Now that Terminate's about to be back in Standard I want to look at recreating the power that Machine Head had back in the day. It harnessed 187 in FtK, removal in Terminate and board sweep in the form of Plague Spitter. Here's my attempt at an ARB Standard Machine Head deck with what we know so far...
With the amount of elementals in the deck, and the ability to up the number...I was thinking of a very, very sub-par version of a Standard Plague Spitter. Pyroclast Consul could be tested, at least, in that spot. I couldn't think of any other recurring sweepers in Standard.
With the amount of elementals in the deck, and the ability to up the number...I was thinking of a very, very sub-par version of a Standard Plague Spitter. Pyroclast Consul could be tested, at least, in that spot. I couldn't think of any other recurring sweepers in Standard.
Ideas, please.
If you're thinking of putting in Pyroclast Consul, I must ask if Resounding Thunder is needed. A Nameless Inversion could go in its place and count as an Elemental Shaman, while killing the same range of creatures, plus getting around pro red and damage prevention, and some of the time being pump (on, say, Nyxathid), while costing less, and not forcing you to run :symg:-capable lands.
Great use of dredgery of the past.
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If you're thinking of putting in Pyroclast Consul, I must ask if Resounding Thunder is needed. A Nameless Inversion could go in its place and count as an Elemental Shaman, while killing the same range of creatures, plus getting around pro red and damage prevention, and some of the time being pump (on, say, Nyxathid), while costing less, and not forcing you to run :symg:-capable lands.
Great use of dredgery of the past.
Cycled Resounding Thunder is as close as I can get to Urza's Rage!
It seems very playable, and that's always good. if you were to remove the Resounding Thunders for Nameless Inversion and the Mind Shatter for a Pyroclast Consul drastically changed the Curve, However it made it more fun looking, although Pyroclast really hurts you more taking away your Hyppies (and God forbid you Hard cast a Shriekmaw) than Plague Spitter did. If only they Printed Pyromania in Xed
Actually i built one of these in the Decks for Critique Forum, splashing White for removal like Path and Oring.
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If you're trying to get Urza's Rage, just use moar Banefire, lol.
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I was talking with someone who said he had put Cragganwick Cremators in a deck with Hellsparks and the like, to devastating effect. He ripped out wins [i]stupid[i] fast.
His deck ran Nova Chaser too, but you don't have to do that. Or you could.
Ooh! And Cremator counts Nyxathid as a 7. Yes, this actually combos; Nyxathid can't shrink unless there is an opponent the first ability chose.
.. and omgooses, a Nova Chaser would combo with the Hell lightning creatures. Sure, only with a lot of mana, but you can champion them and should they return they would be without a self-imposed timer.
It's likely I'm overemphasizing the power of these combos relative to straight consistent options. But they're all I know how to point out.
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I would recommend running some thought hemorrage (that new cranial extraction thing), other than that I cant really think of any meaningful additions. The new extraction will ensures that random CC's or other removal that seems particularly harmful will stay out of the match, with extra damage to speed up the clock on them.
Nice catch, Phyre. I'm actually interested. I'll just jot down the list and work on it myself. If I have anything of use I'll be sure to contact you.
To avoid having this post called spam or anything of that sort, I'll make a suggestion right now, just to contribute to the thread:
We need more creatures that can double up as disruption as well, perhaps something faster than Hypnotic Specter. Also, we don't have Dark Ritual anymore, therefore we lack much of the speed the old deck had. This means that we might have to sacrifice some of it's speed for some raw card advantage/power. Bitterblossom would be my suggestion.
Is Hell's Thunder better than Ashenmoor Gouger/Shambling Remains in this meta? I tend to favor the Remains in the current metagame, which I doubt we'll see many, if any, significant shifts.
Methinks this deck needs at least four more 1-drops, preferably something red. Manaforge Cinder might be useful for early mana-fixing although it would be much better if it actually accelerated your deck. Perhaps Flamekin Bladewhirl or Flamekin Harbinger would help, since you seem to be running enough elementals to make either one worthwhile. The Harbinger in particular would give you a good way to fetch a Shriekmaw or Nyxathid for the next turn. I agree that dropping Resounding Thunder for something like Nameless Inversion would be a good idea. If nothing else, it would smooth out your mana base and make the deck much more consistent.
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I think you should concentrate more on what the machine head deck was trying to do than finding card for card replacement.
That would be ideal. But that's also really really hard.
Going for the card-for-card replacement may be the best place to start looking for a translation into the current meta. Obviously the deck is going to evolve through some playtesting. The work that would go into trying to replicate "what the old one did" would just be repeated in this process.
Ditch hellspark elemental, it's only good in straight burn
I don't know the old deck Machine Head. Does anyone have a link to some list, preferably avec actual coverage of its use back in the day?
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Just my opinion, but when I think of Machine Head, 'aggro toolbox' is the phrase that comes to mind. Ditch the Specters and hellsparks IMO. Lose one Hell's Thunder as well. I would actually replace those 8 creature slots with some Flamekin Bladewhrils, and perhaps even a few of te Kederekt Parasite.
I think Profane Command is essential here. For four or 5 mana you can recur the majority of your creatures: especially nasty ones like Hell's Thunder and Nyxathid. I'd ditch the Resounding Thunders for 4 Profanes. Or who knows...with cards like the Blossom and Assault perhaps it's possible for Red/Black tokens to become semi-viable.
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Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
The only card I'm not sure about is Void as it was in the earlier versions of the deck and WotC page with the list of WC decks had 3 white cards in the deck with 0 white sources available so I know that wasn't correct.
I think the hardest parts of this deck to replace are the angels and the spitters. Angel had evasion, pro white, and tricks with kavus and burned skizziks. Spitter could keep constant damage every turn and keep back the little guys all ona small body. Oh what I would give to have the spitter reprinted. Would be a fricken house with all the tokens running around.
I expect that the deck did good, since it made worlds and all, but honestly that sure looks like a lot of life lost just from your own spells. Would seem a flame javelin or a few incinerates would really wreck you.
Well, there's no way to recreate the deck due to lack of ritual, so probably the best you could do would be a take on Blightning. Between Blightning, the new Cranial, and Thoughtseize, there's plenty of discard/disruption. Murderous Redcap and Shreikmaw fill in the 187 creature slots. Terminate is excellent removal, and Banefire does a nice Urza's Rage impression. Figure of Destiny plays the part of early aggression, and if white is splashed, Tidehollow Sculler can be used for additional disrution/aggression. The only problem is repeated removal.
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Machine Head was more aggro control than straight up aggro. Duress and Blazing Specter kept hands light, Rishadan Port denied mana and Plague Spitter/Flametongue Kavu/Terminate killed everything that did resolve. Rishadan Port was one of the key cards, the same way it was in Fires, to resolve something big on your turn.
Honestly you should either go the suicide aggro route with the whole unearth shebang or go the more controlling route like the World Championship deck did. The good news is that it already exists: Blightning Beatdown.
I figured that Nekrataal or Shriekmaw could also act as a decent FtK removal. They also take out a large chunk of played creatures. I do currently play both Shambling Remains and Goblin Outlander in my Blightning deck. The biggest missing correlation in the deck from the old Machine Head is Plaguespitter. It is one of my favorite creatures in magic, but it's doubtful we're going to get anything related to it anytime soon. So I was wondering if Pyroclast Consul might be a possibilty. Also, Hell's Thunder is a pseudo-Skizzik without the possibilty to Kick-It.
First of all, I beg your help with the manabase. I'm awful with it
I just started to play de Redcaps and ohmy they are awesome, hurting PW's and killing birds and Hierarchs (man, i hate them!). I chose it over Shriekmaw and it was a success.
I splashed U for the Spectre and it worked ok. With Evasion, 3 power, discard and unearth, this guy suddenly became one of my favorites of the entire deck, and the triple color cost wasn't hard to achieve (though my friends say i'm just a lucky *** :D). Soon I started to think how the new Dragon could fit, and several games later It's been a blast. The Spellbound is a really good finisher (with him in play, the game doesn't last more than three turns) and a great blocker.
I was wondering if I should replace Browbeat for Mulldrifter?
First of all, I beg your help with the manabase. I'm awful with it
I just started to play de Redcaps and ohmy they are awesome, hurting PW's and killing birds and Hierarchs (man, i hate them!). I chose it over Shriekmaw and it was a success.
I splashed U for the Spectre and it worked ok. With Evasion, 3 power, discard and unearth, this guy suddenly became one of my favorites of the entire deck, and the triple color cost wasn't hard to achieve (though my friends say i'm just a lucky *** :D). Soon I started to think how the new Dragon could fit, and several games later It's been a blast. The Spellbound is a really good finisher (with him in play, the game doesn't last more than three turns) and a great blocker.
I was wondering if I should replace Browbeat for Mulldrifter?
Thoughts, advices?
Well if you're going for a Standard deck (which I'd imagine you are since everything else is in Standard) you kind of have to.
If you're looking for a straight up replacement for FtK, Spitebellows can take out anything that lands for sure (evoked of course). Now it sucks that you don't get to keep him around, but in the current standard it may not be necessary.
Around here our FNMs are not really filled with top tier deck, but when they are and spitebellows makes an appearance it has some pretty interesting results.
Machinehead worked because of one card, DARK RITUAL. It's impossible to make a deck like that now that's just R/B. Dark Ritual made many decks viable that wouldn't be otherwise
04 Hypnotic Specter
04 Hell's Thunder
03 Hellspark Elemental
03 Nyxathid
02 Shriekmaw
02 Demigod of Revenge
Spells
04 Thoughtseize
04 Terminate
04 Blightning
04 Resounding Thunder
02 Banefire
01 Mind Shatter
08 Swamp
07 Mountain
04 Savage Lands
02 Graven Cairns
01 Twilight Mire
01 Fire-Lit Thicket
04 Pithing Needle
04 Volcanic Fallout
04 Relic of Progenitus
03 Thought Hemorrhage
With the amount of elementals in the deck, and the ability to up the number...I was thinking of a very, very sub-par version of a Standard Plague Spitter. Pyroclast Consul could be tested, at least, in that spot. I couldn't think of any other recurring sweepers in Standard.
Ideas, please.
If you're thinking of putting in Pyroclast Consul, I must ask if Resounding Thunder is needed. A Nameless Inversion could go in its place and count as an Elemental Shaman, while killing the same range of creatures, plus getting around pro red and damage prevention, and some of the time being pump (on, say, Nyxathid), while costing less, and not forcing you to run :symg:-capable lands.
Great use of dredgery of the past.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
Cycled Resounding Thunder is as close as I can get to Urza's Rage!
Actually i built one of these in the Decks for Critique Forum, splashing White for removal like Path and Oring.
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I was talking with someone who said he had put Cragganwick Cremators in a deck with Hellsparks and the like, to devastating effect. He ripped out wins [i]stupid[i] fast.
His deck ran Nova Chaser too, but you don't have to do that. Or you could.
Ooh! And Cremator counts Nyxathid as a 7. Yes, this actually combos; Nyxathid can't shrink unless there is an opponent the first ability chose.
.. and omgooses, a Nova Chaser would combo with the Hell lightning creatures. Sure, only with a lot of mana, but you can champion them and should they return they would be without a self-imposed timer.
It's likely I'm overemphasizing the power of these combos relative to straight consistent options. But they're all I know how to point out.
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To avoid having this post called spam or anything of that sort, I'll make a suggestion right now, just to contribute to the thread:
We need more creatures that can double up as disruption as well, perhaps something faster than Hypnotic Specter. Also, we don't have Dark Ritual anymore, therefore we lack much of the speed the old deck had. This means that we might have to sacrifice some of it's speed for some raw card advantage/power. Bitterblossom would be my suggestion.
Is Hell's Thunder better than Ashenmoor Gouger/Shambling Remains in this meta? I tend to favor the Remains in the current metagame, which I doubt we'll see many, if any, significant shifts.
Ditch hellspark elemental, it's only good in straight burn
That would be ideal. But that's also really really hard.
Going for the card-for-card replacement may be the best place to start looking for a translation into the current meta. Obviously the deck is going to evolve through some playtesting. The work that would go into trying to replicate "what the old one did" would just be repeated in this process.
I don't know the old deck Machine Head. Does anyone have a link to some list, preferably avec actual coverage of its use back in the day?
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
I think Profane Command is essential here. For four or 5 mana you can recur the majority of your creatures: especially nasty ones like Hell's Thunder and Nyxathid. I'd ditch the Resounding Thunders for 4 Profanes. Or who knows...with cards like the Blossom and Assault perhaps it's possible for Red/Black tokens to become semi-viable.
Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
2 Crypt Angel
2 Flametongue Kavu
3 Phyrexian Scuta
4 Plague Spitter
3 Skizzik
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
4 Terminate
3 Urza's Rage
3 Vendetta
6 Mountain
6 Swamp
4 Rishadan Port
4 Sulfurous Springs
4 Urborg Volcano
3 Addle
1 Crypt Angel
1 Flametongue Kavu
2 Persecute
3 Phyrexian Arena
1 Pyroclasm
4 Scoria Cat
The only card I'm not sure about is Void as it was in the earlier versions of the deck and WotC page with the list of WC decks had 3 white cards in the deck with 0 white sources available so I know that wasn't correct.
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I figured that Nekrataal or Shriekmaw could also act as a decent FtK removal. They also take out a large chunk of played creatures. I do currently play both Shambling Remains and Goblin Outlander in my Blightning deck. The biggest missing correlation in the deck from the old Machine Head is Plaguespitter. It is one of my favorite creatures in magic, but it's doubtful we're going to get anything related to it anytime soon. So I was wondering if Pyroclast Consul might be a possibilty. Also, Hell's Thunder is a pseudo-Skizzik without the possibilty to Kick-It.
I finished my Machine Head (Grixis version) last Monday, and it's verrrrrry funny. Things blow up. Players cry. Take a look:
4 Thoughtseize
4 Magma Spray
4 Terminate
4 Blightning
3 Profane Command
2 Condemn
2 Browbeat
4 Sedraxis Specter
3 Hell's Thunder
3 Nyxathid
2 Murderous Redcap
2 Spellbound Dragon
First of all, I beg your help with the manabase. I'm awful with it
I just started to play de Redcaps and ohmy they are awesome, hurting PW's and killing birds and Hierarchs (man, i hate them!). I chose it over Shriekmaw and it was a success.
I splashed U for the Spectre and it worked ok. With Evasion, 3 power, discard and unearth, this guy suddenly became one of my favorites of the entire deck, and the triple color cost wasn't hard to achieve (though my friends say i'm just a lucky *** :D). Soon I started to think how the new Dragon could fit, and several games later It's been a blast. The Spellbound is a really good finisher (with him in play, the game doesn't last more than three turns) and a great blocker.
I was wondering if I should replace Browbeat for Mulldrifter?
Thoughts, advices?
Well if you're going for a Standard deck (which I'd imagine you are since everything else is in Standard) you kind of have to.
Around here our FNMs are not really filled with top tier deck, but when they are and spitebellows makes an appearance it has some pretty interesting results.
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Too lazy to search, but its shining moment was the 2001 Worlds. Tom van de Logt, I think.
A turn 3 Phyrexian Negator or turn 4 Blazing Specter wasn't scary...but a turn 1 Negator or turn 2 specter was very scary.