This card is terrible. It costs 7, dies to Baneslayer and sweepers and gets chumped all day long. If he had trample or something he would be playable, but without it he's just garbage. Sledge isn't terribly good with it because you would need to wait until next turn to equip it. This card really needed trample.
Things that cost over 5 mana really need to win you the game in short order, and this just doesn't unless you were already winning.
A haste 8/5, can't be targeted by nongreen or countered doesn't win you the game in short order? Since most people will be unprepared for this card when it hits, I think 8 to the face on turn 5-7 can win you the game pretty quick. In fact it's probably all you need to win the game during those turns.
It dies to sweepers? Sure, after you've already swung in for 8 damage. Then again how many creatures played in standard don't die to sweepers? Barely any.
Dies to BSA? Sure but if they're holding back their BSA, it means they didn't attack with it once, which means you just played an 8/5 that is hard to get rid of, and gained you 5 life and dealt 5 to them (since it negated the damage to you and life gain for them by not attacking). Essentially, it is putting you in control of the game because if they hold back, that means that they fear the unsuspecting damage from this guy. If they don't hold back and only leave a lonely Wall of Omens back, I can think of a bunch of few cheap ways to kill the Wall (Flame Slash, Combust, Doom Blade) and swing in for 8.
Not having trample, hurts it, yes. But for 7 mana, an 8/5 haste, can't be countered, can't be targeted by pretty much any removal in standard is pretty decent in my book. Plus it's tied for the largest creature ever printed with haste (Hellkite Overlord).
this is a card with the ability to massively punish control decks. its a total nightmare for some types of decks to deal with. however, other decks, where this should be strong, are better equipped to handle this than you would like.
against UB this is basically just as ridiculous as Great Sable Stag, just bigger.
against UW this is either amazingly awesome or almost useless, depending on circumstances. Its amazingly awesome as a play after they board sweep with Day of Judgment. then you just bash them for 8 with haste and they can't kill it with spot removal. thats great. its embarassingly bad if they've got a baneslayer angel in play that you can't kill with something else. thats weaksauce. its also embarassingly bad if they swept the board with Martial Coup or if they're running a blocker based defense with abundant chumps (or tokens) to gum up the board.
and of course against other beatdown decks this is quite weak. you might get a 2-for-1 blocking trade sometimes (which is ok, but ok for a 4 drop, not for a 7 drop), or you might just get him chumped 4 turns in a row by Sprouting Thrinax. kinda terrible.
the card is powerful but i can't see wanting this in the maindeck because the circumstances where it is terrible are somewhat common in today's metagame. thats unfortunate because I do like the card alot.
well it's already smashed face once by the time it's been hit by maelstrom pulse, but i think the discussion went that way because of jund's popularity. the real answer to this card is the instant speed bant charm. time will tell if next level bant picks up more than one or two copies of the charm.
every color you could splash has ways to supplement the lack of trample on this card, including mono green. there are quite a few instant speed spells you can play at their EOT to clear the board and/or set up a clear path, like volcanic fallout, lavaball trap, comet storm, consume the meek, or reality spasm. you can set it up on your turn before you play gaea's revenge with planeswalkers like garruk wildspeaker and gideon jura. and of course, eldrazi monument does the job too. canopy cover and behemoth sledge seem good, but it's hard to expect to use them the turn gaea's revenge comes into play. don't hold your breath on stuff you have to pay mana for on the same turn when you've already paid 7 mana to play this guy.
the lack of trample is an obstacle but not a deal breaker, and the haste makes it so much better than kalonian behemoth vs planeswalkers. in fact, the haste will often make any opponent at 8 or less life paranoid enough to always leave a creature back in defense, which can make that opponent squirm in his or her chair a little, and put a smile on your face... especially when you have EOT removal to clear the way anyway.
I see this guy doing great things in G/B. With Joraga Treespeaker, Garruk, and Cultivate, we can get up to the higher echelons of mana pretty easily, and black already has excellent tools to stall the game against both aggro (Inquisition, Doom Blade, Consuming Vapors) and control (Duress, Mind Shatter), plus an instant-speed sweeper (Consume the Meek) to clear the way for this guy to come down. (Not to mention a few pieces of planeswalkerremoval.)
As a connoisseur of fun, interesting matches, I still to this day have not been able to craft that "perfect deck"; the deck that I can play and have fun over time, doesn't get boring, but simultaneously is fun to play against. I honestly don't think it exists. It's like a unicorn. A ninja unicorn.
A haste 8/5, can't be targeted by nongreen or countered doesn't win you the game in short order? Since most people will be unprepared for this card when it hits, I think 8 to the face on turn 5-7 can win you the game pretty quick. In fact it's probably all you need to win the game during those turns.
It dies to sweepers? Sure, after you've already swung in for 8 damage. Then again how many creatures played in standard don't die to sweepers? Barely any.
Dies to BSA? Sure but if they're holding back their BSA, it means they didn't attack with it once, which means you just played an 8/5 that is hard to get rid of, and gained you 5 life and dealt 5 to them (since it negated the damage to you and life gain for them by not attacking). Essentially, it is putting you in control of the game because if they hold back, that means that they fear the unsuspecting damage from this guy. If they don't hold back and only leave a lonely Wall of Omens back, I can think of a bunch of few cheap ways to kill the Wall (Flame Slash, Combust, Doom Blade) and swing in for 8.
Not having trample, hurts it, yes. But for 7 mana, an 8/5 haste, can't be countered, can't be targeted by pretty much any removal in standard is pretty decent in my book. Plus it's tied for the largest creature ever printed with haste (Hellkite Overlord).
Hellkite is infinitely better than this and sees no play. Anything else?
Hellkite is infinitely better than this and sees no play. Anything else?
And it costs 1 more, is in 3 colors, and doesn't protect itself without you keeping 2 different colored mana up. And it can be countered. Yeah Overlord is pumpable and has evasion but unfortunately it's probably not played because Broodmate is in Jund colors, is easier to cast and generates 8 power of creatures.
This fits as an anti-control card that I could see giving them a huge amount of trouble.
If you want the field to be clear to swing with him then just splash a color to pack some mass removal.
If you are facing against control then most likely you play this wisely and cast it after they just used a mass removal spell so he can go in for free damage.
If you're just throwing him in any random deck and expecting him to get past any kind of aggro army (which seems to be what most people think since they keep mentioning 1/1's blocking him) then you're probably playing the wrong card to begin with. This isn't meant for anti-aggro. Hence the text stating can't be countered and the almost troll shroud.
If the deck doesn't support him, at the very least he is a superb sideboard card against most control decks.
This guy is horrible. I don't have to target or remove him. I can block him down all day with my tokens.
Honestly if you haven't seen the amount of decks now packing eldrazi monument then you're just blind to where standard is really going. If this guy had trample I'd be ok with him being mythic. Haste is not a good mechanic on a this big of a creature. You want your hasters to be small and low CMC. By the time this guy comes out the board is going to be completely cluttered. Who the hell cares that I can't counter him if I can still doj which btw hurts green the most.
Just as others have pointed out avenger of zendikar is better. The green titan is better for 1 less CMC and btw has trample.
Yeah, like Vengevine people are complaining and ruling him out. I picked up Vengeys at $22 each and am VERY happy with them. If you want to overlook so I can pick these up cheap and beat your face in with them, all the better for me.
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A haste 8/5, can't be targeted by nongreen or countered doesn't win you the game in short order? Since most people will be unprepared for this card when it hits, I think 8 to the face on turn 5-7 can win you the game pretty quick. In fact it's probably all you need to win the game during those turns.
It dies to sweepers? Sure, after you've already swung in for 8 damage. Then again how many creatures played in standard don't die to sweepers? Barely any.
Dies to BSA? Sure but if they're holding back their BSA, it means they didn't attack with it once, which means you just played an 8/5 that is hard to get rid of, and gained you 5 life and dealt 5 to them (since it negated the damage to you and life gain for them by not attacking). Essentially, it is putting you in control of the game because if they hold back, that means that they fear the unsuspecting damage from this guy. If they don't hold back and only leave a lonely Wall of Omens back, I can think of a bunch of few cheap ways to kill the Wall (Flame Slash, Combust, Doom Blade) and swing in for 8.
Not having trample, hurts it, yes. But for 7 mana, an 8/5 haste, can't be countered, can't be targeted by pretty much any removal in standard is pretty decent in my book. Plus it's tied for the largest creature ever printed with haste (Hellkite Overlord).
against UB this is basically just as ridiculous as Great Sable Stag, just bigger.
against UW this is either amazingly awesome or almost useless, depending on circumstances. Its amazingly awesome as a play after they board sweep with Day of Judgment. then you just bash them for 8 with haste and they can't kill it with spot removal. thats great. its embarassingly bad if they've got a baneslayer angel in play that you can't kill with something else. thats weaksauce. its also embarassingly bad if they swept the board with Martial Coup or if they're running a blocker based defense with abundant chumps (or tokens) to gum up the board.
and of course against other beatdown decks this is quite weak. you might get a 2-for-1 blocking trade sometimes (which is ok, but ok for a 4 drop, not for a 7 drop), or you might just get him chumped 4 turns in a row by Sprouting Thrinax. kinda terrible.
the card is powerful but i can't see wanting this in the maindeck because the circumstances where it is terrible are somewhat common in today's metagame. thats unfortunate because I do like the card alot.
every color you could splash has ways to supplement the lack of trample on this card, including mono green. there are quite a few instant speed spells you can play at their EOT to clear the board and/or set up a clear path, like volcanic fallout, lavaball trap, comet storm, consume the meek, or reality spasm. you can set it up on your turn before you play gaea's revenge with planeswalkers like garruk wildspeaker and gideon jura. and of course, eldrazi monument does the job too. canopy cover and behemoth sledge seem good, but it's hard to expect to use them the turn gaea's revenge comes into play. don't hold your breath on stuff you have to pay mana for on the same turn when you've already paid 7 mana to play this guy.
the lack of trample is an obstacle but not a deal breaker, and the haste makes it so much better than kalonian behemoth vs planeswalkers. in fact, the haste will often make any opponent at 8 or less life paranoid enough to always leave a creature back in defense, which can make that opponent squirm in his or her chair a little, and put a smile on your face... especially when you have EOT removal to clear the way anyway.
Can you imagine Momentous Fall in a deck with this and Abyssal Persecutor?
Alternately: play him in white with Day of Judgment/Martial Coup and Gideon Jura. Maybe throw a Behemoth Sledge in there.
Hellkite is infinitely better than this and sees no play. Anything else?
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Exactly. This thing is nasty nasty. Also, if you get an umbra on this guy, TWO day of Judgements will be needed to take him out.
Baneslayer really isn't a good arguement as adding just 1 to it's toughness isn't going to be a problem with Exaulted and Umbra modifiers.
Bahemoth Sledge powers this guy up real quick too and adds that trample.
And it costs 1 more, is in 3 colors, and doesn't protect itself without you keeping 2 different colored mana up. And it can be countered. Yeah Overlord is pumpable and has evasion but unfortunately it's probably not played because Broodmate is in Jund colors, is easier to cast and generates 8 power of creatures.
This fits as an anti-control card that I could see giving them a huge amount of trouble.
If you are facing against control then most likely you play this wisely and cast it after they just used a mass removal spell so he can go in for free damage.
If you're just throwing him in any random deck and expecting him to get past any kind of aggro army (which seems to be what most people think since they keep mentioning 1/1's blocking him) then you're probably playing the wrong card to begin with. This isn't meant for anti-aggro. Hence the text stating can't be countered and the almost troll shroud.
If the deck doesn't support him, at the very least he is a superb sideboard card against most control decks.
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Honestly if you haven't seen the amount of decks now packing eldrazi monument then you're just blind to where standard is really going. If this guy had trample I'd be ok with him being mythic. Haste is not a good mechanic on a this big of a creature. You want your hasters to be small and low CMC. By the time this guy comes out the board is going to be completely cluttered. Who the hell cares that I can't counter him if I can still doj which btw hurts green the most.
Just as others have pointed out avenger of zendikar is better. The green titan is better for 1 less CMC and btw has trample.
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