Every set is a faction set, but only sets like Ravnica, Alara, Khans of Tarkir, Strixhaven and Streets of New Capenna have the whole idea of factions in the front and center, to the point that each of these factions have names. Look at every single set with Theme boosters out there. Which sets have theme boosters that aren't just your typical mono color?
Then you have Ikoria. Ikoria has your mono color theme booster, and wedge color commander decks. Each deck has specific themes that fit the Ikoria themes and mechanics. I remember one was all about keyword mechanics, and the another was all about the mutate mechanic. The storyline of Ikoria did not have to mention that the Commander Decks were wedged colors, like I don't know, the triomes, but it did.
So I will keep asking this, why does Ikoria have the Wedge color triomes, and why does Strixhaven and New Capenna have non-mono color theme boosters, unlike every other set?
You saying every set is a faction set is like saying every set is an artifact set, or a graveyard set, or a horror set just because there are zombies in Mirrodin or Vampires in Zendikar. I forgot to mention the prerelease kits. Why does Strixhaven and New Capenna have faction based prerelease kits while for the other sets, everybody gets the same prerelease kit?
Every set is a faction set, but only sets like Ravnica, Alara, Khans of Tarkir, Strixhaven and Streets of New Capenna have the whole idea of factions in the front and center, to the point that each of these factions have names. Look at every single set with Theme boosters out there. Which sets have theme boosters that aren't just your typical mono color?
Then you have Ikoria. Ikoria has your mono color theme booster, and wedge color commander decks. Each deck has speciic themes that fit the Ikoria themes and mechanics. I remember one was all about keyword mechanics, and the another was all about the mutate mechanic. The storyline of Ikoria did not have to mention that the Commander Decks were wedged colors, like I don't know, the triomes?
So I will keep asking this, why does Ikoria have the Wedge color triomes, and why does Strixhaven and New Capenna have non-mono color theme boosters, like every other set?
Ikoria is a faction set. It was also a Wedge set, with wedges being one of the most frequent requests. Strixhaven was an enemy color set. Also heavily requested. Capenna has a shard theme, also heavily requested.
Multicolor is by and far the most commonly revisited theme, and literally part of the core of the game.
If the Spring Commander decks' color identities have absolutely no influence on the set, why does the idea of Wedge colored triomes exist in Ikoria? Why are back to back spring sets some sort of faction set?
If all the Commander Decks' color identities, since Ikoria, were not revealed, would you be able to tell, buy looking at the set only, the color identities of each deck of a non-spring set, compared to the spring set? For non spring sets, there is no way, but for Spring sets, I can easily tell what they are going to be.
Stop pretending that a sequence of two is a pattern and you'll feel better about... probably everything.
Almost every set is a faction set, spring or not. We have had zero non-faction sets since Zendikar Rising. Zero. In a game about conflict, it makes sense for the combatants to have a side in the fight. No brainer, really.
As for why they are color based more often than not (again, regardless of if it is a spring set or not. The loosest color focus on factions in the last two years was Kamigawa, and even that has heavy leaning. One could even argue that Zendikar Rising, not being a faction set, still had mechanically identifiable factions with set color combos in the individual classes that made up the party mechanic) it's pretty simple: the color pie is baked into the game. It is the reason that the game exists. They rarely ever do factions that are not color based. Tribal is probably the only way they do factions outside of color, and even then, each tribe typically falls into 2 or 3 colors.
You're rambling conspiracies that make no sense, are established parts of the game since '93, and have no impact or harm caused at all.
imo kamigawa is a pretty strict monocolor faction set without actually saying so. white -> imperials red -> rebels blue -> technologists black -> yakuza green -> hippies
They just had a lot of overlaps with creature types, but their colors pretty clearly showed who they worked for. All the blue ninjas worked for the futurists, for instance.
Mechanically, the factions are tradition as shown through enchantment centric cards, and modernity, shown through artifact centric cards. These were split mostly by color, with green and white having a heavier traditional side, red and blue having a heavier modern side, and black being somewhere in the middle. Story wise, the factions are split pretty distinctly by color, although some (like the rebels) straddled multiple colors, while others (like the Okiba gang) did not.
Every set is a faction set, but only sets like Ravnica, Alara, Khans of Tarkir, Strixhaven and Streets of New Capenna have the whole idea of factions in the front and center, to the point that each of these factions have names. Look at every single set with Theme boosters out there. Which sets have theme boosters that aren't just your typical mono color?
Then you have Ikoria. Ikoria has your mono color theme booster, and wedge color commander decks. Each deck has speciic themes that fit the Ikoria themes and mechanics. I remember one was all about keyword mechanics, and the another was all about the mutate mechanic. The storyline of Ikoria did not have to mention that the Commander Decks were wedged colors, like I don't know, the triomes?
So I will keep asking this, why does Ikoria have the Wedge color triomes, and why does Strixhaven and New Capenna have non-mono color theme boosters, like every other set?
Ikoria is a faction set. It was also a Wedge set, with wedges being one of the most frequent requests. Strixhaven was an enemy color set. Also heavily requested. Capenna has a shard theme, also heavily requested.
Multicolor is by and far the most commonly revisited theme, and literally part of the core of the game.
You're spinning out about nothing.
Why are these sets in the Spring? Don't you think it is because of Commander that the idea of Wedge, Shard, Ally color, Enemy Color, and Mono Color matters sets are highly requested? Wouldn't that mean that the Spring sets are the way they are because of Commander? You also have no idea what a faction set is. A faction set is a set that being in a sub group matters more than everything else. Odyssey has the 5 factions. The Order, the Cephalids, the Cabal, the Pardic Mountains, and the Krosan Forest. The idea of these factions is very minimal, as Odyssey is a graveyard matters set. Ravnica's factions are all front and center to the point that that is the entire theme of every set with the word Ravnica in it.
Ikoria is not a faction set. It has a wedge subtheme, but it is only there because of it's set associated Commander decks. WOTC could have easily made Ikoria a pure "make monsters" set, and it wouldn't have been any different with or without a Wedge subtheme. The Wedge subtheme is only there because of Commander, and I highly doubt those who do not care about Commander are demanding a Wedge set.
Here is another reason why I think Commander has an influence on the Spring sets. The idea of the major commander release. Why does a major commander release even exist? Why not have each set come with 3 Commander decks? It used to make sense to have a major Commander release because back then, those things came out once a year, not to mention that ever since WOTC removed the cheap Commander deck option, all Commander decks now have the same number of new cards, regardless if those decks are your major release commander decks or not.
Either do away with the major Commander release, or keep the major Commander release, but that release has to go with a Core Set.
Every set is a faction set, but only sets like Ravnica, Alara, Khans of Tarkir, Strixhaven and Streets of New Capenna have the whole idea of factions in the front and center, to the point that each of these factions have names. Look at every single set with Theme boosters out there. Which sets have theme boosters that aren't just your typical mono color?
Then you have Ikoria. Ikoria has your mono color theme booster, and wedge color commander decks. Each deck has speciic themes that fit the Ikoria themes and mechanics. I remember one was all about keyword mechanics, and the another was all about the mutate mechanic. The storyline of Ikoria did not have to mention that the Commander Decks were wedged colors, like I don't know, the triomes?
So I will keep asking this, why does Ikoria have the Wedge color triomes, and why does Strixhaven and New Capenna have non-mono color theme boosters, like every other set?
Ikoria is a faction set. It was also a Wedge set, with wedges being one of the most frequent requests. Strixhaven was an enemy color set. Also heavily requested. Capenna has a shard theme, also heavily requested.
Multicolor is by and far the most commonly revisited theme, and literally part of the core of the game.
You're spinning out about nothing.
Why are these sets in the Spring? Don't you think it is because of Commander that the idea of Wedge, Shard, Ally color, Enemy Color, and Mono Color matters sets are highly requested? Wouldn't that mean that the Spring sets are the way they are because of Commander? You also have no idea what a faction set is. A faction set is a set that being in a sub group matters more than everything else. Odyssey has the 5 factions. The Order, the Cephalids, the Cabal, the Pardic Mountains, and the Krosan Forest. The idea of these factions is very minimal, as Odyssey is a graveyard matters set. Ravnica's factions are all front and center to the point that that is the entire theme of every set with the word Ravnica in it.
Ikoria is not a faction set. It has a wedge subtheme, but it is only there because of it's set associated Commander decks. WOTC could have easily made Ikoria a pure "make monsters" set, and it wouldn't have been any different with or without a Wedge subtheme. The Wedge subtheme is only there because of Commander, and I highly doubt those who do not care about Commander are demanding a Wedge set.
Here is another reason why I think Commander has an influence on the Spring sets. The idea of the major commander release. Why does a major commander release even exist? Why not have each set come with 3 Commander decks? It used to make sense to have a major Commander release because back then, those things came out once a year, not to mention that ever since WOTC removed the cheap Commander deck option, all Commander decks now have the same number of new cards, regardless if those decks are your major release commander decks or not.
Either do away with the major Commander release, or keep the major Commander release, but that release has to go with a Core Set.
They release in the spring because there are only 4 options for seasons to release within. No I don't think crazy random things based purely off of coincidence and your need to see patterns where they do not exist. Commander is one of the factors involved, but multicolor sets have been popular for much, much longer than commander has been popular for. Odyssey is irrelevant here, although I do agree it is not a faction set.
Ikoria is definitely a faction set. It has the borders, using +1/+1 counters and ability counters. It has the monsters using mutate. It has the human tribal themes. These themes matter more than the other parts of the set. It is also a Wedge set. This is clearly baked into the design, and why things like colorless cycling, triomes, and hybrid mana are so prolific within the set. The set clearly benefits from the Wedge themes. There was demand for Wedge sets before there was demand for commander products. Planar Chaos had a Wedge theme before commander had even been renamed from EDH.
Your presumptions seem to hinge on the bizarre belief that a 5 deck commander release must happen in the spring, and therefore warps the spring set. They could release the 5 commander decks any time of the year. They are intentionally flexible.
What are you even talking about with "cheap commander deck" nonsense?
Why would they tie their best selling product to one that sold so poorly that it has been discontinued? This makes no sense what so ever.
Every set is a faction set, but only sets like Ravnica, Alara, Khans of Tarkir, Strixhaven and Streets of New Capenna have the whole idea of factions in the front and center, to the point that each of these factions have names. Look at every single set with Theme boosters out there. Which sets have theme boosters that aren't just your typical mono color?
Then you have Ikoria. Ikoria has your mono color theme booster, and wedge color commander decks. Each deck has speciic themes that fit the Ikoria themes and mechanics. I remember one was all about keyword mechanics, and the another was all about the mutate mechanic. The storyline of Ikoria did not have to mention that the Commander Decks were wedged colors, like I don't know, the triomes?
So I will keep asking this, why does Ikoria have the Wedge color triomes, and why does Strixhaven and New Capenna have non-mono color theme boosters, like every other set?
Ikoria is a faction set. It was also a Wedge set, with wedges being one of the most frequent requests. Strixhaven was an enemy color set. Also heavily requested. Capenna has a shard theme, also heavily requested.
Multicolor is by and far the most commonly revisited theme, and literally part of the core of the game.
You're spinning out about nothing.
Why are these sets in the Spring? Don't you think it is because of Commander that the idea of Wedge, Shard, Ally color, Enemy Color, and Mono Color matters sets are highly requested? Wouldn't that mean that the Spring sets are the way they are because of Commander? You also have no idea what a faction set is. A faction set is a set that being in a sub group matters more than everything else. Odyssey has the 5 factions. The Order, the Cephalids, the Cabal, the Pardic Mountains, and the Krosan Forest. The idea of these factions is very minimal, as Odyssey is a graveyard matters set. Ravnica's factions are all front and center to the point that that is the entire theme of every set with the word Ravnica in it.
Ikoria is not a faction set. It has a wedge subtheme, but it is only there because of it's set associated Commander decks. WOTC could have easily made Ikoria a pure "make monsters" set, and it wouldn't have been any different with or without a Wedge subtheme. The Wedge subtheme is only there because of Commander, and I highly doubt those who do not care about Commander are demanding a Wedge set.
Here is another reason why I think Commander has an influence on the Spring sets. The idea of the major commander release. Why does a major commander release even exist? Why not have each set come with 3 Commander decks? It used to make sense to have a major Commander release because back then, those things came out once a year, not to mention that ever since WOTC removed the cheap Commander deck option, all Commander decks now have the same number of new cards, regardless if those decks are your major release commander decks or not.
Either do away with the major Commander release, or keep the major Commander release, but that release has to go with a Core Set.
They release in the spring because there are only 4 options for seasons to release within. No I don't think crazy random things based purely off of coincidence and your need to see patterns where they do not exist. Commander is one of the factors involved, but multicolor sets have been popular for much, much longer than commander has been popular for. Odyssey is irrelevant here, although I do agree it is not a faction set.
Ikoria is definitely a faction set. It has the borders, using +1/+1 counters and ability counters. It has the monsters using mutate. It has the human tribal themes. These themes matter more than the other parts of the set. It is also a Wedge set. This is clearly baked into the design, and why things like colorless cycling, triomes, and hybrid mana are so prolific within the set. The set clearly benefits from the Wedge themes. There was demand for Wedge sets before there was demand for commander products. Planar Chaos had a Wedge theme before commander had even been renamed from EDH.
Your presumptions seem to hinge on the bizarre belief that a 5 deck commander release must happen in the spring, and therefore warps the spring set. They could release the 5 commander decks any time of the year. They are intentionally flexible.
What are you even talking about with "cheap commander deck" nonsense?
Why would they tie their best selling product to one that sold so poorly that it has been discontinued? This makes no sense what so ever.
Cheap Commander Deck? Have you heard of Zendikar Rising and Kaldheim?
Just by saying Ikoria being a Wedge set, much like Strixhaven being a Enemy Color set, or New Capenna being a shard set, you have proven to me that every single Spring set, so as long as we have this whole notion of a major Commander release, that every spring set will either be a Wedge set, Shard set, Ally color set, Enemy Color set, or Mono Color matters set. No Enchantment, Graveyard, Legendary, Artifact, Basic, High mana cost, Low mana cost, keyword abilities, or whatever anyone could think of, that has nothing to do with color, matters set.
Usually my argument that Commander has an influence on the Spring sets would be shot down because Ikoria wasn't a Wedge set, and here you are, saying it is.
Planar chaos, having a wedge theme, because of 5 cards, does not make it a wedge set, much like how Ravnica isn't a 4 color set.
You haven't explained why these color matters sets, and let's say Ikoria is a wedge set, like you say, is released in the Spring, and not in the Fall, Summer, or Winter. There are indeed 4 options, so why just the one option, and not the other three?
Every set is a faction set, but only sets like Ravnica, Alara, Khans of Tarkir, Strixhaven and Streets of New Capenna have the whole idea of factions in the front and center, to the point that each of these factions have names. Look at every single set with Theme boosters out there. Which sets have theme boosters that aren't just your typical mono color?
Then you have Ikoria. Ikoria has your mono color theme booster, and wedge color commander decks. Each deck has speciic themes that fit the Ikoria themes and mechanics. I remember one was all about keyword mechanics, and the another was all about the mutate mechanic. The storyline of Ikoria did not have to mention that the Commander Decks were wedged colors, like I don't know, the triomes?
So I will keep asking this, why does Ikoria have the Wedge color triomes, and why does Strixhaven and New Capenna have non-mono color theme boosters, like every other set?
Ikoria is a faction set. It was also a Wedge set, with wedges being one of the most frequent requests. Strixhaven was an enemy color set. Also heavily requested. Capenna has a shard theme, also heavily requested.
Multicolor is by and far the most commonly revisited theme, and literally part of the core of the game.
You're spinning out about nothing.
Why are these sets in the Spring? Don't you think it is because of Commander that the idea of Wedge, Shard, Ally color, Enemy Color, and Mono Color matters sets are highly requested? Wouldn't that mean that the Spring sets are the way they are because of Commander? You also have no idea what a faction set is. A faction set is a set that being in a sub group matters more than everything else. Odyssey has the 5 factions. The Order, the Cephalids, the Cabal, the Pardic Mountains, and the Krosan Forest. The idea of these factions is very minimal, as Odyssey is a graveyard matters set. Ravnica's factions are all front and center to the point that that is the entire theme of every set with the word Ravnica in it.
Ikoria is not a faction set. It has a wedge subtheme, but it is only there because of it's set associated Commander decks. WOTC could have easily made Ikoria a pure "make monsters" set, and it wouldn't have been any different with or without a Wedge subtheme. The Wedge subtheme is only there because of Commander, and I highly doubt those who do not care about Commander are demanding a Wedge set.
Here is another reason why I think Commander has an influence on the Spring sets. The idea of the major commander release. Why does a major commander release even exist? Why not have each set come with 3 Commander decks? It used to make sense to have a major Commander release because back then, those things came out once a year, not to mention that ever since WOTC removed the cheap Commander deck option, all Commander decks now have the same number of new cards, regardless if those decks are your major release commander decks or not.
Either do away with the major Commander release, or keep the major Commander release, but that release has to go with a Core Set.
They release in the spring because there are only 4 options for seasons to release within. No I don't think crazy random things based purely off of coincidence and your need to see patterns where they do not exist. Commander is one of the factors involved, but multicolor sets have been popular for much, much longer than commander has been popular for. Odyssey is irrelevant here, although I do agree it is not a faction set.
Ikoria is definitely a faction set. It has the borders, using +1/+1 counters and ability counters. It has the monsters using mutate. It has the human tribal themes. These themes matter more than the other parts of the set. It is also a Wedge set. This is clearly baked into the design, and why things like colorless cycling, triomes, and hybrid mana are so prolific within the set. The set clearly benefits from the Wedge themes. There was demand for Wedge sets before there was demand for commander products. Planar Chaos had a Wedge theme before commander had even been renamed from EDH.
Your presumptions seem to hinge on the bizarre belief that a 5 deck commander release must happen in the spring, and therefore warps the spring set. They could release the 5 commander decks any time of the year. They are intentionally flexible.
What are you even talking about with "cheap commander deck" nonsense?
Why would they tie their best selling product to one that sold so poorly that it has been discontinued? This makes no sense what so ever.
Cheap Commander Deck? Have you heard of Zendikar Rising and Kaldheim?
Just by saying Ikoria being a Wedge set, much like Strixhaven being a Enemy Color set, or New Capenna being a shard set, you have proven to me that every single Spring set, so as long as we have this whole notion of a major Commander release, that every spring set will either be a Wedge set, Shard set, Ally color set, Enemy Color set, or Mono Color matters set. No Enchantment, Graveyard, Legendary, Artifact, Basic, High mana cost, Low mana cost, keyword abilities, or whatever anyone could think of, that has nothing to do with color, matters set.
Usually my argument that Commander has an influence on the Spring sets would be shot down because Ikoria wasn't a Wedge set, and here you are, saying it is.
Planar chaos, having a wedge theme, because of 5 cards, does not make it a wedge set, much like how Ravnica isn't a 4 color set.
You mean the worst selling commander decks of all time? Don't really see why they would make more like those.
You mean like the vast majority of sets ever released? You're basing your bizarre conspiracy theory off of a pattern that doesn't exist and only has three data points. It literally proves nothing. Further, they've done major Commander deck releases before that were not based on color matched factions.
I don't really care what other ways your worthless theory has also been disproven by others.
Planar Chaos dragons were the most popular rares released that year. The set had plenty of supporting enemy color focus to help with it, and draft was designed around it. Did you ever draft Planar Chaos?
Interesting that you bring up Ravnica, which had a whopping 8 multicolor faction sets, and a total of zero coinciding commander decks.
You're looking for a reason to get upset over nothing. You should think more about that than this half baked theory. You may as well be arguing that the moon landing was faked. It would probably make more sense to do that, because at least then you'd have some other logic-innoculated individuals to agree with.
Ikoria is a faction set. It was also a Wedge set, with wedges being one of the most frequent requests. Strixhaven was an enemy color set. Also heavily requested. Capenna has a shard theme, also heavily requested.
Multicolor is by and far the most commonly revisited theme, and literally part of the core of the game.
You're spinning out about nothing.
Why are these sets in the Spring? Don't you think it is because of Commander that the idea of Wedge, Shard, Ally color, Enemy Color, and Mono Color matters sets are highly requested? Wouldn't that mean that the Spring sets are the way they are because of Commander? You also have no idea what a faction set is. A faction set is a set that being in a sub group matters more than everything else. Odyssey has the 5 factions. The Order, the Cephalids, the Cabal, the Pardic Mountains, and the Krosan Forest. The idea of these factions is very minimal, as Odyssey is a graveyard matters set. Ravnica's factions are all front and center to the point that that is the entire theme of every set with the word Ravnica in it.
Ikoria is not a faction set. It has a wedge subtheme, but it is only there because of it's set associated Commander decks. WOTC could have easily made Ikoria a pure "make monsters" set, and it wouldn't have been any different with or without a Wedge subtheme. The Wedge subtheme is only there because of Commander, and I highly doubt those who do not care about Commander are demanding a Wedge set.
Here is another reason why I think Commander has an influence on the Spring sets. The idea of the major commander release. Why does a major commander release even exist? Why not have each set come with 3 Commander decks? It used to make sense to have a major Commander release because back then, those things came out once a year, not to mention that ever since WOTC removed the cheap Commander deck option, all Commander decks now have the same number of new cards, regardless if those decks are your major release commander decks or not.
Either do away with the major Commander release, or keep the major Commander release, but that release has to go with a Core Set.
They release in the spring because there are only 4 options for seasons to release within. No I don't think crazy random things based purely off of coincidence and your need to see patterns where they do not exist. Commander is one of the factors involved, but multicolor sets have been popular for much, much longer than commander has been popular for. Odyssey is irrelevant here, although I do agree it is not a faction set.
Ikoria is definitely a faction set. It has the borders, using +1/+1 counters and ability counters. It has the monsters using mutate. It has the human tribal themes. These themes matter more than the other parts of the set. It is also a Wedge set. This is clearly baked into the design, and why things like colorless cycling, triomes, and hybrid mana are so prolific within the set. The set clearly benefits from the Wedge themes. There was demand for Wedge sets before there was demand for commander products. Planar Chaos had a Wedge theme before commander had even been renamed from EDH.
Your presumptions seem to hinge on the bizarre belief that a 5 deck commander release must happen in the spring, and therefore warps the spring set. They could release the 5 commander decks any time of the year. They are intentionally flexible.
What are you even talking about with "cheap commander deck" nonsense?
Why would they tie their best selling product to one that sold so poorly that it has been discontinued? This makes no sense what so ever.
Cheap Commander Deck? Have you heard of Zendikar Rising and Kaldheim?
Just by saying Ikoria being a Wedge set, much like Strixhaven being a Enemy Color set, or New Capenna being a shard set, you have proven to me that every single Spring set, so as long as we have this whole notion of a major Commander release, that every spring set will either be a Wedge set, Shard set, Ally color set, Enemy Color set, or Mono Color matters set. No Enchantment, Graveyard, Legendary, Artifact, Basic, High mana cost, Low mana cost, keyword abilities, or whatever anyone could think of, that has nothing to do with color, matters set.
Usually my argument that Commander has an influence on the Spring sets would be shot down because Ikoria wasn't a Wedge set, and here you are, saying it is.
Planar chaos, having a wedge theme, because of 5 cards, does not make it a wedge set, much like how Ravnica isn't a 4 color set.
You mean the worst selling commander decks of all time? Don't really see why they would make more like those.
You mean like the vast majority of sets ever released? You're basing your bizarre conspiracy theory off of a pattern that doesn't exist and only has three data points. It literally proves nothing. Further, they've done major Commander deck releases before that were not based on color matched factions.
I don't really care what other ways your worthless theory has also been disproven by others.
Planar Chaos dragons were the most popular rares released that year. The set had plenty of supporting enemy color focus to help with it, and draft was designed around it. Did you ever draft Planar Chaos?
Interesting that you bring up Ravnica, which had a whopping 8 multicolor faction sets, and a total of zero coinciding commander decks.
You're looking for a reason to get upset over nothing. You should think more about that than this half baked theory. You may as well be arguing that the moon landing was faked. It would probably make more sense to do that, because at least then you'd have some other logic-innoculated individuals to agree with.
If they have done commander decks before, not related to color based factions, then why are the Spring Commander releases have sets that are tied to the color based factions? Any set could have themes to make 5 decks, but WOTC chooses not to do it. Ravnica had 8 multicolor faction sets, with no Commander decks, but they had Theme Decks, Intro Packs, and Planeswalker decks. Bet you don't know what the themes and mechanics of these decks are all about do you.
So far, it is 3 for 3. It is going to be 4 for 4, 5 for 5, and then 6 for 6 and so on. When we get a Spring set that has Wedge, Ally, Enemy, Mono, or Shard Commander decks, and the set has nothing to do with what the colors of the Commander Decks are, while holding onto the idea of a Major Commander release, then my argument won't hold true. Commander's rules relies on color, you know, the color identity? It would make the most sense that a major commander release's set would have something to do with color.
I doubt that when designing Planar Chaos, WOTC is saying, "let's make a wedge set". If that's the case, it's 4 theme decks would be all Wedge colored, but they're not. Usually the Theme Decks and Intro Packs showcase the themes and mechanics of the set, and if the set is Wedge focused, we'd get Wedge precons. Look at Khans of Tarkir.
All I am saying is, just like Ikoria, Planar Chaos, or any other set not named Alara, Tarkir, Strixhaven, or Capenna, that you can have a color theme to it, without having the entire set's focus be on any number of colored factions. Some of us want to go back to the old Commander precons where the 5 characters have nothing to do with each other. I don't want specific planes to be carbon copies of Ravnica, just change the fact that they aren't guilds but instead they are schools, shards, clans, or crime families.
Let's say I am obsessed with set associated precons, and I pretty much own almost every one of them starting from Nemesis, with the exception of Prophecy, Planeshift, Lorwyn Shadowmoor block, Alara Block, and Zendikar block. I know that for each deck they are based on themes and mechanics from the set. It is no different with the set associated Commander decks. Kamigawa's Commander decks are all about vehicles and modify. So far, with the spring sets being tied to the major commander release, we have color faction sets. It as if WOTC decided that the decks are shard color, and they have to build the set in such a way to have a shard theme, or some sort of subtheme. The easiest way to make sure that your precons are these specific colors, and also be thematically linked to the set is to make the set be color focused. The Commander decks, or intro packs, or theme decks, must all have ally colors, so the easiest way is to make a Ravnica like set.
For color based factions, there is a difference between starting out with one or more colors, and assigning things, places, or gameplay mechanics to it, as opposed to having the gameplay mechanic, thing, or place be assigned a color. An example of the former is anything whose major theme is based on color, and the latter is Innistrad's vampires being red black, or a elves of Lorwyn being black green.
So far, with Strixhaven and New Capenna, the concept is, divide the factions into colors, and put organize places, things, or gameplay mechanics into these colors. If the Commander Decks of a major release have to be certain colors, such as all shard, wedge, ally color, mono color, or enemy color, it would be easy to just make a color based set, and I don't see WOTC changing from this formula. Ikoria had wedge commander decks, but their themes weren't Wedge based. The Symbiotic Swarm isn't a Black Green White matters deck. It is a keyword counters matters deck, or how enhanced evolution isn't a black green blue matters deck, but a mutate matters deck. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure that keyword counters is not limited to the Black Green White wedge, and mutate is not limited to the Black Green Blue wedge. With Strixhaven, whatever them that deck is is is pretty much contained within that one school that deck represents.
As I said, loads of theme decks, intro packs, and Planeswalker decks. Usually, they pick a theme from the set, build a deck, and pick the colors that best suit the theme, but when you have to have the Commander decks be a specific color, you kind of have to build a color based set to make those Commander decks work, and I don't see how WOTC can do any different.
All I'm saying is, with New Capenna, WOTC could have made it not about color, and instead be like Kamigawa, or Innistrad. Pick 5 themes from the set, and build decks around it, and then assign the color of that deck that makes the most sense, instead of saying that the deck has to be certain colors. WOTC has done it for years with Intro Packs and Theme Decks, but why would they do that? Those kinds of sets and Commander precons are reserved for the non-major Commander releases in the Summer, Fall, and Winter.
Every new plane is going in the Spring is going to be wasted because something about it has to line up with the fact that the Commander release has to be a Wedge, Shard, Ally color, Enemy color, or Mono color set. It isn't to say that WOTC has to make all ally color decks or wedge decks. They have done so in 2017 to 2019, but for Commander 2020 and beyond, they wanted to go back to all wedge, all shard etc. Here's my prediction. Spring 2023 set is a world with discrimination where people discriminate against people who don't use their color of mana, and everybody in that world is born with the ability to use one color of mana. Spring 2024 set is a plane where you have your allied colors and each ally color is a job in the world.
Just think. What do you think is easier if the Spring 2023 major Commander release has to be allied color. Make an Allied color matters set, or make a set, and hope the themes and mechanics happen to line up with the allied colors? Why would WOTC want to do anything the hard way? They couldn't even come up with 5 themes to make 5 Kamigawa Neon Dynasty Commander Decks.
You keep on saying this is a conspiracy, but ever since set associated precons existed, they are meant to show the themes and mechanics of the set, and if a precon has to be a specific color, like Red White, there is no choice but to make a red white based theme in the set just so the precon can fit that theme. Strixhaven is a enemy color school theme, because if it was anything else, it would be difficult to ensure that all 5 commander decks would be enemy color. This is even more so if the decks have to be wedge, shard, or nephilim colors. Any set associated precons with Wedge, or Shard, is a set in which the Wedge of Shard matters. Years of Theme Decks and Intro Packs suggest that it is kind of difficult to have all ally or enemy color decks in the set without the set being color based.
Why are these sets in the Spring? Don't you think it is because of Commander that the idea of Wedge, Shard, Ally color, Enemy Color, and Mono Color matters sets are highly requested? Wouldn't that mean that the Spring sets are the way they are because of Commander? You also have no idea what a faction set is. A faction set is a set that being in a sub group matters more than everything else. Odyssey has the 5 factions. The Order, the Cephalids, the Cabal, the Pardic Mountains, and the Krosan Forest. The idea of these factions is very minimal, as Odyssey is a graveyard matters set. Ravnica's factions are all front and center to the point that that is the entire theme of every set with the word Ravnica in it.
Ikoria is not a faction set. It has a wedge subtheme, but it is only there because of it's set associated Commander decks. WOTC could have easily made Ikoria a pure "make monsters" set, and it wouldn't have been any different with or without a Wedge subtheme. The Wedge subtheme is only there because of Commander, and I highly doubt those who do not care about Commander are demanding a Wedge set.
Here is another reason why I think Commander has an influence on the Spring sets. The idea of the major commander release. Why does a major commander release even exist? Why not have each set come with 3 Commander decks? It used to make sense to have a major Commander release because back then, those things came out once a year, not to mention that ever since WOTC removed the cheap Commander deck option, all Commander decks now have the same number of new cards, regardless if those decks are your major release commander decks or not.
Either do away with the major Commander release, or keep the major Commander release, but that release has to go with a Core Set.
They release in the spring because there are only 4 options for seasons to release within. No I don't think crazy random things based purely off of coincidence and your need to see patterns where they do not exist. Commander is one of the factors involved, but multicolor sets have been popular for much, much longer than commander has been popular for. Odyssey is irrelevant here, although I do agree it is not a faction set.
Ikoria is definitely a faction set. It has the borders, using +1/+1 counters and ability counters. It has the monsters using mutate. It has the human tribal themes. These themes matter more than the other parts of the set. It is also a Wedge set. This is clearly baked into the design, and why things like colorless cycling, triomes, and hybrid mana are so prolific within the set. The set clearly benefits from the Wedge themes. There was demand for Wedge sets before there was demand for commander products. Planar Chaos had a Wedge theme before commander had even been renamed from EDH.
Your presumptions seem to hinge on the bizarre belief that a 5 deck commander release must happen in the spring, and therefore warps the spring set. They could release the 5 commander decks any time of the year. They are intentionally flexible.
What are you even talking about with "cheap commander deck" nonsense?
Why would they tie their best selling product to one that sold so poorly that it has been discontinued? This makes no sense what so ever.
Cheap Commander Deck? Have you heard of Zendikar Rising and Kaldheim?
Just by saying Ikoria being a Wedge set, much like Strixhaven being a Enemy Color set, or New Capenna being a shard set, you have proven to me that every single Spring set, so as long as we have this whole notion of a major Commander release, that every spring set will either be a Wedge set, Shard set, Ally color set, Enemy Color set, or Mono Color matters set. No Enchantment, Graveyard, Legendary, Artifact, Basic, High mana cost, Low mana cost, keyword abilities, or whatever anyone could think of, that has nothing to do with color, matters set.
Usually my argument that Commander has an influence on the Spring sets would be shot down because Ikoria wasn't a Wedge set, and here you are, saying it is.
Planar chaos, having a wedge theme, because of 5 cards, does not make it a wedge set, much like how Ravnica isn't a 4 color set.
You mean the worst selling commander decks of all time? Don't really see why they would make more like those.
You mean like the vast majority of sets ever released? You're basing your bizarre conspiracy theory off of a pattern that doesn't exist and only has three data points. It literally proves nothing. Further, they've done major Commander deck releases before that were not based on color matched factions.
I don't really care what other ways your worthless theory has also been disproven by others.
Planar Chaos dragons were the most popular rares released that year. The set had plenty of supporting enemy color focus to help with it, and draft was designed around it. Did you ever draft Planar Chaos?
Interesting that you bring up Ravnica, which had a whopping 8 multicolor faction sets, and a total of zero coinciding commander decks.
You're looking for a reason to get upset over nothing. You should think more about that than this half baked theory. You may as well be arguing that the moon landing was faked. It would probably make more sense to do that, because at least then you'd have some other logic-innoculated individuals to agree with.
If they have done commander decks before, not related to color based factions, then why are the Spring Commander releases have sets that are tied to the color based factions? Any set could have themes to make 5 decks, but WOTC chooses not to do it. Ravnica had 8 multicolor faction sets, with no Commander decks, but they had Theme Decks, Intro Packs, and Planeswalker decks. Bet you don't know what the themes and mechanics of these decks are all about do you.
So far, it is 3 for 3. It is going to be 4 for 4, 5 for 5, and then 6 for 6 and so on. When we get a Spring set that has Wedge, Ally, Enemy, Mono, or Shard Commander decks, and the set has nothing to do with what the colors of the Commander Decks are, while holding onto the idea of a Major Commander release, then my argument won't hold true. Commander's rules relies on color, you know, the color identity? It would make the most sense that a major commander release's set would have something to do with color.
I doubt that when designing Planar Chaos, WOTC is saying, "let's make a wedge set". If that's the case, it's 4 theme decks would be all Wedge colored, but they're not. Usually the Theme Decks and Intro Packs showcase the themes and mechanics of the set, and if the set is Wedge focused, we'd get Wedge precons. Look at Khans of Tarkir.
All I am saying is, just like Ikoria, Planar Chaos, or any other set not named Alara, Tarkir, Strixhaven, or Capenna, that you can have a color theme to it, without having the entire set's focus be on any number of colored factions. Some of us want to go back to the old Commander precons where the 5 characters have nothing to do with each other. I don't want specific planes to be carbon copies of Ravnica, just change the fact that they aren't guilds but instead they are schools, shards, clans, or crime families.
Let's say I am obsessed with set associated precons, and I pretty much own almost every one of them starting from Nemesis, with the exception of Prophecy, Planeshift, Lorwyn Shadowmoor block, Alara Block, and Zendikar block. I know that for each deck they are based on themes and mechanics from the set. It is no different with the set associated Commander decks. Kamigawa's Commander decks are all about vehicles and modify. So far, with the spring sets being tied to the major commander release, we have color faction sets. It as if WOTC decided that the decks are shard color, and they have to build the set in such a way to have a shard theme, or some sort of subtheme. The easiest way to make sure that your precons are these specific colors, and also be thematically linked to the set is to make the set be color focused. The Commander decks, or intro packs, or theme decks, must all have ally colors, so the easiest way is to make a Ravnica like set.
For color based factions, there is a difference between starting out with one or more colors, and assigning things, places, or gameplay mechanics to it, as opposed to having the gameplay mechanic, thing, or place be assigned a color. An example of the former is anything whose major theme is based on color, and the latter is Innistrad's vampires being red black, or a elves of Lorwyn being black green.
So far, with Strixhaven and New Capenna, the concept is, divide the factions into colors, and put organize places, things, or gameplay mechanics into these colors. If the Commander Decks of a major release have to be certain colors, such as all shard, wedge, ally color, mono color, or enemy color, it would be easy to just make a color based set, and I don't see WOTC changing from this formula. Ikoria had wedge commander decks, but their themes weren't Wedge based. The Symbiotic Swarm isn't a Black Green White matters deck. It is a keyword counters matters deck, or how enhanced evolution isn't a black green blue matters deck, but a mutate matters deck. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure that keyword counters is not limited to the Black Green White wedge, and mutate is not limited to the Black Green Blue wedge. With Strixhaven, whatever them that deck is is is pretty much contained within that one school that deck represents.
As I said, loads of theme decks, intro packs, and Planeswalker decks. Usually, they pick a theme from the set, build a deck, and pick the colors that best suit the theme, but when you have to have the Commander decks be a specific color, you kind of have to build a color based set to make those Commander decks work, and I don't see how WOTC can do any different.
All I'm saying is, with New Capenna, WOTC could have made it not about color, and instead be like Kamigawa, or Innistrad. Pick 5 themes from the set, and build decks around it, and then assign the color of that deck that makes the most sense, instead of saying that the deck has to be certain colors. WOTC has done it for years with Intro Packs and Theme Decks, but why would they do that? Those kinds of sets and Commander precons are reserved for the non-major Commander releases in the Summer, Fall, and Winter.
Every new plane is going in the Spring is going to be wasted because something about it has to line up with the fact that the Commander release has to be a Wedge, Shard, Ally color, Enemy color, or Mono color set. It isn't to say that WOTC has to make all ally color decks or wedge decks. They have done so in 2017 to 2019, but for Commander 2020 and beyond, they wanted to go back to all wedge, all shard etc. Here's my prediction. Spring 2023 set is a world with discrimination where people discriminate against people who don't use their color of mana, and everybody in that world is born with the ability to use one color of mana. Spring 2024 set is a plane where you have your allied colors and each ally color is a job in the world.
Just think. What do you think is easier if the Spring 2023 major Commander release has to be allied color. Make an Allied color matters set, or make a set, and hope the themes and mechanics happen to line up with the allied colors? Why would WOTC want to do anything the hard way? They couldn't even come up with 5 themes to make 5 Kamigawa Neon Dynasty Commander Decks.
Theros had those things too, and wasn't color based or a faction set. Bet you don't know the themes of making a coherent claim, do you?
The entire game of magic is based on the color pie. We are almost 100% on magic sets that care about color. Correlation is not causation. Correlation is not causation. Correlation is not causation. Repeating statements doesn't change their validity.
Commander's rules are no more based on color than any other format, minus a minor limitation that honestly barely matters in 99% of cases.
Wait, so should theme decks and ancillary products match the sets themes or not? Pick a side.
Yes, some sets push harder with different aspects of their themes than others. That doesn't make them not core themes of the sets. Nobody really cares what you want, and especially not about what your shallow perceptions of things are. Yawn.
I promise you that your obsession is harming your case here more than helping it. There is no logical basis for believing that they are choosing the entire trajectory of a group of products to fit into the boxes of one of them. It makes no sense on amy level to do so.
How many cards in Ravnica actually care about what colors you play? Or Alara? Or Tarkir? You're not making sense here.
You keep alluding to them "having to have commander decks be certain colors" but have at no point done anything to explain where that belief comes from. They don't have to be anything. You're inventing this random trait and running an entire rant filled conspiracy post with it. It's pretty sad.
They could have made New Capenna about homarids vs banding if they felt like it. Instead they chose one of the most popular and oft requested themes. Gee, go figure.
How is it a "wasted" set for them to align with the most popular themes that almost every set falls into regardless? Why do commander decks, which have multiple times not met that pattern, have to fit that pattern? You're not establishing anything as a fact. You're just making claims based on coincidence, conspiracy, and falsehoods reinforced purely on anecdotes, poor logic, and repeating yourself.
Ah yes, the people releasing over 80 products a year, and selling one of them most popular table top games on the planet are just lazy. They are beholden to an unbreakable commander release schedule that is codified into law.
Just think. What makes more sense: that they warp more than a dozen different products to fit a self.imposed rule about both release schedules and color identity, or that a pattern of three is not a pattern?
But of course, if you just thought, we wouldn't be having this discussion and all the educational opportunities that come with it. I wouldn't want you to be left having nothing to complain about, let alone any of the valid and logical complaints to be had about this game, so maybe it's best if you continue not thinking.
Edit: I'm done hijacking this thread, and you should be too. If you have any further weird assumptions, misconceptions, and/ or pointless conspiracies to discuss, please do so with my message box.
What part of a color matters set don't you understand? The idea where the world is divided into factions based on color? To the point that colors matters so much that every colored faction has a name? It matters so much that every set associated precon has that faction's name on it, not only that, the Theme Boosters and Prerelease packs are based on those factions? There is no way you could tell the difference because you think all sets are based on color.
I realized that all you said had no mention of the storyline. It's all gameplay.
The idea of a plane only makes sense in a story perspective, not gameplay. If you care about gameplay, like what most of your arguments are all about, then it doesn't matter which cards are from which plane, but because Strixhaven's Commander decks have to be enemy color, there has to be an enemy color theme in the story. In other sets, the idea of colored factions isn't as pronounced as in Strixhaven or New Capenna. Ikoria Triomes, Strixhaven schools, and New Capenna crime families are story elements. These elements exist because the Commander Decks have to be certain colors. The Ikoria, Strixhaven, and New Capenna Commander decks being all wedge, enemy color, and shard colors respectively is the same reason why Commander 2011 is all wedge, 2013 is all shard, 2014 is all mono color, 2015 is all enemy color, and 2016 is all colors but one.
My idea to have the core set coincide with the main commander release is to have the story focus on 5 characters, not on a single plane, so each plane's storyline concept won't be a carbon copy of, here are 5 places or factions, with their color identities. You'd also have to see that with the popularity of Commander, the idea of wanting a Wedge or Shard set would increase, but that is only to get the multicolor cards.
So you're telling me that a Core set filled with shard or wedge cards is not as desirable as a plane focused on shards or wedges? Are people demanding shard and wedge cards, or a plane that is shard or wedge themed?
What part of a color matters set don't you understand? The idea where the world is divided into factions based on color? To the point that colors matters so much that every colored faction has a name? It matters so much that every set associated precon has that faction's name on it, not only that, the Theme Boosters and Prerelease packs are based on those factions? There is no way you could tell the difference because you think all sets are based on color.
I realized that all you said had no mention of the storyline. It's all gameplay.
The idea of a plane only makes sense in a story perspective, not gameplay. If you care about gameplay, like what most of your arguments are all about, then it doesn't matter which cards are from which plane, but because Strixhaven's Commander decks have to be enemy color, there has to be an enemy color theme in the story. In other sets, the idea of colored factions isn't as pronounced as in Strixhaven or New Capenna. Ikoria Triomes, Strixhaven schools, and New Capenna crime families are story elements. These elements exist because the Commander Decks have to be certain colors. The Ikoria, Strixhaven, and New Capenna Commander decks being all wedge, enemy color, and shard colors respectively is the same reason why Commander 2011 is all wedge, 2013 is all shard, 2014 is all mono color, 2015 is all enemy color, and 2016 is all colors but one.
My idea to have the core set coincide with the main commander release is to have the story focus on 5 characters, not on a single plane, so each plane's storyline concept won't be a carbon copy of, here are 5 places or factions, with their color identities. You'd also have to see that with the popularity of Commander, the idea of wanting a Wedge or Shard set would increase, but that is only to get the multicolor cards.
So you're telling me that a Core set filled with shard or wedge cards is not as desirable as a plane focused on shards or wedges? Are people demanding shard and wedge cards, or a plane that is shard or wedge themed?
What part of "hey let's not effing hijack a thread" is difficult for you to understand? I skimmed this post at best. This is blatantly not what the thread is about, it's just you jumping to poorly based conclusions using random, unrelated data points, and unproven assumptions while I try to use common sense. If you want to discuss this further, please do so with my inbox rather than take up entire pages of a thread. We don't need an entire thread dedicated to how incorrect your logic here is. Your initial post about it summed that up all on it's own. If you'd like to discuss this further with me on this thread, feel free to use actual evidence instead of bizarre conclusions from unrelated data. That would be a nice change of pace. Lacking that, this is really just spam. It's literally you presenting your gut instinct and poor reasoning skills as hard facts.
Last time I checked, this thread is about Capenna, which is a spring set, and Commander. My complaint is Capenna has almost the same formula as Strixhaven, and it is because of the Major Commander release.
You keep on saying 3 data points. Are you going to say someone is definitely, for sure, wrong just because they say that there is going to be 5 set associated Commander Decks in the Spring 2023 set?
Every time WOTC has released 5 Commander decks at once, all of them are either Mono color, enemy color, wedge, shard, or 4 color. There was never a mix of any of these. That is 8 data points.
Commander 2011
Commander 2013
Commander 2014
Commander 2015
Commander 2016
Ikoria Commander
Strixhaven Commander
Streets of New Capenna Commander.
There are 14 data points of sets based on factions whose precons are themed after the factions.
Ravnica City of Guilds
Guildpact
Dissension
Shards of Alara
Conflux
Return to Ravnica
Gatecrash
Dragon's Maze
Khans of Tarkir
Dragons of Tarkir
Guilds of Ravnica
Ravnica Allegiance
Strixhaven
Streets of New Capenna
WOTC could keep the same themes used to make the Commander Decks from Ikoria to the current set, and have them be Theme Decks, Intro Packs or Planeswalker decks. Likewise, they could also keep the same themes used to make the Theme Decks, Intro Packs, and Planeswalker Decks, and make them into Commander Decks. With that in mind, as long as there are 5 Commander decks in the set, for some reason, they have to be all of same color combination type, such as all ally color, all wedges etc, and since these decks are tied to sets, and with what the Theme Decks, Intro Packs, Planeswalker Deck, and set associated Commander Decks themes are, it would be safe to assume that because every Spring set is associated with the Major Commander release and every Commander release with 5 decks has to be only one type of color combinations, such as all wedges, as shown by 8 data points not 3, it is easier to make a faction based set, like the Guilds of Ravnica, Shards of Alara, Schools of Strixhaven, Khans of Tarkir, or Crime Families of Capenna.
If you were to make a set knowing that the set associated Commander decks had to be all 5 shard based colors, there is no way you would create a set where there is no reference to any shard colors anywhere. Likewise, if you created a set, and you wanted the set associated Commander decks to best showcase the set, like Theme Decks and Intro Packs did before, history has shown that unless the set is color themed, chances are you are going to get a mix of mono, 2 color, 3 color, ally, wedge, shard, or enemy color decks. Shards of Alara was a Shard set, and it's intro packs are based on each shard because that is what the set is. For New Capenna, WOTC knows that the Commander Decks are shard based, so they had to build the set, gameplay, world, storyline, with a shard theme, or else the Commander Decks won't fit. That is how it is going to be every spring, and that is with using every single Commander Deck release in existence, that came in groups of 5, and how WOTC released every set associated precon ever.
If as you say, we are getting a shard set because people wanted shard cards, WOTC could have achieved the same result, and released a set of 5 Commander Decks similar to how they did in 2013, and release a Core set alongside it with some Shard sub themes, but no, there has to be a plane attached to it with heavy shard themes.
Last time I checked, this thread is about Capenna, which is a spring set, and Commander. My complaint is Capenna has almost the same formula as Strixhaven, and it is because of the Major Commander release.
You keep on saying 3 data points. Are you going to say someone is definitely, for sure, wrong just because they say that there is going to be 5 set associated Commander Decks in the Spring 2023 set?
Every time WOTC has released 5 Commander decks at once, all of them are either Mono color, enemy color, wedge, shard, or 4 color. There was never a mix of any of these. That is 8 data points.
Commander 2011
Commander 2013
Commander 2014
Commander 2015
Commander 2016
Ikoria Commander
Strixhaven Commander
Streets of New Capenna Commander.
There are 14 data points of sets based on factions whose precons are themed after the factions.
Ravnica City of Guilds
Guildpact
Dissension
Shards of Alara
Conflux
Return to Ravnica
Gatecrash
Dragon's Maze
Khans of Tarkir
Dragons of Tarkir
Guilds of Ravnica
Ravnica Allegiance
Strixhaven
Streets of New Capenna
WOTC could keep the same themes used to make the Commander Decks from Ikoria to the current set, and have them be Theme Decks, Intro Packs or Planeswalker decks. Likewise, they could also keep the same themes used to make the Theme Decks, Intro Packs, and Planeswalker Decks, and make them into Commander Decks. With that in mind, as long as there are 5 Commander decks in the set, for some reason, they have to be all of same color combination type, such as all ally color, all wedges etc, and since these decks are tied to sets, and with what the Theme Decks, Intro Packs, Planeswalker Deck, and set associated Commander Decks themes are, it would be safe to assume that because every Spring set is associated with the Major Commander release and every Commander release with 5 decks has to be only one type of color combinations, such as all wedges, as shown by 8 data points not 3, it is easier to make a faction based set, like the Guilds of Ravnica, Shards of Alara, Schools of Strixhaven, Khans of Tarkir, or Crime Families of Capenna.
If you were to make a set knowing that the set associated Commander decks had to be all 5 shard based colors, there is no way you would create a set where there is no reference to any shard colors anywhere. Likewise, if you created a set, and you wanted the set associated Commander decks to best showcase the set, like Theme Decks and Intro Packs did before, history has shown that unless the set is color themed, chances are you are going to get a mix of mono, 2 color, 3 color, ally, wedge, shard, or enemy color decks. Shards of Alara was a Shard set, and it's intro packs are based on each shard because that is what the set is. For New Capenna, WOTC knows that the Commander Decks are shard based, so they had to build the set, gameplay, world, storyline, with a shard theme, or else the Commander Decks won't fit. That is how it is going to be every spring, and that is with using every single Commander Deck release in existence, that came in groups of 5, and how WOTC released every set associated precon ever.
If as you say, we are getting a shard set because people wanted shard cards, WOTC could have achieved the same result, and released a set of 5 Commander Decks similar to how they did in 2013, and release a Core set alongside it with some Shard sub themes, but no, there has to be a plane attached to it with heavy shard themes.
That sure is a lot of random data that doesn't support anything. You're just finding patterns in unrelated things to support an idea that doesn't exist, wouldn't effect anything if it did, and is not even tangents supported the way you think it is. You're baselessly applying an intent to random dates and facts you jammed together. I genuinely feel sorry that you believe that your posts have been coherent or intelligent. Doubly so that you believe so with such conviction that you managed to seed needless condescension through out.
This is spam my dude. It has nothing to do with the actual topic. It is a tangent that is at best adjacent to the topic, and in all reality is just some random conspiracy theory that you have chosen to take over amy rational discussion of the actual topic at hand. If you have any evidence of such a theory beyond your circumstantial observations, feel free to present them. It seems like you're basing all of this on some unsupported assumptions about what they "have" to do, without establishing any basis for believing that they have to do these things. You just keep repeating the most easily reputable part over and over as the evidence for the rest of your points. I'm really not sure that you have actually read through your posts here or not.
But hey, of your goal is to get the Last Word, congrats. You aren't making any attempts to establish your claims, so I will take no further attempts at refuting them. You've pretty much got that covered.
Ever since Commander decks were released in groups of 5, it was always all of either mono, ally, enemy, wedge, shard, or 4 color. Never a mix of any of the 6. The 5 decks are also color balanced, meaning that all colors are represented equally across all 5 decks.
Set associated precons are precons that take a theme or mechanic and build a deck around it.
New Capenna Commander decks traces its lineage with the annual Commander release started with Commander 2013. It also traces its lineage with every single set associated precon that came before.
Ikoria, Strixhaven, and New Capenna Commander decks is trying to be both the annual major Commander release and the set's associated precon, when it should only be one of the two.
My belief is that WOTC decided to have 2022's Commander decks be shard, so that means to have the themes and mechanics of the set make sense with the set associated precon, the set has to be shard themed. There is zero chance that the Commander decks have zero influence on what the set is.
Then again, it is easy to refute my claims saying that my data does not count, especially when you probably don't follow precon releases for the past 15 to 20 years like I have.
I am right here agreeing with the complaints that the new Capenna set is affecting the 2022 major commander release, while at the same time, I state that the 2022 major Commander release is affecting what the set here. You then jump in and started the derailment by stating that every set was a faction set, when only Ravnica, Alara, Tarkir, Strixhaven, and Capenna are faction sets, much so that it is baked into the story.
Capenna is a spring set with the major Commander release. I am having discussions over "Commander 2022" having an effect over what Capenna is, and pretty much the same goes for every spring set. Either WOTC has to make a colored faction set, with colored factions as its main theme, or they, through the world building, have to mention the color identities of the Commander decks.
Commander 2022 are shard decks.
Take the idea of the shard and build a set around it. Add themes and mechanics to those shards.
Using those themes and mechanics from those shards, build the commander decks.
There is no way that WOTC suddenly wanted to make New Capenna a shard set without thinking about the 2022 major Commander release.
I just realized you were trolling the entire time. Enticing more and more rage in every response I've made. Stating every set is a faction set, when you don't see tbat I am referring to the thing that is unique to Ravnica, Alara, Tarkir, Strixhaven, and New Capenna, even stating Ikoria is a faction set when, compared to Ravnica, is not. I give examples as to why Capenna is the way it is, and you state my examples don't count without explaining why. I've explained myself, stating that was how WOTC did things for the past decade.
I just realized you were trolling the entire time. Enticing more and more rage in every response I've made. Stating every set is a faction set, when you don't see tbat I am referring to the thing that is unique to Ravnica, Alara, Tarkir, Strixhaven, and New Capenna, even stating Ikoria is a faction set when, compared to Ravnica, is not. I give examples as to why Capenna is the way it is, and you state my examples don't count without explaining why. I've explained myself, stating that was how WOTC did things for the past decade.
You literally didn't do any of that. You stated your opinions and specifically avoided explaining them. You just keep insisting that the entirety of design is putting the cart before the horse. If you're getting angrier and angrier at each of my posts, then you're over investing.
Honestly, I believe the person trolling here is definitely the one insisting that a poorly observed correlation is evidence of causation, and that over a dozen products, most of which sell better than commander decks, are designed to confirm to the commander decks, without even attempting to provide any reason or logic as to why they are doing so. And throughout the entire conversation, you've peppered your posts with condescension and an unfounded belief that your monomaniacal obsession with theme decks somehow gives you any special knowledge about them. Like, when you mentioned that I probably haven't followed theme decks for the last 15-20 years. For all you know, I have all of them in a hermetically sealed vault. It speaks volumes about how you use your own assumptions to confirm your own assumptions. My assumption is that you haven't followed them closely for 15-20 years. Mostly because I don't believe that you are old enough to have done so.
Do you believe that Odyssey is a graveyard set because they had to make a black-red theme deck that used the threshold mechanic? Geez, the rares in white-blue one were a nomad and a cephalid. No wonder we didn't get any soldiers or merfolk; they designed the set to match the theme deck.
I just realized you were trolling the entire time. Enticing more and more rage in every response I've made. Stating every set is a faction set, when you don't see tbat I am referring to the thing that is unique to Ravnica, Alara, Tarkir, Strixhaven, and New Capenna, even stating Ikoria is a faction set when, compared to Ravnica, is not. I give examples as to why Capenna is the way it is, and you state my examples don't count without explaining why. I've explained myself, stating that was how WOTC did things for the past decade.
You literally didn't do any of that. You stated your opinions and specifically avoided explaining them. You just keep insisting that the entirety of design is putting the cart before the horse. If you're getting angrier and angrier at each of my posts, then you're over investing.
Do you believe that Odyssey is a graveyard set because they had to make a black-red theme deck that used the threshold mechanic? Geez, the rares in white-blue one were a nomad and a cephalid. No wonder we didn't get any soldiers or merfolk; they designed the set to match the theme deck.
That's not what I said. Every set associated precon has decks designed with the set in mind. This isn't the case with the last 3 spring sets. There is some influence that the Commander decks have, usually the color identity, on the set because they are the major Commander release.
What I want WOTC to do is discontinue the major Commander release, and have each set release 3 Commander decks instead, or have the spring set be a core set.
Getting rid of the major commander release means that the decks can be built like every single set associated precon, where the deck is based on the set, and the set isn't influenced by the precons.
Turning the spring set into a core set means that the major commander release won't have legendaries all from the same plane.
As it stands, the spring set is affecting the major commander release, and the major commander release is affecting the spring set.
Kamigawa Neon Dynasty Commander decks lineage is the Planeswalker decks, Intro Packs, and Theme decks that came before them. Capenna comnander decks lineage is the same plus the annual Commander decks that came before. WOTC needs to decide if they are set associated precons or a major Commander release, not both. The reason we have shard theme Capenna is because 2022 major Comnander decks have to be all shards.
Why even have a major commander release when all comnander decks have the same number of new cards regardless of which set it is from?
It made sense 2 years ago because the major commander decks had more new cards and cost more than the non, major ones. Now there is no difference.
Maybe the spring 2023 set won't be influenced by its commander decks because WOTC realizes that there is no point in major commander releases anymore.
I just realized you were trolling the entire time. Enticing more and more rage in every response I've made. Stating every set is a faction set, when you don't see tbat I am referring to the thing that is unique to Ravnica, Alara, Tarkir, Strixhaven, and New Capenna, even stating Ikoria is a faction set when, compared to Ravnica, is not. I give examples as to why Capenna is the way it is, and you state my examples don't count without explaining why. I've explained myself, stating that was how WOTC did things for the past decade.
You literally didn't do any of that. You stated your opinions and specifically avoided explaining them. You just keep insisting that the entirety of design is putting the cart before the horse. If you're getting angrier and angrier at each of my posts, then you're over investing.
Do you believe that Odyssey is a graveyard set because they had to make a black-red theme deck that used the threshold mechanic? Geez, the rares in white-blue one were a nomad and a cephalid. No wonder we didn't get any soldiers or merfolk; they designed the set to match the theme deck.
That's not what I said. Every set associated precon has decks designed with the set in mind. This isn't the case with the last 3 spring sets. There is some influence that the Commander decks have, usually the color identity, on the set because they are the major Commander release.
What I want WOTC to do is discontinue the major Commander release, and have each set release 3 Commander decks instead, or have the spring set be a core set.
Getting rid of the major commander release means that the decks can be built like every single set associated precon, where the deck is based on the set, and the set isn't influenced by the precons.
Turning the spring set into a core set means that the major commander release won't have legendaries all from the same plane.
As it stands, the spring set is affecting the major commander release, and the major commander release is affecting the spring set.
Kamigawa Neon Dynasty Commander decks lineage is the Planeswalker decks, Intro Packs, and Theme decks that came before them. Capenna comnander decks lineage is the same plus the annual Commander decks that came before. WOTC needs to decide if they are set associated precons or a major Commander release, not both. The reason we have shard theme Capenna is because 2022 major Comnander decks have to be all shards.
Why even have a major commander release when all comnander decks have the same number of new cards regardless of which set it is from?
It made sense 2 years ago because the major commander decks had more new cards and cost more than the non, major ones. Now there is no difference.
Maybe the spring 2023 set won't be influenced by its commander decks because WOTC realizes that there is no point in major commander releases anymore.
You keep repeating that first point without anything to back it up. What actual evidence or corroborating information do you have to support it, beyond you repeating and claiming some sort of superior knowledge of theme decks?
You want them to discontinue an immensely popular product to make something you want for yourself? Based on an idea you have about them putting the cart before the horse. A belief you've done nothing to support beyond pointing at correlations you've decided exist?
Core Sets have always sucked. They are boring, sold poorly, and polled poorly. They were discontinued for a reason.
Why do the major spring release commander decks have to be shard themed? You keep repeating that with zero explanation. It makes zero sense for that product (the cart) to lead the entire line of products around it (the horse.)
Why does number of new cards literally mean anything here? It's just a random data point that you keep insisting has any meaning.
Maybe Wizards of the Coast has had much more success analyzing their ability to make a ridiculous amount of money while growing their product than you have. Who knows? (Hint: they do).
Please, yet again, feel free to back up your wild claims.
I am discontinuing the idea of a major commander release not discontinuing the decks themselves.
Look at past major commander releases that had 5 decks. Wedge, Shard, Mono, Enemy, 4 color, 3 years of 4 decks, Wedge, Enemy, Shard. I mention shards because that is what the new capenna commander decks are. Shards. WOTC could have made a non-ravnica like set, and created 5 decks with a mixture of Mono, Enemy, Ally, Shard, Wedge, 4 color, or 5 color decks, that fit the themes and mechanics of the set. Kind of like Lorwyn. It has a mono white deck, a blue white deck, a black red deck, a 5 color deck, and a black green deck.
I mention the number of new cards in the commander deck, and the price because there is no difference between a major commander deck released in spring compared to the ones released in winter. Tell me. What is so different between the Strixhaven commander decks and the commander decks of the d&d set, both innistrad sets, and kamigawa, in terms of number of new cards and the price of each deck? None. So why even have major commander releases?
You also don't understand. I never said replace the major commander release with a core set. Either discontinue the idea of a major commander release, the ones that affect the set and plane they are aligned with, or bring back core sets while keeping the idea of a major commander release.
By discontinuing the major commander release, each set can have 3 commander decks. The idea of saying that all 5 decks for Commander 2023 is 4 color, or mono color, or wedge color, would be gone.
Bring back the idea of a core set, in this case, a set not associated with a plane means your major commander release don't have to have 5 legendaries from one plane. Not only that, you can say that all 5 decks can be shard decks without having the idea of shard colors in the world building and story of the associated plane.
Why can't I use historical trends of the annual commander decks and every set associated precon? The spring commander decks traces its lineage to both the annual commander decks, as referenced in Gavin's article saying the annual commander decks changed from August to April of each year, and the set associated precons, as referenced in that same article stating planeswalker decks are replaced by Commander decks.
A third option other than turn the spring set into a core set or get rid of the idea of a major commander release is to have all 4 standard sets release 2 commander decks, while the major commander release releases with an annual commander legends set. That way, the descendant of Commander 2013 and the descendant of intro packs of the spring set of that year won't be the same product, but 2 separate products.
The major commander release, and a standard set with an associated plane needs to stay separate. I don't want spring sets be limited to certain kinds of sets or certain kinds of planes just to make it work with the major Commander release.
The results of the influence of the major commander releases to the stories of he spring sets are Ikoria's triomes, Strixhaven schools, and Capenna's crime families. There is absolutely no way that WOTC is thinking to make a shard set without thinking that Commander 2022 is shards.
You still haven't answered whether people like multicolor faction sets because of the cards or because of the story.
You can have a set similar to Capenna, except that it is a core set, set in no particular plane, and the 5 legendary creatures from each commander deck be from different planes. All cards functionally identical except references to capenna are removed and replaced with references to various other planes. Would people buy this set? All that's changed is the lack of plane and how the story is told. All cards would be identical.
That is how set associated precons are built. It hasn't changed since Tempest.
I am discontinuing the idea of a major commander release not discontinuing the decks themselves.
Look at past major commander releases that had 5 decks. Wedge, Shard, Mono, Enemy, 4 color, 3 years of 4 decks, Wedge, Enemy, Shard. I mention shards because that is what the new capenna commander decks are. Shards. WOTC could have made a non-ravnica like set, and created 5 decks with a mixture of Mono, Enemy, Ally, Shard, Wedge, 4 color, or 5 color decks, that fit the themes and mechanics of the set. Kind of like Lorwyn. It has a mono white deck, a blue white deck, a black red deck, a 5 color deck, and a black green deck.
I mention the number of new cards in the commander deck, and the price because there is no difference between a major commander deck released in spring compared to the ones released in winter. Tell me. What is so different between the Strixhaven commander decks and the commander decks of the d&d set, both innistrad sets, and kamigawa, in terms of number of new cards and the price of each deck? None. So why even have major commander releases?
You also don't understand. I never said replace the major commander release with a core set. Either discontinue the idea of a major commander release, the ones that affect the set and plane they are aligned with, or bring back core sets while keeping the idea of a major commander release.
By discontinuing the major commander release, each set can have 3 commander decks. The idea of saying that all 5 decks for Commander 2023 is 4 color, or mono color, or wedge color, would be gone.
Bring back the idea of a core set, in this case, a set not associated with a plane means your major commander release don't have to have 5 legendaries from one plane. Not only that, you can say that all 5 decks can be shard decks without having the idea of shard colors in the world building and story of the associated plane.
Why can't I use historical trends to say that as long as here are 5 decks, they all must be shards, wedge, mono, ally, or enemy?
They make precons to fit the themes of the set, not the other way around. It would make zero sense to do so the other way.
Why discontinue a product that sells so well? Especially when the alternative commander decks sell so poorly? Do you not understand how making money works?
What does listing previous precons/ commander decks do to establish your belief that commander releases warp the design of the sets around them? It's just more junk data.
Why not have them? They sell much better than the other products you listed.
You keep repeating that the major commander decks are affecting design but you have produced nothing to support that.
That idea is only a rule to you. They don't have to do that that way simply because you are seeing a pattern you don't understand and ascribed meaning to.
The whole point of tying commander decks to planes and sets is to help expand the mechanical depth of sets so that commander decks can be built around their themes. Before this method, most set mechanics and themes simply weren't deep enough for a commander deck. This is done now as a way to solve that issue without polluting standard with too many obvious commander plants.
You are 100% free to do so. I am incapable of stopping you from using poor logic in an attempt to support a flawed concept. You haven't even attempted to explain how it supports your conclusion, you just keep pointing at it and claiming it is the evidence in and of itself. It proves nothing other than your own personal poor deductive skills.
Please feel free to use actual proof of any of your ridiculous claims. Or just keep throwing random data around and not explaining why it supports your idea. I'm sure that has, unfortunately, worked for you at some point in your life.
Again though, if you want to continue discussing this, please do so with actual evidence instead of this stupid conspiracy theory nonsense. I came back because, like many people with stupid ideas online, you decided to just claim that I am a troll for bot inherently agreeing with you. I will not be debasing myself by pretending you are capable of having this discussion. You wanna repeat yourself over and over again? Have fun, kid.
They make precons to fit the themes of the set, not the other way around. It would make zero sense to do so the other way.
I never said that sets were built around set associated precons. Just the 3 latest spring sets, and not the entire set is built from the commander decks, just some influence of the commander decks have on the set. Usually when precons are made, you don't assign color to them first. The theme is assigned to it, then the colors. Ikoria, Strixhaven, and Capenna Commander decks have its colors preassigned, so the themes and mechanics have to match those colors.
Why discontinue a product that sells so well? Especially when the alternative commander decks sell so poorly? Do you not understand how making money works?
So Kamigawa, Innistrad and D&D commander decks sold poorly compared to Strixhaven? I guess people like the fact that there are 5 decks in the set instead of 2, then if that was the case, why not have every set have 5 decks? The ones from Kamigawa, Innistrad and D&D are built the same way. Same number of new cards, same price.
What does listing previous precons/ commander decks do to establish your belief that commander releases warp the design of the sets around them? It's just more junk data.
It's not junk data as long as the idea of a major commander release still exists. If it didn't exist, then yeah, maybe WOTC wanted to make a shard set, but I believe Capenna is a shard set because Commander 2022 is a set of 5 shard decks, that is if there are still major commander releases.
Why not have them? They sell much better than the other products you listed.
Have what? The product I listed are core sets with a major commander release, getting rid of major commander releases, and have the spring set be just like the fall, winter, and summer sets, or having the major commander release tied to commander legends, and not a standard set. I fail to see how this would make any less money. Same or more commander decks. You have not explained whether people hate core sets because of the lack of a plane, or is it because the set is not as complex and has bad cards.
A combination of all the major Commander precons and the set associated precons would suggest it is way easier to just make a Ravnica style set just to make sure that, in Capenna's case, all 5 Commander Decks are shard colors because as history suggests, with major commander releases, and with no exceptions, so far, all must be either mono, enemy, ally, shard, wedge, or 4 color. There is never a mix of any of the 6 I mentioned.
The whole point of tying commander decks to planes and sets is to help expand the mechanical depth of sets so that commander decks can be built around their themes. Before this method, most set mechanics and themes simply weren't deep enough for a commander deck. This is done now as a way to solve that issue without polluting standard with too many obvious commander plants.
Then why dedicate one set to be a major commander release? Why can't all 4 sets have 3 Commander decks each? Why not have a dedicated Commander Legends set with the major Commander release instead of tying it with a standard set? Some of us don't like the idea that all 5 major Commander release legendaries are from the same plane. I do have this to say. If you bought one deck from each set in the year, technically all the characters from the 4 decks you bought would have been from different planes. It's too bad we won't see obscure characters from a plane we will never visit, or an old character.
Explain to me, why has every Commander deck release that had 5 decks been all shards, wedges, ally, mono, enemy, or 4 color, and not any combination? Why?
Capenna didn't have to be all shards and have a shard theme It could be about something else, and have themes for 5 decks. The 5 decks could be mono white, blue green, blue black red, white black red green, and 5 color deck. That's how the years with 4 Commander Decks were, and pretty much every time we had Theme Decks. Even with Intro Packs, it wasn't always all enemy or ally color, although the intro pack were all color balanced, that is one set didn't have intro packs featuring more of one color over the other.
If people like uniform all wedge, or all shard major commander releases instead of the 4 deck mix of 2 color, or 3 color decks we had for Commander 2017, 2018, and 2019, then wouldn't the decks, let's take Commander 2022, and it being all shards, then be preassigned as shard decks? Therefore, if the Commander Decks being shard decks are based on themes and mechanics of the set, then wouldn't the set have to be a shard set?
If there is a demand for nephilim decks for Commander 2023, then it would have an influence on it's set being a nephilim set, or a nephilim subtheme. If the Commander players wanted shard commander decks for the major commander release, but Standard players didn't want a reskin of Alara for their spring set, how would you create that set?
You always say that my data of using all the set associated precons and every commander deck released don't mean a thing. I used that data to suggest to you why Capenna is all Shards. Maybe people like it when it's all shards instead of being a mix. As for the set associated precons. It is shown that if you want your decks to have preassigned colors, you are better off making Ravnica style sets. In a set like Scars of Mirrodin, the themes of the 5 intro packs are Myr, Metalcraft, Proliferate, Artifact destruction, and Infect. You can't just pick color combinations, let's say, all ally color, and hope all 5 of those themes fit. The point is to showcase the themes as best as possible. For a set like Khans of Tarkir, your themes for the 5 decks are Abzan, Jeskai, Sultai, Mardu, and Temur. Abzan is Black Green White, so it's intro pack is black green white. We can reverse this and say if we want a Black Green White intro pack, then we can insert the Abzan theme into it. Unlike if we tried it with Scars of Mirrodin, and took black red for example, that color combination may not best showcase any of the themes compared to if it was whatever the 5 intro packs used.
They make precons to fit the themes of the set, not the other way around. It would make zero sense to do so the other way.
I never said that sets were built around set associated precons. Just the 3 latest spring sets, and not the entire set is built from the commander decks, just some influence of the commander decks have on the set. Usually when precons are made, you don't assign color to them first. The theme is assigned to it, then the colors. Ikoria, Strixhaven, and Capenna Commander decks have its colors preassigned, so the themes and mechanics have to match those colors.
Why discontinue a product that sells so well? Especially when the alternative commander decks sell so poorly? Do you not understand how making money works?
So Kamigawa, Innistrad and D&D commander decks sold poorly compared to Strixhaven? I guess people like the fact that there are 5 decks in the set instead of 2, then if that was the case, why not have every set have 5 decks? The ones from Kamigawa, Innistrad and D&D are built the same way. Same number of new cards, same price.
What does listing previous precons/ commander decks do to establish your belief that commander releases warp the design of the sets around them? It's just more junk data.
It's not junk data as long as the idea of a major commander release still exists. If it didn't exist, then yeah, maybe WOTC wanted to make a shard set, but I believe Capenna is a shard set because Commander 2022 is a set of 5 shard decks, that is if there are still major commander releases.
Why not have them? They sell much better than the other products you listed.
Have what? The product I listed are core sets with a major commander release, getting rid of major commander releases, and have the spring set be just like the fall, winter, and summer sets, or having the major commander release tied to commander legends, and not a standard set. I fail to see how this would make any less money. Same or more commander decks. You have not explained whether people hate core sets because of the lack of a plane, or is it because the set is not as complex and has bad cards.
A combination of all the major Commander precons and the set associated precons would suggest it is way easier to just make a Ravnica style set just to make sure that, in Capenna's case, all 5 Commander Decks are shard colors because as history suggests, with major commander releases, and with no exceptions, so far, all must be either mono, enemy, ally, shard, wedge, or 4 color. There is never a mix of any of the 6 I mentioned.
The whole point of tying commander decks to planes and sets is to help expand the mechanical depth of sets so that commander decks can be built around their themes. Before this method, most set mechanics and themes simply weren't deep enough for a commander deck. This is done now as a way to solve that issue without polluting standard with too many obvious commander plants.
Then why dedicate one set to be a major commander release? Why can't all 4 sets have 3 Commander decks each? Why not have a dedicated Commander Legends set with the major Commander release instead of tying it with a standard set? Some of us don't like the idea that all 5 major Commander release legendaries are from the same plane. I do have this to say. If you bought one deck from each set in the year, technically all the characters from the 4 decks you bought would have been from different planes. It's too bad we won't see obscure characters from a plane we will never visit, or an old character.
Explain to me, why has every Commander deck release that had 5 decks been all shards, wedges, ally, mono, enemy, or 4 color, and not any combination? Why?
Capenna didn't have to be all shards and have a shard theme It could be about something else, and have themes for 5 decks. The 5 decks could be mono white, blue green, blue black red, white black red green, and 5 color deck. That's how the years with 4 Commander Decks were, and pretty much every time we had Theme Decks. Even with Intro Packs, it wasn't always all enemy or ally color, although the intro pack were all color balanced, that is one set didn't have intro packs featuring more of one color over the other.
If people like uniform all wedge, or all shard major commander releases instead of the 4 deck mix of 2 color, or 3 color decks we had for Commander 2017, 2018, and 2019, then wouldn't the decks, let's take Commander 2022, and it being all shards, then be preassigned as shard decks? Therefore, if the Commander Decks being shard decks are based on themes and mechanics of the set, then wouldn't the set have to be a shard set?
If there is a demand for nephilim decks for Commander 2023, then it would have an influence on it's set being a nephilim set, or a nephilim subtheme. If the Commander players wanted shard commander decks for the major commander release, but Standard players didn't want a reskin of Alara for their spring set, how would you create that set?
You always say that my data of using all the set associated precons and every commander deck released don't mean a thing. I used that data to suggest to you why Capenna is all Shards. Maybe people like it when it's all shards instead of being a mix. As for the set associated precons. It is shown that if you want your decks to have preassigned colors, you are better off making Ravnica style sets. In a set like Scars of Mirrodin, the themes of the 5 intro packs are Myr, Metalcraft, Proliferate, Artifact destruction, and Infect. You can't just pick color combinations, let's say, all ally color, and hope all 5 of those themes fit. The point is to showcase the themes as best as possible. For a set like Khans of Tarkir, your themes for the 5 decks are Abzan, Jeskai, Sultai, Mardu, and Temur. Abzan is Black Green White, so it's intro pack is black green white. We can reverse this and say if we want a Black Green White intro pack, then we can insert the Abzan theme into it. Unlike if we tried it with Scars of Mirrodin, and took black red for example, that color combination may not best showcase any of the themes compared to if it was whatever the 5 intro packs used.
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Then you have Ikoria. Ikoria has your mono color theme booster, and wedge color commander decks. Each deck has specific themes that fit the Ikoria themes and mechanics. I remember one was all about keyword mechanics, and the another was all about the mutate mechanic. The storyline of Ikoria did not have to mention that the Commander Decks were wedged colors, like I don't know, the triomes, but it did.
So I will keep asking this, why does Ikoria have the Wedge color triomes, and why does Strixhaven and New Capenna have non-mono color theme boosters, unlike every other set?
You saying every set is a faction set is like saying every set is an artifact set, or a graveyard set, or a horror set just because there are zombies in Mirrodin or Vampires in Zendikar. I forgot to mention the prerelease kits. Why does Strixhaven and New Capenna have faction based prerelease kits while for the other sets, everybody gets the same prerelease kit?
Ikoria is a faction set. It was also a Wedge set, with wedges being one of the most frequent requests. Strixhaven was an enemy color set. Also heavily requested. Capenna has a shard theme, also heavily requested.
Multicolor is by and far the most commonly revisited theme, and literally part of the core of the game.
You're spinning out about nothing.
Mechanically, the factions are tradition as shown through enchantment centric cards, and modernity, shown through artifact centric cards. These were split mostly by color, with green and white having a heavier traditional side, red and blue having a heavier modern side, and black being somewhere in the middle. Story wise, the factions are split pretty distinctly by color, although some (like the rebels) straddled multiple colors, while others (like the Okiba gang) did not.
Why are these sets in the Spring? Don't you think it is because of Commander that the idea of Wedge, Shard, Ally color, Enemy Color, and Mono Color matters sets are highly requested? Wouldn't that mean that the Spring sets are the way they are because of Commander? You also have no idea what a faction set is. A faction set is a set that being in a sub group matters more than everything else. Odyssey has the 5 factions. The Order, the Cephalids, the Cabal, the Pardic Mountains, and the Krosan Forest. The idea of these factions is very minimal, as Odyssey is a graveyard matters set. Ravnica's factions are all front and center to the point that that is the entire theme of every set with the word Ravnica in it.
Ikoria is not a faction set. It has a wedge subtheme, but it is only there because of it's set associated Commander decks. WOTC could have easily made Ikoria a pure "make monsters" set, and it wouldn't have been any different with or without a Wedge subtheme. The Wedge subtheme is only there because of Commander, and I highly doubt those who do not care about Commander are demanding a Wedge set.
Here is another reason why I think Commander has an influence on the Spring sets. The idea of the major commander release. Why does a major commander release even exist? Why not have each set come with 3 Commander decks? It used to make sense to have a major Commander release because back then, those things came out once a year, not to mention that ever since WOTC removed the cheap Commander deck option, all Commander decks now have the same number of new cards, regardless if those decks are your major release commander decks or not.
Either do away with the major Commander release, or keep the major Commander release, but that release has to go with a Core Set.
They release in the spring because there are only 4 options for seasons to release within. No I don't think crazy random things based purely off of coincidence and your need to see patterns where they do not exist. Commander is one of the factors involved, but multicolor sets have been popular for much, much longer than commander has been popular for. Odyssey is irrelevant here, although I do agree it is not a faction set.
Ikoria is definitely a faction set. It has the borders, using +1/+1 counters and ability counters. It has the monsters using mutate. It has the human tribal themes. These themes matter more than the other parts of the set. It is also a Wedge set. This is clearly baked into the design, and why things like colorless cycling, triomes, and hybrid mana are so prolific within the set. The set clearly benefits from the Wedge themes. There was demand for Wedge sets before there was demand for commander products. Planar Chaos had a Wedge theme before commander had even been renamed from EDH.
Your presumptions seem to hinge on the bizarre belief that a 5 deck commander release must happen in the spring, and therefore warps the spring set. They could release the 5 commander decks any time of the year. They are intentionally flexible.
What are you even talking about with "cheap commander deck" nonsense?
Why would they tie their best selling product to one that sold so poorly that it has been discontinued? This makes no sense what so ever.
Cheap Commander Deck? Have you heard of Zendikar Rising and Kaldheim?
Just by saying Ikoria being a Wedge set, much like Strixhaven being a Enemy Color set, or New Capenna being a shard set, you have proven to me that every single Spring set, so as long as we have this whole notion of a major Commander release, that every spring set will either be a Wedge set, Shard set, Ally color set, Enemy Color set, or Mono Color matters set. No Enchantment, Graveyard, Legendary, Artifact, Basic, High mana cost, Low mana cost, keyword abilities, or whatever anyone could think of, that has nothing to do with color, matters set.
Usually my argument that Commander has an influence on the Spring sets would be shot down because Ikoria wasn't a Wedge set, and here you are, saying it is.
Planar chaos, having a wedge theme, because of 5 cards, does not make it a wedge set, much like how Ravnica isn't a 4 color set.
You haven't explained why these color matters sets, and let's say Ikoria is a wedge set, like you say, is released in the Spring, and not in the Fall, Summer, or Winter. There are indeed 4 options, so why just the one option, and not the other three?
You mean the worst selling commander decks of all time? Don't really see why they would make more like those.
You mean like the vast majority of sets ever released? You're basing your bizarre conspiracy theory off of a pattern that doesn't exist and only has three data points. It literally proves nothing. Further, they've done major Commander deck releases before that were not based on color matched factions.
I don't really care what other ways your worthless theory has also been disproven by others.
Planar Chaos dragons were the most popular rares released that year. The set had plenty of supporting enemy color focus to help with it, and draft was designed around it. Did you ever draft Planar Chaos?
Interesting that you bring up Ravnica, which had a whopping 8 multicolor faction sets, and a total of zero coinciding commander decks.
You're looking for a reason to get upset over nothing. You should think more about that than this half baked theory. You may as well be arguing that the moon landing was faked. It would probably make more sense to do that, because at least then you'd have some other logic-innoculated individuals to agree with.
If they have done commander decks before, not related to color based factions, then why are the Spring Commander releases have sets that are tied to the color based factions? Any set could have themes to make 5 decks, but WOTC chooses not to do it. Ravnica had 8 multicolor faction sets, with no Commander decks, but they had Theme Decks, Intro Packs, and Planeswalker decks. Bet you don't know what the themes and mechanics of these decks are all about do you.
So far, it is 3 for 3. It is going to be 4 for 4, 5 for 5, and then 6 for 6 and so on. When we get a Spring set that has Wedge, Ally, Enemy, Mono, or Shard Commander decks, and the set has nothing to do with what the colors of the Commander Decks are, while holding onto the idea of a Major Commander release, then my argument won't hold true. Commander's rules relies on color, you know, the color identity? It would make the most sense that a major commander release's set would have something to do with color.
I doubt that when designing Planar Chaos, WOTC is saying, "let's make a wedge set". If that's the case, it's 4 theme decks would be all Wedge colored, but they're not. Usually the Theme Decks and Intro Packs showcase the themes and mechanics of the set, and if the set is Wedge focused, we'd get Wedge precons. Look at Khans of Tarkir.
All I am saying is, just like Ikoria, Planar Chaos, or any other set not named Alara, Tarkir, Strixhaven, or Capenna, that you can have a color theme to it, without having the entire set's focus be on any number of colored factions. Some of us want to go back to the old Commander precons where the 5 characters have nothing to do with each other. I don't want specific planes to be carbon copies of Ravnica, just change the fact that they aren't guilds but instead they are schools, shards, clans, or crime families.
Let's say I am obsessed with set associated precons, and I pretty much own almost every one of them starting from Nemesis, with the exception of Prophecy, Planeshift, Lorwyn Shadowmoor block, Alara Block, and Zendikar block. I know that for each deck they are based on themes and mechanics from the set. It is no different with the set associated Commander decks. Kamigawa's Commander decks are all about vehicles and modify. So far, with the spring sets being tied to the major commander release, we have color faction sets. It as if WOTC decided that the decks are shard color, and they have to build the set in such a way to have a shard theme, or some sort of subtheme. The easiest way to make sure that your precons are these specific colors, and also be thematically linked to the set is to make the set be color focused. The Commander decks, or intro packs, or theme decks, must all have ally colors, so the easiest way is to make a Ravnica like set.
For color based factions, there is a difference between starting out with one or more colors, and assigning things, places, or gameplay mechanics to it, as opposed to having the gameplay mechanic, thing, or place be assigned a color. An example of the former is anything whose major theme is based on color, and the latter is Innistrad's vampires being red black, or a elves of Lorwyn being black green.
So far, with Strixhaven and New Capenna, the concept is, divide the factions into colors, and put organize places, things, or gameplay mechanics into these colors. If the Commander Decks of a major release have to be certain colors, such as all shard, wedge, ally color, mono color, or enemy color, it would be easy to just make a color based set, and I don't see WOTC changing from this formula. Ikoria had wedge commander decks, but their themes weren't Wedge based. The Symbiotic Swarm isn't a Black Green White matters deck. It is a keyword counters matters deck, or how enhanced evolution isn't a black green blue matters deck, but a mutate matters deck. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure that keyword counters is not limited to the Black Green White wedge, and mutate is not limited to the Black Green Blue wedge. With Strixhaven, whatever them that deck is is is pretty much contained within that one school that deck represents.
As I said, loads of theme decks, intro packs, and Planeswalker decks. Usually, they pick a theme from the set, build a deck, and pick the colors that best suit the theme, but when you have to have the Commander decks be a specific color, you kind of have to build a color based set to make those Commander decks work, and I don't see how WOTC can do any different.
All I'm saying is, with New Capenna, WOTC could have made it not about color, and instead be like Kamigawa, or Innistrad. Pick 5 themes from the set, and build decks around it, and then assign the color of that deck that makes the most sense, instead of saying that the deck has to be certain colors. WOTC has done it for years with Intro Packs and Theme Decks, but why would they do that? Those kinds of sets and Commander precons are reserved for the non-major Commander releases in the Summer, Fall, and Winter.
Every new plane is going in the Spring is going to be wasted because something about it has to line up with the fact that the Commander release has to be a Wedge, Shard, Ally color, Enemy color, or Mono color set. It isn't to say that WOTC has to make all ally color decks or wedge decks. They have done so in 2017 to 2019, but for Commander 2020 and beyond, they wanted to go back to all wedge, all shard etc. Here's my prediction. Spring 2023 set is a world with discrimination where people discriminate against people who don't use their color of mana, and everybody in that world is born with the ability to use one color of mana. Spring 2024 set is a plane where you have your allied colors and each ally color is a job in the world.
Just think. What do you think is easier if the Spring 2023 major Commander release has to be allied color. Make an Allied color matters set, or make a set, and hope the themes and mechanics happen to line up with the allied colors? Why would WOTC want to do anything the hard way? They couldn't even come up with 5 themes to make 5 Kamigawa Neon Dynasty Commander Decks.
You keep on saying this is a conspiracy, but ever since set associated precons existed, they are meant to show the themes and mechanics of the set, and if a precon has to be a specific color, like Red White, there is no choice but to make a red white based theme in the set just so the precon can fit that theme. Strixhaven is a enemy color school theme, because if it was anything else, it would be difficult to ensure that all 5 commander decks would be enemy color. This is even more so if the decks have to be wedge, shard, or nephilim colors. Any set associated precons with Wedge, or Shard, is a set in which the Wedge of Shard matters. Years of Theme Decks and Intro Packs suggest that it is kind of difficult to have all ally or enemy color decks in the set without the set being color based.
Theros had those things too, and wasn't color based or a faction set. Bet you don't know the themes of making a coherent claim, do you?
The entire game of magic is based on the color pie. We are almost 100% on magic sets that care about color. Correlation is not causation. Correlation is not causation. Correlation is not causation. Repeating statements doesn't change their validity.
Commander's rules are no more based on color than any other format, minus a minor limitation that honestly barely matters in 99% of cases.
Wait, so should theme decks and ancillary products match the sets themes or not? Pick a side.
Yes, some sets push harder with different aspects of their themes than others. That doesn't make them not core themes of the sets. Nobody really cares what you want, and especially not about what your shallow perceptions of things are. Yawn.
I promise you that your obsession is harming your case here more than helping it. There is no logical basis for believing that they are choosing the entire trajectory of a group of products to fit into the boxes of one of them. It makes no sense on amy level to do so.
How many cards in Ravnica actually care about what colors you play? Or Alara? Or Tarkir? You're not making sense here.
You keep alluding to them "having to have commander decks be certain colors" but have at no point done anything to explain where that belief comes from. They don't have to be anything. You're inventing this random trait and running an entire rant filled conspiracy post with it. It's pretty sad.
They could have made New Capenna about homarids vs banding if they felt like it. Instead they chose one of the most popular and oft requested themes. Gee, go figure.
How is it a "wasted" set for them to align with the most popular themes that almost every set falls into regardless? Why do commander decks, which have multiple times not met that pattern, have to fit that pattern? You're not establishing anything as a fact. You're just making claims based on coincidence, conspiracy, and falsehoods reinforced purely on anecdotes, poor logic, and repeating yourself.
Ah yes, the people releasing over 80 products a year, and selling one of them most popular table top games on the planet are just lazy. They are beholden to an unbreakable commander release schedule that is codified into law.
Just think. What makes more sense: that they warp more than a dozen different products to fit a self.imposed rule about both release schedules and color identity, or that a pattern of three is not a pattern?
But of course, if you just thought, we wouldn't be having this discussion and all the educational opportunities that come with it. I wouldn't want you to be left having nothing to complain about, let alone any of the valid and logical complaints to be had about this game, so maybe it's best if you continue not thinking.
Edit: I'm done hijacking this thread, and you should be too. If you have any further weird assumptions, misconceptions, and/ or pointless conspiracies to discuss, please do so with my message box.
I realized that all you said had no mention of the storyline. It's all gameplay.
The idea of a plane only makes sense in a story perspective, not gameplay. If you care about gameplay, like what most of your arguments are all about, then it doesn't matter which cards are from which plane, but because Strixhaven's Commander decks have to be enemy color, there has to be an enemy color theme in the story. In other sets, the idea of colored factions isn't as pronounced as in Strixhaven or New Capenna. Ikoria Triomes, Strixhaven schools, and New Capenna crime families are story elements. These elements exist because the Commander Decks have to be certain colors. The Ikoria, Strixhaven, and New Capenna Commander decks being all wedge, enemy color, and shard colors respectively is the same reason why Commander 2011 is all wedge, 2013 is all shard, 2014 is all mono color, 2015 is all enemy color, and 2016 is all colors but one.
My idea to have the core set coincide with the main commander release is to have the story focus on 5 characters, not on a single plane, so each plane's storyline concept won't be a carbon copy of, here are 5 places or factions, with their color identities. You'd also have to see that with the popularity of Commander, the idea of wanting a Wedge or Shard set would increase, but that is only to get the multicolor cards.
So you're telling me that a Core set filled with shard or wedge cards is not as desirable as a plane focused on shards or wedges? Are people demanding shard and wedge cards, or a plane that is shard or wedge themed?
What part of "hey let's not effing hijack a thread" is difficult for you to understand? I skimmed this post at best. This is blatantly not what the thread is about, it's just you jumping to poorly based conclusions using random, unrelated data points, and unproven assumptions while I try to use common sense. If you want to discuss this further, please do so with my inbox rather than take up entire pages of a thread. We don't need an entire thread dedicated to how incorrect your logic here is. Your initial post about it summed that up all on it's own. If you'd like to discuss this further with me on this thread, feel free to use actual evidence instead of bizarre conclusions from unrelated data. That would be a nice change of pace. Lacking that, this is really just spam. It's literally you presenting your gut instinct and poor reasoning skills as hard facts.
You keep on saying 3 data points. Are you going to say someone is definitely, for sure, wrong just because they say that there is going to be 5 set associated Commander Decks in the Spring 2023 set?
Every time WOTC has released 5 Commander decks at once, all of them are either Mono color, enemy color, wedge, shard, or 4 color. There was never a mix of any of these. That is 8 data points.
Commander 2011
Commander 2013
Commander 2014
Commander 2015
Commander 2016
Ikoria Commander
Strixhaven Commander
Streets of New Capenna Commander.
There are 14 data points of sets based on factions whose precons are themed after the factions.
Ravnica City of Guilds
Guildpact
Dissension
Shards of Alara
Conflux
Return to Ravnica
Gatecrash
Dragon's Maze
Khans of Tarkir
Dragons of Tarkir
Guilds of Ravnica
Ravnica Allegiance
Strixhaven
Streets of New Capenna
WOTC could keep the same themes used to make the Commander Decks from Ikoria to the current set, and have them be Theme Decks, Intro Packs or Planeswalker decks. Likewise, they could also keep the same themes used to make the Theme Decks, Intro Packs, and Planeswalker Decks, and make them into Commander Decks. With that in mind, as long as there are 5 Commander decks in the set, for some reason, they have to be all of same color combination type, such as all ally color, all wedges etc, and since these decks are tied to sets, and with what the Theme Decks, Intro Packs, Planeswalker Deck, and set associated Commander Decks themes are, it would be safe to assume that because every Spring set is associated with the Major Commander release and every Commander release with 5 decks has to be only one type of color combinations, such as all wedges, as shown by 8 data points not 3, it is easier to make a faction based set, like the Guilds of Ravnica, Shards of Alara, Schools of Strixhaven, Khans of Tarkir, or Crime Families of Capenna.
If you were to make a set knowing that the set associated Commander decks had to be all 5 shard based colors, there is no way you would create a set where there is no reference to any shard colors anywhere. Likewise, if you created a set, and you wanted the set associated Commander decks to best showcase the set, like Theme Decks and Intro Packs did before, history has shown that unless the set is color themed, chances are you are going to get a mix of mono, 2 color, 3 color, ally, wedge, shard, or enemy color decks. Shards of Alara was a Shard set, and it's intro packs are based on each shard because that is what the set is. For New Capenna, WOTC knows that the Commander Decks are shard based, so they had to build the set, gameplay, world, storyline, with a shard theme, or else the Commander Decks won't fit. That is how it is going to be every spring, and that is with using every single Commander Deck release in existence, that came in groups of 5, and how WOTC released every set associated precon ever.
If as you say, we are getting a shard set because people wanted shard cards, WOTC could have achieved the same result, and released a set of 5 Commander Decks similar to how they did in 2013, and release a Core set alongside it with some Shard sub themes, but no, there has to be a plane attached to it with heavy shard themes.
That sure is a lot of random data that doesn't support anything. You're just finding patterns in unrelated things to support an idea that doesn't exist, wouldn't effect anything if it did, and is not even tangents supported the way you think it is. You're baselessly applying an intent to random dates and facts you jammed together. I genuinely feel sorry that you believe that your posts have been coherent or intelligent. Doubly so that you believe so with such conviction that you managed to seed needless condescension through out.
This is spam my dude. It has nothing to do with the actual topic. It is a tangent that is at best adjacent to the topic, and in all reality is just some random conspiracy theory that you have chosen to take over amy rational discussion of the actual topic at hand. If you have any evidence of such a theory beyond your circumstantial observations, feel free to present them. It seems like you're basing all of this on some unsupported assumptions about what they "have" to do, without establishing any basis for believing that they have to do these things. You just keep repeating the most easily reputable part over and over as the evidence for the rest of your points. I'm really not sure that you have actually read through your posts here or not.
But hey, of your goal is to get the Last Word, congrats. You aren't making any attempts to establish your claims, so I will take no further attempts at refuting them. You've pretty much got that covered.
Set associated precons are precons that take a theme or mechanic and build a deck around it.
New Capenna Commander decks traces its lineage with the annual Commander release started with Commander 2013. It also traces its lineage with every single set associated precon that came before.
Ikoria, Strixhaven, and New Capenna Commander decks is trying to be both the annual major Commander release and the set's associated precon, when it should only be one of the two.
My belief is that WOTC decided to have 2022's Commander decks be shard, so that means to have the themes and mechanics of the set make sense with the set associated precon, the set has to be shard themed. There is zero chance that the Commander decks have zero influence on what the set is.
Then again, it is easy to refute my claims saying that my data does not count, especially when you probably don't follow precon releases for the past 15 to 20 years like I have.
I am right here agreeing with the complaints that the new Capenna set is affecting the 2022 major commander release, while at the same time, I state that the 2022 major Commander release is affecting what the set here. You then jump in and started the derailment by stating that every set was a faction set, when only Ravnica, Alara, Tarkir, Strixhaven, and Capenna are faction sets, much so that it is baked into the story.
Capenna is a spring set with the major Commander release. I am having discussions over "Commander 2022" having an effect over what Capenna is, and pretty much the same goes for every spring set. Either WOTC has to make a colored faction set, with colored factions as its main theme, or they, through the world building, have to mention the color identities of the Commander decks.
Commander 2022 are shard decks.
Take the idea of the shard and build a set around it. Add themes and mechanics to those shards.
Using those themes and mechanics from those shards, build the commander decks.
There is no way that WOTC suddenly wanted to make New Capenna a shard set without thinking about the 2022 major Commander release.
You literally didn't do any of that. You stated your opinions and specifically avoided explaining them. You just keep insisting that the entirety of design is putting the cart before the horse. If you're getting angrier and angrier at each of my posts, then you're over investing.
Honestly, I believe the person trolling here is definitely the one insisting that a poorly observed correlation is evidence of causation, and that over a dozen products, most of which sell better than commander decks, are designed to confirm to the commander decks, without even attempting to provide any reason or logic as to why they are doing so. And throughout the entire conversation, you've peppered your posts with condescension and an unfounded belief that your monomaniacal obsession with theme decks somehow gives you any special knowledge about them. Like, when you mentioned that I probably haven't followed theme decks for the last 15-20 years. For all you know, I have all of them in a hermetically sealed vault. It speaks volumes about how you use your own assumptions to confirm your own assumptions. My assumption is that you haven't followed them closely for 15-20 years. Mostly because I don't believe that you are old enough to have done so.
Do you believe that Odyssey is a graveyard set because they had to make a black-red theme deck that used the threshold mechanic? Geez, the rares in white-blue one were a nomad and a cephalid. No wonder we didn't get any soldiers or merfolk; they designed the set to match the theme deck.
Please, Tommy Gun was my father. Call me Tom Weapon.
That's not what I said. Every set associated precon has decks designed with the set in mind. This isn't the case with the last 3 spring sets. There is some influence that the Commander decks have, usually the color identity, on the set because they are the major Commander release.
What I want WOTC to do is discontinue the major Commander release, and have each set release 3 Commander decks instead, or have the spring set be a core set.
Getting rid of the major commander release means that the decks can be built like every single set associated precon, where the deck is based on the set, and the set isn't influenced by the precons.
Turning the spring set into a core set means that the major commander release won't have legendaries all from the same plane.
As it stands, the spring set is affecting the major commander release, and the major commander release is affecting the spring set.
Kamigawa Neon Dynasty Commander decks lineage is the Planeswalker decks, Intro Packs, and Theme decks that came before them. Capenna comnander decks lineage is the same plus the annual Commander decks that came before. WOTC needs to decide if they are set associated precons or a major Commander release, not both. The reason we have shard theme Capenna is because 2022 major Comnander decks have to be all shards.
Why even have a major commander release when all comnander decks have the same number of new cards regardless of which set it is from?
It made sense 2 years ago because the major commander decks had more new cards and cost more than the non, major ones. Now there is no difference.
Maybe the spring 2023 set won't be influenced by its commander decks because WOTC realizes that there is no point in major commander releases anymore.
You keep repeating that first point without anything to back it up. What actual evidence or corroborating information do you have to support it, beyond you repeating and claiming some sort of superior knowledge of theme decks?
You want them to discontinue an immensely popular product to make something you want for yourself? Based on an idea you have about them putting the cart before the horse. A belief you've done nothing to support beyond pointing at correlations you've decided exist?
Core Sets have always sucked. They are boring, sold poorly, and polled poorly. They were discontinued for a reason.
Why do the major spring release commander decks have to be shard themed? You keep repeating that with zero explanation. It makes zero sense for that product (the cart) to lead the entire line of products around it (the horse.)
Why does number of new cards literally mean anything here? It's just a random data point that you keep insisting has any meaning.
Maybe Wizards of the Coast has had much more success analyzing their ability to make a ridiculous amount of money while growing their product than you have. Who knows? (Hint: they do).
Please, yet again, feel free to back up your wild claims.
Look at past major commander releases that had 5 decks. Wedge, Shard, Mono, Enemy, 4 color, 3 years of 4 decks, Wedge, Enemy, Shard. I mention shards because that is what the new capenna commander decks are. Shards. WOTC could have made a non-ravnica like set, and created 5 decks with a mixture of Mono, Enemy, Ally, Shard, Wedge, 4 color, or 5 color decks, that fit the themes and mechanics of the set. Kind of like Lorwyn. It has a mono white deck, a blue white deck, a black red deck, a 5 color deck, and a black green deck.
I mention the number of new cards in the commander deck, and the price because there is no difference between a major commander deck released in spring compared to the ones released in winter. Tell me. What is so different between the Strixhaven commander decks and the commander decks of the d&d set, both innistrad sets, and kamigawa, in terms of number of new cards and the price of each deck? None. So why even have major commander releases?
You also don't understand. I never said replace the major commander release with a core set. Either discontinue the idea of a major commander release, the ones that affect the set and plane they are aligned with, or bring back core sets while keeping the idea of a major commander release.
By discontinuing the major commander release, each set can have 3 commander decks. The idea of saying that all 5 decks for Commander 2023 is 4 color, or mono color, or wedge color, would be gone.
Bring back the idea of a core set, in this case, a set not associated with a plane means your major commander release don't have to have 5 legendaries from one plane. Not only that, you can say that all 5 decks can be shard decks without having the idea of shard colors in the world building and story of the associated plane.
Why can't I use historical trends of the annual commander decks and every set associated precon? The spring commander decks traces its lineage to both the annual commander decks, as referenced in Gavin's article saying the annual commander decks changed from August to April of each year, and the set associated precons, as referenced in that same article stating planeswalker decks are replaced by Commander decks.
A third option other than turn the spring set into a core set or get rid of the idea of a major commander release is to have all 4 standard sets release 2 commander decks, while the major commander release releases with an annual commander legends set. That way, the descendant of Commander 2013 and the descendant of intro packs of the spring set of that year won't be the same product, but 2 separate products.
The major commander release, and a standard set with an associated plane needs to stay separate. I don't want spring sets be limited to certain kinds of sets or certain kinds of planes just to make it work with the major Commander release.
The results of the influence of the major commander releases to the stories of he spring sets are Ikoria's triomes, Strixhaven schools, and Capenna's crime families. There is absolutely no way that WOTC is thinking to make a shard set without thinking that Commander 2022 is shards.
You still haven't answered whether people like multicolor faction sets because of the cards or because of the story.
You can have a set similar to Capenna, except that it is a core set, set in no particular plane, and the 5 legendary creatures from each commander deck be from different planes. All cards functionally identical except references to capenna are removed and replaced with references to various other planes. Would people buy this set? All that's changed is the lack of plane and how the story is told. All cards would be identical.
They make precons to fit the themes of the set, not the other way around. It would make zero sense to do so the other way.
Why discontinue a product that sells so well? Especially when the alternative commander decks sell so poorly? Do you not understand how making money works?
What does listing previous precons/ commander decks do to establish your belief that commander releases warp the design of the sets around them? It's just more junk data.
Why not have them? They sell much better than the other products you listed.
You keep repeating that the major commander decks are affecting design but you have produced nothing to support that.
That idea is only a rule to you. They don't have to do that that way simply because you are seeing a pattern you don't understand and ascribed meaning to.
The whole point of tying commander decks to planes and sets is to help expand the mechanical depth of sets so that commander decks can be built around their themes. Before this method, most set mechanics and themes simply weren't deep enough for a commander deck. This is done now as a way to solve that issue without polluting standard with too many obvious commander plants.
You are 100% free to do so. I am incapable of stopping you from using poor logic in an attempt to support a flawed concept. You haven't even attempted to explain how it supports your conclusion, you just keep pointing at it and claiming it is the evidence in and of itself. It proves nothing other than your own personal poor deductive skills.
Please feel free to use actual proof of any of your ridiculous claims. Or just keep throwing random data around and not explaining why it supports your idea. I'm sure that has, unfortunately, worked for you at some point in your life.
Again though, if you want to continue discussing this, please do so with actual evidence instead of this stupid conspiracy theory nonsense. I came back because, like many people with stupid ideas online, you decided to just claim that I am a troll for bot inherently agreeing with you. I will not be debasing myself by pretending you are capable of having this discussion. You wanna repeat yourself over and over again? Have fun, kid.
I never said that sets were built around set associated precons. Just the 3 latest spring sets, and not the entire set is built from the commander decks, just some influence of the commander decks have on the set. Usually when precons are made, you don't assign color to them first. The theme is assigned to it, then the colors. Ikoria, Strixhaven, and Capenna Commander decks have its colors preassigned, so the themes and mechanics have to match those colors.
So Kamigawa, Innistrad and D&D commander decks sold poorly compared to Strixhaven? I guess people like the fact that there are 5 decks in the set instead of 2, then if that was the case, why not have every set have 5 decks? The ones from Kamigawa, Innistrad and D&D are built the same way. Same number of new cards, same price.
It's not junk data as long as the idea of a major commander release still exists. If it didn't exist, then yeah, maybe WOTC wanted to make a shard set, but I believe Capenna is a shard set because Commander 2022 is a set of 5 shard decks, that is if there are still major commander releases.
Have what? The product I listed are core sets with a major commander release, getting rid of major commander releases, and have the spring set be just like the fall, winter, and summer sets, or having the major commander release tied to commander legends, and not a standard set. I fail to see how this would make any less money. Same or more commander decks. You have not explained whether people hate core sets because of the lack of a plane, or is it because the set is not as complex and has bad cards.
Ikoria Triomes
Strixhaven Schools
Capenna Crime Families
A combination of all the major Commander precons and the set associated precons would suggest it is way easier to just make a Ravnica style set just to make sure that, in Capenna's case, all 5 Commander Decks are shard colors because as history suggests, with major commander releases, and with no exceptions, so far, all must be either mono, enemy, ally, shard, wedge, or 4 color. There is never a mix of any of the 6 I mentioned.
Then why dedicate one set to be a major commander release? Why can't all 4 sets have 3 Commander decks each? Why not have a dedicated Commander Legends set with the major Commander release instead of tying it with a standard set? Some of us don't like the idea that all 5 major Commander release legendaries are from the same plane. I do have this to say. If you bought one deck from each set in the year, technically all the characters from the 4 decks you bought would have been from different planes. It's too bad we won't see obscure characters from a plane we will never visit, or an old character.
Explain to me, why has every Commander deck release that had 5 decks been all shards, wedges, ally, mono, enemy, or 4 color, and not any combination? Why?
Capenna didn't have to be all shards and have a shard theme It could be about something else, and have themes for 5 decks. The 5 decks could be mono white, blue green, blue black red, white black red green, and 5 color deck. That's how the years with 4 Commander Decks were, and pretty much every time we had Theme Decks. Even with Intro Packs, it wasn't always all enemy or ally color, although the intro pack were all color balanced, that is one set didn't have intro packs featuring more of one color over the other.
If people like uniform all wedge, or all shard major commander releases instead of the 4 deck mix of 2 color, or 3 color decks we had for Commander 2017, 2018, and 2019, then wouldn't the decks, let's take Commander 2022, and it being all shards, then be preassigned as shard decks? Therefore, if the Commander Decks being shard decks are based on themes and mechanics of the set, then wouldn't the set have to be a shard set?
If there is a demand for nephilim decks for Commander 2023, then it would have an influence on it's set being a nephilim set, or a nephilim subtheme. If the Commander players wanted shard commander decks for the major commander release, but Standard players didn't want a reskin of Alara for their spring set, how would you create that set?
You always say that my data of using all the set associated precons and every commander deck released don't mean a thing. I used that data to suggest to you why Capenna is all Shards. Maybe people like it when it's all shards instead of being a mix. As for the set associated precons. It is shown that if you want your decks to have preassigned colors, you are better off making Ravnica style sets. In a set like Scars of Mirrodin, the themes of the 5 intro packs are Myr, Metalcraft, Proliferate, Artifact destruction, and Infect. You can't just pick color combinations, let's say, all ally color, and hope all 5 of those themes fit. The point is to showcase the themes as best as possible. For a set like Khans of Tarkir, your themes for the 5 decks are Abzan, Jeskai, Sultai, Mardu, and Temur. Abzan is Black Green White, so it's intro pack is black green white. We can reverse this and say if we want a Black Green White intro pack, then we can insert the Abzan theme into it. Unlike if we tried it with Scars of Mirrodin, and took black red for example, that color combination may not best showcase any of the themes compared to if it was whatever the 5 intro packs used.
I don't care enough to read this.
Now we both spammin