OK, we originally thought mortify would be purtify only it could hit enchantments. RE's source said it doesn't have the cannot be regenerated clause. Does this hurt it's chances at being playable in T2 or Ext? I mean vindicate didn't have this clause but it could hit lands and artifacts too. What regeneraters are there in t2 and ext that could hurt this card. I'll list the ones I can think of.
Ext: Troll Ascetic Doesn't matter cause it can't be targeted.
Affinity with welding jar could be anoying but could be played around.
Spiritmonger could be anoying but no one really uses these anymore.
Can't think of too many others. Most creatures are expendible or come back with genesis so regeneration isn't a factor.
i think it's silly to think this won't be playable. frankly i can't wait to get my paws on a set. does it really matter if they can't be regenerated? esp when 50% of your targets won't be able to regen anyway?
Well on the thread where it was spoiled that they could still be regenerated people were crying about it being garbage now. I'm just trying to get peoples opinions.
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Vindicate will still be excellent for these janky B/W/x decks that want a nice tempo advantage and the ability to mana screw people, but being able to destroy creatures and enchantments at instant speed might warrant a few maindeck spots or at the very least a sideboard spot.
I don't think it's that relevant. Very few regenerating creatures are played nowadays, and there arent' any enchantment regens. 98% of the time, this won't matter.
The mana cost has not yet been revealed however. It is possible that given those colors and the abilities that this will cost WB for an instant. This is unlikely, but it is something that needs to be thrown out there.
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it will be played since it essentially cuts out 4 sideboard slots. In stead of having enchanment removal in for only games 2 and 3 you have it maindeck. This will be very powerful especially as Glare of Subdual and Enduring Ideals decks become more and more common.
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Would you run Putrefy or Mortify in B/W/G control decks?
I think that determines the playability of the card. Are you more concerned about Artifacts or Enchantments? Enchantments have gotten a bit of a free ride with Mirrodin block, but this seems to bring some better hate. Possible preparation for the next block's enchantment theme?
Personally, I would rather run Mortify at the moment, since I can off the creature carrying the Jitte, and still cap Greater Goods and Glare of Subdual whenever I need to.
Look at a lot of the main decks right now. How many are running some type of enchantment/artifact hate in the main? Seed Spark or Naturalize? A lot.
Mortify allows more flexibility than Putrefy in the current environment, so Mortify will be played OVER Putrefy.
In a BWG control deck I could feasibly see running both. Heck, why not. If 4 incredibly versatile creature kill spells are good, aren't 8 better? Most black decks are running Rend or Sickening Shoal or Last gasp alongside Putrefy right now, why not replace these with the incredibly versatile mortify?
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Firstoff, Wildfire, your sig just made my day. Secondly, I think to make it one of the better power uncommons of GP, which I want it to be, it should cost WB. 1WB is still great, but the other powers will probably be better. In my WGB, if I make it, I will run a book of both, coz they both rock. Goodtymes.
well i personally think that mortify not having regen will actually make a differance so little of the time (like 1%) that it just doesnt matter...i think the downfall of it is that it kills enchantments and not artifacts...i guess enchantments are starting to be better and with the cycle of leylines comeing out...i guess mortify will probably be better that putrify at least in T2
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The missing regeneration clause will be overlooked by many as they come to realize that the only playable (and targettable) things that regenerate in Constructed are Spiritmonger and Ink-Eyes (disregarding Legacy and Vintage, where I don't think regeneration matters much anyway). It'll rarely come into play, and I think it will still be played.
I think the whining on the boards about the loss of "can't be regenerated" is annoying too. They'll still play the card though.
It's true, Instant > Sorcery. Doing something at the end of their turn and untapping (basically resulting in the spell being free) > Doing something during your turn and kicking yourself once they play a bigger threat on their turn.
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Getting the last word does not mean that you win the argument.
And don't forget, that all 4 of the top 4 decks at worlds had very heavy reliance on enchantments. (Mori and Kagi's glare decks, Karsten's Greater Gifts, and Asahara's Enduring Ideal deck)
People must remember that the card hasn't come out yet, so they can't complain that the card is bad!
It will be played in almost every W/B decks in constructed. It even works with haunt and there are almost as much enchantments as artifacts in the format (as I remember).
I know that i gonna play it (if it mana cost isn't 4 or more). the most competitive is glare/greater gifts. and in my country there are some hearbeat too.
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Anyway, as it is an instant, it is definately playable. Black has enchantment and artifact kill now in standard.
He was referring to cards that regenerate enchantments. It can be done, just not in any competitive deck. Opalescence and anything like Death Ward will do it in Vintage, for example. But you wouldn't, so who cares?
The non-regeneration clause makes just about 0% difference. The fight between Mortify and Putrefy is the artifact vs enchantment. I know that Putrefy will be better in Extended, and from what I know of Standard (not much), Mortify makes a bigger difference there. Jitte is the one artifact in Standard everyon knows about. As has been said, enchantments have Glare of Subdual and Greater Good, both nightmares. Throw in Enduring Ideal and it just grows.
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My anecdotal evidence disagrees with yours! EXPLAIN THAT!
And don't forget, that all 4 of the top 4 decks at worlds had very heavy reliance on enchantments. (Mori and Kagi's glare decks, Karsten's Greater Gifts, and Asahara's Enduring Ideal deck)
I think that pretty much sums up whether Mortify is garbage or not. Putrefy is to Jitte as Mortify is to Glare/Greater Good/Form etc. I've said it before, but Glare will be in Rav. Block Constructed and a card that can destroy a creature and also destroy Glare will be very playable.
I think this card is gonna be great in Standard, enchantmets have gone wild and this should take care of 'em nicely. A little splash and that's it, maindeck 4.
i know ill be playing mortify and i think its better in t2than puterfy cuzlike usaid jitte is the onlyaartifact thats everyones playing while there are so many enchantments especially where i goto play
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Start from there. I could be wrong but the only creatures in Standard this batch can't deal with are the Myojins and Grandpa.
And other than the Black one, who plays ANY of those?
I bet good money that B/W/G control decks will be the new tier one deck when GP rotates in. The best elements of control from B/W and G accel and you have a LION'S share of win conditions to choose from.
We don't have a mana cost on this card yet.
How can you say it's playable or not if it actually costs 14BW or WB or Guildmana W/B-W/B or just W/B?
The simple answer is that you can't.
If it costs 2 mana instead of 3, it's easily as playable as putrefy. If it costs 3, it's playability is measured by the impact of enchantments on standard (currently somewhat low besides Fetters and Ideal targets).
As has already been said, Glare and Greater Good are already big in standard. Also, Anthem is still around in WWr. Enchantments are comming back in a big way and this along with Putrefy are a great one-two punch for any BGW deck.
The final decision should always come down to each area's meta-game though. Personally, I plan on running both.
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Ext:
Troll Ascetic Doesn't matter cause it can't be targeted.
Affinity with welding jar could be anoying but could be played around.
Spiritmonger could be anoying but no one really uses these anymore.
Can't think of too many others. Most creatures are expendible or come back with genesis so regeneration isn't a factor.
T2:
Isao, Enlightened Bushi could be problematic if anyone uses him anymore.
Golgari Grave-Troll They will usually let him die anyway so they can dredge. Hes probably more a factor in ext anyway.
Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni She is anoying but they usually tap out to play her anyway.
Most of the others aren't playable.
Discuss. If you think of any others I'll add them.
Vindicate will still be excellent for these janky B/W/x decks that want a nice tempo advantage and the ability to mana screw people, but being able to destroy creatures and enchantments at instant speed might warrant a few maindeck spots or at the very least a sideboard spot.
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I think that determines the playability of the card. Are you more concerned about Artifacts or Enchantments? Enchantments have gotten a bit of a free ride with Mirrodin block, but this seems to bring some better hate. Possible preparation for the next block's enchantment theme?
Personally, I would rather run Mortify at the moment, since I can off the creature carrying the Jitte, and still cap Greater Goods and Glare of Subdual whenever I need to.
Look at a lot of the main decks right now. How many are running some type of enchantment/artifact hate in the main? Seed Spark or Naturalize? A lot.
Mortify allows more flexibility than Putrefy in the current environment, so Mortify will be played OVER Putrefy.
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I think the whining on the boards about the loss of "can't be regenerated" is annoying too. They'll still play the card though.
It's true, Instant > Sorcery. Doing something at the end of their turn and untapping (basically resulting in the spell being free) > Doing something during your turn and kicking yourself once they play a bigger threat on their turn.
And don't forget, that all 4 of the top 4 decks at worlds had very heavy reliance on enchantments. (Mori and Kagi's glare decks, Karsten's Greater Gifts, and Asahara's Enduring Ideal deck)
It will be played in almost every W/B decks in constructed. It even works with haunt and there are almost as much enchantments as artifacts in the format (as I remember).
Ahem.
Anyway, as it is an instant, it is definately playable. Black has enchantment and artifact kill now in standard.
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He was referring to cards that regenerate enchantments. It can be done, just not in any competitive deck. Opalescence and anything like Death Ward will do it in Vintage, for example. But you wouldn't, so who cares?
The non-regeneration clause makes just about 0% difference. The fight between Mortify and Putrefy is the artifact vs enchantment. I know that Putrefy will be better in Extended, and from what I know of Standard (not much), Mortify makes a bigger difference there. Jitte is the one artifact in Standard everyon knows about. As has been said, enchantments have Glare of Subdual and Greater Good, both nightmares. Throw in Enduring Ideal and it just grows.
I think that pretty much sums up whether Mortify is garbage or not. Putrefy is to Jitte as Mortify is to Glare/Greater Good/Form etc. I've said it before, but Glare will be in Rav. Block Constructed and a card that can destroy a creature and also destroy Glare will be very playable.
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4x Putrefy
4x Mortify
Start from there. I could be wrong but the only creatures in Standard this batch can't deal with are the Myojins and Grandpa.
And other than the Black one, who plays ANY of those?
I bet good money that B/W/G control decks will be the new tier one deck when GP rotates in. The best elements of control from B/W and G accel and you have a LION'S share of win conditions to choose from.
How can you say it's playable or not if it actually costs 14BW or WB or Guildmana W/B-W/B or just W/B?
The simple answer is that you can't.
If it costs 2 mana instead of 3, it's easily as playable as putrefy. If it costs 3, it's playability is measured by the impact of enchantments on standard (currently somewhat low besides Fetters and Ideal targets).
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Just to clarify:
As has already been said, Glare and Greater Good are already big in standard. Also, Anthem is still around in WWr. Enchantments are comming back in a big way and this along with Putrefy are a great one-two punch for any BGW deck.
The final decision should always come down to each area's meta-game though. Personally, I plan on running both.