Whenever a nontoken creature you control dies Draw a card, this ability triggers only once each turn
whenever a nontoken creature an opponent controls dies or an opponent discards a creature card. Put that card from a Graveyard onto the battlefield under your control. This ability only triggers once each turn.
so sheoldred 2.0 opponent hurt part is a weaker Tergrid, God of Fright but sheoldred gets the creatures easier than her since it’s outside sacrifce
oh They made a brutal mistake…you can force Phage the Untouchable on the owner they forgot “May” to the ability
so we got another leak if I were to wager how this happened same way Vorinclex got leaked but with double masters packs
The templating might be wrong to be real because “one or more” is missing
because damnation (wrath) or Dark Deal (wheel) effects would trigger her multiple time since all the deaths/discards happen simutaniously thus breaking “only once each turn”
EDIT: foam_dome clarified that it actually does work since how it usually works is you choose which creature is used with the effect and all the others don't resolve (if I worded this right)
But you still need to nail the sheoldred art by reverse image search and it’s already not findable
Did it really need both "non-token" AND "once per turn" on the draw effect?
Other than that, it's another of the long line of creatures that get played, the table sighs, someone kills it, and the game moves on. Kill on sight before it wrecks the table. At least in normal EDH. It is unplayable in cEDH but then again 99.999999% of all cards are.
Did it really need both "non-token" AND "once per turn" on the draw effect?
Other than that, it's another of the long line of creatures that get played, the table sighs, someone kills it, and the game moves on. Kill on sight before it wrecks the table. At least in normal EDH. It is unplayable in cEDH but then again 99.999999% of all cards are.
Well it has Ward Discard 2 cards, so if they try to use target removal on it, they get to pay the Ward, and then you can still rescue her with counterspells or something else.
So as long as you keep them on less than 3 cards , they cant even pay the ward cost to remove her, so shes pretty good with a lot of discard.
----
Certainly like this card, as its not as crazy busted swingy as Tergrid, God of Fright tends to be with "wheel" effects, but the value is clearly in your favor, so they really want to remove her asap, but that comes at a cost.
Certainly like this card, as its not as crazy busted swingy as Tergrid, God of Fright tends to be with "wheel" effects, but the value is clearly in your favor, so they really want to remove her asap, but that comes at a cost.
Tergrid has no protections at all, so you can play her several times a game and get no benefit as someone nukes her for orbit whenever she hits the table. Ward discard 2 card is huge protection, and it also triggers her last ability if all they have to discard is something big. I actually think she this Sheoldred is substantially better if your goal is to win, where as Tergrid is more win more show offy. Both fit in each others lists nicely though.
There's nothing obviously fake about this. The templating makes sense even if it's not exactly as it appears on other cards - it may have been a deliberate templating change to make the second ability work the way they wanted. Without "one or more", I believe "only once" would override simultaneous triggering events, but don't know of a good example.
Doesn't feel as symmetric as the other praetors have.
Love how the ward cost interacts with the final ability. Your opponent has to pitch 2 cards (hope neither of those is a creature for their sake) and have a kill spell to kill this outside of combat.
The templating might be wrong to be real because “one or more” is missing
because damnation (wrath) or Dark Deal (wheel) effects would trigger her multiple time since all the deaths/discards happen simutaniously thus breaking “only once each turn”
Not really. My understanding is that if something would cause the ability to trigger multiple times simultaneously, you get to choose the order in which they trigger, and then only the first one gets put onto the stack.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
So I think how sheoldred works is she triggers for the first one put in for whatever order you do.
As far as I can tell, it's not clearly handled in the rules yet, but they could easily clarify in the usual updates to the Comp. Rules when a new set releases.
I expect you do end up just getting to choose which one. Here's some current rules that kinda relate:
404.3. If an effect or rule puts two or more cards into the same graveyard at the same time, the owner of
those cards may arrange them in any order.
405.3. If an effect puts two or more objects on the stack at the same time, those controlled by the active
player are put on lowest, followed by each other player’s objects in APNAP order (see rule 101.4).
If a player controls more than one of these objects, that player chooses their relative order on the
stack.
603.3b If multiple abilities have triggered since the last time a player received priority, the abilities
are placed on the stack in a two-part process. First, each player, in APNAP order, puts each
triggered ability they control with a trigger condition that isn’t another ability triggering on the
stack in any order they choose. (See rule 101.4.) Second, each player, in APNAP order, puts all
remaining triggered abilities they control on the stack in any order they choose. Then the game
once again checks for and performs state-based actions until none are performed, then abilities
that triggered during this process go on the stack. This process repeats until no new state-based
actions are performed and no abilities trigger. Then the appropriate player gets priority.
The templating might be wrong to be real because “one or more” is missing
because damnation (wrath) or Dark Deal (wheel) effects would trigger her multiple time since all the deaths/discards happen simutaniously thus breaking “only once each turn”
Not really. My understanding is that if something would cause the ability to trigger multiple times simultaneously, you get to choose the order in which they trigger, and then only the first one gets put onto the stack.
They have consistently used a different wording for these kinds of effects. It's entirely possible they changed the template for Dominaria United, but the current wording is not in line with precedence.
Note, that while the rules can handle certain situations they do use slightly longer wording to remove ambiguity in player understanding, even when there is no ambiguity in the rules.
Also an important distinction with these trigger-limited abilities e. g. might be the timing. Do you choose which of multiple creatures simultaneously dying creatures triggers the ability as the creature dies ("when the multiple triggering occurrences happen during one event") or the next time priority is checked ("when the abilities try to go on the stack")? With the "one or more" wording no such ambiguity exists since simultaneous events create only one triggered ability and only that one goes on the stack.
The rules may have an answer to my question, but I doubt more than one in ten people even consider that there is a time delay. Many will not have an answer to the question of "when to choose" if made aware of the delay once a more complex spell destroys multiple creatures and then continues to do things before the ability goes on the stack.
"The rules handle this, so it can be done" is only part of the truth "players (maybe?) can't handle this, so it can't be done" is a counter here - and it's why the ability's wording is suspect.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
I know it's to balance the card so it doesn't get out of hand, but every time I read "triggers only once per turn" on a card I can't help but immediately disregard it.
Note, that while the rules can handle certain situations they do use slightly longer wording to remove ambiguity in player understanding, even when there is no ambiguity in the rules.
Also an important distinction with these trigger-limited abilities e. g. might be the timing. Do you choose which of multiple creatures simultaneously dying creatures triggers the ability as the creature dies ("when the multiple triggering occurrences happen during one event") or the next time priority is checked ("when the abilities try to go on the stack")? With the "one or more" wording no such ambiguity exists since simultaneous events create only one triggered ability and only that one goes on the stack.
The rules may have an answer to my question, but I doubt more than one in ten people even consider that there is a time delay. Many will not have an answer to the question of "when to choose" if made aware of the delay once a more complex spell destroys multiple creatures and then continues to do things before the ability goes on the stack.
I think players would be able to handle it fine precisely because they don't think about the delay between the triggering event occurring and the triggers going on the stack. Players who know the rules well are probably more confused than those who don't.
It occurs to me now, however, that just using the "do this only once each turn" language would be clearer and not require a rules change.
Hoping that it's real as printed myself. I don't see many cards these days that are slam-dunk includes for my Horobi, Death's Wail deck, but this certainly fits the bill. Benefits for my creatures dying AND for my opponent's dying, AND she's difficult to target herself? Sign me up.
Hoping that it's real as printed myself. I don't see many cards these days that are slam-dunk includes for my Horobi, Death's Wail deck, but this certainly fits the bill. Benefits for my creatures dying AND for my opponent's dying, AND she's difficult to target herself? Sign me up.
Just watch out that Horobi is a nonbo with Ward. They target Sheoldred with anything, decline to pay the Ward cost, and your Horobi trigger kills it anyway.
This seems like it might be a standard-defining card, if only because it’s so hard to deal with.
If your opponent tries to kill it, they have to discard two noncreature cards to avoid giving you a free creature and you still draw a card if the answer your opponents have destroy Sheoldred (a 4-for-1, essentially).
If your opponent throws down a wrath, the odds are that you are going to steal a creature and draw a card and still come out ahead unless your opponent was specifically using farewell
When you consider that this thing can actively make kill spells, discard, and sacrifice effects more efficient as well (and that a second copy of this card can be cast as an expensive divination effect), that seems to be a fairly resilient threat.
I know it's to balance the card so it doesn't get out of hand, but every time I read "triggers only once per turn" on a card I can't help but immediately disregard it.
well if real there’s one thing your kind of failing to realize
it Has “discard” involved in it and the ward is discard two cards so if they discard a creature you get it before thr death she could get a price spike like Vorinclex did. (For standard)
I know it's to balance the card so it doesn't get out of hand, but every time I read "triggers only once per turn" on a card I can't help but immediately disregard it.
To me it reads like Yugioh, almost every effect in that game is "once per turn."
I know it's to balance the card so it doesn't get out of hand, but every time I read "triggers only once per turn" on a card I can't help but immediately disregard it.
well if real there’s one thing your kind of failing to realize
it Has “discard” involved in it and the ward is discard two cards so if they discard a creature you get it before thr death she could get a price spike like Vorinclex did. (For standard)
Nice it's got more options like that, but I still don't like the once per turn thing, but again, I understand why they use it to balance cards. But like somebody said, it can very likely be a standard defining card if it's real.
oh They made a brutal mistake…you can force Phage the Untouchable on the owner they forgot “May” to the ability
It hardly counts as a "brutal mistake" if it's only going to happen once in every 10 million games
I rather think it is an awesome. Who knows - maybe a desperate Jeska realizes the only way to destroy the phyrexians is to resume her mantle as Phage and our inorganic planeswalker (karn) and our organic destroying planeswalker (phage) make the perfect duo to send the phyrexians packing. Also, I like that some of the more abusive and unfun strategies have a few silver bullets - if I kept on facing this guy, I would put her in my 99 just to laugh maniacly.
(I had an accidental moment like this where the boomtown bullies player gave another player a leveler - I played disorder in the court and let the boomtown player join the fun of a 0 card library. But I intentionally put Nexus of fate as an answer to mill strategies - I will often put homeward path because of theft decks)
Hoping that it's real as printed myself. I don't see many cards these days that are slam-dunk includes for my Horobi, Death's Wail deck, but this certainly fits the bill. Benefits for my creatures dying AND for my opponent's dying, AND she's difficult to target herself? Sign me up.
Just watch out that Horobi is a nonbo with Ward. They target Sheoldred with anything, decline to pay the Ward cost, and your Horobi trigger kills it anyway.
Ope, you're right. For some reason I was thinking that Ward prevented something from being target unless the cost was paid, rather than countering the spell/ability post-target. Lame.
I know it's to balance the card so it doesn't get out of hand, but every time I read "triggers only once per turn" on a card I can't help but immediately disregard it.
To me it reads like Yugioh, almost every effect in that game is "once per turn."
At least it's more obvious now. I've seen too many people mess up "the first time each turn" triggers over the years to pretend this is new.
to reduce squinting
so sheoldred 2.0 opponent hurt part is a weaker Tergrid, God of Fright but sheoldred gets the creatures easier than her since it’s outside sacrifce
oh They made a brutal mistake…you can force Phage the Untouchable on the owner they forgot “May” to the ability
so we got another leak if I were to wager how this happened same way Vorinclex got leaked but with double masters packs
The templating might be wrong to be real because “one or more” is missing
because damnation (wrath) or Dark Deal (wheel) effects would trigger her multiple time since all the deaths/discards happen simutaniously thus breaking “only once each turn”
EDIT: foam_dome clarified that it actually does work since how it usually works is you choose which creature is used with the effect and all the others don't resolve (if I worded this right)
But you still need to nail the sheoldred art by reverse image search and it’s already not findable
Other than that, it's another of the long line of creatures that get played, the table sighs, someone kills it, and the game moves on. Kill on sight before it wrecks the table. At least in normal EDH. It is unplayable in cEDH but then again 99.999999% of all cards are.
Well it has Ward Discard 2 cards, so if they try to use target removal on it, they get to pay the Ward, and then you can still rescue her with counterspells or something else.
So as long as you keep them on less than 3 cards , they cant even pay the ward cost to remove her, so shes pretty good with a lot of discard.
----
Certainly like this card, as its not as crazy busted swingy as Tergrid, God of Fright tends to be with "wheel" effects, but the value is clearly in your favor, so they really want to remove her asap, but that comes at a cost.
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Tergrid has no protections at all, so you can play her several times a game and get no benefit as someone nukes her for orbit whenever she hits the table. Ward discard 2 card is huge protection, and it also triggers her last ability if all they have to discard is something big. I actually think she this Sheoldred is substantially better if your goal is to win, where as Tergrid is more win more show offy. Both fit in each others lists nicely though.
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Doesn't feel as symmetric as the other praetors have.
It hardly counts as a "brutal mistake" if it's only going to happen once in every 10 million games
Not really. My understanding is that if something would cause the ability to trigger multiple times simultaneously, you get to choose the order in which they trigger, and then only the first one gets put onto the stack.
not Sure which rule I't was but I believe you chose the order cards are put into the graveyard when are going there simultaneously
And part of the reason is because these
https://scryfall.com/search?q=oracletag:graveyard-order-matters&order=edhrec
So I think how sheoldred works is she triggers for the first one put in for whatever order you do.
As far as I can tell, it's not clearly handled in the rules yet, but they could easily clarify in the usual updates to the Comp. Rules when a new set releases.
I expect you do end up just getting to choose which one. Here's some current rules that kinda relate:
404.3. If an effect or rule puts two or more cards into the same graveyard at the same time, the owner of
those cards may arrange them in any order.
405.3. If an effect puts two or more objects on the stack at the same time, those controlled by the active
player are put on lowest, followed by each other player’s objects in APNAP order (see rule 101.4).
If a player controls more than one of these objects, that player chooses their relative order on the
stack.
603.3b If multiple abilities have triggered since the last time a player received priority, the abilities
are placed on the stack in a two-part process. First, each player, in APNAP order, puts each
triggered ability they control with a trigger condition that isn’t another ability triggering on the
stack in any order they choose. (See rule 101.4.) Second, each player, in APNAP order, puts all
remaining triggered abilities they control on the stack in any order they choose. Then the game
once again checks for and performs state-based actions until none are performed, then abilities
that triggered during this process go on the stack. This process repeats until no new state-based
actions are performed and no abilities trigger. Then the appropriate player gets priority.
They have consistently used a different wording for these kinds of effects. It's entirely possible they changed the template for Dominaria United, but the current wording is not in line with precedence.
Note, that while the rules can handle certain situations they do use slightly longer wording to remove ambiguity in player understanding, even when there is no ambiguity in the rules.
Also an important distinction with these trigger-limited abilities e. g. might be the timing. Do you choose which of multiple creatures simultaneously dying creatures triggers the ability as the creature dies ("when the multiple triggering occurrences happen during one event") or the next time priority is checked ("when the abilities try to go on the stack")? With the "one or more" wording no such ambiguity exists since simultaneous events create only one triggered ability and only that one goes on the stack.
The rules may have an answer to my question, but I doubt more than one in ten people even consider that there is a time delay. Many will not have an answer to the question of "when to choose" if made aware of the delay once a more complex spell destroys multiple creatures and then continues to do things before the ability goes on the stack.
"The rules handle this, so it can be done" is only part of the truth "players (maybe?) can't handle this, so it can't be done" is a counter here - and it's why the ability's wording is suspect.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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I think players would be able to handle it fine precisely because they don't think about the delay between the triggering event occurring and the triggers going on the stack. Players who know the rules well are probably more confused than those who don't.
It occurs to me now, however, that just using the "do this only once each turn" language would be clearer and not require a rules change.
Just watch out that Horobi is a nonbo with Ward. They target Sheoldred with anything, decline to pay the Ward cost, and your Horobi trigger kills it anyway.
If your opponent tries to kill it, they have to discard two noncreature cards to avoid giving you a free creature and you still draw a card if the answer your opponents have destroy Sheoldred (a 4-for-1, essentially).
If your opponent throws down a wrath, the odds are that you are going to steal a creature and draw a card and still come out ahead unless your opponent was specifically using farewell
When you consider that this thing can actively make kill spells, discard, and sacrifice effects more efficient as well (and that a second copy of this card can be cast as an expensive divination effect), that seems to be a fairly resilient threat.
well if real there’s one thing your kind of failing to realize
it Has “discard” involved in it and the ward is discard two cards so if they discard a creature you get it before thr death she could get a price spike like Vorinclex did. (For standard)
To me it reads like Yugioh, almost every effect in that game is "once per turn."
Nice it's got more options like that, but I still don't like the once per turn thing, but again, I understand why they use it to balance cards. But like somebody said, it can very likely be a standard defining card if it's real.
I rather think it is an awesome. Who knows - maybe a desperate Jeska realizes the only way to destroy the phyrexians is to resume her mantle as Phage and our inorganic planeswalker (karn) and our organic destroying planeswalker (phage) make the perfect duo to send the phyrexians packing. Also, I like that some of the more abusive and unfun strategies have a few silver bullets - if I kept on facing this guy, I would put her in my 99 just to laugh maniacly.
(I had an accidental moment like this where the boomtown bullies player gave another player a leveler - I played disorder in the court and let the boomtown player join the fun of a 0 card library. But I intentionally put Nexus of fate as an answer to mill strategies - I will often put homeward path because of theft decks)
Ope, you're right. For some reason I was thinking that Ward prevented something from being target unless the cost was paid, rather than countering the spell/ability post-target. Lame.
Oh well, thanks for the heads up!
Surely you can just run a deck staring Phage, Sheoldred, Donate, and Gauntlets of Chaos!
not exactly they just need atleast 2 noncreature cards in hand.