Creature - Insect
Dredge 1(If you would draw a card, you may instead put the top card of your library into your graveyard and put ~This~ from your graveyard into your hand.)
(?), Sacrifice ~This~: Draw a card.4/4
I gotta ask: am I the only one who sees this as a 4/4 Blinky? It will be in the graveyard before you have to choose to use it's replacement effect so essentially you can return it to hand for (?) as a fast effect (ie, after damage is on the stack). 5cc seems a fairly reasonable cost for this (good, actually, if it wasn't two-color -- but that might not be that much of a drawback in RAV). If the (?) is reasonable (0 or 1 ), this could be a house.
I think we should temporarily dub it BlinkBug.
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"If you desire the spleen, and will laugh yourself into stitches, follow me." -- Twelfth Night
I assume the Draw a card ability will have a heavy cost attached like 3 or 4 mana. But yes the way its currently worded you could skip its draw to put it into your hand. I highly doubt that it will sac for free.
I think all GB decks will run 3 or 4 Sensei's Div. Top, so they can choose the card they discard (usually a land, or a "bad" card) ^^
SD Tops with the Dark Confidant also, otherwise that guy could get pricey.
And I agree, 3-4 is most likely what the sac cost will be (I was just dreaming). Fleeting image RTH cost is what? 2? Anything less than 3 on this bug could get abusive, guessing the the G/B boys will have some more graveyard tricks. Anything with goin'-to-the-graveyard triggers can be manipulated repeatedly.
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"If you desire the spleen, and will laugh yourself into stitches, follow me." -- Twelfth Night
Wow I didn't notice that about that card.
I can't wait to pull one of those on someone at the prere.
Its the kind of trick that will really be pissing people off at the prerelease.
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Comparing it to Yavimaya Elder, (which I don't think is broken so as to make it unfair as comparison, it even has a graveyard trigger!) I don't think the ability should cost any more than 2 colorless.
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im actually more surprised about the GB guild and its black ability, it can abuse any come into ply or leave play abilities that are particulary good in these colors: ravenous rats, mindslicer, viridian shaman (9ed), wood elves, sakura tribe elder, and the bunch of life gainin loxodons from RAV.
Im quite interested in a BG aggro/control deck with the guild and the 4/4 drudge insect
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:spirit2:
So what do you see as the major use of this? To block your opponents creature, then sac it for (?) and return it to ur hand right away?
Yes, but don't forget the fact that this is a 4/4 threat that recurs itself (drawing you cards in the process), which is a huge asset in the long game. This can go in aggo-control or control since recurring threats are historically rather hard for other decks to stop when you combine them with control/disruption and other routes to victory.
I think the most realistic guess for the cost of its ability is 3. For comparison, Genesis is a 4/4 threat that can recur itself for 2G. However, with Genesis you gain the ability to return other creatures. With this insect you draw a card each time you sac it. From a numbers point of view, Genesis gives you +1 card advantage every time you use its ability. So does this. 3 seems ideal.
I love this card. I love BG. Ravnica is going to be awesome.
I would not be surprised to see other CIPT or sac effects on cards with Dredge since those are likely to be more interesting than vanilla beaters. But I doubt that there will be a card that is simply a smaller version of this.
Dredge could be really good if you have multiple dredge cards in your deck, since essentially every dredge card in your graveyard is on top of your library and each time you dredge you get more cards in your graveyard to choose from.
right!! almost tutoring creatures good. And with all the reanimator creatures/spells in RAV and 9th dredge could become a good contender. WE have: zombify, the RAv reanimator that adds a counter, the insect guild, and the arcanes in kami block
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Ingredientes:
Leche de cabra, azucar, glucosa, carbonato.
(no contiene colorantes ni saborizantes artificiales).
:spirit2:
Hmmmm 3 Seems a wee bit pricy to me... Lets look at the G/W power house
the Luxodon its a 4/4 for 4, it gives 4 life when it comes into play and it can sac for only WG to Wail of the Nim your Army... that last sac effect is realy powerfull and only for 2 multi mana, It is my belief that BlinkBug 8^) will sac for G/B , it makes sence considering that The creatures that sac for card draw in the past have been 2 colorless. IT fits the flavor of Rav and it balences this card (not realy lol). As a card itself, Its a ***** against Control players, to bad Dredge skips a draw . Sorry that was just wishfull thinking.
Anyone care to rip my theroy a new a$$hole? if so your probaly right
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i agree that the cost would be BG, sac~: draw a card. It helps the multicolor theme, and supposedly taking 2 colors reduces the cost, so it makes sense that they would make it cost less than by making it BG.
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i agree that the cost would be BG, sac~: draw a card. It helps the multicolor theme, and supposedly taking 2 colors reduces the cost, so it makes sense that they would make it cost less than by making it BG.
Any way you look at it, this is going to be a control powerhouse. Given that you will usually have at LEAST 15-20 cards in your library at the end of a game, you can recur this upwards of 10 times without any risk of decking yourself (barring other Dredge Creatures or something like Arc Slogger). And with no mana cost to return it, it takes just 5 mana a turn to play this guy every turn. Now this is already a fairly good deal. But add in the ability to draw a card every time he dies (or to immediately redraw/recast ~) and you've got a filthy creature.
I see this guy as a recurrable finisher, potentially in a land kill deck. You can play this guy as soon as you are able to and happily have him trade off against another creature or eat un an elimination spell, then bring him back next turn for the cost of a single mill.
The best thing about him is that he's very hard to get rid of permanently, as soon as the board is clear of anything he can't handle, you can bet he'll be back in play next turn. Eventually your opponent will run out of ways to deal with him, especially if you're blowing up their land.
4/4 means he can stand up to a pretty solid creature, and shrug off most burn. Plus he put's your opponent on a 5 turn clock. With 4 of these in your deck you can afford to run heaps of land destruction and rely on him to be the win condition.
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I'm old school, about as OLD school as they get. think 4th Edition/Ice Age old school. Unfortunatley in the "Real world" you cant Incinerate your bank manager and sadly now I have joined the ranks of the older population, and my time is taken up by things like reasearching Mortgage Refinance Rates and where to get the best possible mortgage quotes. I have however discovered the joys of Online Forex Trading which at least allows me to keep the bills in check!
Emm you have to skip a draw to recur it (read the dredge reminder text) so you don't draw cards in the process of recurring it. If you want the insect back you have to skip a draw. So there's no +1 card advantage.
The math is a bit tricky, so I will clarify:
Play Bug (+0 cards)
Sac Bug (+1 cards assuming you sacced in response to lethal damage, removal spell, etc)
Recur Bug (either next draw step or immediately... it doesn't matter when you recur since this there is no card-advantage involved in recurring it) (+0 card advantage).
OR:
Play Bug (+0 cards)
Sac Bug, Dredge to redraw immediately (+1 cards)
The recursion is more like draw-fixing... it is the Sac ability that generates card advantage (which is why I say that 3 mana will make it the same cost-wise as Genesis).
With this and other dredge threats (like the flying venom imp) you could build a really annoying limited deck. And in constructed it gets worse because the dredges from creature A put creature B in your GY where you can dredge it, zombify it or hell's caretaker it.
With this and other dredge threats (like the flying venom imp) you could build a really annoying limited deck. And in constructed it gets worse because the dredges from creature A put creature B in your GY where you can dredge it, zombify it or hell's caretaker it.
maybe in limited we can play a more then 40 card deck if we drafted dredge creatures. We´ll get them anyway and that way we can assure not to get decked by the flying imp, its a common you know.
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Ingredientes:
Leche de cabra, azucar, glucosa, carbonato.
(no contiene colorantes ni saborizantes artificiales).
:spirit2:
The imp will be a staple of many new reanimation deck's I'm certain. With Zombify in 9th and the new Black "Bleed" Zombify in Rav. We have 2 very solid reanimation tools to go along with what Kamigawa block gave us. Heck, even Hell's Caretaker could get some play if things shape up well for him.
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I'm old school, about as OLD school as they get. think 4th Edition/Ice Age old school. Unfortunatley in the "Real world" you cant Incinerate your bank manager and sadly now I have joined the ranks of the older population, and my time is taken up by things like reasearching Mortgage Refinance Rates and where to get the best possible mortgage quotes. I have however discovered the joys of Online Forex Trading which at least allows me to keep the bills in check!
I think the issue is that you have to sacrifice the bug to get the card - so sacrificing it gives +0 card advantage, not +1.
Think of it this way: if you draw the bug, play it, and sacrifice it, you've traded the bug for an unknown card (although you've spent at least 5 mana doing it, and you might prefer the 4/4 in play). +0 card advantage. Then, when you recur it, it's again +0 card advantage, as you noted, except that you're trading an unknown card for the bug.
A card like Reach Through Mists, without the arcane, produces +0 card advantage, not +1.
I think the issue is that you have to sacrifice the bug to get the card - so sacrificing it gives +0 card advantage, not +1.
Think of it this way: if you draw the bug, play it, and sacrifice it, you've traded the bug for an unknown card (although you've spent at least 5 mana doing it, and you might prefer the 4/4 in play). +0 card advantage. Then, when you recur it, it's again +0 card advantage, as you noted, except that you're trading an unknown card for the bug.
But why would you sacrifice it at random? It generates card advantage provided you trade the bug for one of your opponent's cards (say a Kodama that you blocked or a Rend Spirit). This is why I said in my intial analysis:
Quote from Corpuscolawesome »
Play Bug (+0 cards)
Sac Bug (+1 cards assuming you sacced in response to lethal damage, removal spell, etc)
Recur Bug (either next draw step or immediately... it doesn't matter when you recur since this there is no card-advantage involved in recurring it) (+0 card advantage).
That way your opponent has lost 1 card and you have lost zero cards. Hence +1 card advantage. This generates card advantage in the same way that all GY-recurring creatures do. The difference is that the CA attached to this guy comes when you sac it, not when you recur it.
Further spelling-out:
You have 4 cards in hand.
Cast Bug (3 cards in hand)
Sacrifice Bug in response to lethal damage/removal spell (4 cards in hand)
Dredge before next upkeep to "fix" your draw so that you get Bug back (5 cards in hand).
Compare that to a vanilla 4/4:
You have 4 cards in hand
Cast Vanilla (3 cards in hand)
Vanilla dies (3 cards in hand)
Draw a card as normal during next upkeep (4 cards in hand)
If the sac cost is 3, the card is good. If the cost is two or one, its a house, and I will buy a play set the day ravnika is released. If it sacs at no cost, then this card hath been touched by thee most high God(like Tolarian Academy and Umezawas Jitte)
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"But then are we most in order when we are most out of order."-Jack Cade
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
Personally I don't think the Draw ability will be that great (meaning it will be highly costed). Being able to worldly tutor for it at will once it's in your graveyard for the measly cost of milling yourself for 1 is next to nothing.
A 4/4 frame for 5 mana is nothing to scream about, but then again that's not the point. He's not being played for speed, he's being played for Endurance. With one of these and the poison imp in the grave, you have a couple of great draw manipulation options. Both of these are great cards. With some equipment they can both become deadly.
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I'm old school, about as OLD school as they get. think 4th Edition/Ice Age old school. Unfortunatley in the "Real world" you cant Incinerate your bank manager and sadly now I have joined the ranks of the older population, and my time is taken up by things like reasearching Mortgage Refinance Rates and where to get the best possible mortgage quotes. I have however discovered the joys of Online Forex Trading which at least allows me to keep the bills in check!
I'm not really that big of a fan of the Imp. 2B at sorcery speed to kill an attacking creature without evasion? Not a great deal. If you keep playing this from your third turn on, your opponent can just keep putting out more threats and only losing 1 each turn. Not to mention the fact that you won't be drawing new cards since Dredge replaces your draw. Plus you will be milling yourself 6 cards per time you recur this... not a terrible thing given other Dredge creatures and the large library size, but not an insignificant aspect of the card.
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Dredge 1(If you would draw a card, you may instead put the top card of your library into your graveyard and put ~This~ from your graveyard into your hand.)
(?), Sacrifice ~This~: Draw a card.4/4
I gotta ask: am I the only one who sees this as a 4/4 Blinky? It will be in the graveyard before you have to choose to use it's replacement effect so essentially you can return it to hand for (?) as a fast effect (ie, after damage is on the stack). 5cc seems a fairly reasonable cost for this (good, actually, if it wasn't two-color -- but that might not be that much of a drawback in RAV). If the (?) is reasonable (0 or 1 ), this could be a house.
I think we should temporarily dub it BlinkBug.
follow me." -- Twelfth Night
SD Tops with the Dark Confidant also, otherwise that guy could get pricey.
And I agree, 3-4 is most likely what the sac cost will be (I was just dreaming). Fleeting image RTH cost is what? 2? Anything less than 3 on this bug could get abusive, guessing the the G/B boys will have some more graveyard tricks. Anything with goin'-to-the-graveyard triggers can be manipulated repeatedly.
follow me." -- Twelfth Night
I can't wait to pull one of those on someone at the prere.
Its the kind of trick that will really be pissing people off at the prerelease.
Twitter
Im quite interested in a BG aggro/control deck with the guild and the 4/4 drudge insect
Leche de cabra, azucar, glucosa, carbonato.
(no contiene colorantes ni saborizantes artificiales).
:spirit2:
Yes, but don't forget the fact that this is a 4/4 threat that recurs itself (drawing you cards in the process), which is a huge asset in the long game. This can go in aggo-control or control since recurring threats are historically rather hard for other decks to stop when you combine them with control/disruption and other routes to victory.
I think the most realistic guess for the cost of its ability is 3. For comparison, Genesis is a 4/4 threat that can recur itself for 2G. However, with Genesis you gain the ability to return other creatures. With this insect you draw a card each time you sac it. From a numbers point of view, Genesis gives you +1 card advantage every time you use its ability. So does this. 3 seems ideal.
I love this card. I love BG. Ravnica is going to be awesome.
Leche de cabra, azucar, glucosa, carbonato.
(no contiene colorantes ni saborizantes artificiales).
:spirit2:
the Luxodon its a 4/4 for 4, it gives 4 life when it comes into play and it can sac for only WG to Wail of the Nim your Army... that last sac effect is realy powerfull and only for 2 multi mana, It is my belief that BlinkBug 8^) will sac for G/B , it makes sence considering that The creatures that sac for card draw in the past have been 2 colorless. IT fits the flavor of Rav and it balences this card (not realy lol). As a card itself, Its a ***** against Control players, to bad Dredge skips a draw . Sorry that was just wishfull thinking.
Anyone care to rip my theroy a new a$$hole? if so your probaly right
Genesis Complete!!! 306/306
(Land centered mechanics Affinity for lands; Synergy with lands (Affinity for activated abilities)
(Extended-ish Power level) PM me if you are interested
Awakening ?/180: Features Domain, with more land comes more mastery over the elements. Channel and Growth are expanded making landcasting more interesting.
Hopefully i will have a swelling of pride sometime soon..........
If you dont get that, look at my username, and if you still dont get it, than your to young to have an account on here without your parents permission, YOU ARE A BAD LITTLE CHILD!!!!
Any way you look at it, this is going to be a control powerhouse. Given that you will usually have at LEAST 15-20 cards in your library at the end of a game, you can recur this upwards of 10 times without any risk of decking yourself (barring other Dredge Creatures or something like Arc Slogger). And with no mana cost to return it, it takes just 5 mana a turn to play this guy every turn. Now this is already a fairly good deal. But add in the ability to draw a card every time he dies (or to immediately redraw/recast ~) and you've got a filthy creature.
yes there is. the card you draw plus the insect: 2 cards in one turn
Leche de cabra, azucar, glucosa, carbonato.
(no contiene colorantes ni saborizantes artificiales).
:spirit2:
The best thing about him is that he's very hard to get rid of permanently, as soon as the board is clear of anything he can't handle, you can bet he'll be back in play next turn. Eventually your opponent will run out of ways to deal with him, especially if you're blowing up their land.
4/4 means he can stand up to a pretty solid creature, and shrug off most burn. Plus he put's your opponent on a 5 turn clock. With 4 of these in your deck you can afford to run heaps of land destruction and rely on him to be the win condition.
The math is a bit tricky, so I will clarify:
Play Bug (+0 cards)
Sac Bug (+1 cards assuming you sacced in response to lethal damage, removal spell, etc)
Recur Bug (either next draw step or immediately... it doesn't matter when you recur since this there is no card-advantage involved in recurring it) (+0 card advantage).
OR:
Play Bug (+0 cards)
Sac Bug, Dredge to redraw immediately (+1 cards)
The recursion is more like draw-fixing... it is the Sac ability that generates card advantage (which is why I say that 3 mana will make it the same cost-wise as Genesis).
maybe in limited we can play a more then 40 card deck if we drafted dredge creatures. We´ll get them anyway and that way we can assure not to get decked by the flying imp, its a common you know.
Leche de cabra, azucar, glucosa, carbonato.
(no contiene colorantes ni saborizantes artificiales).
:spirit2:
Think of it this way: if you draw the bug, play it, and sacrifice it, you've traded the bug for an unknown card (although you've spent at least 5 mana doing it, and you might prefer the 4/4 in play). +0 card advantage. Then, when you recur it, it's again +0 card advantage, as you noted, except that you're trading an unknown card for the bug.
A card like Reach Through Mists, without the arcane, produces +0 card advantage, not +1.
But why would you sacrifice it at random? It generates card advantage provided you trade the bug for one of your opponent's cards (say a Kodama that you blocked or a Rend Spirit). This is why I said in my intial analysis:
That way your opponent has lost 1 card and you have lost zero cards. Hence +1 card advantage. This generates card advantage in the same way that all GY-recurring creatures do. The difference is that the CA attached to this guy comes when you sac it, not when you recur it.
Further spelling-out:
You have 4 cards in hand.
Cast Bug (3 cards in hand)
Sacrifice Bug in response to lethal damage/removal spell (4 cards in hand)
Dredge before next upkeep to "fix" your draw so that you get Bug back (5 cards in hand).
Compare that to a vanilla 4/4:
You have 4 cards in hand
Cast Vanilla (3 cards in hand)
Vanilla dies (3 cards in hand)
Draw a card as normal during next upkeep (4 cards in hand)
There is a +1 difference in cards.
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
A 4/4 frame for 5 mana is nothing to scream about, but then again that's not the point. He's not being played for speed, he's being played for Endurance. With one of these and the poison imp in the grave, you have a couple of great draw manipulation options. Both of these are great cards. With some equipment they can both become deadly.