Does anyone else think this card is potentially really good? Yes, it sucks if it gets countered. Yes, it auto loses to Wrath. But in general, it actually seems like a pretty good finisher. The fact that it makes two tokens makes it resistant to removal, and the fact that at least one of them is likely to live and join whatever forces you already have on the table makes it seem hard to stop as a game ender.
ATTACHMENTS
0140_MTGROE_EN_LR
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If God spoke to you, and commanded you to kill your own children, would you do it?
If your answer is "No," then your morality does not come from God's commandments.
If your answer is "Yes," then please, please reconsider.
It would need to belong to a Heavy Green / Light Red deck, Green to get the lands you want and the trample you need, red for this.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
URG I am a creative and exuberant individual; a lover of knowledge and enthusiast of rationality. The things that I value in life are learning, friendship, and passion; it is with these factors that I attain a great deal of information and companions. My goal in life is to have fun learning as much as I possibly can while enjoying all there is within the world. At my best I'm insightful, imaginative, and powerful; at my worst I'm volatile, uncontrollable, and childish.
Enables a turn 3 standard kill with decent regularity.
Turn 1: Steppe Lynx
Turn 2: Fethcland, Swing with Lynx, cast Nacatl/Lynx 2, swing with first Lynx (opponent at 16)
Turn 3: Crack fetchland, float 3 mana. Cast Devastating Summons at x = 2. Cast Goblin Bushwacker with kicker. Swing for 17 (5 Lynx, 3 Token, 3 Token, 2 Bushwacker, 4 Nacatl)
Obviously countermagic and removal cause problems with this plan, but the blazing speed alone merits consideration.
-ktkenshinx-
stupid counterspells they always ruin games! oh wait I'm the one who is getting swarmed by this ok lol.
but yeah just the fact you can sac the lands to get two X/X guys and get a Bushwacker off kicker is sick. I like it, red doesn't seem to be losing speed and if people hate this spell getting countered side it out
Enables a turn 3 standard kill with decent regularity.
Turn 1: Steppe Lynx
Turn 2: Fethcland, Swing with Lynx, cast Nacatl/Lynx 2, swing with first Lynx (opponent at 16)
Turn 3: Crack fetchland, float 3 mana. Cast Devastating Summons at x = 2. Cast Goblin Bushwacker with kicker. Swing for 17 (5 Lynx, 3 Token, 3 Token, 2 Bushwacker, 4 Nacatl)
Obviously countermagic and removal cause problems with this plan, but the blazing speed alone merits consideration.
-ktkenshinx-
That's a good point...at almost any point in the game, this + bushwhacker = instant win out of nowhere. You could get as much as 19 damage on the swing you described; and while that isn't typical, just turn 3 bushwhacker + this is 10 damage added to whatever else you have on the table.
Edit:
Turn 1: Goblin Guide (18)
Turn 2: Any creature with 2 power (16)
Turn 3: Bushwacker + This (0)
If they have removal and / or a blocker, they can live to turn 4 through this start...but unless they can stop both the two elemental tokens and the other creatures, it's not looking good.
Turn 1: Goblin Guide (18) (-> opponent plays land)
Turn 2: Any creature with 2 power (16) (-> opponent plays a blocker)
Turn 3: Bushwacker + This, swing (8) (opponent chumps one token, casts removal on the other token, untaps and lays another creature)
Turn 4: Swing with bushwacker, guide, friend, and remaining token for 9. Play a land and chuck burn at face if necessary. Giggle maniacally.
This is one of my top favorite cards in the set, because of its versatility. You can play it early game, to decent effect, or you can play it late game, and end it. It can fit in U/R counterburn, 4-5CC, mono-red burn, Boros, g/r VengeFall (yes, that WILL be a competitive deck) the list goes on and on. Easily a 5$ card.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
About Mindslaver rulings:
Quote from ebcubs03 »
so if i am that player do i get to sleep with his girlfriend ?
URG I am a creative and exuberant individual; a lover of knowledge and enthusiast of rationality. The things that I value in life are learning, friendship, and passion; it is with these factors that I attain a great deal of information and companions. My goal in life is to have fun learning as much as I possibly can while enjoying all there is within the world. At my best I'm insightful, imaginative, and powerful; at my worst I'm volatile, uncontrollable, and childish.
Geopede with room made for fetches wouldnt be better?
No reason you couldn't run both. I think Ball Lightning and Hellspark elemental are a little ambitious and could potentially be downgraded or cut. They also don't synergize well with other deck elements (bushwacker / summons). If the deck runs enough burn, Kiln Fiend is a must block threat.
A boros list running Lynx, Geopede, and fetchlands would probably work as well or better, though, and already runs the bushwacker.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If God spoke to you, and commanded you to kill your own children, would you do it?
If your answer is "No," then your morality does not come from God's commandments.
If your answer is "Yes," then please, please reconsider.
No reason you couldn't run both. I think Ball Lightning and Hellspark elemental are a little ambitious and could potentially be downgraded or cut. They also don't synergize well with other deck elements (bushwacker / summons). If the deck runs enough burn, Kiln Fiend is a must block threat.
A boros list running Lynx, Geopede, and fetchlands would probably work as well or better, though, and already runs the bushwacker.
Very true.
...Devastating Summons is just such an awesome card. ^.^ RDW, Counterburn, Blightning, R/G, and Boros are all going to be so good.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
About Mindslaver rulings:
Quote from ebcubs03 »
so if i am that player do i get to sleep with his girlfriend ?
I don't think the Fiend is needed, and you would be fine with less lands unless you run fetches for thinning and possibly landfall.
Consider the fiend as an alternate God Hand.
You maybe questioning this well, the previous combo asks for 7 cards or your starting hand / starting hand + 2
This combo provides the same deadly combo by turn 3
Turn 1: Mountain, Goblin Guide, Swing for 2 (18)
Turn 2: Mountain, Kiln Fiend, Swing for 2 (16)
Turn 3: Mountain, Flame Slash on a possible blocker / nuisance, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Bolt, swing for 18 (-2)
(Yes it hits hard, so far it has done at best 23 damage to the opponent by turn 3 in one of my mental scenarios featuring 3x Mountain + Goblin Guide + 3x Lightning Bolt + Kiln Fiend)
Updated Deck version 1.5 (More creature, Less burn)
URG I am a creative and exuberant individual; a lover of knowledge and enthusiast of rationality. The things that I value in life are learning, friendship, and passion; it is with these factors that I attain a great deal of information and companions. My goal in life is to have fun learning as much as I possibly can while enjoying all there is within the world. At my best I'm insightful, imaginative, and powerful; at my worst I'm volatile, uncontrollable, and childish.
That said, the final version of the deck looks pretty good to me.
(Yes for great Geopede! Also it does get rid of 8 land drops IF you should cycle through all your Fetches)
Not finished actually
We don't want the Hellspark Since it's Counteractive right?
The list of possibly avaible creatures to fill the slot: Akoum Battlesinger (Hasty 2/1 for 2, that then becomes a 1/1 the following turn) Goblin Shortcutter (2/1 for 2, that lets you avoid a blocker) Raging Goblin (Hasty 1/1 for 1)
I would add Jackal Familiar to the list of available creatures, but it requires another creature to fight along side it.
URG I am a creative and exuberant individual; a lover of knowledge and enthusiast of rationality. The things that I value in life are learning, friendship, and passion; it is with these factors that I attain a great deal of information and companions. My goal in life is to have fun learning as much as I possibly can while enjoying all there is within the world. At my best I'm insightful, imaginative, and powerful; at my worst I'm volatile, uncontrollable, and childish.
Goblin Shortcutter might be good for pushing Kiln or a fat geopede through, but I wouldn't be comffortable making a call without some solid testing first. I do think it's far and away the best of the options you presented, though. Works well with Bushwacker, Summons, Kiln, and Geopede.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If God spoke to you, and commanded you to kill your own children, would you do it?
If your answer is "No," then your morality does not come from God's commandments.
If your answer is "Yes," then please, please reconsider.
I am a huge fan of this card. It reminds me of Firestorm in that it is a cheap spell that asks for a scalable cost in another resource to power its effect, meaning you can create some incredible 'cheats' with it. Bushwhacker is definitely certified awesome with this card, giving you a potential 2 attacking power on turn 3. It can also be fun with cards like Where Ancients Tread, and Pyromancer Ascension will have a riot with this card (that ought to be fun online). Not to mention you can super charge a Knight of the Reliquary using this if you want to. Tons of potential is waiting here to be abused in a lot of great ways.
I'm terribly sorry. I forgot to double check on the cards About To Be Released for any good 1-2cc replacement.
Goblin Tunneler 1R
Creature - Goblin Rogue (C)
T: Target creature with power less than 2 is unblockable this turn.
1/1
At worst case scenario it's a 2cc 1/1 creature. At best scenario, he is what makes one of your creatures an unblockable, similar to the Goblin Shortcutter and yet is repeatable.
Also the fact that all creatures are 2 power less in this deck yet hit harder than a BSA in the early turns of the game is highly relevant.
This is what can help probably push through any of the main beats in that deck.
A worse case scenario and if you are going first:
Opponent Turn 1: Plains, Path to Exile
Opponent Turn 2: Wall of Omens
Yeah, you lost the Goblin Guide but if you had dropped the tunneler turn 2, it's basically saying "What Wall?" As you get in there for some absurd damage total.
URG I am a creative and exuberant individual; a lover of knowledge and enthusiast of rationality. The things that I value in life are learning, friendship, and passion; it is with these factors that I attain a great deal of information and companions. My goal in life is to have fun learning as much as I possibly can while enjoying all there is within the world. At my best I'm insightful, imaginative, and powerful; at my worst I'm volatile, uncontrollable, and childish.
I don't think the tunneler is as good as the shortcutter. It's not a threat on it's own, and it has to tap to do it's thing, meaning you are investing two cards to get one guy swinging, which is sorta the opposite of what this deck wants to achieve. It doesn't really work at all with bushwacker, either. Casting Shortcutter and Bushwacker on turn 4 will probably win the game. Tunneler is a lot worse in this situation. And while youi can use it with Kiln Fiend to get around a wall, two things:
1) Fiend and Geopede can both kill the wall anyways, and
2) You can always burn the wall out of the way if it is proving to be a problem.
The only case where Tunneler is superior is against something you can't already kill or get around, like Wall of Denial, but that makes it a sideboard card at best.
Honestly, I think what the deck most needs is another solid red 1-drop. Right now there's only Goblin Guide to fill the spot. That, or a porting to Boros to take advantage of Steppe Lynx.
Of course, if you ditch mono-red, you also lose your turn 3 god hands, as most require you to have RRR available. Not necessarily a huge loss, but it's fun to be able to do them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If God spoke to you, and commanded you to kill your own children, would you do it?
If your answer is "No," then your morality does not come from God's commandments.
If your answer is "Yes," then please, please reconsider.
In contrast to others, I see this card as a great addition to my standard manabarbs multiplayer deck. Basically, I run a butt load of borderposts, gems, 4 mana barbs, and then some cards to feed my lands to, like goblin razerunners. Can't wait to try them out.
URG I am a creative and exuberant individual; a lover of knowledge and enthusiast of rationality. The things that I value in life are learning, friendship, and passion; it is with these factors that I attain a great deal of information and companions. My goal in life is to have fun learning as much as I possibly can while enjoying all there is within the world. At my best I'm insightful, imaginative, and powerful; at my worst I'm volatile, uncontrollable, and childish.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Does anyone else think this card is potentially really good? Yes, it sucks if it gets countered. Yes, it auto loses to Wrath. But in general, it actually seems like a pretty good finisher. The fact that it makes two tokens makes it resistant to removal, and the fact that at least one of them is likely to live and join whatever forces you already have on the table makes it seem hard to stop as a game ender.
If your answer is "No," then your morality does not come from God's commandments.
If your answer is "Yes," then please, please reconsider.
I am a creative and exuberant individual; a lover of knowledge and enthusiast of rationality. The things that I value in life are learning, friendship, and passion; it is with these factors that I attain a great deal of information and companions. My goal in life is to have fun learning as much as I possibly can while enjoying all there is within the world. At my best I'm insightful, imaginative, and powerful; at my worst I'm volatile, uncontrollable, and childish.
Turn 1: Steppe Lynx
Turn 2: Fethcland, Swing with Lynx, cast Nacatl/Lynx 2, swing with first Lynx (opponent at 16)
Turn 3: Crack fetchland, float 3 mana. Cast Devastating Summons at x = 2. Cast Goblin Bushwacker with kicker. Swing for 17 (5 Lynx, 3 Token, 3 Token, 2 Bushwacker, 4 Nacatl)
Obviously countermagic and removal cause problems with this plan, but the blazing speed alone merits consideration.
-ktkenshinx-
stupid counterspells they always ruin games! oh wait I'm the one who is getting swarmed by this ok lol.
but yeah just the fact you can sac the lands to get two X/X guys and get a Bushwacker off kicker is sick. I like it, red doesn't seem to be losing speed and if people hate this spell getting countered side it out
That's a good point...at almost any point in the game, this + bushwhacker = instant win out of nowhere. You could get as much as 19 damage on the swing you described; and while that isn't typical, just turn 3 bushwhacker + this is 10 damage added to whatever else you have on the table.
Edit:
Turn 1: Goblin Guide (18)
Turn 2: Any creature with 2 power (16)
Turn 3: Bushwacker + This (0)
If they have removal and / or a blocker, they can live to turn 4 through this start...but unless they can stop both the two elemental tokens and the other creatures, it's not looking good.
Turn 1: Goblin Guide (18) (-> opponent plays land)
Turn 2: Any creature with 2 power (16) (-> opponent plays a blocker)
Turn 3: Bushwacker + This, swing (8) (opponent chumps one token, casts removal on the other token, untaps and lays another creature)
Turn 4: Swing with bushwacker, guide, friend, and remaining token for 9. Play a land and chuck burn at face if necessary. Giggle maniacally.
If your answer is "No," then your morality does not come from God's commandments.
If your answer is "Yes," then please, please reconsider.
About Mindslaver rulings:
20 Mountain
Creatures: 20
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Ball Lightning
4 Devastating Summons
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Burst Lightning
4 Flame Slash
Casting Cost Curve:
1cc = 24
2cc = 8
3cc = 4
Kiln Fiend 1R
Creature - Elemental Beast
Whenever you cast a sorcery or instant, ~ gets +3/+0 until end of turn.
1/2
EDIT: Short 4 cards...
I am a creative and exuberant individual; a lover of knowledge and enthusiast of rationality. The things that I value in life are learning, friendship, and passion; it is with these factors that I attain a great deal of information and companions. My goal in life is to have fun learning as much as I possibly can while enjoying all there is within the world. At my best I'm insightful, imaginative, and powerful; at my worst I'm volatile, uncontrollable, and childish.
I don't think the Fiend is needed, and you would be fine with less lands unless you run fetches for thinning and possibly landfall.
About Mindslaver rulings:
I would cut four lands for 4 Forked Bolt. It gives you more face burn, and another sorcery to activate the fiend.
If your answer is "No," then your morality does not come from God's commandments.
If your answer is "Yes," then please, please reconsider.
Geopede with room made for fetches wouldnt be better?
About Mindslaver rulings:
No reason you couldn't run both. I think Ball Lightning and Hellspark elemental are a little ambitious and could potentially be downgraded or cut. They also don't synergize well with other deck elements (bushwacker / summons). If the deck runs enough burn, Kiln Fiend is a must block threat.
A boros list running Lynx, Geopede, and fetchlands would probably work as well or better, though, and already runs the bushwacker.
If your answer is "No," then your morality does not come from God's commandments.
If your answer is "Yes," then please, please reconsider.
Very true.
...Devastating Summons is just such an awesome card. ^.^ RDW, Counterburn, Blightning, R/G, and Boros are all going to be so good.
About Mindslaver rulings:
Consider the fiend as an alternate God Hand.
You maybe questioning this well, the previous combo asks for 7 cards or your starting hand / starting hand + 2
This combo provides the same deadly combo by turn 3
Turn 1: Mountain, Goblin Guide, Swing for 2 (18)
Turn 2: Mountain, Kiln Fiend, Swing for 2 (16)
Turn 3: Mountain, Flame Slash on a possible blocker / nuisance, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Bolt, swing for 18 (-2)
(Yes it hits hard, so far it has done at best 23 damage to the opponent by turn 3 in one of my mental scenarios featuring 3x Mountain + Goblin Guide + 3x Lightning Bolt + Kiln Fiend)
Updated Deck version 1.5 (More creature, Less burn)
20 Mountain
Creatures: 24
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Ball Lightning
4 Plated Geopede
4 Devastating Summons
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Burst Lightning
4 Flame Slash
20 Mountain
Creatures: 20
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Ball Lightning
4 Devastating Summons
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Burst Lightning
4 Flame Slash
4 Forked Bolt
Deck Updated Version 1.5 (More Plated Geopede + Forked Bolt, Less Ball Lightning)
12 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Arid Mesa
Creatures: 20
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Plated Geopede
4 Devastating Summons
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Burst Lightning
4 Flame Slash
4 Forked Bolt
1cc = 28
2cc = 12
3cc+ = 0
Edit: For the last one added 8 Fetch Lands for deck thinning.
I am a creative and exuberant individual; a lover of knowledge and enthusiast of rationality. The things that I value in life are learning, friendship, and passion; it is with these factors that I attain a great deal of information and companions. My goal in life is to have fun learning as much as I possibly can while enjoying all there is within the world. At my best I'm insightful, imaginative, and powerful; at my worst I'm volatile, uncontrollable, and childish.
You mainly want the fetch lands for the Geopede.
That said, the final version of the deck looks pretty good to me.
If your answer is "No," then your morality does not come from God's commandments.
If your answer is "Yes," then please, please reconsider.
(Yes for great Geopede! Also it does get rid of 8 land drops IF you should cycle through all your Fetches)
Not finished actually
We don't want the Hellspark Since it's Counteractive right?
The list of possibly avaible creatures to fill the slot:
Akoum Battlesinger (Hasty 2/1 for 2, that then becomes a 1/1 the following turn)
Goblin Shortcutter (2/1 for 2, that lets you avoid a blocker)
Raging Goblin (Hasty 1/1 for 1)
I would add Jackal Familiar to the list of available creatures, but it requires another creature to fight along side it.
I am a creative and exuberant individual; a lover of knowledge and enthusiast of rationality. The things that I value in life are learning, friendship, and passion; it is with these factors that I attain a great deal of information and companions. My goal in life is to have fun learning as much as I possibly can while enjoying all there is within the world. At my best I'm insightful, imaginative, and powerful; at my worst I'm volatile, uncontrollable, and childish.
If your answer is "No," then your morality does not come from God's commandments.
If your answer is "Yes," then please, please reconsider.
I'm terribly sorry. I forgot to double check on the cards About To Be Released for any good 1-2cc replacement.
Goblin Tunneler 1R
Creature - Goblin Rogue (C)
T: Target creature with power less than 2 is unblockable this turn.
1/1
At worst case scenario it's a 2cc 1/1 creature. At best scenario, he is what makes one of your creatures an unblockable, similar to the Goblin Shortcutter and yet is repeatable.
Also the fact that all creatures are 2 power less in this deck yet hit harder than a BSA in the early turns of the game is highly relevant.
This is what can help probably push through any of the main beats in that deck.
A worse case scenario and if you are going first:
Opponent Turn 1: Plains, Path to Exile
Opponent Turn 2: Wall of Omens
Yeah, you lost the Goblin Guide but if you had dropped the tunneler turn 2, it's basically saying "What Wall?" As you get in there for some absurd damage total.
I am a creative and exuberant individual; a lover of knowledge and enthusiast of rationality. The things that I value in life are learning, friendship, and passion; it is with these factors that I attain a great deal of information and companions. My goal in life is to have fun learning as much as I possibly can while enjoying all there is within the world. At my best I'm insightful, imaginative, and powerful; at my worst I'm volatile, uncontrollable, and childish.
1) Fiend and Geopede can both kill the wall anyways, and
2) You can always burn the wall out of the way if it is proving to be a problem.
The only case where Tunneler is superior is against something you can't already kill or get around, like Wall of Denial, but that makes it a sideboard card at best.
If your answer is "No," then your morality does not come from God's commandments.
If your answer is "Yes," then please, please reconsider.
Would Hell's Thunder be decent? Its a little more costly, but it swings for a bunch in the air.
About Mindslaver rulings:
Of course, if you ditch mono-red, you also lose your turn 3 god hands, as most require you to have RRR available. Not necessarily a huge loss, but it's fun to be able to do them.
If your answer is "No," then your morality does not come from God's commandments.
If your answer is "Yes," then please, please reconsider.
Lightmine Field is actually a very strong card in general. A lot of decks auto-lose against it, this one included.
I think your goal here is to kill them before that happens, or at least get into range to finish the job with burn. Like usual for Sligh-style decks.
If your answer is "No," then your morality does not come from God's commandments.
If your answer is "Yes," then please, please reconsider.
I am a creative and exuberant individual; a lover of knowledge and enthusiast of rationality. The things that I value in life are learning, friendship, and passion; it is with these factors that I attain a great deal of information and companions. My goal in life is to have fun learning as much as I possibly can while enjoying all there is within the world. At my best I'm insightful, imaginative, and powerful; at my worst I'm volatile, uncontrollable, and childish.