I wouldnt mind that much if the mega rares in the set were limited release of some sort. BUt instead they will overcharge for them and everyone will have them. They are to strong. I dont think they are even trying anymore. Their stupid powerful.
I wouldnt mind that much if the mega rares in the set were limited release of some sort. BUt instead they will overcharge for them and everyone will have them. They are to strong. I dont think they are even trying anymore. Their stupid powerful.
When was the last time you had 15 mana lying around? These guys will not be easy to play. And even if you can get them out by turn 5, I'm assuming that you're not playing any removal. And if you have no removal, any fast deck (Boros, RDW) will easily beat you. Other decks like Jund, Bant, or elves will easily be able to chump your creatures until you lose.
From the fifth of the set we have seen so far, we should not be scared of Eldrazi dominating standard just yet.
Late game cards are intrinsically handicapped. It takes a very very very strong effect to make high cc spells worth it. Creatures are not just about mana to P/T ratios anymore. You have to factor in the "time value" of cheaper spells. Not only do you have to wait until 10-15 mana to play these guys, holding these cards in your hand means a) They are dead cards until you draw enough mana b) You can have your hand stripped before you hit enough mana c) Your deck intrinsically becomes more vulnerable to land destruction d) You could be dead well before you get enough mana e) most importantly, the OPPORTUNITY COST of playing something that could have been relevant. Recall that competitive decks stay around 60 cards.
A one drop for example can generate value right away if not the next turn. Then the total utility of the spell is the value it will generate until it is dealt with. The reason cruel ultimatum sees play is because it generates ridiculous utility which more or less seals the game. We in fact don't even need to go to 7 mana spells. Cards like Chameleon Colossus will show you that you don't have to generate 10+ mana a turn to win. Bitterblossom is another example that shows utility value over time. A turn 2 bitterblossom does so much...it'll churn out tokens that you can use to block, attack etc until it's game over or dealt with.
So far I don't see any of the eldrazi spells as super powerful when you factor in the mana costs and opportunity costs. By making an Eldrazi deck, you'll naturally run into situations where you draw too much ramp and no Eldrazi spells, or vs versa. If you just run a "normal" deck, the probability of being short on mana or having too much mana would be minimized. If you expect to hit 15 mana, you'll probably run more lands and therefore can expect mana flood more often.
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"Wizards could put $100 bills in packs and people would complain about how they were folded." - from Dr Jeebus's Sig
Your first sentence is enough to tell us you're playing against some pretty bad competition which apparently doesn't pack removal.
Eldrazi aren't too strong because a decent opponent will interfere with your ramping to get them out.
I don't know where you're coming from. All i said is that its really easy for green to get the mana thats it. How does that constitute that i play against crappy people if i get alot of mana consistently? So people are actually goin to counter nature's lore and rampant growths eh? Maybe in a blue moon they will or unless they play a deck chalk full of counterspells. Throw enough threats at them to remove your ramping creatures start sticking. Depeinding on how much removal they got...It can be pushed back to turn 7. Either way its going to happen
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If you see someone playing a control deck, the following strategy is considered acceptable: 1) Slowly reach upward 2) Grab your opponent firmly by the throat 3) Squeeze 4) ???? 5) Profit...and a fountain of red Kool Aid!!!
For some reason Eldrazi Temple isn't Legendary so imagine you have 2 temples out, an eye of ugin, and an everflowing chalice that you kicked twice. That is 8 "mana" right there between four cards Eldrazi are way too overpowered. So much so I will probably quit Standard until they are cycled out. They wouldn't be so bad if they didn't have the annhilator mechanic. Just by attacking they literally win the game.
How many turn 4 Emrakul's will you have to see from Polymorph before you agree how DUMB this set is?
If Iona weren't better nearly every time, I would say it's pretty dumb. Right now polymorph has all the best targets ever printed (Iona, DSC, Inkwell, Hellkite) and Iona is simply a step above them all because it prevents your opponents from playing their cards. Emerkul is just ok. It comes in to play, an gives your opponent 1 chance to stop it. Unless they're playing white, it's very difficult. However, polymorph still has to resolve. And that's tougher against people playing removal or counters, which is everyone. The bad thing is polymorph will usually resolve against WW. But ww has the best answers in O-Ring and Journey.
Now, if somehow Polymorph resolved and resulted in a turn 4 emerkul more than say 10% of the time, while your opponent has no answers then it might be busted, but as the game stands, it's just better to get an Iona.
The hard cast doesn't worry me a bit, like everyone said, if you have 15 manas you probably would win anyway. The possible shenanigans, tough, are a bit scary, since even without the effects that happens when you cast them, a 15/15 annihilator 6 flyer with protection from colored spells CAN make a dent. And summoning trap was printed to put those guys on the table...
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Alea iacta est
I'm a Spike Vorthos - I love lore and flavor, but only if the cards are competition worthy.
I have never said a set was bad before. Even during Saviors rumor season I had no reason to say the set was awful on the forums. And yes, I've been around since Saviors. I defended Coldsnap, I defended Saviors, I defended Eventide. But I will say it now: Rise of the Eldrazi is a terrible set for constructed.
I see 1 card in this set that can be called good at all (new Gifts), and every other card we've seen is complete garbage for constructed. All these people saying they're quitting until the next set, well you might quit standard until next set, but not because of Rise: Jund will probably still be the best deck for the next few months and this will be the first set to make absolutely no impact on standard (even Saviors had Kataki).
And I will be playing limited, because I actually don't like any sort of constructed, and this set is balanced enough for limited to make that environment look decent. But for constructed, every card we've seen besides new Gifts is completely unplayable garbage.
While I do no think they are overpowered, I do think that they are viable and really mean since 15 mana for an eldrazi will equal 11 mana(ish) for something else so there is some help there. Plus, assuming there are some more interesting lands coming out, realms uncharted is going to help get your more eldrazi lands into your hand. But I do not think that they are broken, they dont have affinity on them.:D
Am I the only one who think the Eldrasi cards are stupidly overpowered??? On a green deck, 15 mana is not that hard to get! And for that you get a 15/15, who can't be countered with crazy protection and a guarantee to destroy 6 permanent your opponent control with a potential of killing at least 1 creature or doing 15 damage! That's crazy nuts!!!
Not sure how it'll go in standard but for casual no one ever plays decks like this thanks to cranial extraction or time stop or just doing simple things like stopping your from getting to 15 mana in the first place if you just rely on one big 15 mana creature to win with. Duress or counterspells or kill spells or disruption of any sort will keep things in check.
Maybe I'm just jaded from dealing with oath of druids and darksteel colossus one too many times. It'd be fine if they didn't have a bunch of force of will-type cards to stop every single answer I have. You all don't know easy you have it.
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@_@
Reprint Misdirection and Dominate . There, now you can you lose to your own cards instead of being mad at blue.
And dies to the much more commonly played oblivion ring. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses for sure, but I'm not entirely convinced that Em is better than Iona until I try it for myself.
Is it sad or is it amusing that people drooling all over the Eldrazi trio will be long dead by a Hyena Umbra'd Knight of the Reliquary before they can say "Polymorph this 1/1" or "eot Summoning Trap"?
You got a point: you don't get extra turn if you don't pay the hard cost... I actually misread that one.. And indeed Day of Judgement will take care of it, but that one of the few cards which can. All other destroy tgt creature type of spells will be powerless... Granted, Elvish isn't the only way to bring this thing out. And yes without the extra turn, this cards becomes less overcrazypowered. Still anhilator is nasty
Nope, he has protection from colors, and Day of Judgement is actually White.It's OK, it is really easy to make that mistake. You are also not talking about Ulamog, who is indestructible.
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You got a point: you don't get extra turn if you don't pay the hard cost... I actually misread that one.. And indeed Day of Judgement will take care of it, but that one of the few cards which can. All other destroy tgt creature type of spells will be powerless... Granted, Elvish isn't the only way to bring this thing out. And yes without the extra turn, this cards becomes less overcrazypowered. Still anhilator is nasty
Nope, he has protection from colors, and Day of Judgement is actually White.It's OK, it is really easy to make that mistake. You are also not talking about Ulamog, who is indestructible.
Day of Judgement does not do anything that Protection interferes with.
Protection from x means: Damaged dealt by x is prevented
can't be Enchanted/equiped by x
Can't be Blocked by X
can't be Targetted by X
Your first sentence is enough to tell us you're playing against some pretty bad competition which apparently doesn't pack removal.
Eldrazi aren't too strong because a decent opponent will interfere with your ramping to get them out.
When was the last time you had 15 mana lying around? These guys will not be easy to play. And even if you can get them out by turn 5, I'm assuming that you're not playing any removal. And if you have no removal, any fast deck (Boros, RDW) will easily beat you. Other decks like Jund, Bant, or elves will easily be able to chump your creatures until you lose.
From the fifth of the set we have seen so far, we should not be scared of Eldrazi dominating standard just yet.
You can find me on MTGO. My username is gereffi.
A one drop for example can generate value right away if not the next turn. Then the total utility of the spell is the value it will generate until it is dealt with. The reason cruel ultimatum sees play is because it generates ridiculous utility which more or less seals the game. We in fact don't even need to go to 7 mana spells. Cards like Chameleon Colossus will show you that you don't have to generate 10+ mana a turn to win. Bitterblossom is another example that shows utility value over time. A turn 2 bitterblossom does so much...it'll churn out tokens that you can use to block, attack etc until it's game over or dealt with.
So far I don't see any of the eldrazi spells as super powerful when you factor in the mana costs and opportunity costs. By making an Eldrazi deck, you'll naturally run into situations where you draw too much ramp and no Eldrazi spells, or vs versa. If you just run a "normal" deck, the probability of being short on mana or having too much mana would be minimized. If you expect to hit 15 mana, you'll probably run more lands and therefore can expect mana flood more often.
I don't know where you're coming from. All i said is that its really easy for green to get the mana thats it. How does that constitute that i play against crappy people if i get alot of mana consistently? So people are actually goin to counter nature's lore and rampant growths eh? Maybe in a blue moon they will or unless they play a deck chalk full of counterspells. Throw enough threats at them to remove your ramping creatures start sticking. Depeinding on how much removal they got...It can be pushed back to turn 7. Either way its going to happen
Not a fan or supporter of New Magic
How many turn 4 Emrakul's will you have to see from Polymorph before you agree how DUMB this set is?
It can be polymorph by turn 3 easily (without protection though) with the chalice or explorer.
But if you polymorph a turn 3 iona or progenitus it is also game over no ? Well each time I manage to get my Iona turn 3, I never lost.
Now, if somehow Polymorph resolved and resulted in a turn 4 emerkul more than say 10% of the time, while your opponent has no answers then it might be busted, but as the game stands, it's just better to get an Iona.
I'm a Spike Vorthos - I love lore and flavor, but only if the cards are competition worthy.
I see 1 card in this set that can be called good at all (new Gifts), and every other card we've seen is complete garbage for constructed. All these people saying they're quitting until the next set, well you might quit standard until next set, but not because of Rise: Jund will probably still be the best deck for the next few months and this will be the first set to make absolutely no impact on standard (even Saviors had Kataki).
And I will be playing limited, because I actually don't like any sort of constructed, and this set is balanced enough for limited to make that environment look decent. But for constructed, every card we've seen besides new Gifts is completely unplayable garbage.
As soon as I figure out how to live against a turn 4 Iona from polymorph.
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You play one of the new colorless kill spells since they can't name colorless.
That works against Emrakul too.
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No because Emrakul is himself colorless.
Not sure how it'll go in standard but for casual no one ever plays decks like this thanks to cranial extraction or time stop or just doing simple things like stopping your from getting to 15 mana in the first place if you just rely on one big 15 mana creature to win with. Duress or counterspells or kill spells or disruption of any sort will keep things in check.
Maybe I'm just jaded from dealing with oath of druids and darksteel colossus one too many times. It'd be fine if they didn't have a bunch of force of will-type cards to stop every single answer I have. You all don't know easy you have it.
Reprint Misdirection and Dominate . There, now you can you lose to your own cards instead of being mad at blue.
That's assuming I live long enough to give Iona AIDS before she pounds me to my next life with her lovely punishment of justice.
And dies to the much more commonly played oblivion ring. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses for sure, but I'm not entirely convinced that Em is better than Iona until I try it for myself.
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Nope, he has protection from colors, and Day of Judgement is actually White.It's OK, it is really easy to make that mistake. You are also not talking about Ulamog, who is indestructible.
...seriously though, this thing is over four and a half years old...
Day of Judgement does not do anything that Protection interferes with.
Protection from x means:
Damaged dealt by x is prevented
can't be Enchanted/equiped by x
Can't be Blocked by X
can't be Targetted by X
AS Day of Judgement like Wrath of God it will be able to destroy Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
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in addition to bumping a 5 year old thread to inform us that he doesn't know how Protection works. I smell a troll.