If early pre-sales and what not on ebay are any indication, looks like something around $15-$20 each.
They are supposed to be used as promotions to be given away when someone buys a box from your store though last I checked. Not that thats ever stopped anyone of course ;).
Yup, I know... But if you buy 6 display, you get 6 promos I myself don't have a store...
Yup, I know... But if you buy 6 display, you get 6 promos I myself don't have a store...
Ahhh, it mentioned you were a TO in your sig, and it sounded like you allready had them and since the boxes dont officially go on sale until the 17th I guess I presumed that you must have owned a shop or something, guess thats what I get for assuming.
That is kind of sad to hear since, with the exchange rate, a box costs $160 here.
I actually prefer the new wording of cards like Seige-Gang so will be trying to trade my olds ones away once I have the new ones.
It does seem strange to me that people would rather buy Honour at $10, than the pre-con Deck at $15 with all the other cards in.
As another poster pointed out, if your exchange rate makes the box cost $160, then with the same rate applied to the overall average value of the box it would be worth $222. You can't just apply exchange rate to 1/2 the equation..........
Can you do whatever it is you're doing to determine what a foil Birds would be? I got one and I'm pretty sure it's more valuable than any other card I pulled at the prerelease.
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Although always playing a deck I think is fun, I'm also always trying to win the tournament.
Currently playing: M13 Draft GGGGG Dungrove................(STANDARD) GWGWG Maverick..................(LEGACY)
Jon Finkel on the PWP System:
Quote from Jon Finkel »
Occasional Player? Hold on, because we're sending a Level 3 judge over to your house to kick you in the balls right now! -With Love, WOTC
Can you do whatever it is you're doing to determine what a foil Birds would be? I got one and I'm pretty sure it's more valuable than any other card I pulled at the prerelease.
Well, none have sold as of yet on ebay from m10, however buy-it-now listings et all seem to range from $20-$25 at the moment.
If I had to give an educated estimate based upon what other foil birds have sold for, I would put its value between $15-$20. A great pull to be sure. I remember pulling a Foil birds during the Ravnica release draft, that was the best.
As another poster pointed out, if your exchange rate makes the box cost $160, then with the same rate applied to the overall average value of the box it would be worth $222. You can't just apply exchange rate to 1/2 the equation..........
It doesn't work that way. Boxes are expensive to ship due to their weight, but singles aren't. In a country with high box prices, people will order singles from the US or another cheaper country. You don't get the inflated value of the box back through selling singles, which will have to compete with prices elsewhere.
I do think Gargoyle Castle is a good card, yes. And no, I've never been a control player, but my instincts tell me it could be played. And hey, it goes nicely with Planar Cleansing.
For those continuing to insist that Cleansing is a bad card "because it kills your planeswalker", come on. Have you never played with Wrath of God? IT KILLS YOUR CREATURES TOO! So what you do, is either:
1) Build your deck around it. Don't play many, or any, of the permanent type your hoser destroys.
2) Play around it. Sweep first, then play out your hand.
3) Deal with losing something to your own sweeper. A 5 for 2 is really good.
Regarding cards that end up in precons, consider this. They print about a billion of each rare (yes, I'm pulling numbers out of my ass). Then they print a few thousand more of each rare appearing in a precon. It really doesn't affect prices that much. If a card is THAT good (Jitte), then all the precons containing it just magically disappear, and the price remains high.
Short version: There are comparably only a handful of precons compared to how many booster packs there are.
The biggest downside of Gargoyle Castle in my eyes is that bounce acts as LD. If you spend a turn creating the token (which you likely will given the mana cost) and they just bounce it, you've wasted a turn and you're down 1 mana. It will still be a $5+ card I think though, because there's no playable bounce now besides Cryptic Command.
You're not spending a turn making the token if you do it eot.
I don't care if I go down 1 mana, if I have 10 other lands in play.
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Island taps for U and cost zero. It should be banned.
I do think Gargoyle Castle is a good card, yes. And no, I've never been a control player, but my instincts tell me it could be played. And hey, it goes nicely with Planar Cleansing.
For those continuing to insist that Cleansing is a bad card "because it kills your planeswalker", come on. Have you never played with Wrath of God? IT KILLS YOUR CREATURES TOO! So what you do, is either:
well, obviously, wrath and creatures aren't made for the same deck (except for sideboard shenanigan of course ;)) So, this point is kinda... well... pointless.
1) Build your deck around it. Don't play many, or any, of the permanent type your hoser destroys.
==> spells suck if you didn't notice. you can't play a full spell (instant/sorcery) deck and expect to win.
2) Play around it. Sweep first, then play out your hand.
==> It might be because you don't play control that you don't really get it, but nowdays, most of the threats must be answered right now and worse individually. creatures are that good, you can't hold the wrath back, like what 2 years ago.
3) Deal with losing something to your own sweeper. A 5 for 2 is really good.
==> Does the possibility of 5 for 2 (really unlikely) worth the possibilities of being 2 for 1'ed ? and having an uncastable card in starting hand ? 6 mana are a lot more than people think. even more if the artifact that could accelerate planar cleansing dies to it. [/quote]
Planar Cleansing needs to be played in a deck that fills the whole bottom end of it's curve with removal/accel/delay. I'm thinking of a Wildfire deck where it ramps up, clears the board and wins with fat. The deck needs Rampant Growth, Borderland Ranger, a couple Fog/Safe Passage/Silence delay effects and then it can win with a huge Kalonian Behemoth.
For those continuing to insist that Cleansing is a bad card "because it kills your planeswalker", come on. Have you never played with Wrath of God? IT KILLS YOUR CREATURES TOO! So what you do, is either:
well, obviously, wrath and creatures aren't made for the same deck (except for sideboard shenanigan of course ;)) So, this point is kinda... well... pointless.
I think it's obvious we're not talking about "Aggro should use Wrath of God because it's soooo OMG BROKEN!" That WOULD be stupid, especially as a 4-of, since more often than not it'll probably be a dead draw since you won't want to give up your board presence (though I personally would run at most 2 in that case, just so I have a reset if I need it).
We're talking about using Wrath as a reset. Obviously you don't want to use Wrath when you have a decent board creature-wise, but if your opponent has Broodmates + Dragon tokens and you have a few decent groundlings late game wouldn't you rather give up the groundlings in favor of taking out the fliers that will kill you?
1) Build your deck around it. Don't play many, or any, of the permanent type your hoser destroys.
==> spells suck if you didn't notice. you can't play a full spell (instant/sorcery) deck and expect to win.
2) Play around it. Sweep first, then play out your hand.
==> It might be because you don't play control that you don't really get it, but nowdays, most of the threats must be answered right now and worse individually. creatures are that good, you can't hold the wrath back, like what 2 years ago.
3) Deal with losing something to your own sweeper. A 5 for 2 is really good.
==> Does the possibility of 5 for 2 (really unlikely) worth the possibilities of being 2 for 1'ed ? and having an uncastable card in starting hand ? 6 mana are a lot more than people think. even more if the artifact that could accelerate planar cleansing dies to it.
[/quote]
I think what R_E's saying is that if you're really concerned about Planar Cleansing taking out your Planeswalkers, there's a simple solution: find a way to use Cleansing to your advantage. He's just listing a few ways you can either minimize or rationalize any loses on your part from using your own Cleansing.
I also don't think R_E's coming from a tournament-only perspective. Casual can be a fun ground for weird ideas. Maybe one of those could be a fun nearly permanent-less deck (lands included in the deck, obviously, since Cleansing doesn't get rid of them) that can take full advantage of Wraths and Cleansings...especially when playing against anyone using a number of non-Creature, non-Land permanents.
The morals of this story:
1) Don't knock a card just because it hurts you. It just might help you more than you think. (And then again, it might not. That's what playtesting is for.)
2) Don't limit yourself to tournament-level criticism only, or if you do at least acknowledge that so we know that's the perspective you're coming from and can judge/react accordingly.
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http://cglhixson.blogspot.com/ - A blog for anyone in the Hixson, TN area to scope out a small-town, small-time Magic "league."
I pulled a foil Darksteel Colossus (mythic rare foil ftw) out of my first pack at the prerelease. I don't know if it's been put up here yet, but that baby's going for 40 USD. That more than paid for both the sealed and side draft tournaments that day. 2 packs later I opened an Ajani Goldmane. Needless to say, I left satisfied, even though I went 3 of 5 in the sealed and 2 of 2 in the draft.
For those continuing to insist that Cleansing is a bad card "because it kills your planeswalker", come on. Have you never played with Wrath of God? IT KILLS YOUR CREATURES TOO! So what you do, is either:
well, obviously, wrath and creatures aren't made for the same deck (except for sideboard shenanigan of course ;)) So, this point is kinda... well... pointless.
1) Build your deck around it. Don't play many, or any, of the permanent type your hoser destroys.
==> spells suck if you didn't notice. you can't play a full spell (instant/sorcery) deck and expect to win.
2) Play around it. Sweep first, then play out your hand.
==> It might be because you don't play control that you don't really get it, but nowdays, most of the threats must be answered right now and worse individually. creatures are that good, you can't hold the wrath back, like what 2 years ago.
3) Deal with losing something to your own sweeper. A 5 for 2 is really good.
==> Does the possibility of 5 for 2 (really unlikely) worth the possibilities of being 2 for 1'ed ? and having an uncastable card in starting hand ? 6 mana are a lot more than people think. even more if the artifact that could accelerate planar cleansing dies to it.
[/quote]
You could play thesetypesofcreatures to benefit from the cleansing. It's really not that hard to do. And hey, what do you know? They're good against aggro too!
And getting a 5 for 2 really isn't that unthinkable. Just picture a Bant control deck:
Turn 2: Rampant Growth
Turn 3: Take your pick - Wall of Denial, Kitchen Finks, Farhaven Elf
Turn 4: I dunno? Cryptic?
Turn 5: Drop Gargoyle Castle. Cleansing.
There, a 5 for 2 with a favorable board position, no?
Aggro is strong right now, but it's not the end-all-be-all.
If only there was a way to get my planeswalkers back from the graveyard after a cleansing! It would be keen if it cost two mana so that I could replay a 4CMC planeswalker the next turn. And of course it would be extra groovy if it was in a color that could prevent damage for a turn to stay alive...
Oh well, a man can dream.
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^^
MTGO Writer and Epic Time-Waster.
If you have questions about MTGO PM me, I'm all up ons, as it were.
Check out my articles on http://puremtgo.com/ I'm the nerd you see there... wait, not that one. Nope, not that one either... yeah. That one.
If only there was a way to get my planeswalkers back from the graveyard after a cleansing! It would be keen if it cost two mana so that I could replay a 4CMC planeswalker the next turn. And of course it would be extra groovy if it was in a color that could prevent damage for a turn to stay alive...
You could play thesetypesofcreatures to benefit from the cleansing. It's really not that hard to do. And hey, what do you know? They're good against aggro too!
And getting a 5 for 2 really isn't that unthinkable. Just picture a Bant control deck:
Turn 2: Rampant Growth
Turn 3: Take your pick - Wall of Denial, Kitchen Finks, Farhaven Elf
Turn 4: I dunno? Cryptic?
Turn 5: Drop Gargoyle Castle. Cleansing.
There, a 5 for 2 with a favorable board position, no?
Aggro is strong right now, but it's not the end-all-be-all.
That's not a bad board position, but if I'm playing Jund aggro or even just RG aggro, my turn five would most likely be BBE, cascading into anything from a Jund Hackblade to a Ball Lightning. Or I may choose the less risky route and swing through with a Thunderblust or a Blitz Hellion. I'm not saying Planar Cleansing doesn't have opportunity. That actually sounds like a really interesting matchup.
If only there was a way to get my planeswalkers back from the graveyard after a cleansing! It would be keen if it cost two mana so that I could replay a 4CMC planeswalker the next turn. And of course it would be extra groovy if it was in a color that could prevent damage for a turn to stay alive...
Oh well, a man can dream.
If only there was some way to give your Planeswalkers Indestructibility . And I can't tell if that was sarcasm or not.
1) Don't knock a card just because it hurts you. It just might help you more than you think. (And then again, it might not. That's what playtesting is for.)
2) Don't limit yourself to tournament-level criticism only, or if you do at least acknowledge that so we know that's the perspective you're coming from and can judge/react accordingly.
Well, that's topic is all about price
I only know two ways for a card to have a good price : being usefull in tournement, or being a casual card. I believe that card is neither. (many will be happy to put it in an EDH deck, but it will only be as a one-of)
When i'm playing casual, i want my cards to have synergies, to do something special, or unexpected. blowing up the WHOLE board seems to me like denying what you've been doing all along (in casual).
tournementaly speaking, i don't mind cards hurting me, as long as they bring something to me. 3WWW for a reset button, a complete reset button, meaning the permanent that helped me getting alive to 6 mana, are destroyed. that means refusing to play the best control tools. (there is a theory running, that control must be more creature oriented, which this card does not allow very well).
I mean, you could (and i did) play around obliterate as it left enchantements unharmed. This does kill everything, you can't play around it, it is too straight forward. As I already said, what every one praise, is, in my opinion, is the worse weakness.
Keep in mind that white has few answers to planewalkers (namely pithing and Oring, and a deck featuring planar cleansing could play none.) Planar cleansing answers your answers
last note on casual, is blowing everything your friend have fun ? well, that may be
If only there was a way to get my planeswalkers back from the graveyard after a cleansing! It would be keen if it cost two mana so that I could replay a 4CMC planeswalker the next turn. And of course it would be extra groovy if it was in a color that could prevent damage for a turn to stay alive...
If only there was some way to give your Planeswalkers Indestructibility . And I can't tell if that was sarcasm or not.
It seemed relatively obvious (to me, at least) that his sarcasm was off the charts.
On the subject of Planar Cleansing, I think it will see a modicum of play, but most of it will be sideboard based. I really only see it as a direct answer to planeswalkers and things like Bitterblossom that a given (aggro/weenie?) deck wouldn't otherwise main deck answers to.
I don't have time right now to give specific price information, but from the averages I'm getting:
* My list is 64 cards big. That accounts for most cards whose averages are at least $1.
* None of the cards in my Top 21 are under $5.
* None of my Top 13 are below $9.
* None of my Top 7 are below $10.
* None of my Top 5 are below $11. :o:o
->My Top 5 (in order): Baneslayer Angel, Garruk Wildspeaker, Ajani Goldmane, Honor of the Pure, Silence
* My 20th place card is Master of the Wild Hunt, currently averaging $5.75.
* My highest Uncommon is Relentless Rats at $2.54.
* I have 2 Commons on my list: Lightning Bolt ($1.46, 55th) and Duress ($1.09, 61st).
Of course, these are almost exclusively pre-order prices and will go down. But for now, it's fun to see what kind of value each pack might hold this weekend.
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They will be in plentiful supply at your local Wal-Mart for $12.29
Yup, I know... But if you buy 6 display, you get 6 promos I myself don't have a store...
DCI Judge
Ahhh, it mentioned you were a TO in your sig, and it sounded like you allready had them and since the boxes dont officially go on sale until the 17th I guess I presumed that you must have owned a shop or something, guess thats what I get for assuming.
As another poster pointed out, if your exchange rate makes the box cost $160, then with the same rate applied to the overall average value of the box it would be worth $222. You can't just apply exchange rate to 1/2 the equation..........
Can you do whatever it is you're doing to determine what a foil Birds would be? I got one and I'm pretty sure it's more valuable than any other card I pulled at the prerelease.
Currently playing:
M13 Draft
GGGGG Dungrove................(STANDARD)
GWGWG Maverick..................(LEGACY)
Jon Finkel on the PWP System:
Well, none have sold as of yet on ebay from m10, however buy-it-now listings et all seem to range from $20-$25 at the moment.
If I had to give an educated estimate based upon what other foil birds have sold for, I would put its value between $15-$20. A great pull to be sure. I remember pulling a Foil birds during the Ravnica release draft, that was the best.
It doesn't work that way. Boxes are expensive to ship due to their weight, but singles aren't. In a country with high box prices, people will order singles from the US or another cheaper country. You don't get the inflated value of the box back through selling singles, which will have to compete with prices elsewhere.
For those continuing to insist that Cleansing is a bad card "because it kills your planeswalker", come on. Have you never played with Wrath of God? IT KILLS YOUR CREATURES TOO! So what you do, is either:
1) Build your deck around it. Don't play many, or any, of the permanent type your hoser destroys.
2) Play around it. Sweep first, then play out your hand.
3) Deal with losing something to your own sweeper. A 5 for 2 is really good.
Regarding cards that end up in precons, consider this. They print about a billion of each rare (yes, I'm pulling numbers out of my ass). Then they print a few thousand more of each rare appearing in a precon. It really doesn't affect prices that much. If a card is THAT good (Jitte), then all the precons containing it just magically disappear, and the price remains high.
Short version: There are comparably only a handful of precons compared to how many booster packs there are.
.
You're not spending a turn making the token if you do it eot.
I don't care if I go down 1 mana, if I have 10 other lands in play.
If you do it eot, you did nothing else the rest of that turn.
If you did nothing else the rest of that turn, you do it eot.
.
For those continuing to insist that Cleansing is a bad card "because it kills your planeswalker", come on. Have you never played with Wrath of God? IT KILLS YOUR CREATURES TOO! So what you do, is either:
well, obviously, wrath and creatures aren't made for the same deck (except for sideboard shenanigan of course ;)) So, this point is kinda... well... pointless.
1) Build your deck around it. Don't play many, or any, of the permanent type your hoser destroys.
==> spells suck if you didn't notice. you can't play a full spell (instant/sorcery) deck and expect to win.
2) Play around it. Sweep first, then play out your hand.
==> It might be because you don't play control that you don't really get it, but nowdays, most of the threats must be answered right now and worse individually. creatures are that good, you can't hold the wrath back, like what 2 years ago.
3) Deal with losing something to your own sweeper. A 5 for 2 is really good.
==> Does the possibility of 5 for 2 (really unlikely) worth the possibilities of being 2 for 1'ed ? and having an uncastable card in starting hand ? 6 mana are a lot more than people think. even more if the artifact that could accelerate planar cleansing dies to it. [/quote]
I think it's obvious we're not talking about "Aggro should use Wrath of God because it's soooo OMG BROKEN!" That WOULD be stupid, especially as a 4-of, since more often than not it'll probably be a dead draw since you won't want to give up your board presence (though I personally would run at most 2 in that case, just so I have a reset if I need it).
We're talking about using Wrath as a reset. Obviously you don't want to use Wrath when you have a decent board creature-wise, but if your opponent has Broodmates + Dragon tokens and you have a few decent groundlings late game wouldn't you rather give up the groundlings in favor of taking out the fliers that will kill you?
[/quote]
I think what R_E's saying is that if you're really concerned about Planar Cleansing taking out your Planeswalkers, there's a simple solution: find a way to use Cleansing to your advantage. He's just listing a few ways you can either minimize or rationalize any loses on your part from using your own Cleansing.
I also don't think R_E's coming from a tournament-only perspective. Casual can be a fun ground for weird ideas. Maybe one of those could be a fun nearly permanent-less deck (lands included in the deck, obviously, since Cleansing doesn't get rid of them) that can take full advantage of Wraths and Cleansings...especially when playing against anyone using a number of non-Creature, non-Land permanents.
The morals of this story:
1) Don't knock a card just because it hurts you. It just might help you more than you think. (And then again, it might not. That's what playtesting is for.)
2) Don't limit yourself to tournament-level criticism only, or if you do at least acknowledge that so we know that's the perspective you're coming from and can judge/react accordingly.
I love this game! Can I play?
Actually, the Castle has been testing well. Nothing amazingly dominant, but solid and pretty damn handy.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
You could play these types of creatures to benefit from the cleansing. It's really not that hard to do. And hey, what do you know? They're good against aggro too!
And getting a 5 for 2 really isn't that unthinkable. Just picture a Bant control deck:
Turn 2: Rampant Growth
Turn 3: Take your pick - Wall of Denial, Kitchen Finks, Farhaven Elf
Turn 4: I dunno? Cryptic?
Turn 5: Drop Gargoyle Castle. Cleansing.
There, a 5 for 2 with a favorable board position, no?
Aggro is strong right now, but it's not the end-all-be-all.
My Sales Post!
Oh well, a man can dream.
MTGO Writer and Epic Time-Waster.
If you have questions about MTGO PM me, I'm all up ons, as it were.
Check out my articles on http://puremtgo.com/ I'm the nerd you see there... wait, not that one. Nope, not that one either... yeah. That one.
This is beyond sarcasm...
My Sales Post!
That's not a bad board position, but if I'm playing Jund aggro or even just RG aggro, my turn five would most likely be BBE, cascading into anything from a Jund Hackblade to a Ball Lightning. Or I may choose the less risky route and swing through with a Thunderblust or a Blitz Hellion. I'm not saying Planar Cleansing doesn't have opportunity. That actually sounds like a really interesting matchup.
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
If only there was some way to give your Planeswalkers Indestructibility . And I can't tell if that was sarcasm or not.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Well, that's topic is all about price
I only know two ways for a card to have a good price : being usefull in tournement, or being a casual card. I believe that card is neither. (many will be happy to put it in an EDH deck, but it will only be as a one-of)
When i'm playing casual, i want my cards to have synergies, to do something special, or unexpected. blowing up the WHOLE board seems to me like denying what you've been doing all along (in casual).
tournementaly speaking, i don't mind cards hurting me, as long as they bring something to me. 3WWW for a reset button, a complete reset button, meaning the permanent that helped me getting alive to 6 mana, are destroyed. that means refusing to play the best control tools. (there is a theory running, that control must be more creature oriented, which this card does not allow very well).
I mean, you could (and i did) play around obliterate as it left enchantements unharmed. This does kill everything, you can't play around it, it is too straight forward. As I already said, what every one praise, is, in my opinion, is the worse weakness.
Keep in mind that white has few answers to planewalkers (namely pithing and Oring, and a deck featuring planar cleansing could play none.) Planar cleansing answers your answers
last note on casual, is blowing everything your friend have fun ? well, that may be
What did I win?
~RW Soldiers / RW Aggro (with a side of Giants) [T2]~
On the subject of Planar Cleansing, I think it will see a modicum of play, but most of it will be sideboard based. I really only see it as a direct answer to planeswalkers and things like Bitterblossom that a given (aggro/weenie?) deck wouldn't otherwise main deck answers to.
Past Ruminations
Links are broken, will fix in near future.
- Kaladesh
- Zendikar
- Rise of the Eldrazi
- Alara Reborn
- Innistrad <- Personal Favorite
- Dark Ascension
- Avacyn Restored
- Theros
- Return to Ravnica
- Tarkir
* My list is 64 cards big. That accounts for most cards whose averages are at least $1.
* None of the cards in my Top 21 are under $5.
* None of my Top 13 are below $9.
* None of my Top 7 are below $10.
* None of my Top 5 are below $11. :o:o
->My Top 5 (in order): Baneslayer Angel, Garruk Wildspeaker, Ajani Goldmane, Honor of the Pure, Silence
* My 20th place card is Master of the Wild Hunt, currently averaging $5.75.
* My highest Uncommon is Relentless Rats at $2.54.
* I have 2 Commons on my list: Lightning Bolt ($1.46, 55th) and Duress ($1.09, 61st).
Of course, these are almost exclusively pre-order prices and will go down. But for now, it's fun to see what kind of value each pack might hold this weekend.