I was hoping that we were done with expensive manabases for a while so I would have preferred these being uncommon. Yes, they are good since you only have to reveal and not discard or sacrifice a member of your tribe. It's also not a dead card if you don't have any doods in your hand. I'm guessing $7-8 at first and then leveling out at $5-6 depending on which tribes are the hot stuff.
I guess around $7 at most... Unlike real expensive duals, these aren't an auto-include in every deck with their colors.
Remember when City of Brass was the only mana fixing we had, in 8th edition? Well, even then it didn't rise so high in price. Since Extended, Legacy, and Vintage already have better lands to play with, the price on these things won't inflate too much.
because it's a dual land. and there aren't any allied dual colours in standard right now.
No, we don't even have allied duallands in Future Sight, that are just better.
I think the BR land will be the most expensive.. If there are good black goblins in Lorwyn than most goblin decks will run black and Patriarch's Bidding.
I'm guessing the 3-5 dollar range. In anything other than a tribal deck, they're just going to be rare taplands. We've already got a set of taplands from from Coldsnap, and none of those see play other than in budget decks. It will all depend on how many tribal decks become viable.
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They are pretty much strictly better than the Invasion taplands which were played and had .5-1 dollar value. Approx 1-2 dollar value on this basis.
They are rare and therefore harder to get playsets of than uncommons. This increases the value to 3-4 dollar.
From this I think that 3-4 dollars is the starting point.
Ones that can be played in control decks like the UB one(especially since Faerie Spellmesser is without a doubt playable in counter control) will probably be up to 5-6 dollars value.
Ones that are in a good viable tribe like the BR goblin one and the GB elf one will probably be up to 7-8 dollars value.
Even pushing it the dollar value won't go beyond 10 dollars because even the good ones lack something almost every other rare dual has in common. The ability to be played in any style of deck regardless of style(control, combo, aggro, mix) and the ability to be played equally well regardless of the contents of the deck..
The only way I can conceive of it topping the 10 dollar value is if one of the tribes is so strong that it forms a deck which becomes the undisputed number 1 to beat deck in standard(like Raffinity was back in the day). The BR goblins land might have the potential however I seriously doubt wizards will repeat the mistake of onslaught block and create goblins as a tribe far superior to all the rest.
EDIT: Most probably the only one that will be expensive is the boggart one. the B/R, since it can be easily played in legacy. However, it isn't a swamp nor a mountain, so It can't be fetched out. This can be a real problem, especially in a format where decks suffer too much wasteland. Dunno what to think about them at the moment.
The only black card that Goblins play is Bidding, if Lorwyn provides us enough recourses for B/R goblin, we can use a cheap and strong mana base with Graven Cairns, The Gob-dual and painlands besides duals and fetches
In standard a Gobbo deck can use Cairns, dual and pain.
I think that the price will go from 3 to 5. These cards aren't that great in standard. Most probably they will played a lot in block, if tribal will be that dominant.
And, anyway
ah. Yes, I got the point. Horizon Canopy is WAAAY worse than the kithkin one, right?
Ah, and I want to tell you that X has got all 10 painlands. But, If you want to play 4x of the fairy land in a Dralnu build, you are free to do what you want. I'll still play the painlands and the FS duals.
EDIT: Most probably the only one that will be expensive is the boggart one. the B/R, since it can be easily played in legacy. However, it isn't a swamp nor a mountain, so It can't be fetched out. This can be a real problem, especially in a format where decks suffer too much wasteland. Dunno what to think about them at the moment.
i still stand by my original estimate. this will not drop below $15. you'll be able to trade these lands for tarmogoyfs straight up.
I GUARANTEE IT. just like i guarantee more inane threads about new cards' prices.
i still stand by my original estimate. this will not drop below $15. you'll be able to trade these lands for tarmogoyfs straight up.
I GUARANTEE IT. just like i guarantee more inane threads about new cards' prices.
Excactely, I'll trade my Giant and Elf lands for your Gaddock's, Garruk's and Tarmogoyf's
Tarmogoyf is an auto-include for every non-combo green deck.. How can you compare those narrow duals with that overpowered card?
I think it depends on critical mass in the set. If there is one dual for each tribe, it will drive the price down, since you have 8 in a set rather than the 4 that were in ravnica, for instance. These lands are much narrower than the shocklands, or the future sight lands, or even pains.
Still, i believe tribal strategies will pay off, and block will be popular, so these should be 5-8 dollar cards. However, since there are other good mana options, and these don't play well in older formats (and perhaps even standard, depending on how strong tribes are) I have a hard time believing these will rally up in price. People will want them, but to suggest they will all be uniformly 15 or so is pretty nuts. If i had to guess right now, goblin and elf will be worth the most off the bat, and kithkin and merfolk will be the sleepers.
$2-4 for the majority of the duals, $8 for the best tribe or two. Prices will spike when block season starts.
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How can we make any realistic price comparison when most of the cards that make these lands viable are currently unknown to most players? Let's hold off on these lands until more tribal is revealed.
I guess around $7 at most... Unlike real expensive duals, these aren't an auto-include in every deck with their colors.
Remember when City of Brass was the only mana fixing we had, in 8th edition? Well, even then it didn't rise so high in price. Since Extended, Legacy, and Vintage already have better lands to play with, the price on these things won't inflate too much.
Yeah, I voted 7-10, but after reading this I realized that the "other" formats (nonstandard, nonblock) have a lot more influence on secondary market prices. I'm going with 5-7, although they will be as heavily played in standard and block as the shocklands have been.
Im saying 12+ because theyre rare mana fixers and were losing some of the best ones when rav rotates out so there will be a demand for them on the basis of needing mana fixers.
That being said Ive never hoped I was wrong more than I do now if Im dead wrong and the price was 6 or less for all of em even BR Ill be jumping for joy and pulling out my credit card
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Every rarity gets good cards. That means that some mythic rares will be tournament quality as will some commons, some uncommons and some rares. My promise wasn't that mythic rares wouldn't get good cards but that we wouldn't limit the good cards to only being mythic rare.
Bear this in mind the next time a powerful mythic rare is spoiled
Thanks to chaostheory90 for finding this quiz for me
These will not be strictly better than coldsnap lands - they MAY be, but only if the environment slows down enough to permit the probability that they will come into play tapped. These are a "build a deck around me card" - if you don't have the right ratio of the tribal card in hand or play or whatever it will slow tempo. THAT may be okay (see above).
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This thread is pointless until we know more about the tribes.
Eh, its for the prestige points of proving you are psychic.
I expected the CIPT lands of Coldsnap to replace the shocklands. Nope, these will. Unless you want snow mana, even running these in a deck with a just a handful of tribal cards is certain to be better.
I put $5-7... This set has enough cool stuff folks may prefer to buy packs instead of ebaying it.
the problem with these lands is you need a LOT of the tribe they represent
for example, in a green white deck, you have to have enough kithkin to stop them coming in play tapped 95% of the time. In an aggro deck, a land coming into play tapped is absolute death if it doesn't pose a threat by it's self.
this is why tap duals are bad, but megaliths and treetop village are good... you're still gaining board position playing them, even if you aren't tapping for mana. they also increase your threat density. it's initial tempo lost but, the mintue you swing for an extra tree, or ping your opponent it's all worthwhile
in control colour combos, these lands are a lot weaker. it is nice that you don't hurt yourself, thus helping you against aggro, but you are forced to play a lot of creatures you might not want. aggro/control will be happy to have these though.
R/B is obviously going to be best (especially because goblins are black in this set, and red in Xth and TSP). Given that Carins is one of the best of the FS duals, black red should be able to have unlimited mana fixing.
Elf dual lands will be nice, though I haven't seen any really compelling reasons to even use black in an elf deck, short of the changling +3/-3 spell. unless black gets some powerful aggro elves to supplement watchwolf elf, the green/black dual land will be relativly useless. even 8elf.dec (boreal + llanowar) can't guarantee this will come into play untapped.
green white, as mentioned looks very useful. it's a pitty the colour has so many problems, but Kithkin will probably end up being a monowhite deck that uses Horizons and tribal lands to splash green for goyf, saffi, teeg, and pump effects
red white will probably not be playable unless there's a glut of good changeligns or tribal giant spells. 4 Brion doesn't help
U/W and U/B will both have a strong chance of being played. Merfolk splashing for white creature removal seems reasonable to me. Nimbus maze plays very poorly with the taplands but it's almost certainly worse than them or adarker wastes.
A cost estimate would be $3 to 8 depending on how much each tribe gets played. Red white will be least, R/B and G/W will be most, and the rest will fall in between
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because it's a dual land. and there aren't any allied dual colours in standard right now.
Remember when City of Brass was the only mana fixing we had, in 8th edition? Well, even then it didn't rise so high in price. Since Extended, Legacy, and Vintage already have better lands to play with, the price on these things won't inflate too much.
No, we don't even have allied duallands in Future Sight, that are just better.
I think the BR land will be the most expensive.. If there are good black goblins in Lorwyn than most goblin decks will run black and Patriarch's Bidding.
They are rare and therefore harder to get playsets of than uncommons. This increases the value to 3-4 dollar.
From this I think that 3-4 dollars is the starting point.
Ones that can be played in control decks like the UB one(especially since Faerie Spellmesser is without a doubt playable in counter control) will probably be up to 5-6 dollars value.
Ones that are in a good viable tribe like the BR goblin one and the GB elf one will probably be up to 7-8 dollars value.
Even pushing it the dollar value won't go beyond 10 dollars because even the good ones lack something almost every other rare dual has in common. The ability to be played in any style of deck regardless of style(control, combo, aggro, mix) and the ability to be played equally well regardless of the contents of the deck..
The only way I can conceive of it topping the 10 dollar value is if one of the tribes is so strong that it forms a deck which becomes the undisputed number 1 to beat deck in standard(like Raffinity was back in the day). The BR goblins land might have the potential however I seriously doubt wizards will repeat the mistake of onslaught block and create goblins as a tribe far superior to all the rest.
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The only black card that Goblins play is Bidding, if Lorwyn provides us enough recourses for B/R goblin, we can use a cheap and strong mana base with Graven Cairns, The Gob-dual and painlands besides duals and fetches
In standard a Gobbo deck can use Cairns, dual and pain.
i still stand by my original estimate. this will not drop below $15. you'll be able to trade these lands for tarmogoyfs straight up.
I GUARANTEE IT. just like i guarantee more inane threads about new cards' prices.
Excactely, I'll trade my Giant and Elf lands for your Gaddock's, Garruk's and Tarmogoyf's
Tarmogoyf is an auto-include for every non-combo green deck.. How can you compare those narrow duals with that overpowered card?
Still, i believe tribal strategies will pay off, and block will be popular, so these should be 5-8 dollar cards. However, since there are other good mana options, and these don't play well in older formats (and perhaps even standard, depending on how strong tribes are) I have a hard time believing these will rally up in price. People will want them, but to suggest they will all be uniformly 15 or so is pretty nuts. If i had to guess right now, goblin and elf will be worth the most off the bat, and kithkin and merfolk will be the sleepers.
And so does not lose the enemy's defeat.
Therefore, the victorious military is first victorious and after that does battle.
The defeated military first does battle and after that seeks victory."
Yeah, I voted 7-10, but after reading this I realized that the "other" formats (nonstandard, nonblock) have a lot more influence on secondary market prices. I'm going with 5-7, although they will be as heavily played in standard and block as the shocklands have been.
That being said Ive never hoped I was wrong more than I do now if Im dead wrong and the price was 6 or less for all of em even BR Ill be jumping for joy and pulling out my credit card
Bear this in mind the next time a powerful mythic rare is spoiled
Thanks to chaostheory90 for finding this quiz for me
tribal is not going to run THAT rampant...there will be other archetypes, and they are not going to use these.
ROORftw-there are actually 10 allied duals in Standard...the FS ones, and the painlands, which people seem to forget exist.
Strictly better does not mean much better! Stop using it like that!
This thread is pointless until we know more about the tribes.
Eh, its for the prestige points of proving you are psychic.
I expected the CIPT lands of Coldsnap to replace the shocklands. Nope, these will. Unless you want snow mana, even running these in a deck with a just a handful of tribal cards is certain to be better.
I put $5-7... This set has enough cool stuff folks may prefer to buy packs instead of ebaying it.
for example, in a green white deck, you have to have enough kithkin to stop them coming in play tapped 95% of the time. In an aggro deck, a land coming into play tapped is absolute death if it doesn't pose a threat by it's self.
this is why tap duals are bad, but megaliths and treetop village are good... you're still gaining board position playing them, even if you aren't tapping for mana. they also increase your threat density. it's initial tempo lost but, the mintue you swing for an extra tree, or ping your opponent it's all worthwhile
in control colour combos, these lands are a lot weaker. it is nice that you don't hurt yourself, thus helping you against aggro, but you are forced to play a lot of creatures you might not want. aggro/control will be happy to have these though.
R/B is obviously going to be best (especially because goblins are black in this set, and red in Xth and TSP). Given that Carins is one of the best of the FS duals, black red should be able to have unlimited mana fixing.
Elf dual lands will be nice, though I haven't seen any really compelling reasons to even use black in an elf deck, short of the changling +3/-3 spell. unless black gets some powerful aggro elves to supplement watchwolf elf, the green/black dual land will be relativly useless. even 8elf.dec (boreal + llanowar) can't guarantee this will come into play untapped.
green white, as mentioned looks very useful. it's a pitty the colour has so many problems, but Kithkin will probably end up being a monowhite deck that uses Horizons and tribal lands to splash green for goyf, saffi, teeg, and pump effects
red white will probably not be playable unless there's a glut of good changeligns or tribal giant spells. 4 Brion doesn't help
U/W and U/B will both have a strong chance of being played. Merfolk splashing for white creature removal seems reasonable to me. Nimbus maze plays very poorly with the taplands but it's almost certainly worse than them or adarker wastes.
A cost estimate would be $3 to 8 depending on how much each tribe gets played. Red white will be least, R/B and G/W will be most, and the rest will fall in between