better because of infect+first strike and the current cards. If there where more Knights, I'd lean towards Mirran. And I think he'll gain value after Zendikar rotates - especially while m11 is still in. I'm curious what happens when we have Mirrodin 2.0 + m12 + NextSet, though. Aggro decks tend to take over the decks to beat for a short time, and that will be the point when the real fight between WW and Poison begins.
  • #3
    The Phyrexian will be be a game winner because of Sword of Body and Mind.

    Protection from White, Blue, Red and Green PLUS you're black so no targeting from half of the black removal spells.

    SoBaM is good on it's own to boost recursionary creatures (reassemblying skeleton and a certain vampire) found in black.
  • #4
    The real question is:

    What is more likely to see play: Infect with black, or "Knights".


    Exactly. Both cards are good cards looking for a home. My concern is that we don't know yet whether post-MBS Infect will remain a speed-aggro strategy (in which case Crusader is only a marginal upgrade to your 3-drop slot, seeing as how it's more evasive but less splashable than Cystbearer), or whether Infect will become a sort of aggro-control strategy in which I feel the Crusader would be far stronger.

    Mirran Crusader (MC) is good for White Wheenie, but I don't think that archetype is currently strong. In Knights, there would be Exemplar and Student, and that's about it.


    I'd like to introduce you to a card from Alpha, my good old friend White Knight. Wink First strike is still good against red and pro: black is still good overall. With indestructibility he's hard to get rid of. It's true that there aren't a ton more, though. There's Kemba's Skyguard and Cloud Crusader that fly, and some probably-unplayable leveler trash. But I'm not ruling out the possibility of some decent enemy-color fixing in MBS (wedge trilands, WotC? pleeeeeeease? ^__^), which would allow for a deck combining both Crusaders in one! And Arrogant Bloodlord would go GREAT with Knight Exemplar!

    (snip)
    Besides, the PhyrC is a phenomenal Aggro-hoser bc of the mix of infect and first strike. I think it will take some time until people realize how godlike that combination actually is. Therefore, he will see play in sb in non-infect decks, most likely control. Its prored and prowhite is very relevant.

    The current prices are a gamble on how MBS will turn out. Seems like some people think infect and UB control will be strong.

    Personally, I think Phyrexian Crusader is better because of infect+first strike and the current cards. If there where more Knights, I'd lean towards Mirran. And I think he'll gain value after Zendikar rotates - especially while m11 is still in. I'm curious what happens when we have Mirrodin 2.0 + m12 + NextSet, though. Aggro decks tend to take over the decks to beat for a short time, and that will be the point when the real fight between WW and Poison begins.


    Good points all!

    Quote from ColonelCoo
    The Phyrexian will be be a game winner because of Sword of Body and Mind.

    Protection from White, Blue, Red and Green PLUS you're black so no targeting from half of the black removal spells.

    SoBaM is good on it's own to boost recursionary creatures (reassemblying skeleton and a certain vampire) found in black.


    Seems nice, but what's wrong with SoBaM on a Mirran Crusader? Sure, one of the protections is overlapping but pro BUG still gets past 3/5 of the creatures in the game, hits for 8 (!), then mills 20 and makes 2 wolves. Double strike has never been this cheap or evasive! Smile

    Edit: note that Grasp and Smother will both still kill a Phyrexian Crusader with SoBaM equipped. Wink
    Last edited by Kasreyn: 12/18/2010 6:17:34 PM
    "Extenuating circumstance to be mentioned on Judgment Day: None of us asked to be born in the first place."
    --Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., who is up in Heaven now. EDH WUBRG Child of Alara WUBRG BGW Karador, Ghost Chieftain BGW RGW Mayael the Anima RGW WUB Sharuum the Hegemon WUB RWU Zedruu the Greathearted RWU
    WB Ghost Council of Orzhova WB RG Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B G Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer G *click the general's name to see my list!*
  • #5
    Good points.

    - White Knight: Sadly, he is not as good as he was in Alpha. The power level of other creatures increases from set to set, while he stays the same. It's a shame.

    - SoBaM: I can't decide who's the worthy bearer of that equipment.
  • #6
    I think the real forward thinking view is this:


    Both are bad.


    Not awful, not jank, not unuseable- but not whatsoever worth hype. The white one falls into the notorious white 3 CMC slot, 1WW no less to make splashing impossible. White didn't run transcendent master despite him being made of sunshine and kickassipops. What makes people think they'll run yet another 'above the curve' weenie in the same slot? White loves its 5 CMC finishers and 2 CMC weenies- 3 just tends to get left out. Unless its going to have some immediate effect on the board or generate some card advantage, he really doesn't break any new power level ground and can't convince people to run him.


    The black knight is tied directly to infect archetype. Isn't that enough said? Hes unusable outside of infect, and infect is unusable, and all signs point to infect remaining unusable. He can be as aggressive as he wants in a vacuum, but unless the other infect cards exist which currently do not- he'll be worthless.
    PSA- With BNG having many 'opponents choice' effects and not just in tribute, it helps to know how to evaluate such mechanics:

    Whenever a mechanic gives an opponent his choice of one of multiple options, the ability is overall worth less than the least of these options, made worse by how different the options are and better by your ability to manipulate this choice. In most cases you have no meaningful way to influence your opponents choice.
  • #7
    Unless we get a lot of backup for either in MBS it seems unlikely that we will see them in constructed. They are good but do not seem to be quite good enough as things stand.

    Ignoring that though I find that I am much more in favour of the Mirran Crusader. Doublestrike is just far too nice especially since in white there are so many ways to give it +1/+1 through Exemplar or enchantments or what-have-you which may as well be +2/+2.
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  • #8
    Anyone sees extreme potential for MC in an equipment-supported Weenie?
    It's more fun to slay the dragon, than it is to be the dragon, even though the dragon has more power.


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  • #9
    Quote from Ryder052
    Anyone sees extreme potential for MC in an equipment-supported Weenie?


    Sadly there is no Jitte in Standard anymore. Paladin en-Vec plus Jitte was almost game over in any aggro match ups back than. Sword of Body and Mind is a nice card, but I think not powerful enough. Or it takes too long to set the whole thing up to be more precisely.



    Crusader seem to be more like a sideboard card to me to hold possible poisondeck in check, even if there are no tier decks of it so far. And I still doubt there will be any in constructed unless WOTC prints several overpowered poison creatures in the next sets.

    In the end they might drop in price slightly to 1.5$ because there will be a demand for them on someones kitchen table. No offense here.
  • #10
    Its a bit of a waste getting pro-blue on him since he already has the pro-green. And it still doesn't save him from spot removal, which was already the huge issues with 3-drops in white. So eh, seeing as both the 2/2 token and 10 mill would be rather pointless (ok, maybe for chump blocking in a race its nice) but TBH I'd rather just equip a darksteel axe

    But yeah, its still not very much what constructed wants. 3 CMC nonsplashable is too tricky a slot
    PSA- With BNG having many 'opponents choice' effects and not just in tribute, it helps to know how to evaluate such mechanics:

    Whenever a mechanic gives an opponent his choice of one of multiple options, the ability is overall worth less than the least of these options, made worse by how different the options are and better by your ability to manipulate this choice. In most cases you have no meaningful way to influence your opponents choice.
  • #11
    Quote from clan_iraq
    all signs point to infect remaining unusable. He can be as aggressive as he wants in a vacuum, but unless the other infect cards exist which currently do not- he'll be worthless.


    Which signs point to infect remaining unusable? Four cards have been spoiled...
    WBRSucker PunchRBW
    BRGotta Get or Get GotRB

    (Avatar courtesy of Heylookitsamoose)
  • #12
    Mirran puts the opponent as near to death as phyrexian with each strike, but benefits from boosts much better. It is also compatible with much more play styles, when Phyrexian needs infect to be played. Against creatures, infect is nice for protecting your own guys from the opponent's creatures by shrinking them before they strike, but Double strike gets rid of bigger creatures much faster.
    To me there's no question about it: Mirran Crusader is much better now. Phyrexian would need an extremely favorable metagame, when Mirran is just your standard white beater.

    @Skittles: Indeed, but since they are terribly afraid to make anything near overpowered in THIS mirrodin block, I wouldn't put your hopes too high if I were you. You know what happens when WotC make their mea culpa about power creep and enter paranoid-land.
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  • #13
    Quote from clan_iraq
    So eh, seeing as both the 2/2 token and 10 mill would be rather pointless (ok, maybe for chump blocking in a race its nice) but TBH I'd rather just equip a darksteel axe


    I'm sorry - you mean the TWO 2/2 tokens and the 20 mill, right? Wink Two hits of that vs. a Jace deck and they might not be able to find a finisher and win before milling out, even if they do have a DoJ left in their deck and find it in time.

    But yeah, its still not very much what constructed wants. 3 CMC nonsplashable is too tricky a slot


    I'm not even sure we need SoBaM to make him good. Even a simple Adventuring Gear makes him capable of killing every Titan and Man-Land in Standard, and living through the fight with Grave and Primeval. And Basilisk Collar is no joke on a double strike creature, either. I'm thinking t1 Student, t2 either level your Student, drop an Honor, or drop Stoneforge to go get an equip, t3 this guy. Right now, sure that does seem a little slow but who knows what else could be coming along?

    Quote from DanoLefourbe
    Mirran puts the opponent as near to death as phyrexian with each strike, but benefits from boosts much better. It is also compatible with much more play styles, when Phyrexian needs infect to be played.


    These were my thoughts exactly, only you expressed it so much more clearly.

    @Skittles: Indeed, but since they are terribly afraid to make anything near overpowered in THIS mirrodin block, I wouldn't put your hopes too high if I were you. You know what happens when WotC make their mea culpa about power creep and enter paranoid-land.


    Agreed. And yet: an (effective) 4/2 for 3? I'm not so much worried about Power Creep as I am that any standards for what the "power curve" for creatures was has been left behind and forgotten. :\
    Last edited by Kasreyn: 12/19/2010 3:07:02 PM
    "Extenuating circumstance to be mentioned on Judgment Day: None of us asked to be born in the first place."
    --Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., who is up in Heaven now. EDH WUBRG Child of Alara WUBRG BGW Karador, Ghost Chieftain BGW RGW Mayael the Anima RGW WUB Sharuum the Hegemon WUB RWU Zedruu the Greathearted RWU
    WB Ghost Council of Orzhova WB RG Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B G Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer G *click the general's name to see my list!*
  • #14
    Quote from Kasreyn
    I'm sorry - you mean the TWO 2/2 tokens and the 20 mill, right? Wink Two hits of that vs. a Jace deck and they might not be able to find a finisher and win before milling out, even if they do have a DoJ left in their deck and find it in time.

    I'm not even sure we need SoBaM to make him good. Even a simple Adventuring Gear makes him capable of killing every Titan and Man-Land in Standard, and living through the fight with Grave and Primeval. And Basilisk Collar is no joke on a double strike creature, either. I'm thinking t1 Student, t2 either level your Student, drop an Honor, or drop Stoneforge to go get an equip, t3 this guy. Right now, sure that does seem a little slow but who knows what else could be coming along?


    Yeah two 2/2 tokens and 20 mill- but also 8 damage to the dome which already kills them in 2-3 hits, 2 if you already has some aggro elements to deal with them and the tokens connecting. But beyond the question of "is that worth the price tag" and "aren't there cheaper, more efficient equipments", it really doesn't address the issue of 1WW being a dang brutal requirement. UW wouldn't want to run him, WW wouldn't want more than 2 of him at the most. Its not a very commanding mana slot


    When you get into card comparisons like "an adventuring gear lets him trade with or even kill a titan" or basic collar or so on- why not just a oust or doom blade or journey to nowhere? Why triple-context answers that need not just your creature out and equipment out but also a fetchland to crack- and your enemy to either attack into an obvious board or decided its worth blocking it? Thats not solid deck design.

    Yeah if theres notable good equipments a fairly cheap double striker could be good- but why not a kor duelist? :S. Thats how you end up in the WWQ archetype- and again, the mana cost is forbidding. Sword barely goes beyond what a darksteel axe for half the price would do in this situation since most of its effects would be redundant.

    Like most cards held up to a competitive lens, its something that will be held back by its rather unwieldy mana cost. Its just not good to drop a 1WW card that will die to a R card in this metagame without doing anything. Bad card? Certainly not. But expect it to have a similar fate to transcendent master.
    PSA- With BNG having many 'opponents choice' effects and not just in tribute, it helps to know how to evaluate such mechanics:

    Whenever a mechanic gives an opponent his choice of one of multiple options, the ability is overall worth less than the least of these options, made worse by how different the options are and better by your ability to manipulate this choice. In most cases you have no meaningful way to influence your opponents choice.
  • #15
    Can we simply agree both of the Crusaders won't make any existing deck Tier 1, because they are A) not overpowered enough B) don't really fit in aggro decks due to the CMC 3 and C) are rather cute than constructed worthy. Not sure what or if anything would help to make them the MVPs in your deck.

    The price Bleiweiss suggested for SCG gives a pretty good hint how playable both of them are. And usually he's right 90%+ of the time.
  • #16
    I think its pretty clear the Mirran Crusader won't make it into decks as an all-star, maybe in some obscure and rare roles in aggro but certainly not popular. Again, the phyrexian depends entirely on infect. If infect by some odd stroke of fate ended up being dominant and heavily played (it won't), this guy would definitely be on the deck list. Mind thats such a remote chance. Now in that tangent universe yeah maybe it could command a $5-10 pricetag, but barring any complete turnaround by wizards that simply won't happen
    PSA- With BNG having many 'opponents choice' effects and not just in tribute, it helps to know how to evaluate such mechanics:

    Whenever a mechanic gives an opponent his choice of one of multiple options, the ability is overall worth less than the least of these options, made worse by how different the options are and better by your ability to manipulate this choice. In most cases you have no meaningful way to influence your opponents choice.
  • #17
    As soon as he came out, I thought that WW Haterator would be able to make a resurgence. However, that deck was a meta call against the resurgence of RDW and the ever constant powerhouse that was Jund.

    But hey, a decklist like:

    MTGS_User40970's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    4 Steppe Lynx
    4 Kor Duelist
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 Kor Firewalker
    4 White Knight
    4 Mirran Crusader

    1 Sword of Vengeance
    1 Sword of Body and Mind
    1 NEW SWORD

    4 Honor of the Pure
    4 Journey to Nowhere



    Doesn't seem too too bad. I know I'm gonna try it out.
  • #18
    Quote from clan_iraq
    I think its pretty clear the Mirran Crusader won't make it into decks as an all-star, maybe in some obscure and rare roles in aggro but certainly not popular. Again, the phyrexian depends entirely on infect. If infect by some odd stroke of fate ended up being dominant and heavily played (it won't), this guy would definitely be on the deck list. Mind thats such a remote chance. Now in that tangent universe yeah maybe it could command a $5-10 pricetag, but barring any complete turnaround by wizards that simply won't happen


    So in a vacuum you can accept phyrex crusader being more playable than Mirran but you say it wont because you believe infect will not become a viable deck strategy...?

    the Thread name asks whether mirran or phyrex crusader. Not sure whether youre asking which is better or worse, more playable less playable, has better support less support, but your OP has a clear bias towards one making this thread somewhat a troll if not flint to start a flame war.

    you should probably wait till the set is out to ask such questions as cards that support either is more than probable to come out.

    On another note, you must be in serious denial if you believe poison will not become any better over the next year. HALF of this set is supposed to represent phyrexia. Meaning somewhere near idk, maybe something like... HALF of this set will interact with or support poison. Unless poison is going to be evergreen, i see no reason for R&D to not push a T1 infect list (Especially with MaRo wanting it back so badly).
    Last edited by VexedShusher: 12/21/2010 2:03:01 PM
    ~Intelligence is Bliss; Ignorance is Denial.



    Skill is an ability that relates more so to the type of deck that's built and how said player pilots it. It also relates to the ability to assess the board and use the cards available to you in the most optimal way relative to each situation.
    When a deck is filled with above par cards and every play is solid, there comes a diminishing need to "think" for the lack of wanting to use a better word.


  • #20
    just as a point, in legacy the phyrexian is a bit of a laugh. There have been a few (really non-competitive) poison decks running around abusing invigorate.

    t1: fetch bayou, dark ritual, phyrexian crusader
    t2: invigorate, invigorate.............did i just win?

    semi hilarious and probabaly not going to happen to often but in my eyes this makes him much better than the miran. also, with protection from swords and lightning bolt
  • #21
    Quote from clan_iraq
    Yeah two 2/2 tokens and 20 mill- but also 8 damage to the dome which already kills them in 2-3 hits, 2 if you already has some aggro elements to deal with them and the tokens connecting. But beyond the question of "is that worth the price tag" and "aren't there cheaper, more efficient equipments", it really doesn't address the issue of 1WW being a dang brutal requirement. UW wouldn't want to run him, WW wouldn't want more than 2 of him at the most. Its not a very commanding mana slot


    When you get into card comparisons like "an adventuring gear lets him trade with or even kill a titan" or basic collar or so on- why not just a oust or doom blade or journey to nowhere? Why triple-context answers that need not just your creature out and equipment out but also a fetchland to crack- and your enemy to either attack into an obvious board or decided its worth blocking it? Thats not solid deck design.

    Yeah if theres notable good equipments a fairly cheap double striker could be good- but why not a kor duelist? :S. Thats how you end up in the WWQ archetype- and again, the mana cost is forbidding. Sword barely goes beyond what a darksteel axe for half the price would do in this situation since most of its effects would be redundant.

    Like most cards held up to a competitive lens, its something that will be held back by its rather unwieldy mana cost. Its just not good to drop a 1WW card that will die to a R card in this metagame without doing anything. Bad card? Certainly not. But expect it to have a similar fate to transcendent master.


    Transcendent Master had 2 things going against it that Mirran Crusader doesn't.

    1: He requires an additional mana investment after the initial 1WW

    2: He has no protection or evasion. Yes, Mirran Crusader falls to Lightning Bolt, but he also dodges Doom Blade and swings past, or blocks, anything black or green. Transcendent Master, not so much.

    Therefore, they are not at ALL similar. They COULD have the same fate, but with those two huge differences, I doubt it.
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  • #22
    Quote from {BLS-NC}Khan
    As soon as he came out, I thought that WW Haterator would be able to make a resurgence. However, that deck was a meta call against the resurgence of RDW and the ever constant powerhouse that was Jund.

    But hey, a decklist like:

    TheGrease's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    4 Steppe Lynx
    4 Kor Duelist
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 Kor Firewalker
    4 White Knight
    4 Mirran Crusader

    1 Sword of Vengeance
    1 Sword of Body and Mind
    1 NEW SWORD

    4 Honor of the Pure
    4 Journey to Nowhere



    Doesn't seem too too bad. I know I'm gonna try it out.


    There is a lot of double strike and first strike in here to not have a Basilisk Collar.

    Scratch that.

    There is a lot of Stoneforge Mystic in here to not have at least 1 Basilisk Collar.

    I think the Mirrian Crusader is being underestimated. He blocks Grave and Primeval Titan, avoids black removal, plows through Wall of Omens, Makes elves cry, and is an overall solid card.

    Like many people are mentioning, he may just not have a deck to fit into. But as long as UB keeps dominating, this guy will see play. Hell, I'm about to start playtesting him as a MD option in my UW control. I've been looking for something sturdy, strong enough to survive against aggro, and still give control a run for it's money. This may be the guy.
  • #23
    Knight.dec fails because of this simply. It's clunky. 3cmc slot will be flooded with those 'good' knights. the deck has no CA and promotes overextension with a plethora of midgame drops. that's either too slow or weak realistically for comp.
    ~Intelligence is Bliss; Ignorance is Denial.



    Skill is an ability that relates more so to the type of deck that's built and how said player pilots it. It also relates to the ability to assess the board and use the cards available to you in the most optimal way relative to each situation.
    When a deck is filled with above par cards and every play is solid, there comes a diminishing need to "think" for the lack of wanting to use a better word.


  • #24
    Yeah, that was in no way a well thought out list, Grease. Just threw that together in less than 3 minutes. More of a, "Ooh, that's shiny. Lets run that," idea.

    I'm sure with a little more deliberation, it could work. Heck, it doesn't even have Squadron Hawk in there, and that's looking to be an excellent creature to hold any equipment.
  • #25
    The CMC 3 thing isn't good for any aggro deck, especially without haste. You want to deal 6-10 damage before your opponent hits 4 lands because then every UW deck will wrath you and you lose your entire board.

    And what about Crusader post-wrath? Sure. But he won't beat that 5th turn Baneslayer Angel/Gideon they're playing next. You can't win with a Crusader in this scenario. That's all I'm saying.
  • #26
    Ah-ehm...
    Discussion aside, am I the only one that sees that little pricing difference simply due to the free Promo Mirran? ^^
    (Proud to be) Level 1 Judge since April 2010
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