That's a valid point, that somebody might make a janky deck with one good card, but you don't HAVE TO use bad cards. Birds, battlewand oak, and wall of roots are already good on their own, and forbidding watchtower is worth playing in this deck. There is also the possibility of other Lorwyn cards that would go well with it and also be good alone.
Also, a midrange control deck wouldn't want to have too many creatures in play at the same time anyway. Maybe there's no *** or Damn in Lorwyn, so swarm decks might be viable in block const.
Only one problem with Doran... He's just too freaking good on his own. Almost every card that you could combo with him to exploit his effect is just plain worse than him, thus not being worth combining.
Right, so... don't build around him? The best deck that I see for him currently is Extended Domain Zoo/GMGT, which can easily cast him and which he fits perfectly into. That deck by definition plays only the most efficient creatures available... his effect doesn't require exploitation. At casual tables, sure, he's be making deadly Walls of Roots all day long, but in tournament play, he's a 5/5 for three. That's more than enough.
Right, so... don't build around him? The best deck that I see for him currently is Extended Domain Zoo/GMGT, which can easily cast him and which he fits perfectly into. That deck by definition plays only the most efficient creatures available... his effect doesn't require exploitation. At casual tables, sure, he's be making deadly Walls of Roots all day long, but in tournament play, he's a 5/5 for three. That's more than enough.
Yeah, well, that's the problem. It doesn't take much deckbuilding finesse to take a card like this and stuff it in a deck with Goyf and 20 other dorks with high p/t. That's what simply makes Doran unexciting for me. The card is uber, but the actual deckbuilding possibilities it gives are inane.
As for casual play, building a high-toughness or treefolk tribal deck to use Doran as an enabler to me is paramount to running 4 Sol Rings and 4 Demonic Tutors as enablers to power out Bosh, Iron Golem. Not something I find exciting either.
I agree, run Doran as a 5/5 for 3 not as a tool to turn bad creatures good, you do have to take his effect into consideration when building with him but as long as you avoid high power low toughness creatures(Groundbreaker etc.) he's fantastic. He becomes really good when you combine him with solid creatures who have a slightly higher toughness than power like Tarmogoyf for instance which is a great creature which gets a +1/+0 benefit from Doran, or Ohran Viper which gets a +2/+0 benefit. Extended with Anurid Brushopper, Burning-Tree Shaman, Kird Ape and so on is a good place for him.
Before you start laughing about Vhati il-Dal, just remember that with Doran in play, turning any creature's toughness to one until end of turn, effectively turns it into a 1/1. A near-Humility every turn isn't that bad.
It's NOT 5/5 for 3. It is 5/5 for GWB. This means it can usually only go in a GWB deck, or a deck of two of those colors that can splash another color. It's possible to get it out on turn 2, but it's also rare that this would happen, unless your opening hand has birds, AND a forest, AND a plains or swamp or something. A deck that wants to cast this creature fast will have to devote a lot of cards to mana fixing, which isn't a bad idea, but you can't splash it in a deck that's mostly one color. Unless you're playing reanimator, then you can pretty much play whatever huge creatures you want.
It's NOT 5/5 for 3. It is 5/5 for GWB. This means it can usually only go in a GWB deck, or a deck of two of those colors that can splash another color. It's possible to get it out on turn 2, but it's also rare that this would happen, unless your opening hand has birds, AND a forest, AND a plains or swamp or something. A deck that wants to cast this creature fast will have to devote a lot of cards to mana fixing, which isn't a bad idea, but you can't splash it in a deck that's mostly one color. Unless you're playing reanimator, then you can pretty much play whatever huge creatures you want.
So... you can only play this in decks that are the colors that it is. Thanks for the tip.
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Seems to me this is good in Extended Gaea's Might Get There Zoo decks. It's a 5/5 for 3 in a deck that has no problems getting three different colors of mana (or even 5), and it pumps: Tarmogoyf, Kird Ape, and Boros Swiftblade. Definitely solid.
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It's NOT 5/5 for 3. It is 5/5 for GWB. This means it can usually only go in a GWB deck, or a deck of two of those colors that can splash another color.
What's nice about this card is that it also enhances the color fixers / mana producers you'll be using to play him on turn 2 or turn 3 -- birds and wall of roots.
There's also chromatic star, gemstone mine, and dual lands... so on and so forth.
I'll be sure to pack at least 1 Crookclaw Transmuter in my UB Teachings because of this guy. Total Homerun, I just hope standard can support that kind of mana cost.
....not good... I dont mean the card the card is amazing. I mean im gonna hate vsing a treefoke deck hitting me with turn 3 5/5's and indestuctables all day. For the love of god release the other Greater Elementals. Also treefoke apparently all have really high Toughness for low cost. That scares me..alot
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i hate to burst your bubble men, but you are talking about making wall of roots and wall of blossoms into beaters...
last time i checked, walls have defender..
yust my 2 cents
back again atlast
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“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.” —Volrath
i hate to burst your bubble men, but you are talking about making wall of roots and wall of blossoms into beaters...
last time i checked, walls have defender..
yust my 2 cents
back again atlast
So... a 5/5 blocker on my side of the table is bad because? Add they are cheap and have utility value...
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This card is definetly one of the most intresting pieces to come out of lorwyn so far..
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The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
And just when I thought Wizards is running out with ideas. (I used to think that the whole promoting of a nostalgia theme in TS is just a big coverup for their lack of ideas) THIS CARD IS FREAKING GREAT, AND I LOVE THE CONCEPT!
It automatically upgrades Wall of Roots from the ultimate aggro stopper, to an uber killing machine that defends ur arse from early rushes. (DIE goblins!) Yeah, I do realise Wall of Roots can't attack but upgrading it from 0/5 to 5/5 and holds the fort rather well.
Forbidding Watchtower would see more play. It's time to dust off those Ohran Vipers. Detractors of Glittering Wish post Ravnica can eat their hearts out, with Saffi, Gaddock, Teneb and this darn uber Treefolk to assemble a good Wish SB without the goodness of Ravnica's multicolored cards.
I used to swear off playing black, but this dude instilled interest in me. And now that I dun have to invest in $20 Rav duals to make my deck competitive, it's a real possibility for me in the near future for competitive T2.
For now, here's the base for the deck. Let me know what u guys think of it.
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Wall of Roots
4 Tarmagoyf
4 Ohran Viper
3 Doran the Siege Tower
2 Teneb, the Harvester
4 Edge of Autumn
3 Glittering Wish
Saffi and Gaddock are best left to the SB cos' they're best against Control, and I'll be expecting alot of aggro. Being Wish-able puts my mind at ease against blue based Control decks in Round 1. The other slots should be covered by some black based removal (Slaughter Pact for damn Magus of the Moon) and other good Treefolk that would (hopefully) be revealed in the coming weeks.
Less Teneb, more Mystic Enforcer plz. It's stronger in very many ways. Also, Doran is extraordinary enough to be a 4-of.
Well, it depends. He's fairly difficult to kill - immune to Terror and out of burn range - but he's also going to be an extremely high priority target for any deck. I'd say 3-of at first, and test 4.
EDIT: Ok, I see someone else mentioned that. To avoid a spam infraction I'll add that the treefolk Harbinger not only guarantees you get Doran on turn 3, but also swings for 3 damage the turn you play Doran. Ridiculous! This deck builds itself!
My first crack at a decklist, doesnt revolve around Doran but he is a nice swing for 7 on turn 3 through the air.
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My first crack at a decklist, doesnt revolve around Doran but he is a nice swing for 7 on turn 3 through the air.
4 flagstone and only 1 plain? that part doesn't make sense.
I would also prefer slaughter pact over terror, cause Magus of moon pwns your mana base.
that mana base looks like it HURTS
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Wall of Roots
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Doran, the Seige Tower
4x Penumbra Spider
Spells:-18
4x Summoner's Pact
4x Tendrils of Corruption
3x Loxodon Warhammer
3x Harmonize
2x Wrath of God
2x Terror
Sideboard:-15
4x Gaddok Teeg
3x Extirpate
3x Krosan Grip
2x Wrath of God
1x Terror
1x Teneb, the Harvester
1x Verdeloth, the Ancient
So quick overview!
This deck is designed to be like the Rock, or Aggro Rock in a way. The key differences is that most creatures in the deck have big front ends, like so:
-Forbidding Watchtower is now 6/6 for 2
-Birds is a 1/1 that can get you t2 Doran
-Wall of Roots is a 5/5 Defender that gives you mana at the cost of p/t.
-Doran is a 5/5 that makes everything else strike with their toughness
-Penumbra Spider is TWO 4/4s for 4 that can block fliers!
-Tarmogoyf is now a 4/4 or a 5/5 as Doran ups his power by one.
Every creature can be tutor'd for via Pact, and so can Gaddok Teeg, Verdeloth and Teneb out of the SB.
Warhammer is unfortunately useless for it's +3/+0 with Doran out, but offers anyone Trample and Lifelink.
Tendrils offers life gain in tandem with the Warhammer and the 2x odd Wraths, allowing this deck to utterly obliterate opposing aggro decks.
Extirpate + Gaddok are brought in vs. Control Combo and thusly improve your matchups there a ton.
Also, a midrange control deck wouldn't want to have too many creatures in play at the same time anyway. Maybe there's no *** or Damn in Lorwyn, so swarm decks might be viable in block const.
Tarmogoyf is still better, because it costs 1G
Right, so... don't build around him? The best deck that I see for him currently is Extended Domain Zoo/GMGT, which can easily cast him and which he fits perfectly into. That deck by definition plays only the most efficient creatures available... his effect doesn't require exploitation. At casual tables, sure, he's be making deadly Walls of Roots all day long, but in tournament play, he's a 5/5 for three. That's more than enough.
Yeah, you're right, it sucks if you play him alongside Ironroot Treefolk and Obsianus Golem. So play him alongside Watchwolf and Kird Ape instead.
As for casual play, building a high-toughness or treefolk tribal deck to use Doran as an enabler to me is paramount to running 4 Sol Rings and 4 Demonic Tutors as enablers to power out Bosh, Iron Golem. Not something I find exciting either.
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04 Birds of Paradise
04 Wall of Roots
04 Battlewand Oak
04 Tarmogoyf
03 Gaddock Teeg
03 Saffri Eriksdotter
03 Doran, the Siege Tower
01 Harmonic Sliver
04 Glittering Wish
04 Cruel Edict
02 Slaughter Pact
02 Summoner's Pact
Land
07 Forest
05 Plains
05 Swamp
04 Horizon Canopy
01 Pendelhaven
03 Oblivion Ring
03 Terror
02 Harmonic Sliver
02 Mystic Enforcer
01 Saffi Eriksdotter
01 Gaddock Teeg
01 Doran, the Siege Tower
01 Teneb, the Harvester
01 Vhati il-dal
Before you start laughing about Vhati il-Dal, just remember that with Doran in play, turning any creature's toughness to one until end of turn, effectively turns it into a 1/1. A near-Humility every turn isn't that bad.
So... you can only play this in decks that are the colors that it is. Thanks for the tip.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
What's nice about this card is that it also enhances the color fixers / mana producers you'll be using to play him on turn 2 or turn 3 -- birds and wall of roots.
There's also chromatic star, gemstone mine, and dual lands... so on and so forth.
Standard
Extended
WUBSisters GrandeurWUB
Legacy
RBWElemental's Are FunRBW
last time i checked, walls have defender..
yust my 2 cents
back again atlast
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
So... a 5/5 blocker on my side of the table is bad because? Add they are cheap and have utility value...
/WIN
5/5 manland? SIGN ME UP AND FAST..
This card is definetly one of the most intresting pieces to come out of lorwyn so far..
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
It automatically upgrades Wall of Roots from the ultimate aggro stopper, to an uber killing machine that defends ur arse from early rushes. (DIE goblins!) Yeah, I do realise Wall of Roots can't attack but upgrading it from 0/5 to 5/5 and holds the fort rather well.
Forbidding Watchtower would see more play. It's time to dust off those Ohran Vipers. Detractors of Glittering Wish post Ravnica can eat their hearts out, with Saffi, Gaddock, Teneb and this darn uber Treefolk to assemble a good Wish SB without the goodness of Ravnica's multicolored cards.
I used to swear off playing black, but this dude instilled interest in me. And now that I dun have to invest in $20 Rav duals to make my deck competitive, it's a real possibility for me in the near future for competitive T2.
For now, here's the base for the deck. Let me know what u guys think of it.
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Wall of Roots
4 Tarmagoyf
4 Ohran Viper
3 Doran the Siege Tower
2 Teneb, the Harvester
4 Edge of Autumn
3 Glittering Wish
Saffi and Gaddock are best left to the SB cos' they're best against Control, and I'll be expecting alot of aggro. Being Wish-able puts my mind at ease against blue based Control decks in Round 1. The other slots should be covered by some black based removal (Slaughter Pact for damn Magus of the Moon) and other good Treefolk that would (hopefully) be revealed in the coming weeks.
Well, it depends. He's fairly difficult to kill - immune to Terror and out of burn range - but he's also going to be an extremely high priority target for any deck. I'd say 3-of at first, and test 4.
3-of MD, 4th in the Wishboard, perhaps?
EDH:
UBGThe MimeoplasmUBG
EDIT: Ok, I see someone else mentioned that. To avoid a spam infraction I'll add that the treefolk Harbinger not only guarantees you get Doran on turn 3, but also swings for 3 damage the turn you play Doran. Ridiculous! This deck builds itself!
4 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Forest
3 Llanowar Wastes
3 Caves of Koilos
3 Horizon Canopy
3 Gemstone Mine
4 Chromatic Star
3 Griffin Guide
3 Terror
4 Call of the Herd
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Doran the Siege Tower
3 Mystic Enforcer
3 Wall of Roots
4 Birds of Paradise
My first crack at a decklist, doesnt revolve around Doran but he is a nice swing for 7 on turn 3 through the air.
4 flagstone and only 1 plain? that part doesn't make sense.
I would also prefer slaughter pact over terror, cause Magus of moon pwns your mana base.
that mana base looks like it HURTS
Lands:-22
4x Horizon Canopy
3x Forbidding Watchtower
3x Llanowar Wastes
3x Caves of Koilos
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Forest
2x Swamp
2x Plains
Creatures:-20
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Wall of Roots
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Doran, the Seige Tower
4x Penumbra Spider
Spells:-18
4x Summoner's Pact
4x Tendrils of Corruption
3x Loxodon Warhammer
3x Harmonize
2x Wrath of God
2x Terror
Sideboard:-15
4x Gaddok Teeg
3x Extirpate
3x Krosan Grip
2x Wrath of God
1x Terror
1x Teneb, the Harvester
1x Verdeloth, the Ancient
So quick overview!
This deck is designed to be like the Rock, or Aggro Rock in a way. The key differences is that most creatures in the deck have big front ends, like so:
-Forbidding Watchtower is now 6/6 for 2
-Birds is a 1/1 that can get you t2 Doran
-Wall of Roots is a 5/5 Defender that gives you mana at the cost of p/t.
-Doran is a 5/5 that makes everything else strike with their toughness
-Penumbra Spider is TWO 4/4s for 4 that can block fliers!
-Tarmogoyf is now a 4/4 or a 5/5 as Doran ups his power by one.
Every creature can be tutor'd for via Pact, and so can Gaddok Teeg, Verdeloth and Teneb out of the SB.
Warhammer is unfortunately useless for it's +3/+0 with Doran out, but offers anyone Trample and Lifelink.
Tendrils offers life gain in tandem with the Warhammer and the 2x odd Wraths, allowing this deck to utterly obliterate opposing aggro decks.
Extirpate + Gaddok are brought in vs. Control Combo and thusly improve your matchups there a ton.
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