Why are we seeing absolute garbage like this card? Small sets should probably go through a deeper refinement and cleansing process than larger sets. This is a god awful 15th pick in limited (Yes, even the basic land is better) at the UNCOMMON slot.
Edit: I retracted my "bad set" statement. Alot of people showed me the set is actually quite nice other than this stinker.
Edit: Apparently this card rocks in casual if your group allows banned cards. This thread doesn't have anything more to add. Mod please lock?
Is it just me, or is there a serious decline in playability in this set? (Please. No X is the worst set since Y jokes =\ )
I think you are overreacting. Already we have Noble Hierarch, Banefire, Path to Exile, Volcanic Fallout, Martial Coup, and Esperzoa, which are all good IMO, with others being usable in some other cases, like Lapse of Certainty and Malfegor, and there are still 80+ cards to go, and not even all of Nicol Bolas has been spoiled.
This land... yeah, it's pretty lame, but on the + side I really like Ancient Ziggurat, also at the Uncommon level, so for your taste maybe the set isn't boiling down to what you wanted, but so far I am loving it.
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Decks
Commander
Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Aggro/Combo - Favorite) Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks) Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Landfall hijinks) Kaalia of the Vast (Heavily modded)
Good enough for me. R&D goofed up seems to be the only logical reason they'd print a crappy colorless land in a block so color saturated.
Of course, you'd pick that reason to fuel your argument.
Anyway, Tower is a meh card ,but not bad really. A casual Swan/Chain deck can use this in some places, and as well as the UG Cantrip deck mentioned above (I know, because I have one myself...Thanks to Jace's deck.)
This card is a made for Legacy and Vintage. Maybe even EDH. It's ok if you know what to put to use with. It works well with the blue/green draw/mill deck I made which I end up discarding my a gaint portion of my hand. The card isn't as bad as some might think but its not super-de-duper amazing like the other land that was spoiled. The Zigguart is good.
Personally I see this as 1, 5 with a bit of 6 and maybe even 4 - who knows?
How does this card reward a skilled player? I'd love a game where I'm playing control and have more than 7 cards in hand. (Happens in legacy sometimes if I get a good FoF split) If you're playing aggro, you screwed up if you got 8+ cards in hand. If you're playing combo your land needs to have your color so you can cast spells. If you're playing anything you really don't need more than 7 cards in hand.
I think the ONLY thing this qualifies for is "A deck built around this card hasn't been made yet." A deck may indeed break this card, but right now it's a BAD colorless land in a color saturated standard.
Personally I like this card and the uncommon slot is perfect for it. At common everyone would whine that this is always the 14th pick and at rare everyone would whine about how bad their pack was.
This card does something actually useful that hasn't been done before and it opens up decks. (sure casual mostly but decks never the less)
per turn plus a Spellbook effect? I don't think it's so bad.
It seems like a clear Vintage placement to me. Turn 1 Mox Sapphire plus this into an Ancestral Recall? I can see the applications. That's not to say that it will be used but I think that's why it exists.
I dont necessarily see this card as crap. As soon as I saw this I realized that I could put this in my casual control deck that usually has a hand of about 20 cards. Obviously, this card is not for limited, standard, etc., but it will and can be used in other formats.
per turn plus a Spellbook effect? I don't think it's so bad.
It seems like a clear Vintage placement to me. Turn 1 Mox Sapphire plus this into an Ancestral Recall? I can see the applications. That's not to say that it will be used but I think that's why it exists.
LMAO, when this pops up in vintage top8s I'll buy you a foil playset of this card. Do you seriously think they'd run THIS over a infinitely more powerful land Mishra's Workshop ? I don't think you even play vintage if you can even make a statement like that.
Infraction for trolling. Clean up your act please.
Also this does NOT combo with ad nauseum. Ad nauseum decks want to go off on the same turn they play Ad Nauseum. >_> Unless you're talking about a weird ad nauseum 1-drop aggro. In which case I'd love to see a decklist
This card rewards skilled players because skilled players won't pick it in draft (I can't see there being an easy to draft deck where this would be useful) and because skilled players won't put it in their decks unless it really can use it.
An unskilled player who often screws up and ends up having to discard because they don't put enough land in their deck, or what have you, will see this and be pleased and put it in their deck because they think the problem is their maximum hand size and not their deck building (or playing) skills.
That said, as mentioned, it could go into decks that are based around lots of card draw (cantrips, Howling Mines, etc.) or that bounce tons of things at the same time (such as Evacuation) or that just involves lots of bouncing things to your own hand or involves holding an abnormally high number of cards for some reason (only thing I can think of there is splice, really...).
That isn't to say any of those decks will be competitive, but in a lot of those decks it would be better than Spellbook.
LMAO, when this pops up in vintage top8s I'll buy you a foil playset of this card. Do you seriously think they'd run THIS over a infinitely more powerful land Mishra's Workshop ? I don't think you even play vintage if you can even make a statement like that.
Nope, I don't play Vintage. And I'm not saying that it's going to be competitive in Vintage. But it's clearly made for Eternal formats and I'm sure somebody somewhere will attempt to put it to use in such a deck. And that's really all the justification the card needs.
Yes, as a Limited, Standard, Extended, Block Constructed, multiplayer or casual pick it appears to be completely and utterly worthless. Nobody's arguing against that as far as I can tell.
This card rewards skilled players because skilled players won't pick it in draft (I can't see there being an easy to draft deck where this would be useful) and because skilled players won't put it in their decks unless it really can use it.
An unskilled player who often screws up and ends up having to discard because they don't put enough land in their deck, or what have you, will see this and be pleased and put it in their deck because they think the problem is their maximum hand size and not their deck building (or playing) skills.
That said, as mentioned, it could go into decks that are based around lots of card draw (cantrips, Howling Mines, etc.) or that bounce tons of things at the same time (such as Evacuation) or that just involves lots of bouncing things to your own hand or involves holding an abnormally high number of cards for some reason (only thing I can think of there is splice, really...).
That isn't to say any of those decks will be competitive, but in a lot of those decks it would be better than Spellbook.
About the ONLY deck I can see this being a strong card in is Turbofog/Owlingmine style decks that seek to abuse symmetric card draw. This would have been way cooler if BOTH PLAYERS had no max hand size.
Reliquary tower is good. More proof that the general mtgsalvation community has no idea how to evaluate cards
Care to fill us in, great master of all that is tech, Phaethon? Why pray tell is this card good? When have you in your competitive career (oh and for the record FNM doesn't count) have you ever had 8+ cards in hand and lost because you had to discard one of those cards?
Let's try another scenario. When have you lost a game due to color screw? Yeah probably alot more.
Let's put these #s together shall we?
1) Colorless land in a color saturated standard
2) Land that is useless unless extreme conditions are met (Either MASSIVE card draw, or playing nothing)
3) Land that is more useless due to gobs of disruption (Thoughtseize sees heavy play)
4) Land that is useful only in an EXTREME archtype variation (Mine effects, mass card draw, some odd combo variant)
As an UNCOMMON this is crap. It isn't worth even looking at because if a combo deck that abuses it comes around, you can pick up a playset for all of 1-2$.
Seriously. You have some odd card evaluation skills man.
As for the random guy who said "LAWL UG CANTRIP DECK?" You mean THRESHOLD? Cause 1) Going over 8 cards in thresh = lawl, 2) Hi I'm color screw, nice to meet you.
This card does not make sense being in this environment, since there is heavy multicolor saturation.
This card could be quite a good card in the correct deck, but from the stand point of the set it is put into, it does not seem to fit with their multicolor theme, in fact it seems to play very bad with the rest of the set, which I believe is Arcane's point.
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Edit: I retracted my "bad set" statement. Alot of people showed me the set is actually quite nice other than this stinker.
Edit: Apparently this card rocks in casual if your group allows banned cards. This thread doesn't have anything more to add. Mod please lock?
Good enough for me. R&D goofed up seems to be the only logical reason they'd print a crappy colorless land in a block so color saturated.
This land... yeah, it's pretty lame, but on the + side I really like Ancient Ziggurat, also at the Uncommon level, so for your taste maybe the set isn't boiling down to what you wanted, but so far I am loving it.
Commander
Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Aggro/Combo - Favorite)
Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks)
Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Landfall hijinks)
Kaalia of the Vast (Heavily modded)
Standard
Waiting for Innistrad...
Extended
Hah!
Modern
Living End Cascade (RGB)
Legacy
Burn
Vintage
None
Casual
WB Aggro-Control
Green Stompy
Pink Floyd (UWr Wall Control)
Lunch Box (Fatty ramp)
D-Bag (White Control)
Level 13 Task Mage
Of course, you'd pick that reason to fuel your argument.
Anyway, Tower is a meh card ,but not bad really. A casual Swan/Chain deck can use this in some places, and as well as the UG Cantrip deck mentioned above (I know, because I have one myself...Thanks to Jace's deck.)
How does this card reward a skilled player? I'd love a game where I'm playing control and have more than 7 cards in hand. (Happens in legacy sometimes if I get a good FoF split) If you're playing aggro, you screwed up if you got 8+ cards in hand. If you're playing combo your land needs to have your color so you can cast spells. If you're playing anything you really don't need more than 7 cards in hand.
I think the ONLY thing this qualifies for is "A deck built around this card hasn't been made yet." A deck may indeed break this card, but right now it's a BAD colorless land in a color saturated standard.
This card does something actually useful that hasn't been done before and it opens up decks. (sure casual mostly but decks never the less)
It seems like a clear Vintage placement to me. Turn 1 Mox Sapphire plus this into an Ancestral Recall? I can see the applications. That's not to say that it will be used but I think that's why it exists.
:symu::symr::symg: Maelstrom Wanderer
LMAO, when this pops up in vintage top8s I'll buy you a foil playset of this card. Do you seriously think they'd run THIS over a infinitely more powerful land Mishra's Workshop ? I don't think you even play vintage if you can even make a statement like that.
Infraction for trolling. Clean up your act please.
"games people play - dice, cards...what are they but quick methods of wasting a man's money, and sending him straight off to become a thief?"
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http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=144995
Reading = Tech
Also this does NOT combo with ad nauseum. Ad nauseum decks want to go off on the same turn they play Ad Nauseum. >_> Unless you're talking about a weird ad nauseum 1-drop aggro. In which case I'd love to see a decklist
An unskilled player who often screws up and ends up having to discard because they don't put enough land in their deck, or what have you, will see this and be pleased and put it in their deck because they think the problem is their maximum hand size and not their deck building (or playing) skills.
That said, as mentioned, it could go into decks that are based around lots of card draw (cantrips, Howling Mines, etc.) or that bounce tons of things at the same time (such as Evacuation) or that just involves lots of bouncing things to your own hand or involves holding an abnormally high number of cards for some reason (only thing I can think of there is splice, really...).
That isn't to say any of those decks will be competitive, but in a lot of those decks it would be better than Spellbook.
Nope, I don't play Vintage. And I'm not saying that it's going to be competitive in Vintage. But it's clearly made for Eternal formats and I'm sure somebody somewhere will attempt to put it to use in such a deck. And that's really all the justification the card needs.
Yes, as a Limited, Standard, Extended, Block Constructed, multiplayer or casual pick it appears to be completely and utterly worthless. Nobody's arguing against that as far as I can tell.
About the ONLY deck I can see this being a strong card in is Turbofog/Owlingmine style decks that seek to abuse symmetric card draw. This would have been way cooler if BOTH PLAYERS had no max hand size.
Care to fill us in, great master of all that is tech, Phaethon? Why pray tell is this card good? When have you in your competitive career (oh and for the record FNM doesn't count) have you ever had 8+ cards in hand and lost because you had to discard one of those cards?
Let's try another scenario. When have you lost a game due to color screw? Yeah probably alot more.
Let's put these #s together shall we?
1) Colorless land in a color saturated standard
2) Land that is useless unless extreme conditions are met (Either MASSIVE card draw, or playing nothing)
3) Land that is more useless due to gobs of disruption (Thoughtseize sees heavy play)
4) Land that is useful only in an EXTREME archtype variation (Mine effects, mass card draw, some odd combo variant)
As an UNCOMMON this is crap. It isn't worth even looking at because if a combo deck that abuses it comes around, you can pick up a playset for all of 1-2$.
Seriously. You have some odd card evaluation skills man.
As for the random guy who said "LAWL UG CANTRIP DECK?" You mean THRESHOLD? Cause 1) Going over 8 cards in thresh = lawl, 2) Hi I'm color screw, nice to meet you.
Upheaval, yo.
This card does not make sense being in this environment, since there is heavy multicolor saturation.
This card could be quite a good card in the correct deck, but from the stand point of the set it is put into, it does not seem to fit with their multicolor theme, in fact it seems to play very bad with the rest of the set, which I believe is Arcane's point.
Proud Member of People for the Ethical Treatment of Numbers
Yep, when I play a control deck I try to see how many cards I can have in my hand before my opponent kills me.
Seriously, this card is not good.