Also, one of the alt-arts shows characters compleated even if they aren't compleated in the story.... That's just plain confusing. I was wondering why alt-art Jor Kadeen looked more like a sword-spider than a human rebel.
They said the alt-arts are all compleated as a "what if?", even the characters that aren't going to be compleated in the story.
Honesty I think its neat, its meant as a homage to the Mirrodin Pure/New Phyrexia thing they had and while Phyrexia isn't my favorite, I do like how hard someone of the designs go so I get to see how characters look and they don't have to be compleated to do so.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I don't like the new Praetor cycle. I think they are alright as single cards but as a cycle they have some flaws. The distribution of evergreen keywords blue having none and green having 2 for example. The manacost which was kind of flawed in the old Praetor cycle, too. The new cycle could have been perfect with Sheoldred as 4 cost, Urabrask as 5 cost, Elesh as 6 cost, Jin-Gitaxias as 7 cost and Vorinclex as 8 cost creature. 8 mana for Vorinclex is still fine for the card as it is, specially in green or Elesh being a different card at 3 or 8 mana cost. The other thing that annoy me is Sheoldred having deathtouch and 5 toughness. In my opinion Elesh should always win the fight or at least the fight should be undecided with both living or dying the confrontation. For this reason I would have loved to see indestructible on Elesh instead of vigilance or Sheoldred having 4 toughness. Blue is supposed to get more vigilance creatures, too. I think that would have been an okay keyword for him.
About the Planeswalker. I think that the mono colored planeswalker are the one which will not be compleated. The keyword "Compleated" was used for 2 phyrexian colors for the moment. I am not sure if they will change that. They already said that Koth won't be compleated. So Jace U, Wanderer W, Nissa G, Koth R and Vraska B will be the non-compleated planeswalker. Vraska already has a mono-black card while Kaya had always been Orzhov. And she was given more love in the past sets making her compleation more important. That leaves us with the other 5 planeswalker which make things a little complicated... We have Nahiri and Lukka both Boros in the past and both more Red than white (st least for what we saw storywise while Nahiri would be more white than red normally). Nissa, Tyvar and Vraska were shown as Golgari. Nissa and Tyvar more green while Vraska more black aligned. So we have a lot of overlapping colors. In addition we already have Ajani as Green/White, Tamiyo as Green/blue compleated walker and most likely Tibalt as black/red. Kaito UB, Lukka RG?, Nahiri RW, Kaya WB, Tyvar BG
We are missing those already compleated planeswalker, Kasmina, Elspeth, Vivien, Ashiok, Tezzeret and obviously Karn. I think those were the planeswalker involved in the story...
About Koth... I don't know... He is in the right color for Lord Windgrace land shenanigans. Which could run all the counter doubling stuff in green for Planeswalker... making his ultimate ready in the same turn you cast him.
I think these make a lot of sense actually. Elesh Norn was never supposed to be a brute in combat or anything. She relies on the zealotry and strength of her followers to win. In a one-on-one battle I'd bet on Sheoldred, but Elesh Norn doesn't seem like she would get into that situation. Vorinclex having more keywords also makes sense, he's green—the creature color. Jin-Gitaxias fought with his intellect, again, not really a combat-oriented being. Sheoldred's deathtouch I think makes sense as that she's the black praetor, and she's been depicted both as spider-like and millipede-like—both venomous creatures.
Right, thank you. She still seems sort of weak when she's supposed to be the most powerful one.
Keep in mind that Power is not synonymous with Strength. I mean, many of the most powerful people in the world are frail old men/women. Elesh Norn leads what has become the most powerful faction of New Phyrexia (and through them, New Phyrexia as a whole), but that doesn't necessarily mean that she's the strongest Praetor.
I think he just meant that they should've just give Norn a more generic -and so, more powerful ability- and he wasn't referring to the P/T stats. Elesh should've had either a low and aggressive mana value with an ability always affecting the game all time (like the new Sheoldred) or a massive mana cost with an epic ability that also will matter all the time (like the 10 mana Gitaxias). What we see is just a niche, mediocre effect that needs a specific deckbuilding to make it matter and that will just occasionally hose some decks. So Elesh is weak even if we consider your parameters.
In which word stopping any sort of ETB ability is weak?
if you compare this ability to Sheoldred or Gitaxias she is weak. They function all the time regardless of what you or your opponent play. The new Elesh? Not so much. So definitely she is not the strongest praetor and her ability doesn't give her proper justice to her status in the magic lore.
I wonder if he was intentionally made a bit weaker since its not mythic rare. It would've been more interesting if it ticked up to make your basic mountains tap for extra mana, or to untap all your basic mountains. Is that now out of red's color pie?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
Right, thank you. She still seems sort of weak when she's supposed to be the most powerful one.
Keep in mind that Power is not synonymous with Strength. I mean, many of the most powerful people in the world are frail old men/women. Elesh Norn leads what has become the most powerful faction of New Phyrexia (and through them, New Phyrexia as a whole), but that doesn't necessarily mean that she's the strongest Praetor.
I think he just meant that they should've just give Norn a more generic -and so, more powerful ability- and he wasn't referring to the P/T stats. Elesh should've had either a low and aggressive mana value with an ability always affecting the game all time (like the new Sheoldred) or a massive mana cost with an epic ability that also will matter all the time (like the 10 mana Gitaxias). What we see is just a niche, mediocre effect that needs a specific deckbuilding to make it matter and that will just occasionally hose some decks. So Elesh is weak even if we consider your parameters.
In which word stopping any sort of ETB ability is weak?
if you compare this ability to Sheoldred or Gitaxias she is weak. They function all the time regardless of what you or your opponent play. The new Elesh? Not so much. So definitely she is not the strongest praetor and her ability doesn't give her proper justice to her status in the magic lore.
Jin Gitaxias is so easy to play around is not even funny
I mean, it's 4 mana for 4-ish damage at sorcery speed to a creature... which is pure garbage.
then he survives with 1 loyalty, which makes is superior to Liliana of the Dark Realms as a removal spell...
then, that +2 is utter garbage.... drawing basic lands? seriously? well.... it's the worst kind of card advantage, but still card advantage, I guess....
I remember I tried using Liliana of the Dark Realms alongside Raven's Crime and even there, that +1 (which was able to tutor up non basic swamps, mind you) was still garbage.
next turn, Koth could kill himself to kill something else... and that would pretty much be a bad impression of Vraska the Unseen who's not really a good walkers as well....
Koth's emblem is pretty strong as an overcharged Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle but keeping a walker that doesn't really protect itself while "plus-ing" alive for 3 turns just won't be easy at all.
at the end of the day, this walker has waaaaaaay too many hoops to jump to even not be that gamebreaking
I wouldn't go that far to say he's one of the weakest walkers ever, but it's bad.
Not sure you could say Koth is even the weakest walker in Standard when it will be printed two sets after Karn, Living Legacy.
I think he just meant that they should've just give Norn a more generic -and so, more powerful ability- and he wasn't referring to the P/T stats. Elesh should've had either a low and aggressive mana value with an ability always affecting the game all time (like the new Sheoldred) or a massive mana cost with an epic ability that also will matter all the time (like the 10 mana Gitaxias). What we see is just a niche, mediocre effect that needs a specific deckbuilding to make it matter and that will just occasionally hose some decks. So Elesh is weak even if we consider your parameters.
In which word stopping any sort of ETB ability is weak?
if you compare this ability to Sheoldred or Gitaxias she is weak. They function all the time regardless of what you or your opponent play. The new Elesh? Not so much. So definitely she is not the strongest praetor and her ability doesn't give her proper justice to her status in the magic lore.
Jin Gitaxias is so easy to play around is not even funny
I'm not sure if I am not getting your comment or you not getting which Gitaxias I'm talking about.
Of course i'm talking about the kamigawa one, we are comparing preators within their Cycle why would I compare it with OG Jin Gitaxias
Do we have artworks of the "compleated visions" of the planeswalkers and legends somewhere? People are talking about them, but I hate navigating twitter for content and can't find it. There's only this one rapidly alternating gif, where you can't make anything out.
Do we have artworks of the "compleated visions" of the planeswalkers and legends somewhere? People are talking about them, but I hate navigating twitter for content and can't find it. There's only this one rapidly alternating gif, where you can't make anything out.
In which word stopping any sort of ETB ability is weak?
if you compare this ability to Sheoldred or Gitaxias she is weak. They function all the time regardless of what you or your opponent play. The new Elesh? Not so much. So definitely she is not the strongest praetor and her ability doesn't give her proper justice to her status in the magic lore.
Jin Gitaxias is so easy to play around is not even funny
I'm not sure if I am not getting your comment or you not getting which Gitaxias I'm talking about.
Of course i'm talking about the kamigawa one, we are comparing preators within their Cycle why would I compare it with OG Jin Gitaxias
Because you are quoting my posts and in my posts I was generally talking about any Praetor of any version (specifically I compared Elesh with the 10 mana Gitaxias). The fact the new Norn still got a nicher ability of most Praetors still stands as true.
I think Jace will be compleated and Vraska won't. Since they have history, that'll be particularly emotional and tragic. However, I think if Jace does get compleated, he'll lock part of his mind away so he's not completely turned and with some help he'll eventually make some kind of comeback.
I think either Kaito or Wanderer will be compleated, but not both. Same reasoning here, their history will make it hit hard for the survivor. Personally I'd want Kaito to be compleated because his alt art looks terrifying.
I think Koth will get compleated as the final nail in the coffin for the Mirran resistance, showing that they've finally completely lost.
I DON'T think Nahiri will be compleated because it would be interesting to have her and Sorin end up reluctantly working together to help defeat the Phyrexians in March of the Machine.
I don't know about the rest, and don't really care either way for most of them, although Kaya seems unlikely since I could see it being difficult to capture someone who can ghostform away, but idk.
The ten planeswalkers will be in two mono-colored cycles. It's a lot easy to figure that out than if the compleated ones are two-color.
Survivors: U- Jace. G- Nissa. R- Koth. W- The Wanderer. B- Kaya or Vraska.
Compleated: U- Kaito. G- Tyvar. R- Lukka. W- Nahiri. B- Kaya or Vraska.
Also, one of the alt-arts shows characters compleated even if they aren't compleated in the story.... That's just plain confusing. I was wondering why alt-art Jor Kadeen looked more like a sword-spider than a human rebel.
The planeswalkers with compleated so far have made use of Phyrexian hybrid mana - which suggests to me that we should expect a multicolor cycle for compleated planewalkers. Further they are more willing to rint additional planeswalkers in (gold) multicolor. That's why in the past surprising additional 'walker cards were three-colored.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Guys Koth will not be compleated... We already know his planeswalker card (see first post). At least not in Phyrexia: All Will Be One.
We already have 2 compleated planeswalker: Ajani as Selesnya and Tamiyo as Simic walker.
And most likely Tibalt as Rakdos. He was "seeded" in Kaldheim.
I believe we will get 1 Planeswalker for each 2-color combination with compleated.
Kaito as Dimir
Nahiri as Boros
Tyvar as Golgari (could be Nissa or Vraska)
Kaya as Orzhov (If they want to keep it color balances and not having 2 compleated golgari walkers in the set she has to be one of the compleated walkers)
well Lukka as Gruul? He valued the beast side in Ikoria...
I can't see them risking to do anything crucial to Jace and Nissa to be honest. Koth we know is save and The wanderer is 100% mono colored and doesn't fit the whole compleation mechanic. This four are easily monocolored planeswalker. Leaving only the black slot open which Vraska or Kaya could fit. But if Vraska would be compleated and Kaya is saved than we would end with two golgari planeswalker Vraska and Tyvar {or two mono green planeswalker with Tyvar an Nissa) which is unlikely.
If my assumptions are correct than only Azorius and Izzet are missing.
For Izzet we could have Saheeli or Ral. Saheeli is already involved in the story.
For Azorius we could have Teferi, Niko or Narset. Teferi is involved but has a strong plot-armor. The other two are possibilities but aren't evolved yet.
Guys Koth will not be compleated... We already know his planeswalker card (see first post). At least not in Phyrexia: All Will Be One.
We already have 2 compleated planeswalker: Ajani as Selesnya and Tamiyo as Simic walker.
And most likely Tibalt as Rakdos. He was "seeded" in Kaldheim.
I believe we will get 1 Planeswalker for each 2-color combination with compleated.
Kaito as Dimir
Nahiri as Boros
Tyvar as Golgari (could be Nissa or Vraska)
Kaya as Orzhov (If they want to keep it color balances and not having 2 compleated golgari walkers in the set she has to be one of the compleated walkers)
well Lukka as Gruul? He valued the beast side in Ikoria...
I can't see them risking to do anything crucial to Jace and Nissa to be honest. Koth we know is save and The wanderer is 100% mono colored and doesn't fit the whole compleation mechanic. This four are easily monocolored planeswalker. Leaving only the black slot open which Vraska or Kaya could fit. But if Vraska would be compleated and Kaya is saved than we would end with two golgari planeswalker Vraska and Tyvar {or two mono green planeswalker with Tyvar an Nissa) which is unlikely.
If my assumptions are correct than only Azorius and Izzet are missing.
For Izzet we could have Saheeli or Ral. Saheeli is already involved in the story.
For Azorius we could have Teferi, Niko or Narset. Teferi is involved but has a strong plot-armor. The other two are possibilities but aren't evolved yet.
Honesty I think its neat, its meant as a homage to the Mirrodin Pure/New Phyrexia thing they had and while Phyrexia isn't my favorite, I do like how hard someone of the designs go so I get to see how characters look and they don't have to be compleated to do so.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I don't like the new Praetor cycle. I think they are alright as single cards but as a cycle they have some flaws. The distribution of evergreen keywords blue having none and green having 2 for example. The manacost which was kind of flawed in the old Praetor cycle, too. The new cycle could have been perfect with Sheoldred as 4 cost, Urabrask as 5 cost, Elesh as 6 cost, Jin-Gitaxias as 7 cost and Vorinclex as 8 cost creature. 8 mana for Vorinclex is still fine for the card as it is, specially in green or Elesh being a different card at 3 or 8 mana cost. The other thing that annoy me is Sheoldred having deathtouch and 5 toughness. In my opinion Elesh should always win the fight or at least the fight should be undecided with both living or dying the confrontation. For this reason I would have loved to see indestructible on Elesh instead of vigilance or Sheoldred having 4 toughness. Blue is supposed to get more vigilance creatures, too. I think that would have been an okay keyword for him.
About the Planeswalker. I think that the mono colored planeswalker are the one which will not be compleated. The keyword "Compleated" was used for 2 phyrexian colors for the moment. I am not sure if they will change that. They already said that Koth won't be compleated. So Jace U, Wanderer W, Nissa G, Koth R and Vraska B will be the non-compleated planeswalker. Vraska already has a mono-black card while Kaya had always been Orzhov. And she was given more love in the past sets making her compleation more important. That leaves us with the other 5 planeswalker which make things a little complicated... We have Nahiri and Lukka both Boros in the past and both more Red than white (st least for what we saw storywise while Nahiri would be more white than red normally). Nissa, Tyvar and Vraska were shown as Golgari. Nissa and Tyvar more green while Vraska more black aligned. So we have a lot of overlapping colors. In addition we already have Ajani as Green/White, Tamiyo as Green/blue compleated walker and most likely Tibalt as black/red. Kaito UB, Lukka RG?, Nahiri RW, Kaya WB, Tyvar BG
We are missing those already compleated planeswalker, Kasmina, Elspeth, Vivien, Ashiok, Tezzeret and obviously Karn. I think those were the planeswalker involved in the story...
About Koth... I don't know... He is in the right color for Lord Windgrace land shenanigans. Which could run all the counter doubling stuff in green for Planeswalker... making his ultimate ready in the same turn you cast him.
if you compare this ability to Sheoldred or Gitaxias she is weak. They function all the time regardless of what you or your opponent play. The new Elesh? Not so much. So definitely she is not the strongest praetor and her ability doesn't give her proper justice to her status in the magic lore.
I wonder if he was intentionally made a bit weaker since its not mythic rare. It would've been more interesting if it ticked up to make your basic mountains tap for extra mana, or to untap all your basic mountains. Is that now out of red's color pie?
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
Guess it's time to go back to good old Path to Exile, Terminate, Assassin's Trophy, Tear Asunder, Vindicate, etc.?
Jin is actually pretty weak, I'd have him just above urabrask, who is always the worst for some unknown reason.
Jin Gitaxias is so easy to play around is not even funny
By actual meta impact, the previous 4 are
Sheoldred
Big gap
Vorinclex
Big gap
Jin Gitaxias
Urabrask
I'd guess Elesh Norn takes the number 2 spot just a little above Vorinclex.
Of course i'm talking about the kamigawa one, we are comparing preators within their Cycle why would I compare it with OG Jin Gitaxias
Here’s a Reddit one
https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGRumors/comments/zlbwn4/i_think_its_important_to_show_this_all_ten_pw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Because you are quoting my posts and in my posts I was generally talking about any Praetor of any version (specifically I compared Elesh with the 10 mana Gitaxias). The fact the new Norn still got a nicher ability of most Praetors still stands as true.
Solitude and Fury at least get the consolation prize that they will stick around even if evoked
I think Jace will be compleated and Vraska won't. Since they have history, that'll be particularly emotional and tragic. However, I think if Jace does get compleated, he'll lock part of his mind away so he's not completely turned and with some help he'll eventually make some kind of comeback.
I think either Kaito or Wanderer will be compleated, but not both. Same reasoning here, their history will make it hit hard for the survivor. Personally I'd want Kaito to be compleated because his alt art looks terrifying.
I think Koth will get compleated as the final nail in the coffin for the Mirran resistance, showing that they've finally completely lost.
I DON'T think Nahiri will be compleated because it would be interesting to have her and Sorin end up reluctantly working together to help defeat the Phyrexians in March of the Machine.
I don't know about the rest, and don't really care either way for most of them, although Kaya seems unlikely since I could see it being difficult to capture someone who can ghostform away, but idk.
The planeswalkers with compleated so far have made use of Phyrexian hybrid mana - which suggests to me that we should expect a multicolor cycle for compleated planewalkers. Further they are more willing to rint additional planeswalkers in (gold) multicolor. That's why in the past surprising additional 'walker cards were three-colored.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
We already have 2 compleated planeswalker: Ajani as Selesnya and Tamiyo as Simic walker.
And most likely Tibalt as Rakdos. He was "seeded" in Kaldheim.
I believe we will get 1 Planeswalker for each 2-color combination with compleated.
Kaito as Dimir
Nahiri as Boros
Tyvar as Golgari (could be Nissa or Vraska)
Kaya as Orzhov (If they want to keep it color balances and not having 2 compleated golgari walkers in the set she has to be one of the compleated walkers)
well Lukka as Gruul? He valued the beast side in Ikoria...
I can't see them risking to do anything crucial to Jace and Nissa to be honest. Koth we know is save and The wanderer is 100% mono colored and doesn't fit the whole compleation mechanic. This four are easily monocolored planeswalker. Leaving only the black slot open which Vraska or Kaya could fit. But if Vraska would be compleated and Kaya is saved than we would end with two golgari planeswalker Vraska and Tyvar {or two mono green planeswalker with Tyvar an Nissa) which is unlikely.
If my assumptions are correct than only Azorius and Izzet are missing.
For Izzet we could have Saheeli or Ral. Saheeli is already involved in the story.
For Azorius we could have Teferi, Niko or Narset. Teferi is involved but has a strong plot-armor. The other two are possibilities but aren't evolved yet.
Your way off
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/828421-one-completed-walkers-leaked