Hello, all. So when I saw the new M11 Fauna Shaman, I immediately thought of Survival of the Fittest and its synergy with Sneak Attack. Is there another (cheaper) version of Sneak? If so, I'd like to plan out a new deck abusing the two. Mwahaha.
Elvish Piper? i dunno, not too much in terms of cheating guys into play from your hand. most of the mana cheating cards take a creature directly out of your deck.
All I know is that this guy is asking to broken. Sure you can only activate the ability once per turn, but sometimes that's enough. I'd try to find some way of abusing him extremely early, probably in a U/G build like the original survival. Isn't there a functional Man o' War in M11?
All I know is that this guy is asking to broken. Sure you can only activate the ability once per turn, but sometimes that's enough. I'd try to find some way of abusing him extremely early, probably in a U/G build like the original survival. Isn't there a functional Man o' War in M11?
there is not a functional man o' war, however there is a card thats the same but costs 1UU sorry im one of those people thats really getting tired of that term being misused
but if your saying that this card might work in a tool box type deck with creature that have etbf effects, then yeah, that would be a good use for that card
I would do something silly like immediately search for another fauna shaman for backup, then search for a squadron hawk, play it to get 3 more, and then play a bunch of tutored for obstinate baloths to offset my life loss while setting this up.
Of course this is all meaningless with there being about 12 removal spells in every standard deck.
I would do something silly like immediately search for another fauna shaman for backup, then search for a squadron hawk, play it to get 3 more, and then play a bunch of tutored for obstinate baloths to offset my life loss while setting this up.
Of course this is all meaningless with there being about 12 removal spells in every standard deck.
True and not true. And besides, if your opponent Paths this on their turn before you use it, you just purchased Rampant Growth that also made them discard a card. The fact that it is a 2/2 for two with an amazing ability makes it a removal target, for sure, but that sort of power never stopped Dark Confidant from being extremely good (it was a 2/1 for 2, but you get the idea). I, for one, do not think there will be an excessive amount of removal in Standard post rotation, and the loss of Path to many control decks is hugely relevant because it removes one of their most cost effective ways to deal with powerful utility creatures. As for Red and Black, they still have a multitude of ways to kill something, but there's no point in being afraid of playing good cards that have answers; if that was the case Baneslayer Angel would not see any play. I think this card is absolutely amazing, insane combos or not.
Singleton Scute Mob and Dragonmaster Outcast pair well with the Primeval Titan as he zooms the lands out that you need to have these guys be effective, having only one of each should be ok, assuming Fauna Shaman gets to tutor effectively.
Vengevine is a no brainer with Fauna, it's most effectively abused here with plenty of small creatures, BBE cascading and such. Just imagine chucking a Vengevine to tutor a BBE and then cascading into some other creature and swinging for 7.
Sun Titan to bring back all the cards you've discarded from the Shaman.
Mitotic Slime, just because I want to play with this awesome card.
Also, the argument X creature sucks because X deck has tons of removal is completely and utterly unsound, this is demonstrated by the fact that Conscripted Bant is such a winning deck. If said argument were sound, the decks like Conscripted Bant would never get off the ground. I've pounded plenty a Jund and U/W deck with Conscripted Bant numerous times, despite all of their removal.
Thoughts... suggestions?
Oh whats that Timmy? You are on your 4th Fauna Shaman (or random other creature you can't live without) and they have killed every other one hmm. Well I guess I have a trick for you! Throw away that old Emrakul you fetched last turn and get a brand spanking new creature from your graveyard which is now your library!
Im just looking for some constructive critiscism for my deck. I've been wanting to get into competetive play lately so i need help figuring out if my deck is good enough to play at FNM.
Looks like an excellent way to abuse both Vengevine, Bloodghast, and possibly Reassembling Skeleton. As I see it, it's a better balanced Survival of the Fittest, but my fear would be if it lived until turn 3. The most necessitated "toolbox" inclusions would be a Primeval Titan(and any other on color titans) and Kozilek (for shuffling or possible end game). It's a neat idea, but would get wrecked by the myriad of RDW running around.
Shaman is good, but not build-around-me good. He's too fragile, dies to everything and most of the time it won't get to use his ability. I know this is true for most creatures, but you don't make subpar deck choices for those. It can be played to good effect in some naya aggro build (which plays vengevines and bloodbraid anyways), monogreen or some midrange deck, but forget about kozilek, elvish piper, reassembling skeletons, squadron hawks and the like. If you get to discard an extra land late game and get a bloodbraid or a finisher you already got enough CA out of him.
This exactly, just casually chucking it into your naya deck is amasing as it is a two cost that most the time will eat a removal and you can look at it as 'my 2 mana dork soaked up their 2 mana removal(or 1 mana if they red, or you get a bonus vs path)' which is a good deal in itself, and on the off chance they cant just ditch all your vengevines for bbe win, even if you dont have a vengey in hand you could cast a ranger of eos and discard one of the 1 drops you got or whatever
For any deck using the Fauna Shaman, it seems downright silly not to use 2 card slots in a deck for a singleton elvish piper and Emrakul.
I'm not gonna try to piece together a deck just yet, but I'm pretty these cards make fantastic singleton silver bullets -
Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Emrakul
Kor Firewalker
Sphinx of Jwar Isle
Conundrum Sphinx
Iona
Obviously, the meta will determine what singletons you need to run, but the point of survival of the fittest decks was the ability to tutor creatures that best dealt with the board situation.
Kor Firewalker lost most of it's mojo with Leyline of Punishment, so it's not as valuable against red decks anymore. However, Obstinate takes it's place nicely.
If you want, stick Plummet in the sideboard for Hellspark Elemental as well as against U/W control. Even if there's no target off a Bloodbraid Elf hit, you can refuse to cast it and shuffle everything back up with your next Fauna use.
I think he is too fragile to build a deck around, but playing him as a 1 or 2 of in a deck saturated with mana dorks makes the most sense. Elves like him because he is one more removal target, and if left unchecked, he turns every late game Llanowar Elves draw into a Wolfbriar Elemental or Joraga Warcaller. He turns every late game Noble Hierarch into Knight of the Reliquary for Bant/Naya, etc. etc. etc.
one stupid question tough : Does the opponent can respond after the discard and so do not let you finish the ability ? (just need a confirmation)
Certainly, assuming you're playing vintage, legacy, or extended. The only way it can be stopped after the ability is put onto the stack is with a Stifle, Trickbind, or another similar card and there isn't a card with that capability in standard currently.
Ahh, the good old "It dies to removal" Argument. It really never gets old.
There are three reasons it doesn't apply though.
1. Yes, it dies to removal. So does everything else. Is Baneslayer Angel too fragile to play because it dies to Path, Doom, Plummet, Pulse, Ring, etc.?
2. If the opponent uses up his removal on him, he will have less removal to use on other cards, such as actual threats like BBE, Vengevine, Titans, Knights, Baloths, Scute Mob or Dragonmaster (Tokens).
3. You don't really require many cards to "make it work". Vengevine works with him, but you'd play this card regardless. The only card in there that makes it work is Squadron Hawk, and the Hawk is in my opinion an underrated card and has a few upsides besides providing additional bodies to throw into the Shaman:
a) Playing a Squadron Hawk virtually guarantees being able to recur a Vengevine whenever desired.
b) He's an evasive threat in a deck that has probably very little. He may be small, but in a ground stall he can deal some damage with the support of Exalted.
c) He provides an array of expendable flying blockers.
d) He provides some additional hand cards against discard decks which you don't mind having to discard.
The "it dies to removal" argument is better against this card than Baneslayer. Many (non-mythic) decks that run BSA only have it and Wall of Omens as creatures, and sometimes BSA is boarded out. This causes the opponent to question whether or not he should leave in his removal. This could lead to bad boarding decisions, and the more questions your opponent is asking himself, the more he is bogged down, the more he is unable to dedicate cognitive resources to other features of the game. (This is how Bobby Fischer thought the Russian tournament organizers were "cheating": they were giving him too many hard matchups in a row. You may think "chess is chess" and that one round shouldn't influence another, but how much you think about one game has a bearing on how well you can think about the next.) However, with the decks that support this creature, there is no question that the opponent will leave in his removal, and he is likely to board in additional removal.
Also, factor in that many aggro deck players keep sloppy hands as long as they have early threats, with the hopes they'll draw better spells. (In Japan Nationals, a T8 RDW player kept a hand with Flame Slash, Hellspark, and five lands vs. Jund.) Removal against these sorts of hands can be much more devastating. And rarely would anyone keep the five land, BSA, random card hand.
Also, Kor Skyfisher is a card that permits Vengevine recursion at any time. Players recognized that it was subpar, and have decided to remove it from their lists, both Naya and NLB. And Skyfisher doesn't lead to DoJ blowouts, as playing double Hawk to get Vengevine would.
But Shaman is pretty good, as it creates an intimidating board presence. Another boon: it costs two, and some suggested lists only run KoR as a three drop. This means you're more likely to have something to do w/ your third and fifth turns. Perhaps the optimal play would be this guy t2, hawk and tutor t3. But the trouble is that if you go search for Vengevine t3 pitching a hawk, you won't be able to, say, t4 tutor for BBE and cast it. I guess you could tutor for a Hierarch, cast Hierarch, cast Hawk, attack for 5 w/ Veng?
This can't be the best though, because then you'd only deal 5 dmg by turn 4. How is this strategy better than casting Putrid Leach turn 2?
I see a card that makes Bloodghasts, Extractor Demons, Vengevines, and Black Suicide cards much more dangerous. Is it necessary to win? No. I think "Building" around any 1 single card is setting yourself up to fail. But I think Black Green is going to become the new Jund in the next few years. By that I mean, a mid-ranged aggro deck with a LOT of two-for 1 type effects (albeit, this will be through other means) and a lot of versatility.
Here would be a preliminary thought of my decklist.
I keep seeing black green, and it's looking like it's becoming better and better with 2011 coming in.
there is not a functional man o' war, however there is a card thats the same but costs 1UU sorry im one of those people thats really getting tired of that term being misused
but if your saying that this card might work in a tool box type deck with creature that have etbf effects, then yeah, that would be a good use for that card
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpgjnU7C3Aw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe7kkZixasc
Of course this is all meaningless with there being about 12 removal spells in every standard deck.
True and not true. And besides, if your opponent Paths this on their turn before you use it, you just purchased Rampant Growth that also made them discard a card. The fact that it is a 2/2 for two with an amazing ability makes it a removal target, for sure, but that sort of power never stopped Dark Confidant from being extremely good (it was a 2/1 for 2, but you get the idea). I, for one, do not think there will be an excessive amount of removal in Standard post rotation, and the loss of Path to many control decks is hugely relevant because it removes one of their most cost effective ways to deal with powerful utility creatures. As for Red and Black, they still have a multitude of ways to kill something, but there's no point in being afraid of playing good cards that have answers; if that was the case Baneslayer Angel would not see any play. I think this card is absolutely amazing, insane combos or not.
1 Dragonmaster Outcast
1 Scute Mob
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Lotus Cobra
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Vengevine
4 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Mitotic Slime
3 Sun Titan
1 Primeval Titan
4 Forest
2 Mountain
3 Plains
4 Arid Mesa
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Raging Ravine
3 Sunpetal Grove
2 Rootbound Crag
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Sejiri Steppe
4 Kor Firewalker
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Cunning Sparkmage
2 Day of Judgment
3 Oblivion Ring
Some quick notes about card choices:
Singleton Scute Mob and Dragonmaster Outcast pair well with the Primeval Titan as he zooms the lands out that you need to have these guys be effective, having only one of each should be ok, assuming Fauna Shaman gets to tutor effectively.
Vengevine is a no brainer with Fauna, it's most effectively abused here with plenty of small creatures, BBE cascading and such. Just imagine chucking a Vengevine to tutor a BBE and then cascading into some other creature and swinging for 7.
Sun Titan to bring back all the cards you've discarded from the Shaman.
Mitotic Slime, just because I want to play with this awesome card.
Also, the argument X creature sucks because X deck has tons of removal is completely and utterly unsound, this is demonstrated by the fact that Conscripted Bant is such a winning deck. If said argument were sound, the decks like Conscripted Bant would never get off the ground. I've pounded plenty a Jund and U/W deck with Conscripted Bant numerous times, despite all of their removal.
Thoughts... suggestions?
Thanks to Sgt. Chubbz!
Standard
RRDWR
RG Valakut Titan Ramp GR
Umm, you have to discard a creature card..
This exactly, just casually chucking it into your naya deck is amasing as it is a two cost that most the time will eat a removal and you can look at it as 'my 2 mana dork soaked up their 2 mana removal(or 1 mana if they red, or you get a bonus vs path)' which is a good deal in itself, and on the off chance they cant just ditch all your vengevines for bbe win, even if you dont have a vengey in hand you could cast a ranger of eos and discard one of the 1 drops you got or whatever
I'm not gonna try to piece together a deck just yet, but I'm pretty these cards make fantastic singleton silver bullets -
Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Emrakul
Kor Firewalker
Sphinx of Jwar Isle
Conundrum Sphinx
Iona
Obviously, the meta will determine what singletons you need to run, but the point of survival of the fittest decks was the ability to tutor creatures that best dealt with the board situation.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
If you want, stick Plummet in the sideboard for Hellspark Elemental as well as against U/W control. Even if there's no target off a Bloodbraid Elf hit, you can refuse to cast it and shuffle everything back up with your next Fauna use.
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Current Deck(s):
GUElvesUG
GWBThe Birthing RockBWG
Certainly, assuming you're playing vintage, legacy, or extended. The only way it can be stopped after the ability is put onto the stack is with a Stifle, Trickbind, or another similar card and there isn't a card with that capability in standard currently.
Currently Playing:
I don't even know right now.
The "it dies to removal" argument is better against this card than Baneslayer. Many (non-mythic) decks that run BSA only have it and Wall of Omens as creatures, and sometimes BSA is boarded out. This causes the opponent to question whether or not he should leave in his removal. This could lead to bad boarding decisions, and the more questions your opponent is asking himself, the more he is bogged down, the more he is unable to dedicate cognitive resources to other features of the game. (This is how Bobby Fischer thought the Russian tournament organizers were "cheating": they were giving him too many hard matchups in a row. You may think "chess is chess" and that one round shouldn't influence another, but how much you think about one game has a bearing on how well you can think about the next.) However, with the decks that support this creature, there is no question that the opponent will leave in his removal, and he is likely to board in additional removal.
Also, factor in that many aggro deck players keep sloppy hands as long as they have early threats, with the hopes they'll draw better spells. (In Japan Nationals, a T8 RDW player kept a hand with Flame Slash, Hellspark, and five lands vs. Jund.) Removal against these sorts of hands can be much more devastating. And rarely would anyone keep the five land, BSA, random card hand.
Also, Kor Skyfisher is a card that permits Vengevine recursion at any time. Players recognized that it was subpar, and have decided to remove it from their lists, both Naya and NLB. And Skyfisher doesn't lead to DoJ blowouts, as playing double Hawk to get Vengevine would.
But Shaman is pretty good, as it creates an intimidating board presence. Another boon: it costs two, and some suggested lists only run KoR as a three drop. This means you're more likely to have something to do w/ your third and fifth turns. Perhaps the optimal play would be this guy t2, hawk and tutor t3. But the trouble is that if you go search for Vengevine t3 pitching a hawk, you won't be able to, say, t4 tutor for BBE and cast it. I guess you could tutor for a Hierarch, cast Hierarch, cast Hawk, attack for 5 w/ Veng?
This can't be the best though, because then you'd only deal 5 dmg by turn 4. How is this strategy better than casting Putrid Leach turn 2?
Here would be a preliminary thought of my decklist.
I keep seeing black green, and it's looking like it's becoming better and better with 2011 coming in.
4x Fauna Shaman
4x Bloodghast
3x Fleshbag marauder
2x Extractor Demon
4x Gatekeeper of Malikir
4x Rotting Rats
4x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Vines of Vastwood
4x Grim Discovery
I feel like this would be a pretty good deck without Fauna Shaman. But the Shaman just makes it 10x better by default.