Personaly I believe SoM is an awsome set for limited, probably the best limited set sense Lorwyn (I hated shards limited). People did not quit magic durring Mirrodin because of the flavor of an all artifact block, heck people loved that back then. People quit durring mirrodin because of the sheer dominance that affinity had on standard and how its existance defined the format. Either you were playing affinity or you were playing a deck designed to beat affinity. The notion that Infection and Metalcraft are "too powerful" is laughable. First off, poison counters are little kid magic much like mill, it will never be a compedative archtype. How many times have people said, "OMG this card makes mill insane now" over the past year and how many mill decks have shown up at the PT? Yep, zero. Poison counters are no different. As for metalcraft, are you serious? All of the things with metalcraft are terrible outside of limited, not to mention how unstable having to have 3 artifacts in play at all times is by itself. No, SoM is just fine if you play limited. If you do not, then yes it is a bit weak in constructed cards but it is certainly not terrible.
Am I the only one who sees a good sign in all the complaining? People obviously think Scars is garbage, because they do not know what to make of it. This speaks of great diversity and balance. Now I might be wrong, but it is also based on my personal expirience. I have no idea, not the slightest clue what Scars is going to do to the meta, not even how to properly play it in limited and I'm usually really good at that. Even at prereleases I usually end up pretty high up because I know the set by heart from the spoiler. Yet in Scars I have no clue. And that is so great and refreshing and I imagine to most people unnerving. So far I've been enjoying Scars a lot more than Alara's Bloodbraids, Paths, Noble Hierarchs and Elspeths and I imagine I'll continue doing so for quite a while.
In the mean time, happy wasting your time with silly complaints.
Oh and, on a side note, what the hell's up with complaining anyway? If you want to quit, fine, if you don't like the set, fine. But why do there have to be 20 threads on here about how garbage it is and blah blah and so on? What are you guys intending to do with those? Convince us that the block's terrible? What do you gain from that? Really, what is the point?
Am I the only one who sees a good sign in all the complaining? People obviously think Scars is garbage, because they do not know what to make of it. This speaks of great diversity and balance. Now I might be wrong, but it is also based on my personal expirience. I have no idea, not the slightest clue what Scars is going to do to the meta, not even how to properly play it in limited and I'm usually really good at that. Even at prereleases I usually end up pretty high up because I know the set by heart from the spoiler. Yet in Scars I have no clue. And that is so great and refreshing and I imagine to most people unnerving. So far I've been enjoying Scars a lot more than Alara's Bloodbraids, Paths, Noble Hierarchs and Elspeths and I imagine I'll continue doing so for quite a while.
In the mean time, happy wasting your time with silly complaints.
Oh and, on a side note, what the hell's up with complaining anyway? If you want to quit, fine, if you don't like the set, fine. But why do there have to be 20 threads on here about how garbage it is and blah blah and so on? What are you guys intending to do with those? Convince us that the block's terrible? What do you gain from that? Really, what is the point?
Well, I mean...you're in the thread, too. So you basically answer your own question. People are in here to speak their minds in a public forum. Not much more to it than that.
I don't have a huge problem with SoM, just not a fan of the standard that is coming with it, so I'll switch to other formats until next set. That said, I went to the pr, and people were busting packs, and kind of just dumbfounded. One guy cracks an Elspeth, Sunblast Angel, and boom, his deck is made for him. I had a handful of permission and tutor in blue, no defense, I end up in g/b infect due to an overwhelming amount of it. People didn't know what to make of it, like you said. Where you made a leap to that speaking to great diversity and balance is beyond me. People didn't seem to know what to do with the pile of cards in front of them, mostly because there wasn't a whole lot of unity in the set beyond infect, hence you see a sealed meta full of poison (at least, that's what I saw at a 40+ pr) And balance? C'mon, look at the average toughness of dudes you're pulling from a pack, and compare it to your removal. A bomb hits the table, he really isn't going anywhere. Carnifex Demon on the table with 2 black open is practically a full board sweeper and gg, and he's not really that great of a card. The set has some interesting stuff, sure, but balance and diversity aren't among its strong points.
I still fish the first Mirrodin block for gems that I missed 10 years ago (yeah, took me that long to find spellweaver helix to build around, much to the "hatred" of the more casual players). I see SOM as largely the same. In fact, I already found some gems in the common slot for my bauble deck that I built a while ago and needed a good source of tokens. Then again, I'm a bonafide Johnny, and Johnny sets tend to have horrible track records with the rest of the crowd specifically because a good number of the cards are narrow and that casual players hate Johnny cards with a passion.
In regards to the top 10 cards in standard being $40 and above, hrmm, lets see, looking at the standard legal sets we have (and these are ebay prices, not inflated online store prices from some online stores):
Jace 2.0: $75
Koth: $40
Elspeth 2.0: $38
Venser: $36
Vengevine: $35
Primeval Titan: $35
Mox Opal: $33
Gideon: $22
Baneslayer Angel: $20
Everything else is less than $20 each.
4 of the 9 on that list are from the new set. The new set cards should settle like everything from m11 eventually did as well, which will bring that down. In the end the only 2 cards right now that are consistently selling for $40+ are Jace 2.0, and Koth(for now). So I dont know where you are pulling the top-10 all being $40 or more. That said, I agree the top 10 are all expensive.
Additional comments:
Someone comparing Mox Opal to Black Lotus just made me laugh so hard, that has to be one of the most rediculous comments Ive ever heard. The card requires you to be playing an artifact-heavy deck in order for it to try to do something explosive, and even then it only nets you one additional mana for that commitment, and its legendary so you cannot abuse it in multiples. Its not bad to be sure, but its not over-the-top amazing eithor.
As for Koth being banned, seriously? Why? Sure the card has the potential to do some nice mana accel, but its a 4-drop that requires a heavy commitment to red to be affective (for the ramping ability anyway). This card is not meant to be used for any deck running red, like Jace 2.0 is practically a shoo-in for any deck running blue. Koth has a lot of potential, but its certainly not ban-worthy. Sounds like a lot of overblown hype more than anything else.
In my estimation within a month of the release youll see Koth/Elspeth/Venser at around $30 each at most, and the mox will likely drop back down to $25 or possibly as low as $20.
Just my thoughts though, take them as you will.
EDIT: As for shops closing down. If you are smart about setting up your shop, do your best to cater to your playerbase as a whole, offer a range of product and playspace that will keep a maximum number of people coming into your shop on a constant basis, your shop should do fine. Our current shop has been open now for 4-years and we are doing quite well. Our playerbase continues to grow, even amid new shops openning up after other poorly run shops went away in previous years, our sales have continued to grow at a strong steady pace for sealed product, and the singles sales (the part I own/run) have doubled every year since I started, to the point now where I have trouble keeping up with it (over $100,000 in singles sales this year alone just at the shop). We had pre-orders of a few cases at the shop as well, which was a record for the shop, so obviously some people feel the set is worth the money to do such a thing. In the end, while we may lose a couple of people due to the high price of standard (they usually still play casual regardless, or find a good budget deck to play with), or because they dont like the new set, we will get 2x as many new players or people coming back because they like the new set to make up for it. It would be great if a set could make 100% of the players happy 100% of the time, but I think thats just an unrealistic expectation.
Good to see reading comprehension is still at a premium around here.
You took the low end prices of each listed card. At my store, and on most major dealer sites, these are the true prices:
And no, Koth will not go down. He will go up. I can't speak for the others, but Koth will absolutely go up. He's extremely powerful and will be the centerpiece for mono red decks for months to come. He's already popping up as a four-of in red playlists. I can't speak for Venser and Elspeth.
And I didn't say I thought Koth would be banned and an active Opal being close to power to a Black Lotus, I didn't make these claims. Mike Flores and Patrick Chapin did, respectively. They've accomplished more in Magic in the last two seconds than you have in your entire life, so I wouldn't just give a big hearty "lolllll!!11" to their comments and ignore them. These men know what they are talking about when it comes to Magic: the Gathering.
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And this to PROVE that the TOP TEN cards are all above $40? a bit of an exaggeration. Oh, and by the way, STILL 4 of those NINE (not ten) are from the new set, and thus likely to drop. This is a phenomenon that has often been observed to occur in the wake of a new set's release. Most people here will tell you that. Some sort of argument about the inflation engaged in by major dealers could probably be made too, but that's another issue.
At my store, and on most major dealer sites, these are the true prices
As we talk about in every card-value thread, people in these threads talking about "card value" in the abstract don't (and shouldn't) care about high prices at individual stores, where cards are being sold to captive audiences and their prices are being impacted severely by local environmental fluctuations. (Starcity, which uses its reputation and large inventory specifically to enable it to charge a 25% premium on desirable cards, is similarly largely irrelevant to these discussions.) In 2010, anyone who wants to can easily buy cards from numerous sources online at what constitutes a "market rate" -- i.e. a price derived purely from supply vs. demand and which closely matches what an individual looking to sell their own cards on the market could afford to charge.
And please watch your tone; let's keep this discussion civil and stay away from personal attacks.
Exactly right. I can go onto online stores and get the cards listed for the prices I listed, and can easlily get them on ebay with no issues at all, from just as reputable of sellers there, for the prices I listed OR LOWER.
But hey, if people's shops charge more for singles, then they can eithor choose to pay those higher prices or they can always go to ebay or cheaper online stores to get what they want and save a good chunk of money.
In the end its true, a card (or anything) is worth what people are willing to pay for it. If people find that people in their area are willing to pay more for some cards, then that card may be locally to them be worth more in their area.
In the end though the true value of a card for me is what I can easily sell/buy it for on a place that I can easily do so. For now and for most people, that is ebay, and if I try to sell the cards listed for the other person's prices, they would never sell, however if I sell them at my prices (which I do constantly and have been doing for over 5 years consistently now) they most often will sell.
As for the comments made by pros, they can say whatever they want. The truth is though, sometimes they are right, and sometimes they are wrong. I am not a pro, or much of a player these days, Im a businessman, I run a singles business, and do just fine doing so. I keep up on trends and constantly keep an eye on price fluctuations. Sometimes Im ahead of the curve, sometimes Im behind, no one is perfect there. That said, we had a LOT of people come through our shop yesterday, and many people bought singles, and out of all those people, I think I sold 3 Koth to one person, and 1 Koth to another person, and 2 more just now to another person at $40 each, and that was it. Typically when a card is hot, or underpriced as some would suggest, they would have sold a lot faster. Jace 2.0 being a great example of that, when I sold at least 5 playsets on the first day. We'll see what Koth does in the days ahead, but for now Im in no hurry to raise the price when its readily available on ebay for $40, and plenty of online stores for $45.
EDIT: Oh, and the $50 price for venser at this point makes me chuckle, I set mine at $32, and I sold NONE, not that I was surprised. You can easily find them at online stores and on ebay for $35 each though, just gotta know where to look :).
^^^No joke... you sign up with this referral and make a $15 purchase on that same visit, and you can redeem your "Shark Shares" for a free Booster Pack!!!
I want the seriously competitive standard forums to be segregated, even if it means excluding myself from posting in them. Post this in your signature if you agree with this.
And no, Koth will not go down. He will go up. I can't speak for the others, but Koth will absolutely go up. He's extremely powerful and will be the centerpiece for mono red decks for months to come. He's already popping up as a four-of in red playlists. I can't speak for Venser and Elspeth.
And I didn't say I thought Koth would be banned and an active Opal being close to power to a Black Lotus, I didn't make these claims. Mike Flores and Patrick Chapin did, respectively. They've accomplished more in Magic in the last two seconds than you have in your entire life, so I wouldn't just give a big hearty "lolllll!!11" to their comments and ignore them. These men know what they are talking about when it comes to Magic: the Gathering.
Way back when. Now, they're mouthpieces that too many people put way too much stock in. That aside, I found it incredibly funny that in 4 days koth has lost 20% of his value (easily found in abundance at $40 on cardshark, ebay, etc.) and still hasn't found a home yet beyond mono-red, and let's be honest, they lost twice to three times what they gained with rotation. $50 planeswalkers that fit in 1 color deck types aren't maintaining a $50 price tag, and you don't have to be a former pro-tour blogger to see that.
Koth would be a $50+ card if it was the only desirable card in the set like Jace was in Worldwake. That's one of the big reasons why Jace is so ungodly expensive -- he's the "perfect storm" (The other reason being that Worldwake was drafted so little, putting very small amount of additional supply that comes from drafting sets). Worldwake had no other real desirable mythics other than Avenger of Zendikar and Abyssal Persecutor, and thanks to mythic rares as a concept in of itself, it caused the good rares like Stoneforge Mystic, Basilisk Collar, and manlands to have totally deflated values. As a result, Jace took the lion's share of the set value because people literally opening boxes and packs just to get Jace.
There's nothing money wise wrong with the set
Theres nothing really design wrong with the set, other than its Mirrodin again
Umm, the vast majority of the cards are worth less than what a pack costs, you have like a 1 in 8 chance of pulling a mythic out of a box that gets some of your $$ back, and design wise, it's the most boring designed set I've ever seen. None of the mechanics are remotely intriguing
There's nothing money wise wrong with the set
Theres nothing really design wrong with the set, other than its Mirrodin again
This set is a total constructed design failure (at least for me).
What does make a great constructed set ?
- Deck building possibilities
Here you can make a myr deck (how predictible...) an infest deck (limited possibilities, even if some are better than others.) or a metalcraft theme.
Yup so if i want to play a deck without artifact nor infest creature... I just take mimic vat and call it a day ? (well, ignoring the fact that the vat is itself an artifact)
Linear and parasitic mechanic are bothersome. A set full of those is even worst than kamigawa itself ! (at least you could for exemple play kodoma's reach in any green deck...)
This set is not that special, the return to artifact theme is not welcome since everyone was asking an enchantment-based set or something less.. broken. I myself had quit playing magic since Scars were about to be released - and I don't feel like playing magic this season. Mirrodin's story is cold to me, not addicting. Remember the older days, when Mirrodin 1.0 was released? A lot of people have quit. Well, magic goes up and down, and as it is now it's too much bitter for my taste.
*artifact themed set is not welcome -
*poison will make things worse.
*metalcraft-heavy environment making other decks difficult to appear.
Wait, THIS is the set to make you quit? Really? Have you played Mercadian Masque block after coming off the high that is Tempest/Urza Block?
Artifact Theme is fine, as long as its balanced, which this set is, if you don't think it is, then you are delusional and need to go check out the original mirrodin to an extent but extremely need to see the older sets if you want to complain about artifacts in general.
Poison has, is, and always will be the most laughable ability next to banding.
Metal Craft is clunky, and fragile. It might make an appearence if the next sets can add something decent but right now, its far to slow.
Umm, the vast majority of the cards are worth less than what a pack costs, you have like a 1 in 8 chance of pulling a mythic out of a box that gets some of your $$ back
So, in your opinion, you should be able to at least break even every box?
That is asinine. Imagine buying a pack, opening it, and then going back and returning the rare for another pack. Every single pack. There'd be no chance involved, thus it wouldn't have the thrill it does now.
And of course the vast majority of cards are going to be worth less than the packs: The vast majority of cards are Commons!
Edit: SoM is the new Worldwake. WotC wizened up and decided to make the first set of the block fairly weak, then put all the fun cards in the next two sets. They didn't want to repeat what happened with Worldwake (where people barely bought packs, and those who did were hunting for a single specific card).
Though I admit, if they wanted to avoid another Worldwake they should have made SoM about 30% better than it currently is.
This set is a total constructed design failure (at least for me).
What does make a great constructed set ?
- Deck building possibilities
Here you can make a myr deck (how predictible...) an infest deck (limited possibilities, even if some are better than others.) or a metalcraft theme.
Yup so if i want to play a deck without artifact nor infest creature... I just take mimic vat and call it a day ? (well, ignoring the fact that the vat is itself an artifact)
Linear and parasitic mechanic are bothersome. A set full of those is even worst than kamigawa itself ! (at least you could for exemple play kodoma's reach in any green deck...)
So, what you're saying here is that you're bad at Magic and can't build a deck without a slew of auto-includes? Lol. I bet you loved the M11 Titan cycle!
I've seen tons of decks being brewed for States, and I've gotta say, there is a great deal of both power and variety available. At this late hour, I'll just quote you, though, as you'll be eating your words come Saturday when the lists start trickling in.
This set is one of the most skill-testing sets I can recall. Synergy is king, and there's all kinds of synergies in SoM.
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This is an interesting set. I'm not thrilled with it but it does make people actually try to be more creatively competitively if they dont' like the decks that are on standby. Infect is a good mechanic, unfortunately it does shoehorn you to basically center your deck around it but the good thing is that it's better than the option of "mill your opponent".
Metalcraft is a niche mechanic, theres not really a lot to make worth while but people are testing too see if there can be a deck made that uses metalcraft type cards.
I'm not quitting magic but I am at the moment taking a break offline from it do to money issues. However thats why things like MWS exist.
This set is a total constructed design failure (at least for me).
What does make a great constructed set ?
- Deck building possibilities
Here you can make a myr deck (how predictible...) an infest deck (limited possibilities, even if some are better than others.) or a metalcraft theme.
Yup so if i want to play a deck without artifact nor infest creature... I just take mimic vat and call it a day ? (well, ignoring the fact that the vat is itself an artifact)
Linear and parasitic mechanic are bothersome. A set full of those is even worst than kamigawa itself ! (at least you could for exemple play kodoma's reach in any green deck...)
Its the first set of 3. you're not going to have instant artifact competitive decks with 1 set. please get real. In alara we didnt really have a real good competitive deck for each shard. everyone is working at it and seems to be getting some good out of it. just because you cant think up 30 auto-win decks doesnt mean the set is a failure.
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Modern:
Affinity
EDH:
Rhys (Tokens)
Karrthus (Dragons)
Bruna (Auras OP)
While I acknowledge SoM isn't as powerful or "great" a set as something like Ravnica, Lorwyn, or whatever else, I have come to the conclusion that I am going to stick it out and play with the cards designed for me to play in this set. I am giving it a chance. I hate mythics. They are deflating the value of regular rares. But I am in this game to have fun. People ought not to lose sight of that. So, like I said, I am going to make the best of a mediocre set like this. It isn't Urza's Saga, but it ain't Saviors of Kamigawa either. It's worth a chance to play with.
Well, I gotta say that while I'm one of those who was planning to not get much of this set, I actually really enjoyed this set so far. Granted I only played one draft where I placed somewhere in the middle, I agree with the people who said that the fun in the set comes with the many interactions between the cards. I honestly felt like I could just buy the Myr deck and just fill in the gaps from just drafting and be happy with a new casual deck :). Then again, this is coming from a former Spike who found to cherish his own Timmy and Johnny.
EDIT: yeah, I'm with Target Player just above me. Mediocre set, but fun.
So, what you're saying here is that you're bad at Magic and can't build a deck without a slew of auto-includes? Lol. I bet you loved the M11 Titan cycle!
I've seen tons of decks being brewed for States, and I've gotta say, there is a great deal of both power and variety available. At this late hour, I'll just quote you, though, as you'll be eating your words come Saturday when the lists start trickling in.
This set is one of the most skill-testing sets I can recall. Synergy is king, and there's all kinds of synergies in SoM.
I have to agree with Cam on most grounds. Even with the little pool we have now there are more styles than there has been in a long time. These so called "Linear" builds are actually not. If you think about metalcraft, all it requires, is that you play with artifacts. Infect has artifacts and different ways to use it. Proliferate bolsters MANY THINGS. A lot of the colored cards do more than just fit into auto0builds, and most of the artifacts have vast arrays of combinations. People like to complain. Shards was much more rigid. Vamps and Knights and all the Tribal builds are MUCH MORE linear than what he have gotton in Scars.
And to the people complaining about removal, you make the game sick. Less removal allows for more complex boards. Sorry white, you can't use O-Ring. Oh Terminate is out, Boo Hoo. Removal has always been such a simple way of playing, while a board with a lot of interactions is antithetical. I don't want to get into
To the naysayers stop ☺☺☺☺ing *****ing. Stop whining. Then explain why this set is the worst since 'X' set.
This set is amazing considered. Great value when buying a box. 3 Huge PWers, worth a considerable amount each. Many other chase mythics/rares that are equally awsome. Interesting cards with so many effects and combo cards and crazy power cards like Wurmcoil Engine, yet another crazy power creep card that will bring down Baneslayer Angeleven futher. Molten Tail whatever anyone?
(Just compare the friggin value for the set against WWK ffs. Jace and Percy save the day? This set compleltly rolls the previous two sets in terms of value, you clearly have rocks in your head to call this set bad)
We have great mythics for once, good rares, decent enough uncommons/commons, intersting interactions with Zen/M11, fun decks are being built for stanard fun for the first time in months(Mono Blue/Artifacts was possible a month ago right?), the prices are reasonable and Jace 2.0 still is high but with so many good mythics/rares to choose from powerful cards are open to everybody. Now that Oring/Path/Terminate etc are gone we can have some balanced fun!
The entire set is a sleeper hit. It looked bad at first but in about 15 mins im off to buy a box. I'm really liking it and you should to. This set, with Jace still high as the expection, is driving the prices on most cards down and offers a great range of myhtics/rares to boot.
And i totally agree with Spider about. This set will really show who's who of Magic in the coming weeks. After the auto pilot decks of RDW, Jund and every other aggro/mid range aggro and U/Wx to some degree players are being forced to think about choices for once. No longer can U/W tapout as control and let Oring deal with their mistake.
Given up magic because a)its a waste of money b)it sucks the joy out of life c)im doing more interesting things than tapping pieces of plastic that have no intrinsic value.
I encourage you to do the same. Instead of FNM try Friday Night Something Spontaneous. Instead of thousands of hours and dollars on plastic imagine it with a significant other or friends sharing something meaningful. I randomly typed a new password, so bon voyage itches i encourage you to follow suit! Cheers
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In the mean time, happy wasting your time with silly complaints.
Oh and, on a side note, what the hell's up with complaining anyway? If you want to quit, fine, if you don't like the set, fine. But why do there have to be 20 threads on here about how garbage it is and blah blah and so on? What are you guys intending to do with those? Convince us that the block's terrible? What do you gain from that? Really, what is the point?
Well, I mean...you're in the thread, too. So you basically answer your own question. People are in here to speak their minds in a public forum. Not much more to it than that.
I don't have a huge problem with SoM, just not a fan of the standard that is coming with it, so I'll switch to other formats until next set. That said, I went to the pr, and people were busting packs, and kind of just dumbfounded. One guy cracks an Elspeth, Sunblast Angel, and boom, his deck is made for him. I had a handful of permission and tutor in blue, no defense, I end up in g/b infect due to an overwhelming amount of it. People didn't know what to make of it, like you said. Where you made a leap to that speaking to great diversity and balance is beyond me. People didn't seem to know what to do with the pile of cards in front of them, mostly because there wasn't a whole lot of unity in the set beyond infect, hence you see a sealed meta full of poison (at least, that's what I saw at a 40+ pr) And balance? C'mon, look at the average toughness of dudes you're pulling from a pack, and compare it to your removal. A bomb hits the table, he really isn't going anywhere. Carnifex Demon on the table with 2 black open is practically a full board sweeper and gg, and he's not really that great of a card. The set has some interesting stuff, sure, but balance and diversity aren't among its strong points.
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Good to see reading comprehension is still at a premium around here.
You took the low end prices of each listed card. At my store, and on most major dealer sites, these are the true prices:
Jace: $85
Koth: $50
Vengevine: $45
Elspeth: $50
Venser: $50
Mox Opal: $40
Primeval Titan: $45
Baneslayer Angel: $35
Gideon: $30
And no, Koth will not go down. He will go up. I can't speak for the others, but Koth will absolutely go up. He's extremely powerful and will be the centerpiece for mono red decks for months to come. He's already popping up as a four-of in red playlists. I can't speak for Venser and Elspeth.
And I didn't say I thought Koth would be banned and an active Opal being close to power to a Black Lotus, I didn't make these claims. Mike Flores and Patrick Chapin did, respectively. They've accomplished more in Magic in the last two seconds than you have in your entire life, so I wouldn't just give a big hearty "lolllll!!11" to their comments and ignore them. These men know what they are talking about when it comes to Magic: the Gathering.
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And this to PROVE that the TOP TEN cards are all above $40? a bit of an exaggeration. Oh, and by the way, STILL 4 of those NINE (not ten) are from the new set, and thus likely to drop. This is a phenomenon that has often been observed to occur in the wake of a new set's release. Most people here will tell you that. Some sort of argument about the inflation engaged in by major dealers could probably be made too, but that's another issue.
Those prices are all $10 above market value.
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As we talk about in every card-value thread, people in these threads talking about "card value" in the abstract don't (and shouldn't) care about high prices at individual stores, where cards are being sold to captive audiences and their prices are being impacted severely by local environmental fluctuations. (Starcity, which uses its reputation and large inventory specifically to enable it to charge a 25% premium on desirable cards, is similarly largely irrelevant to these discussions.) In 2010, anyone who wants to can easily buy cards from numerous sources online at what constitutes a "market rate" -- i.e. a price derived purely from supply vs. demand and which closely matches what an individual looking to sell their own cards on the market could afford to charge.
And please watch your tone; let's keep this discussion civil and stay away from personal attacks.
Exactly right. I can go onto online stores and get the cards listed for the prices I listed, and can easlily get them on ebay with no issues at all, from just as reputable of sellers there, for the prices I listed OR LOWER.
But hey, if people's shops charge more for singles, then they can eithor choose to pay those higher prices or they can always go to ebay or cheaper online stores to get what they want and save a good chunk of money.
In the end its true, a card (or anything) is worth what people are willing to pay for it. If people find that people in their area are willing to pay more for some cards, then that card may be locally to them be worth more in their area.
In the end though the true value of a card for me is what I can easily sell/buy it for on a place that I can easily do so. For now and for most people, that is ebay, and if I try to sell the cards listed for the other person's prices, they would never sell, however if I sell them at my prices (which I do constantly and have been doing for over 5 years consistently now) they most often will sell.
As for the comments made by pros, they can say whatever they want. The truth is though, sometimes they are right, and sometimes they are wrong. I am not a pro, or much of a player these days, Im a businessman, I run a singles business, and do just fine doing so. I keep up on trends and constantly keep an eye on price fluctuations. Sometimes Im ahead of the curve, sometimes Im behind, no one is perfect there. That said, we had a LOT of people come through our shop yesterday, and many people bought singles, and out of all those people, I think I sold 3 Koth to one person, and 1 Koth to another person, and 2 more just now to another person at $40 each, and that was it. Typically when a card is hot, or underpriced as some would suggest, they would have sold a lot faster. Jace 2.0 being a great example of that, when I sold at least 5 playsets on the first day. We'll see what Koth does in the days ahead, but for now Im in no hurry to raise the price when its readily available on ebay for $40, and plenty of online stores for $45.
EDIT: Oh, and the $50 price for venser at this point makes me chuckle, I set mine at $32, and I sold NONE, not that I was surprised. You can easily find them at online stores and on ebay for $35 each though, just gotta know where to look :).
Nice opinion... the story deepens!!
There's nothing money wise wrong with the set
Theres nothing really design wrong with the set, other than its Mirrodin again
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I want the seriously competitive standard forums to be segregated, even if it means excluding myself from posting in them. Post this in your signature if you agree with this.
Way back when. Now, they're mouthpieces that too many people put way too much stock in. That aside, I found it incredibly funny that in 4 days koth has lost 20% of his value (easily found in abundance at $40 on cardshark, ebay, etc.) and still hasn't found a home yet beyond mono-red, and let's be honest, they lost twice to three times what they gained with rotation. $50 planeswalkers that fit in 1 color deck types aren't maintaining a $50 price tag, and you don't have to be a former pro-tour blogger to see that.
Umm, the vast majority of the cards are worth less than what a pack costs, you have like a 1 in 8 chance of pulling a mythic out of a box that gets some of your $$ back, and design wise, it's the most boring designed set I've ever seen. None of the mechanics are remotely intriguing
This set is a total constructed design failure (at least for me).
What does make a great constructed set ?
- Deck building possibilities
Here you can make a myr deck (how predictible...) an infest deck (limited possibilities, even if some are better than others.) or a metalcraft theme.
Yup so if i want to play a deck without artifact nor infest creature... I just take mimic vat and call it a day ? (well, ignoring the fact that the vat is itself an artifact)
Linear and parasitic mechanic are bothersome. A set full of those is even worst than kamigawa itself ! (at least you could for exemple play kodoma's reach in any green deck...)
Wait, THIS is the set to make you quit? Really? Have you played Mercadian Masque block after coming off the high that is Tempest/Urza Block?
Artifact Theme is fine, as long as its balanced, which this set is, if you don't think it is, then you are delusional and need to go check out the original mirrodin to an extent but extremely need to see the older sets if you want to complain about artifacts in general.
Poison has, is, and always will be the most laughable ability next to banding.
Metal Craft is clunky, and fragile. It might make an appearence if the next sets can add something decent but right now, its far to slow.
So, in your opinion, you should be able to at least break even every box?
That is asinine. Imagine buying a pack, opening it, and then going back and returning the rare for another pack. Every single pack. There'd be no chance involved, thus it wouldn't have the thrill it does now.
And of course the vast majority of cards are going to be worth less than the packs: The vast majority of cards are Commons!
Edit: SoM is the new Worldwake. WotC wizened up and decided to make the first set of the block fairly weak, then put all the fun cards in the next two sets. They didn't want to repeat what happened with Worldwake (where people barely bought packs, and those who did were hunting for a single specific card).
Though I admit, if they wanted to avoid another Worldwake they should have made SoM about 30% better than it currently is.
Driving Stick with Isochron Scepter.
Trinkets and Treasure: An Artificer's Toolbox.
Proc Drops: Playing with One Drops.
Deck Primer: Toshiro Umezawa
So, what you're saying here is that you're bad at Magic and can't build a deck without a slew of auto-includes? Lol. I bet you loved the M11 Titan cycle!
I've seen tons of decks being brewed for States, and I've gotta say, there is a great deal of both power and variety available. At this late hour, I'll just quote you, though, as you'll be eating your words come Saturday when the lists start trickling in.
This set is one of the most skill-testing sets I can recall. Synergy is king, and there's all kinds of synergies in SoM.
Metalcraft is a niche mechanic, theres not really a lot to make worth while but people are testing too see if there can be a deck made that uses metalcraft type cards.
I'm not quitting magic but I am at the moment taking a break offline from it do to money issues. However thats why things like MWS exist.
There was once [The Pack], but no more.
Its the first set of 3. you're not going to have instant artifact competitive decks with 1 set. please get real. In alara we didnt really have a real good competitive deck for each shard. everyone is working at it and seems to be getting some good out of it. just because you cant think up 30 auto-win decks doesnt mean the set is a failure.
Modern:
Affinity
EDH:
Rhys (Tokens)
Karrthus (Dragons)
Bruna (Auras OP)
I think that's going a bit far. Saviors was pretty atrocious. I can't recall anything good from the set save Erayo, Soratami Ascendant and Pithing Needle.
While I acknowledge SoM isn't as powerful or "great" a set as something like Ravnica, Lorwyn, or whatever else, I have come to the conclusion that I am going to stick it out and play with the cards designed for me to play in this set. I am giving it a chance. I hate mythics. They are deflating the value of regular rares. But I am in this game to have fun. People ought not to lose sight of that. So, like I said, I am going to make the best of a mediocre set like this. It isn't Urza's Saga, but it ain't Saviors of Kamigawa either. It's worth a chance to play with.
EDIT: yeah, I'm with Target Player just above me. Mediocre set, but fun.
I have to agree with Cam on most grounds. Even with the little pool we have now there are more styles than there has been in a long time. These so called "Linear" builds are actually not. If you think about metalcraft, all it requires, is that you play with artifacts. Infect has artifacts and different ways to use it. Proliferate bolsters MANY THINGS. A lot of the colored cards do more than just fit into auto0builds, and most of the artifacts have vast arrays of combinations. People like to complain. Shards was much more rigid. Vamps and Knights and all the Tribal builds are MUCH MORE linear than what he have gotton in Scars.
And to the people complaining about removal, you make the game sick. Less removal allows for more complex boards. Sorry white, you can't use O-Ring. Oh Terminate is out, Boo Hoo. Removal has always been such a simple way of playing, while a board with a lot of interactions is antithetical. I don't want to get into
This set is amazing considered. Great value when buying a box. 3 Huge PWers, worth a considerable amount each. Many other chase mythics/rares that are equally awsome. Interesting cards with so many effects and combo cards and crazy power cards like Wurmcoil Engine, yet another crazy power creep card that will bring down Baneslayer Angeleven futher. Molten Tail whatever anyone?
(Just compare the friggin value for the set against WWK ffs. Jace and Percy save the day? This set compleltly rolls the previous two sets in terms of value, you clearly have rocks in your head to call this set bad)
We have great mythics for once, good rares, decent enough uncommons/commons, intersting interactions with Zen/M11, fun decks are being built for stanard fun for the first time in months(Mono Blue/Artifacts was possible a month ago right?), the prices are reasonable and Jace 2.0 still is high but with so many good mythics/rares to choose from powerful cards are open to everybody. Now that Oring/Path/Terminate etc are gone we can have some balanced fun!
The entire set is a sleeper hit. It looked bad at first but in about 15 mins im off to buy a box. I'm really liking it and you should to. This set, with Jace still high as the expection, is driving the prices on most cards down and offers a great range of myhtics/rares to boot.
And i totally agree with Spider about. This set will really show who's who of Magic in the coming weeks. After the auto pilot decks of RDW, Jund and every other aggro/mid range aggro and U/Wx to some degree players are being forced to think about choices for once. No longer can U/W tapout as control and let Oring deal with their mistake.
I encourage you to do the same. Instead of FNM try Friday Night Something Spontaneous. Instead of thousands of hours and dollars on plastic imagine it with a significant other or friends sharing something meaningful. I randomly typed a new password, so bon voyage itches i encourage you to follow suit! Cheers