Keyword:
Proliferate (You choose any number of permanents and/or players with counters on them, then give each another counter of a kind already there)
Okay, now WTF is this?
The closest analogy of this is to Scry and Clash. Clash created a mini-game that was simple, risky, and somewhat fun. Had it appeared on more cards, or better costed cards, it'd have been one of the best mechancis we've had in a while.
Scry... was always clunky. But it's benifit is that it did something fairly simple that you'd like to see done in multiples. IE, it's pretty easy to come up with a dozen "fair" scry cards that use the keyword, and easier still to tack on this little "bonus" as an alternative to cantripping (Magma Jet!).
Now what's this little keyword do?
Well, apparently it lets you do EVERYTHING. It lets you choose ANY NUMBER of players/cards and add 1 counter of a type already there (Note, this isn't Proliferate X, like Bloodthirst X (IE - the "wait, that doesn't work under the rules except as an exception, and the exception is for this 1 card?)).
Now, yes, I could see a keyword like this:
Proliferate X (You choose up to X number of permanents and/or players with counters on them, then give each another counter of a kind already there)
Or:
Proliferate Y (Choose a permanent and/or player with counters on them, then give it Y more counters of a kind already there)
Either one of these would fit the "counters" theme, be fluid and variable (not unlike cycling), and be a great little "cantrip" style add on. How do you make your shock "cool"? Give it proliferate 1, of course!
But NO! This keyword does TOO MUCH. This is CLEARLY an ability that someone submitted on like 1 card (or a cycle of cards which they then changed into a keyword and then moves around) at the rare/mythic level and someone said "you know what? That's absolutely bat☺☺☺☺ insane! Give me 8 trash commons and uncommons with that same exact ability ASAP! Then I'll cut 4 of them, and we'll have 4 cards w/ this keyword for the rest of magic!"
I know WOTC has been keyword happy for quite some time, but I seriously reconsider playing this game every time they create a stupid keyword (or ability word) like this. Well, I'm off to assemble some contraptions. (angry face)
I'm pretty sure you're overreacting. It's actually a fairly weak, linear ability. I'm sure that some cards with it will be powerful, even very powerful, but not broken. It's nothing to poop over.
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Good luck, I don't know if it will work since you have to use the first ability to get the counter there in the first place, which requires you skip the turn you'll be gaining. It's a nice idea to puzzle over though, since we will almost definitely see more counter based cards now.
Except your can target planeswalkers with it. I think that makes it huge, and I agree this may become a broken keyword if it is too common. I am already getting Cascade flashbacks...
Keyword:
Proliferate (You choose any number of permanents and/or players with counters on them, then give each another counter of a kind already there)
Okay, now WTF is this?
The closest analogy of this is to Scry and Clash. Clash created a mini-game that was simple, risky, and somewhat fun. Had it appeared on more cards, or better costed cards, it'd have been one of the best mechancis we've had in a while.
Scry... was always clunky. But it's benifit is that it did something fairly simple that you'd like to see done in multiples. IE, it's pretty easy to come up with a dozen "fair" scry cards that use the keyword, and easier still to tack on this little "bonus" as an alternative to cantripping (Magma Jet!).
Now what's this little keyword do?
Well, apparently it lets you do EVERYTHING. It lets you choose ANY NUMBER of players/cards and add 1 counter of a type already there (Note, this isn't Proliferate X, like Bloodthirst X (IE - the "wait, that doesn't work under the rules except as an exception, and the exception is for this 1 card?)).
Now, yes, I could see a keyword like this:
Proliferate X (You choose up to X number of permanents and/or players with counters on them, then give each another counter of a kind already there)
Or:
Proliferate Y (Choose a permanent and/or player with counters on them, then give it Y more counters of a kind already there)
Either one of these would fit the "counters" theme, be fluid and variable (not unlike cycling), and be a great little "cantrip" style add on. How do you make your shock "cool"? Give it proliferate 1, of course!
But NO! This keyword does TOO MUCH. This is CLEARLY an ability that someone submitted on like 1 card (or a cycle of cards which they then changed into a keyword and then moves around) at the rare/mythic level and someone said "you know what? That's absolutely bat☺☺☺☺ insane! Give me 8 trash commons and uncommons with that same exact ability ASAP! Then I'll cut 4 of them, and we'll have 4 cards w/ this keyword for the rest of magic!"
I know WOTC has been keyword happy for quite some time, but I seriously reconsider playing this game every time they create a stupid keyword (or ability word) like this. Well, I'm off to assemble some contraptions. (angry face)
I dont think the ability is as busted as you seem to think it is. Its nice and all sure. But I would hardly call the card we've seen busted at all, and beyond that you are just speculating they are going to make some powerful card with it, which seems a little premature to me to be honest.
If the rest of the cards are only as good as Contagion Clasp, we have nothing to worry about.
Spending 4 mana to give a creature a -1/-1 counter is hardly broken.
You'll need to hit a player with a creature with infect if you want to do some poison damage.
If you play a planeswalker, proliferate is only good late in the game when you have enough mana to actually play the 'walker and activate proliferate. Wouldn't you rather have two planeswalkers than one that goes up +1 more every turn? And if you use proliferate on Garruk so that you can use him as Overrun the turn he comes down, he is open to being bolted.
Spending lots of mana every turn to make Everflowing Chalice better is bad tempo loss. It could be used, but it won't be abused.
You're being a spaz. There's nothing overpowered about this mechanic and it's going to appear on way more than four cards in this set (much less this block.) Adding a variable to this would just make it persnickety and overly complex -- 90% of the time there's going to be no difference between "Proliferate 3" and what we actually have as Proliferate, so there's no point in printing the mechanic that way.
This is absolutely abusable. There are lots of different counters and possibilities. This card is good. The keyword is nice. The "any number of", "permanents" and "players" in "choose any number of permanents and/or players" are the keywords here. Oran-Rief, The vastwood, poison, allies, sunburst, modular (if any), steel overseer, magosi the waterveil, level dudes are already good with it.
Prepare for a combo with it especially after other cards with proliferate.
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So, what this allows you to do in the most "general" game.
-Give any number of creatures an additional +1/+1 or -1/-1 counter. Okay, I could see that.
-Give some other permanents charge counters. Not so 'huge' any more but charge counters are the most common counter type besides the creature ones, it gives your vivid lands another chance at any color of mana goodness or can give you access to another ability sooner or something.
-Give any number of planeswalkers an additional loyalty counter. Sure, it's not that crazy and gets you one step closer to hitting that ultimate or something.
-Give any number of players an additional poison counter. This seems like the big one, if poison actually ends up being good, and with Infect it seems pretty solid already, then this could be used as a janky alternate win-con, but can also make you a huge target in multiplayer if everyone has poison counters, seems fun, not broken.
Proliferate seems like maybe a good keyword for a rare cycle, but not all over the place.
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If the rest of the cards are only as good as Contagion Clasp, we have nothing to worry about.
Spending 4 mana to give a creature a -1/-1 counter is hardly broken.
No, it's spending 4 mana to give a creature a -1/-1 counter, a 'walker another loyalty counter, a sunburst guy another +1/+1 counter (because we know how wizards likes to mix the + and - counters), and to give your opponent an extra poison counter. That's a lot for a measly 4 mana.
However, I agree that this is nowhere near overpowered. Proliferate seems like a "win more" keyword.
You don't like this ability though? I guess it's a bit wordy, but it's better than not using the keyword. If they want to print this on a rare with other abilities, it's going to need to be keyworded. It seems to fit right in with the block's theme, which is sure to be counters. (With the other two abilities known, we already have three different counters.)
Imagine you're playing a game of limited and someone has four different cards with Proliferate in their deck. They might also have some creatures with infect. After they hit you with poison counters, they start to activate their proliferate abilities. This could put you on a five turn clock, if they have lots of mana and two of these artifacts. It seems like a strong ability, and a fun ability, but not a completly overpowered ability. It's something that you have to build your deck around, which is good for every format.
This is just a different kind of pinger. Instead of pinging you for a point on your EOT, it pings you for a poison counter. Because let's face it, that's what it is primarily going to be used for. The fact it is overcosted at 4 mana activation is lessened by the fact it also is synergistic with all those -1 counters your infected critters put on the other guys critters.
Hardly broken. In fact, I would bet that even cheaper Proliferate cards will be forthcoming, probably on instants or sorceries or as creature activated abilities - or all of the above.
However, there is a lot of potential to make it broken if they try. If, say, Koth gets -1 to give a player a poison counter or something narrow like that, a cheap proliferate on something is going to have the potential to be very abusive.
I can't quite imagine what would actually be a -broken- interaction with this keyword, but it does have potential. They'll probably be overly cautious and not print any good ones.
It's a fun keyword, I'd like to see how it's going to be expanded upon. As it stands, the Clasp is ok, but at four mana it's kinda hard to do anything real powerful with it besides occasionally beef/weaken/poison something.
Except your can target planeswalkers with it. I think that makes it huge, and I agree this may become a broken keyword if it is too common. I am already getting Cascade flashbacks...
How does anything that the Proliferate keyword does relate to Cascade in anyway? This is an analogy beyond good sense; the reason Cascade could be considered a dangerous form of mechanical design is because it does one thing that in Magic's history has proven to stray into unpleasant territory: it gives you free spells. Proliferate is so separated from that the two do not even begin to compare.
And this is a lot of hyperbolic overreaction. Things are either too bad or way too good with people when demonstrated in a vacuum without proper frame of reference or even the slightest thought put into both application and progression of the aforementioned new element. Get a grip, people.
The potential with this ability isn't just that it beefs Planeswalkers and I don't feel it's just a win more. it allows you to put several options into your deck that by themselves wouldn't be as scary because they would all be too slow, but with poliferate you now have a way of speeding them all up. It's a way to play with infect creatures, planeswalkers, levelers, and charge/+1/+1 counter creatures in a mix and have the ability to pump all of them at the same time instead of having to worry about which ones to focus on.
Also this breaks levelers.
Remember back during RoE when levlers were considered fair because you were forced to make decisions? Now you only have to make that decision once then sit behind a bunch of prliferate abilities till the end of your oppoents turn and then fire them all off. With Voltaic Key you can do it multiple times, and this is just standard.
If we end up with a creature that has Proliferate than extended has umbral mantel that allows you do fire this off for as long as you have the 3 mana available to pay the mantles untap cost.
I am looking forward to this as it makes some options that weren't really seeing enough play (levelers) more powerful but I just think we're at some sort of critical mass here where this will get broken by someone.
Lastly, this will make that challace from RoE(?) more powerful as you can add more counters to it later to generate even more mana, but as someone else here stated, it will all depends on what the activation costs shake out to be on everything.
Try and think about Steel Overseer and Triskelion, and that we've just scratched the surface of the "artifact-iceberg". Add a walker or two and some poison counters and this ability is brookeeen :-P
Context is everything. Is Contagion Clasp broken? Not at all.
Do you have a crystal ball telling us what else it'll show up on? If so, please post these overpowered cards to the rumor mill, you'll be the hero of rumor season.
The effect sounds much better than it actually is. I think Proliferate is super unique, flavorful, and a great design.
I'm wondering if anybody considered the impact this mechanic can have on the eternal formats...
you know...
this mechanic allows some pretty sick things with an opponent's permanents
Aether Vial: you can effectively disable an opponent's deck by putting an additional counter on the vial... brutal when a deck that is build to vial at 2 suddenly has to acknowledge it can now only vial at 3, 4 or even more...
Not a broken interaction. Aether Vial is broken because it puts things into play without mana investment.
Chalice of the Void: if you know what you are doing you can add an additional charge counter and save your spells from being countered...
This sounds like an interesting strategic interaction, but is actually much less powerful than Counter-top.
Engineered Explosives: if you proliferate, you effectively disable the explosives... since you know that with 3 charge counters they are useless against your deck... so your opponent has to sacrifice the explosives in response to the proliferate trigger, in order to get some value out of it (instead of nothing)... effectively removing the thread for you... so you can play your 2cmc bomb safely...
Yeah, an interaction, but not one that makes engineered explosives any less useful. People still play it even though Ancient Grudge exists.
Smokestack: Adding an additional soot counter can mess up your opponent's game plan... you become the tempo player and in the end your opponent will suffer much more (or at least a turn sooner) from his own smokestack...
uh, if the staxx player has smokestack in play during his upkeep, isn't he kind of doing it wrong?
Elephant Grass: Adding a singel age counter on an opponent's permanent can make the payment of that card's cumulative upkeep cost impossible, making a whole class of cards unplayable or at least a lot less powerful than before
If using Proliferate once makes the opponent have to sacrifice a *** upkeep card, it was near the end of its lifespan anyway. You used a card to take out another card, albeit in a roundabout and conditional way. It's not that powerful of an interaction.
The spoiled artifact has a hefty activation cost... but still, even at that cost i think it can seriously shake up eternal formats... ha... the thing is, I'm pretty sure we will see cards with cheaper proliferate cost... and that could be a real problem for a lot of established decks... imagine a deck that benefits from putting counters on permanents and can at the same time make the best eternal staples from Mirrodin useless... SICKO
Nope. Contagion Clasp is never going to show up in competitive eternal formats. I'm guessing the most aggressive place Proliferate will appear would be on a two mana sorcery or a three mana instant. If it happens to fit perfectly in an existing archetype, it might get played, but personally I doubt it.
Proliferate (You choose any number of permanents and/or players with counters on them, then give each another counter of a kind already there)
Okay, now WTF is this?
The closest analogy of this is to Scry and Clash. Clash created a mini-game that was simple, risky, and somewhat fun. Had it appeared on more cards, or better costed cards, it'd have been one of the best mechancis we've had in a while.
Scry... was always clunky. But it's benifit is that it did something fairly simple that you'd like to see done in multiples. IE, it's pretty easy to come up with a dozen "fair" scry cards that use the keyword, and easier still to tack on this little "bonus" as an alternative to cantripping (Magma Jet!).
Now what's this little keyword do?
Well, apparently it lets you do EVERYTHING. It lets you choose ANY NUMBER of players/cards and add 1 counter of a type already there (Note, this isn't Proliferate X, like Bloodthirst X (IE - the "wait, that doesn't work under the rules except as an exception, and the exception is for this 1 card?)).
Now, yes, I could see a keyword like this:
Proliferate X (You choose up to X number of permanents and/or players with counters on them, then give each another counter of a kind already there)
Or:
Proliferate Y (Choose a permanent and/or player with counters on them, then give it Y more counters of a kind already there)
Either one of these would fit the "counters" theme, be fluid and variable (not unlike cycling), and be a great little "cantrip" style add on. How do you make your shock "cool"? Give it proliferate 1, of course!
But NO! This keyword does TOO MUCH. This is CLEARLY an ability that someone submitted on like 1 card (or a cycle of cards which they then changed into a keyword and then moves around) at the rare/mythic level and someone said "you know what? That's absolutely bat☺☺☺☺ insane! Give me 8 trash commons and uncommons with that same exact ability ASAP! Then I'll cut 4 of them, and we'll have 4 cards w/ this keyword for the rest of magic!"
I know WOTC has been keyword happy for quite some time, but I seriously reconsider playing this game every time they create a stupid keyword (or ability word) like this. Well, I'm off to assemble some contraptions. (angry face)
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...but I want to try and use this with Magosi, the Waterveil. Unfortunately the land returns to play when you take a free turn though.
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I dont think the ability is as busted as you seem to think it is. Its nice and all sure. But I would hardly call the card we've seen busted at all, and beyond that you are just speculating they are going to make some powerful card with it, which seems a little premature to me to be honest.
This ability is not going to be insane at all. Extremely fun, methinks, but not remotely broken unless Wizards gives us cards to break it with.
Overpowered? No, it may be cool to double up on poison, but not that crazy good.
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Spending 4 mana to give a creature a -1/-1 counter is hardly broken.
You'll need to hit a player with a creature with infect if you want to do some poison damage.
If you play a planeswalker, proliferate is only good late in the game when you have enough mana to actually play the 'walker and activate proliferate. Wouldn't you rather have two planeswalkers than one that goes up +1 more every turn? And if you use proliferate on Garruk so that you can use him as Overrun the turn he comes down, he is open to being bolted.
Spending lots of mana every turn to make Everflowing Chalice better is bad tempo loss. It could be used, but it won't be abused.
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Prepare for a combo with it especially after other cards with proliferate.
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and the "Major changes to Extended" in July 2010. You aborted our cards., but we approve of the Modern format. Even if it doesn't ha ve Carrion Feeder or Caller of the Claw in it.Dex: http://deckbox.org/users/Egementium_instructoid
-Give any number of creatures an additional +1/+1 or -1/-1 counter. Okay, I could see that.
-Give some other permanents charge counters. Not so 'huge' any more but charge counters are the most common counter type besides the creature ones, it gives your vivid lands another chance at any color of mana goodness or can give you access to another ability sooner or something.
-Give any number of planeswalkers an additional loyalty counter. Sure, it's not that crazy and gets you one step closer to hitting that ultimate or something.
-Give any number of players an additional poison counter. This seems like the big one, if poison actually ends up being good, and with Infect it seems pretty solid already, then this could be used as a janky alternate win-con, but can also make you a huge target in multiplayer if everyone has poison counters, seems fun, not broken.
Proliferate seems like maybe a good keyword for a rare cycle, but not all over the place.
No, it's spending 4 mana to give a creature a -1/-1 counter, a 'walker another loyalty counter, a sunburst guy another +1/+1 counter (because we know how wizards likes to mix the + and - counters), and to give your opponent an extra poison counter. That's a lot for a measly 4 mana.
However, I agree that this is nowhere near overpowered. Proliferate seems like a "win more" keyword.
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Imagine you're playing a game of limited and someone has four different cards with Proliferate in their deck. They might also have some creatures with infect. After they hit you with poison counters, they start to activate their proliferate abilities. This could put you on a five turn clock, if they have lots of mana and two of these artifacts. It seems like a strong ability, and a fun ability, but not a completly overpowered ability. It's something that you have to build your deck around, which is good for every format.
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Hardly broken. In fact, I would bet that even cheaper Proliferate cards will be forthcoming, probably on instants or sorceries or as creature activated abilities - or all of the above.
However, there is a lot of potential to make it broken if they try. If, say, Koth gets -1 to give a player a poison counter or something narrow like that, a cheap proliferate on something is going to have the potential to be very abusive.
I can't quite imagine what would actually be a -broken- interaction with this keyword, but it does have potential. They'll probably be overly cautious and not print any good ones.
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How does anything that the Proliferate keyword does relate to Cascade in anyway? This is an analogy beyond good sense; the reason Cascade could be considered a dangerous form of mechanical design is because it does one thing that in Magic's history has proven to stray into unpleasant territory: it gives you free spells. Proliferate is so separated from that the two do not even begin to compare.
And this is a lot of hyperbolic overreaction. Things are either too bad or way too good with people when demonstrated in a vacuum without proper frame of reference or even the slightest thought put into both application and progression of the aforementioned new element. Get a grip, people.
LOL
Also this breaks levelers.
Remember back during RoE when levlers were considered fair because you were forced to make decisions? Now you only have to make that decision once then sit behind a bunch of prliferate abilities till the end of your oppoents turn and then fire them all off. With Voltaic Key you can do it multiple times, and this is just standard.
If we end up with a creature that has Proliferate than extended has umbral mantel that allows you do fire this off for as long as you have the 3 mana available to pay the mantles untap cost.
I am looking forward to this as it makes some options that weren't really seeing enough play (levelers) more powerful but I just think we're at some sort of critical mass here where this will get broken by someone.
Lastly, this will make that challace from RoE(?) more powerful as you can add more counters to it later to generate even more mana, but as someone else here stated, it will all depends on what the activation costs shake out to be on everything.
Context is everything. Is Contagion Clasp broken? Not at all.
Do you have a crystal ball telling us what else it'll show up on? If so, please post these overpowered cards to the rumor mill, you'll be the hero of rumor season.
The effect sounds much better than it actually is. I think Proliferate is super unique, flavorful, and a great design.
Not a broken interaction. Aether Vial is broken because it puts things into play without mana investment.
This sounds like an interesting strategic interaction, but is actually much less powerful than Counter-top.
Yeah, an interaction, but not one that makes engineered explosives any less useful. People still play it even though Ancient Grudge exists.
uh, if the staxx player has smokestack in play during his upkeep, isn't he kind of doing it wrong?
If using Proliferate once makes the opponent have to sacrifice a *** upkeep card, it was near the end of its lifespan anyway. You used a card to take out another card, albeit in a roundabout and conditional way. It's not that powerful of an interaction.
Nope. Contagion Clasp is never going to show up in competitive eternal formats. I'm guessing the most aggressive place Proliferate will appear would be on a two mana sorcery or a three mana instant. If it happens to fit perfectly in an existing archetype, it might get played, but personally I doubt it.