We already have birds and hierarchs and everyone is looking at the cobra just going "WOW! WOW! WOW!".
We have rampanth growth and harrow... that thins your deck and everyone is still looking at the cobra.
Alright, I know it have the word "Lotus" in it... but be careful with it... it's not THAT good. Well... I think it's a good card, but only in ramping decks as they will probably run rampanth growth and harrow AS WELL.
Because, for the rest, this cobra is inconsistent as hell!
First, it gives acceleration only when you're ALREADY getting acceleration (which mean only when you're playing a land). It the cobra was a beater, it would be a "win-more" situation.
Secundo... no one noticed that, except harrow and fetchlands shenanigans (which isn't gonna happen each turn), this cobra can produce mana only during your MAIN PHASES. No combat trick with this mana, no counterspells during your opponent's turn, no, no, no...
Will it be played? Yeah, in most decks already playing harrow or 2 sets of fetchlands.
Will it be played in every green deck? Not at all.
If the price of this snake increase, it'll be because someone OUTSIDE OF STANDARD foudnt a way of breaking it in two. But in standard, actually, it's not getting anywhere except in ramping and (maybe) knight of the reliquary decks.
The Cobra is a lot more useful when you flip it with Cascade, though. Birds/Elves/Hierarch/Rampant Growth, not so much. With a fetchland and a turn 1 accelerator, you can play a six drop on turn 3. Identity Crisis anyone? Broodmate?
Well I won't ever have one because it's mythic but I can see how a 2/1 that accelerates into basically 4 mana spells turn 3 as well as attacking will be heavily played in standard.
I still 100% disagree, in any aggressive green deck, it is an absolute must-answer or it will wreak havoc on the gamestate by allowing high-end mana shenanigans. It might not be the best late-game topdeck, but the impact it can have on a game in its early stages is extraordinary.
Ive been wrong before, but I don't think I am on this one. I'd bet money on it if I didn't need to buy 4 lotus cobra (wakka wakka)
Wow, aren't you the negative one. I think this card is good, not insanely broken good, just good. It will never take BoPs or Hierarchs place, but I think it'll find it's uses. You shouldn't compare this card to rampant growth or harrow, it's how it works together with those cards. Imagine playing a fecth, using it, then playing a harrow. That's 4 extra mana you get there, from a play that'll happen pretty often.
And yes, it's vulnerable, but so is almost every 2 drop.
I personally think this card would fit in a very aggressive deck, where the mana it produces is a bonus which can be used to end the game faster.
I'm personally probably gonna build a monogreen, or close to it, deck with this card, not based around it(you can't base a deck around a 2/1 creature), just including it in the deck.
Well... it's really a loto and aggressive decks need to be as consistent as possible to face control.
The thing is that yeah... Lotus Cobra can produce insane mana on turn 3-4.
But it can also produce no mana at all... compared to birds that always produce 1 mana.
As I said in another thread, let's say you have the Cobra in play and 4 lands. Now, you draw your Baneslayer Angel... you'll seriously pray for having birds instead of cobra.
The cobra is a COMBO piece. A fragile one at that (2/1?).
It is relatively average by itself... not really better or worse than birds... but it CAN be explosive in certain situations.
That's the exact definition of combo... so it's not aggressive... it don't control anything... it just combo to produce a huge amount of mana ON A SINGLE TURN then... well... it just dies in the red zone... probably not doing that much damage with all the power creeps out there.
What I don't like with this cobra is that it is just sooooo situational.
Which is usually the definition of a bad card.
It shines on turns 3-4... but later... when acceleration isn't needed anymore... it's nothing more than a 2/1 with no evasion. At least, birds shines on turn 2-3-4...
And missing a land drop with cobra can be way more catastrophic than with birds.
Secundo... no one noticed that, except harrow and fetchlands shenanigans (which isn't gonna happen each turn), this cobra can produce mana only during your MAIN PHASES. No combat trick with this mana, no counterspells during your opponent's turn, no, no, no...
But Harrow & fetches doesn't need to happen every turn, just a couple of times to give you enough of an edge.
And a Harrow alone = 4 mana (outside of the mana you are using for the Harrow) = 2 "free mana"
Don't forget Knight of the Relinquary. An untapped plains/forest = 4 mana:
-Tap the plains/forest
-Sac it to the Knight, find a fetch, get a second mana
-crack the fetch, get a land and a third mana
-tap that land for a 4th mana. Congratulations you just playes Cryptic Command off a single untapped plains!
Add one more if you already have an untapped fetch that cracks for forests or plains.
Don't be fooled, this is an exceptionally good card. If you don't like it, someone else will and you can trade/sell it for $25+
The cobra is a COMBO piece. A fragile one at that (2/1?).
It is relatively average by itself... not really better or worse than birds... but it CAN be explosive in certain situations.
A combo piece that combos with your land drops certainly has broader applications than "combo decks", mate.
Well, I was discussing this with a buddy of mine the other day, and I semi called this card (only got half of its ability right). I'm overjoyed. Why? Because I think this is going to have really good synergy with Oracle of Mul Daya.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Mul Daya's ability seems to make it like you can play as many lands off the top of your library as they appear when you reveal them, yes? Well if that's the case, you could hit your Mul Daya turn four with 3 lands on top of your deck and then play a Rampaging Baloths from your hand in the same turn. And then play the extra land from your hand that turn to drop another token, sacrifice the Khalni Heart Expedition to grab 2 more lands and drop 2 more 4/4 tokens. So by turn 4, you could technically have a 6/6, Three 4/4's, your 2/1 snake, 2/2 Shaman, and 1/1 Llanowar..... yeah that sounds fun. (And then opponent looks at me, lol's, and says Day of Judgement)
But I could also be completely wrong and just jizzin' in my pants for no reason about this, so yes, please correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't think I can explain it any better than anyone else but I'll try. Lotus Cobra allows for explosive starts in standard that haven't been available since dark ritual days. To begin with, unlike the mana guys who have to tap to produce mana, this can produce mana and attack in the same turn. The mana dorks such as Birds of Paradise or Noble Hierarch can only produce one mana at best, where this can easily produce two or more mana based on whether or not "ramp land spells" are also played. Lotus Cobra basically turns any fetchland into a "black lotus " producing three mana from the interactions it has with that fetchland, rather than producing one mana from the land. Once Lotus Cobra is out, a single Harrow can net you four mana (two from the cobra, and two from the lands that came into play). Not only that, but if you have multiples on the battlefield, the ramp that you can get from this guy is just crazy. Lotus Cobra is as good as people are saying. It will be the chase rare of this set.
It's good, just doesn't seem to be the incredible doom everyone predicts. It makes for some slightly quicked openers with basic land. Now that slight quickening might be just what the doctor ordered for some current aggressive decks, but without specialized interactions, he's just an mana elf that can attack for two and produce mana on the same turn (if you have a land). But unlike a mana elf, it can't save your ass from a land screw long term, only short term.
The cobra is only nuts with fetches and major land searching effects. Or with aggro pressure severe enough to need that extra 2 points of attacking while accelerating. Now supposedly, the limited usefulness of the card is supposed to determine it's rarity. In a limited pool, this could possibly be uncommon, maybe rare.
A mythic rare, that is good but not nuts in limited, but borders on must-have nuts only when comboed with a cycle of rare cards. When did marketing design and place cards? This almost offends me for the blatant attempt create very high card prices.
Since you have asked nicely, I shall be happy to correct you {BLS-NC}Khan.
Oracle of Mul-Daya only allows one additional land played per turn. lands played from your library are not exempt from that. you get to play 2 lands, thats it. 2 from the hand. 2 from the top deck. or 1 from hand and 1 from topdeck. no more than that.
re: Lotus Cobra
i think mostly it will eat Lightning Bolts. when it doesn't it can cause all sorts of trouble. it turns every fetch-land into a black lotus (hence the name). i'm thinking the format will be defined by this card as unanswered it is extremely explosive. your deck will have to be able to respond to it before it causes too much trouble.
Lotus Cobra is not a utility card, and its not even really that great. Lotus cobra can bump you to 6 mana turn 3, and even more further on, but ONLY with the use of cards like harrow or fetchlands. without them its a piece of jank. Cards that depend entirely on other cards on not good (see talara's battalion)
Not only this, but it's a one trick pony. you play a turn 3 identity crisis? if i see your cobra out im leaving mana up for my cancel. What after that? you have a 2/1 for 2, not even a bear, im sure i can solve that problem pretty fast. or in response to you sacing your fetchland or your harrow i kill it off (not hard at 1 toughness). Congrats, your combo is screwed up, you have alot of land acceleration cards for a late game hoser. The cobra is too vulnerable, and drawing more copies late game is redundant.
I love the card, i love the flavor, but putting 4 in your deck might work in extended for some insane combo, but i guarantee it won't pass 7 dollars in my book.
I think that this card is really good in the right deck. I think we will be seeing G/R/w aggro running this card. However, I still think that goblins will make this card see a lot less play. You compare this guy to another two drop at random.... Goblin Instigator! Another (basically) 2/1 for 2, but IMHO a much better ability. Instead of getting a baneslayer angel, you get TWO siege gang commanders. That's 8 goblins made. On turn 3. That's nuts.
People are seriously overhyping the ability to attack and produce mana in the same turn. A 2/1 for 2 isn't what it used to be and this thing will barely matter in the red zone and will often in fact be unable to attack without dying.
Lotus Cobra is the Sen Triplets of ZEN. Massive hype followed by total failure.
Oh, that brings me back.
Excellent point there. Let us not forget Jenara! (Or possibly more appropriately, Talara's Batallion)
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keeping in mind that you dont need to build a deck around the snake, because it rewards you for taking a basic game action: putting lands onto the battlefield. anytime you have the snake on the board, every land you play adds two mana, which gives you just that much more tempo advantage over your opponent.
My idea is to play this in a UG deck where I can run the Land Quest too. The deck would of course run the fetches as well. The idea is to be able to play lands and use that mana to play creatures or other drops on my turn then have all my lands open on their turn for counters. Or I can save my fetch until their turn and surprise them with an extra mana they didn't account for. It has the potential to be devastating, but it's not a beast alone.
What I don't like with this cobra is that it is just sooooo situational.
Which is usually the definition of a bad card.
This is where you are wrong. The Cobra is at worst a 2-power creature for two mana, which is decent. At best it is a crazy accelerator (2-3 free mana).
My thoughts on this card is that everyone will want to grab a playset on ebay for about $80 bucks. Try this thing out, and find out that it won't be that amazing. Beyond turn 4ish this turns into a birds if you drop 1 land each turn. If your thinning your deck out of lands with harrow and fetches; past turn 7 I can see people starting to continuously miss land drops. Now this turns into a 2/1 for 1G that has no effect in the game.
Early on, I agree that this has great potential. There is a chance that you could get 6 mana on T3. But in the long run, I like BoP/Noble much better, mainly because you get them on T1, and moreover because of consistency.
people seem to forget that turning all your lands into lands that add two mana is stupidly good, and not just any two mana, but one mana of YOUR choice, and one which you cant really choose. you dont NEED to build a deck around the snake, because the snake rewards you taking an action you would normally do anyway.
I hear Squandered Resources was a good card.
Getting two mana out of each land (once) is good, but this isn't an enchantment. This is a creature that dies to every removal spell in standard, and dies to every creature in standard. (When people say you should be swinging in with it, forgetting all the other people going on about how good aggro is going to be now)
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The point is that you CAN swing with it. Is your opp gonna block with his Heirarch? Maybe if he's on the play and has a putrid leach down or something like that, but lets say you do hit BBE and cascade into something subpar like magma spray (or bolt) you aim it at the leach and he pumps it. If you've got some kind of explosive hand like a fetch you don't attack. If you don't then you're trading a 2/1 for a leech which is good.
Or your opp blocks bloodbraid and you get in for 2 and still have your cobra.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
After sleeping with the cobra in my head (unpleasant) I've come to realize that the cobra would fare much better in control builds.
1. Control protects it better. Remember the new counterspell that stops non-creatures and costs U? it's pretty much tailor-made for this. And green has the new avoid fate.
2. Control usually has more and better high-end cards. Cruel Ultimatum, Baneslayer Angel, even the new octopus lord, you name it.
3. Control can address the "running out of cards" problem. One of the first degenerate things they can do with the cobra is to run card draw to draw into finishers and more lands to keep the cobra going.
4. Control, by definition, has to hit more land drops more consistently. Aggro landfall (if such a thing ever exists) will probably be an all-out onslaught of damage...for a couple turns, then it will either run out of gas (it might kill you in the process, but such is life) or run out of mana, as by definition once more, they're supposed to have a higher density of threats.
I believe wizards is making a good job (in general) in balancing standard. They released Lightning Bolt and we're not that much worse for wear, if they release the snake in the wild (see what I did there?) chances are, they know it can be good but it's not affinity reloaded.
In the end I agree: it will be an expensive card but not that expensive and perhaps it will dominate standard for the first couple months and then get re-checked. I will try to acquire as many cobras and fetchlands as humanly possible, but I won't do outrageous trades for cobras or overspend for them. For now, 4xLightning Bolt and 4xMagma spray ara waiting for me, to have a long talk.
My forecast: $15 rare when the dust settles.
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We already have birds and hierarchs and everyone is looking at the cobra just going "WOW! WOW! WOW!".
We have rampanth growth and harrow... that thins your deck and everyone is still looking at the cobra.
Alright, I know it have the word "Lotus" in it... but be careful with it... it's not THAT good. Well... I think it's a good card, but only in ramping decks as they will probably run rampanth growth and harrow AS WELL.
Because, for the rest, this cobra is inconsistent as hell!
First, it gives acceleration only when you're ALREADY getting acceleration (which mean only when you're playing a land). It the cobra was a beater, it would be a "win-more" situation.
Secundo... no one noticed that, except harrow and fetchlands shenanigans (which isn't gonna happen each turn), this cobra can produce mana only during your MAIN PHASES. No combat trick with this mana, no counterspells during your opponent's turn, no, no, no...
Will it be played? Yeah, in most decks already playing harrow or 2 sets of fetchlands.
Will it be played in every green deck? Not at all.
If the price of this snake increase, it'll be because someone OUTSIDE OF STANDARD foudnt a way of breaking it in two. But in standard, actually, it's not getting anywhere except in ramping and (maybe) knight of the reliquary decks.
Lotus Cobra really is insane.
Ive been wrong before, but I don't think I am on this one. I'd bet money on it if I didn't need to buy 4 lotus cobra (wakka wakka)
Well... it's really a loto and aggressive decks need to be as consistent as possible to face control.
The thing is that yeah... Lotus Cobra can produce insane mana on turn 3-4.
But it can also produce no mana at all... compared to birds that always produce 1 mana.
As I said in another thread, let's say you have the Cobra in play and 4 lands. Now, you draw your Baneslayer Angel... you'll seriously pray for having birds instead of cobra.
The cobra is a COMBO piece. A fragile one at that (2/1?).
It is relatively average by itself... not really better or worse than birds... but it CAN be explosive in certain situations.
That's the exact definition of combo... so it's not aggressive... it don't control anything... it just combo to produce a huge amount of mana ON A SINGLE TURN then... well... it just dies in the red zone... probably not doing that much damage with all the power creeps out there.
What I don't like with this cobra is that it is just sooooo situational.
Which is usually the definition of a bad card.
It shines on turns 3-4... but later... when acceleration isn't needed anymore... it's nothing more than a 2/1 with no evasion. At least, birds shines on turn 2-3-4...
And missing a land drop with cobra can be way more catastrophic than with birds.
But Harrow & fetches doesn't need to happen every turn, just a couple of times to give you enough of an edge.
And a Harrow alone = 4 mana (outside of the mana you are using for the Harrow) = 2 "free mana"
Don't forget Knight of the Relinquary. An untapped plains/forest = 4 mana:
-Tap the plains/forest
-Sac it to the Knight, find a fetch, get a second mana
-crack the fetch, get a land and a third mana
-tap that land for a 4th mana. Congratulations you just playes Cryptic Command off a single untapped plains!
Add one more if you already have an untapped fetch that cracks for forests or plains.
Don't be fooled, this is an exceptionally good card. If you don't like it, someone else will and you can trade/sell it for $25+
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A combo piece that combos with your land drops certainly has broader applications than "combo decks", mate.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Mul Daya's ability seems to make it like you can play as many lands off the top of your library as they appear when you reveal them, yes? Well if that's the case, you could hit your Mul Daya turn four with 3 lands on top of your deck and then play a Rampaging Baloths from your hand in the same turn. And then play the extra land from your hand that turn to drop another token, sacrifice the Khalni Heart Expedition to grab 2 more lands and drop 2 more 4/4 tokens. So by turn 4, you could technically have a 6/6, Three 4/4's, your 2/1 snake, 2/2 Shaman, and 1/1 Llanowar..... yeah that sounds fun. (And then opponent looks at me, lol's, and says Day of Judgement)
But I could also be completely wrong and just jizzin' in my pants for no reason about this, so yes, please correct me if I'm wrong.
The cobra is only nuts with fetches and major land searching effects. Or with aggro pressure severe enough to need that extra 2 points of attacking while accelerating. Now supposedly, the limited usefulness of the card is supposed to determine it's rarity. In a limited pool, this could possibly be uncommon, maybe rare.
A mythic rare, that is good but not nuts in limited, but borders on must-have nuts only when comboed with a cycle of rare cards. When did marketing design and place cards? This almost offends me for the blatant attempt create very high card prices.
Oracle of Mul-Daya only allows one additional land played per turn. lands played from your library are not exempt from that. you get to play 2 lands, thats it. 2 from the hand. 2 from the top deck. or 1 from hand and 1 from topdeck. no more than that.
re: Lotus Cobra
i think mostly it will eat Lightning Bolts. when it doesn't it can cause all sorts of trouble. it turns every fetch-land into a black lotus (hence the name). i'm thinking the format will be defined by this card as unanswered it is extremely explosive. your deck will have to be able to respond to it before it causes too much trouble.
Not only this, but it's a one trick pony. you play a turn 3 identity crisis? if i see your cobra out im leaving mana up for my cancel. What after that? you have a 2/1 for 2, not even a bear, im sure i can solve that problem pretty fast. or in response to you sacing your fetchland or your harrow i kill it off (not hard at 1 toughness). Congrats, your combo is screwed up, you have alot of land acceleration cards for a late game hoser. The cobra is too vulnerable, and drawing more copies late game is redundant.
I love the card, i love the flavor, but putting 4 in your deck might work in extended for some insane combo, but i guarantee it won't pass 7 dollars in my book.
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Turning Fetchlands into Black Lotus(es) is just bonkers.
Oh, that brings me back.
Excellent point there. Let us not forget Jenara! (Or possibly more appropriately, Talara's Batallion)
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This is where you are wrong. The Cobra is at worst a 2-power creature for two mana, which is decent. At best it is a crazy accelerator (2-3 free mana).
Early on, I agree that this has great potential. There is a chance that you could get 6 mana on T3. But in the long run, I like BoP/Noble much better, mainly because you get them on T1, and moreover because of consistency.
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I hear Squandered Resources was a good card.
Getting two mana out of each land (once) is good, but this isn't an enchantment. This is a creature that dies to every removal spell in standard, and dies to every creature in standard. (When people say you should be swinging in with it, forgetting all the other people going on about how good aggro is going to be now)
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Or your opp blocks bloodbraid and you get in for 2 and still have your cobra.
1. Control protects it better. Remember the new counterspell that stops non-creatures and costs U? it's pretty much tailor-made for this. And green has the new avoid fate.
2. Control usually has more and better high-end cards. Cruel Ultimatum, Baneslayer Angel, even the new octopus lord, you name it.
3. Control can address the "running out of cards" problem. One of the first degenerate things they can do with the cobra is to run card draw to draw into finishers and more lands to keep the cobra going.
4. Control, by definition, has to hit more land drops more consistently. Aggro landfall (if such a thing ever exists) will probably be an all-out onslaught of damage...for a couple turns, then it will either run out of gas (it might kill you in the process, but such is life) or run out of mana, as by definition once more, they're supposed to have a higher density of threats.
I believe wizards is making a good job (in general) in balancing standard. They released Lightning Bolt and we're not that much worse for wear, if they release the snake in the wild (see what I did there?) chances are, they know it can be good but it's not affinity reloaded.
In the end I agree: it will be an expensive card but not that expensive and perhaps it will dominate standard for the first couple months and then get re-checked. I will try to acquire as many cobras and fetchlands as humanly possible, but I won't do outrageous trades for cobras or overspend for them. For now, 4xLightning Bolt and 4xMagma spray ara waiting for me, to have a long talk.
My forecast: $15 rare when the dust settles.
"When you show up to the Mirrodin Besieged Prerelease, you'll be asked to choose a faction: Mirran, Phyrexian, or Jaded A-Hole" Aaron Forsythe, on Twitter
Everything changes, nothing remains without a change - Buddha
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