… wizards… why the hell did you print a requested character on digital only and not MID or VOW
Who the heck asked for Geralf's old homunculus, last mentioned in the first Innistrad set? This guy was probably dredged off the MID and VOW cutting room floor like the new Gitrog and Ishkanah were.
your kidding right? Pretty much nearly every time a name that pops up on flavor texts or story get requests for a card down the line
It is sad that they create a digital toolbox and then use that to create cards that could have been done in a paper-friendly way. The recent flood of dfc has already made me unhappy enough - literally the only workaround I have for playing these cards in physical magic is to have a second copy of each flip card so I am not constantly fumbling with pulling the cards out of sleeves to flip them.
At the current trajectory of abandoning physical magic for digital - they will eventually run into the situation where the illusion of digital magic is just to play the game when physical isn't available will end. When magic exists as a digital game - they will lose the enfranchisement of the players. When that happens - the everquest/wow myspace/facebook switch will happen. A better game will have the window to succeed and draw the critical number of players from magic.
I see they're continuing the trend of desired cards and characters as Arena exclusives, depriving paper Magic of its fan requests. Between that and the external franchises eroding away the creative integrity of the game, and execution of Vorthos, I'm not so sure.
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
And then theres the deal with having the cards as multiple versions to pick them up in the first place.
You dont just get a card and automatically have all its versions (which would be the reasonable approach) ... no, you get only the Alchemy version out of its own booster product ...
Players can collect rebalanced Alchemy cards in both Alchemy and the adjacent Standard set boosters:
Alchemy boosters will contain the new-to-digital Magic cards, rebalanced cards, and cards from the adjacent Standard set (i.e., Innistrad: Crimson Vow).
When you receive a rebalanced card from an Alchemy booster, you will also receive the Standard version of the card.
The same is true when opening a Standard booster that contains a card that has been rebalanced for Alchemy—you will receive both versions of the card.
Players who have already collected cards that will have an Alchemy version should automatically see both in their collection when Alchemy releases; you will not need to "re-collect" these cards. This will also apply to future Alchemy balance changes.
As a reminder, when you craft or open a booster containing a card rebalanced for Alchemy, you will receive both the Standard and the Alchemy version of the set; you will not need to collect them separately.
… wizards… why the hell did you print a requested character on digital only and not MID or VOW
Who the heck asked for Geralf's old homunculus, last mentioned in the first Innistrad set? This guy was probably dredged off the MID and VOW cutting room floor like the new Gitrog and Ishkanah were.
your kidding right? Pretty much nearly every name that pops up on flavor texts or story get requests for a card down the line
… wizards… why the hell did you print a requested character on digital only and not MID or VOW
Stuff like this shows we can't be missing core sets anymore, this and the other Innistrad legendaries could have been put there rather than be in some strange digital format.
I apologize if I’m missing something but what’s the point of standard in Arena, now?
I would normally say that it’s there so that you technically have a space where you can play with the cards as written but it sounds like most online tournaments moving forward are going to be in alchemy rather than standard and you lose all access to the original card text of cards as soon as they rotate out of standard.
Between being featured in tournaments, having more cards, and generally being designed to cultivate a wide and vibrant array of archetypes… I guess that I’m not really seeing the point of standard other than being an obligatory nod to paper magic.
… wizards… why the hell did you print a requested character on digital only and not MID or VOW
Stuff like this shows we can't be missing core sets anymore, this and the other Innistrad legendaries could have been put there rather than be in some strange digital format.
Not really, even if we had a core set this year they would have likely still wanted to do this set and likely would have still used these characters. Also add besides maybe the gitrog, I think there are more requested characters that would have likely been picked instead when you open up to who can be in core sets. I doubt anyone would say they like to see Ogler over someone like Leshrac.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
… wizards… why the hell did you print a requested character on digital only and not MID or VOW
Stuff like this shows we can't be missing core sets anymore, this and the other Innistrad legendaries could have been put there rather than be in some strange digital format.
Agreed. In fact because of this, I actually began really admiring Core Sets. Core 2020 and 2021 were great.
… wizards… why the hell did you print a requested character on digital only and not MID or VOW
Stuff like this shows we can't be missing core sets anymore, this and the other Innistrad legendaries could have been put there rather than be in some strange digital format.
Wouldn't a Core Set mean something like e. g. one less Innistrad set? That means the Innistrad legendaries we get there would probably be the Thalia reprint and Anje etc. Legendaries they would have cut from MID and VOW due to the lessspace the Core Set afords them in expansions. Still not Gitrog etc.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Wouldn't a Core Set mean something like e. g. one less Innistrad set? That means the Innistrad legendaries we get there would probably be the Thalia reprint and Anje etc. Legendaries they would have cut from MID and VOW due to the lessspace the Core Set afords them in expansions. Still not Gitrog etc.
It would have meant less D&D and pushing back the Brother's War set, though I am fine with an actual Magic product replacing the Core Set if it's a big anniversary like Brother's War.
Not really, even if we had a core set this year they would have likely still wanted to do this set and likely would have still used these characters. Also add besides maybe the gitrog, I think there are more requested characters that would have likely been picked instead when you open up to who can be in core sets. I doubt anyone would say they like to see Ogler over someone like Leshrac.
Yeah....they could have chosen other characters, but did those characters already have cards made and ready? That's the point I was making. Seems like right now they're more interested in making other IP's characters than their own.
Not really, even if we had a core set this year they would have likely still wanted to do this set and likely would have still used these characters. Also add besides maybe the gitrog, I think there are more requested characters that would have likely been picked instead when you open up to who can be in core sets. I doubt anyone would say they like to see Ogler over someone like Leshrac.
Yeah....they could have chosen other characters, but did those characters already have cards made and ready? That's the point I was making. Seems like right now they're more interested in making other IP's characters than their own.[/quote]What? They picked these ones out of the Innistrad trash bin, and worked with it. They made these cards with MID and VOW, and chucked them in various stages of creation. Should they have made new cards wholesale, knowing what happened the last time they did that with the Arena-exclusive Jumpstart?
It is sad that they create a digital toolbox and then use that to create cards that could have been done in a paper-friendly way. The recent flood of dfc has already made me unhappy enough - literally the only workaround I have for playing these cards in physical magic is to have a second copy of each flip card so I am not constantly fumbling with pulling the cards out of sleeves to flip them.
At the current trajectory of abandoning physical magic for digital - they will eventually run into the situation where the illusion of digital magic is just to play the game when physical isn't available will end. When magic exists as a digital game - they will lose the enfranchisement of the players. When that happens - the everquest/wow myspace/facebook switch will happen. A better game will have the window to succeed and draw the critical number of players from magic.
You do know that there are Checklist/Proxy cards in almost every pack in a set with DFC right? There are also clear sleeves in most brands and penny sleeves if you are desperate. It's honestly how *I* choose to play my DFC. It's much easier, less wear and tear on the card, less wear and tear on my fingers (hate getting that little "chip" in my skin that's annoying/painful from sleeving and desleeving) and honestly so much more satisfying to flip the card over than to pull a card out and reverse it. It even works in your favor because you don't have to remember to flip cards back each game, don't run into an issue of "Oh crap. I forgot to flip this around. How do I flip it back without giving my opponent information because I forgot what the front side says" and if you accidentally shuffle a clear-backed sleeve into your deck it kinda stands out so easier to correct that issue as well. But yeah, that's my two cents.
Disclaimer: I haven't played as long as some of you, but I've still been playing around 12 years and will ALWAYS prefer to play in person over Arena or MtGO. That said, I cut WotC a lot of slack because, holy crap, I'm still playing this game 12 years later and have no desire to stop any time soon, despite a lot of the current problems. So I'm not a new player, I prefer paper, BUT...
Now that this has been out a bit and I've had a chance to think about stuff--I still think this is a great idea, but I do have a few issues with implementation. I love the new cards. I think the digital-only mechanics are awesome, and I think buffs/nerfs instead of outright bans is a great idea. I don't think the proliferation of online stuff will kill paper MtG because they make SO MUCH MONEY on the collectible aspects of the game, so I don't think the fact that they can now "fix it in post" means they'll devote less time to designing cards that will be printed (I think the design philosophy is the problem right now, not actually the designers or playtesters, and that's a whole other thing anyway).
I DO think purposefully handicapping the digital version of the game just so it can be identical to the paper version would be lighting money on fire. I DO give people more credit and believe they won't be hopelessly confused between two clearly marked products (same name/art be damned).
Where I see a problem is Historic. Most of the cards are fine as they are in Historic--they don't need to be altered. I also think having a separate Alchemy Historic would be too much. I think the new (not altered) cards should be available in Historic but for existing cards either the original printing should remain or the card should stay banned. But even then it's weird because certain cards could be altered while others couldn't, etc., etc., so I think the way they're doing it still makes the most sense even though I don't like it.
… wizards… why the hell did you print a requested character on digital only and not MID or VOW
Stuff like this shows we can't be missing core sets anymore, this and the other Innistrad legendaries could have been put there rather than be in some strange digital format.
Wouldn't a Core Set mean something like e. g. one less Innistrad set? That means the Innistrad legendaries we get there would probably be the Thalia reprint and Anje etc. Legendaries they would have cut from MID and VOW due to the lessspace the Core Set afords them in expansions. Still not Gitrog etc.
This kind of logic is dangerous here these people are too passionate about what they think would be the alternative whereas there will always be some characters that are left out in general
TBH I'd like to see this fall flat, the digital-only cards didn't make much noise besides Davriel's Withering in some sideboards, and I don't think the reception was too enthusiastic in general...then WOTC doubles down and pushes all of this. I don't mind Standard Alchemy even though I don't think having 2 different versions of the same card running around makes sense but at least you can opt out of the Hearthstone format by sticking to regular paper-based Standard, but if you liked Historic, well, now you're forced to play with the new digital-only BS you didn't ask for just because.
Then I remember Epiphany is still a thing in Standard...how fun, at least I can play Limited in Arena.
All those "Spellbook" mechanic cards could have been perfectly made in Black Border. With a very little tweak instead of conjuring the cards, they could just create a token thats a copy of them exactly like Garth One-Eye and that would resolve all of issues. Then write the cards in a piece of paper and roll a D20 (reroll if exceed) to see what you were going to get.
Tibalt, Wicked Tormentor or the new Garruk seems very fun cards to use, and the idea of a pseudo-extra deck to use seems a very nice idea for casual play. What a pity
You just said for casual play, so why not just do what you're saying? Proxy up some of these with errata'd text and go nuts.
And no, it wouldn't really work outside of casual because (1) not everyone you play against is going to know what all those cards do, so you'd ultimately have to resort to outside information and (2) the process you describe would take serious time, especially for the spellbook cards that are repeatable. They also wouldn't function the same way, as conjuring produces a card, whereas tokens aren't cards and behave differently.
You just said for casual play, so why not just do what you're saying? Proxy up some of these with errata'd text and go nuts.
In fact thats why I was more comfortable if those cards has an actual printing, even in silverborder or acorn or whatever. You're suggesting me to proxy the cards, but that's illegal and problematic if I go to LGS.
And no, it wouldn't really work outside of casual because (1) not everyone you play against is going to know what all those cards do, so you'd ultimately have to resort to outside information
That happens all the time to know what is the exact oracle text of an old card, if didn't receive erratas, or to solve rule issues. Using a smartphone is the last of problems.
the process you describe would take serious time, especially for the spellbook cards that are repeatable.
No, doesn't take much time if you know how to do it.
Yeah I've really been digging it. The cards are crazy nonsense, but in a fun way. And format looks NOTHING like regular Standard, so that's pretty cool. Already thinking they may end up needing to nerf some of the Alchemy cards--especially the cost reducing ones (Geistchanneler and Discover the Forumula are pretty broken)--but that's fine. Also, I was worried about Historic but really the cards they nerfed weren't seeing a ton of play in that format anyway. Seems like mostly the same decks with just a few new ones that have popped up with the addition of Alchemy.
your kidding right? Pretty much nearly every time a name that pops up on flavor texts or story get requests for a card down the line
This trend started with asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar
plus the gitrog only fan has a riot of request for a card is another good example and we know next to none about her
Third example Grux found on flavor text of reject I actually heard people say he’s most likely the next Fblthp, the Lost
At the current trajectory of abandoning physical magic for digital - they will eventually run into the situation where the illusion of digital magic is just to play the game when physical isn't available will end. When magic exists as a digital game - they will lose the enfranchisement of the players. When that happens - the everquest/wow myspace/facebook switch will happen. A better game will have the window to succeed and draw the critical number of players from magic.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I don't think this point stands:
(Source for all quotes cited here: Introducing Alchemy)
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Stuff like this shows we can't be missing core sets anymore, this and the other Innistrad legendaries could have been put there rather than be in some strange digital format.
I would normally say that it’s there so that you technically have a space where you can play with the cards as written but it sounds like most online tournaments moving forward are going to be in alchemy rather than standard and you lose all access to the original card text of cards as soon as they rotate out of standard.
Between being featured in tournaments, having more cards, and generally being designed to cultivate a wide and vibrant array of archetypes… I guess that I’m not really seeing the point of standard other than being an obligatory nod to paper magic.
Not really, even if we had a core set this year they would have likely still wanted to do this set and likely would have still used these characters. Also add besides maybe the gitrog, I think there are more requested characters that would have likely been picked instead when you open up to who can be in core sets. I doubt anyone would say they like to see Ogler over someone like Leshrac.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Wouldn't a Core Set mean something like e. g. one less Innistrad set? That means the Innistrad legendaries we get there would probably be the Thalia reprint and Anje etc. Legendaries they would have cut from MID and VOW due to the lessspace the Core Set afords them in expansions. Still not Gitrog etc.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
It would have meant less D&D and pushing back the Brother's War set, though I am fine with an actual Magic product replacing the Core Set if it's a big anniversary like Brother's War.
Yeah....they could have chosen other characters, but did those characters already have cards made and ready? That's the point I was making. Seems like right now they're more interested in making other IP's characters than their own.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Yeah....they could have chosen other characters, but did those characters already have cards made and ready? That's the point I was making. Seems like right now they're more interested in making other IP's characters than their own.[/quote]What? They picked these ones out of the Innistrad trash bin, and worked with it. They made these cards with MID and VOW, and chucked them in various stages of creation. Should they have made new cards wholesale, knowing what happened the last time they did that with the Arena-exclusive Jumpstart?
You do know that there are Checklist/Proxy cards in almost every pack in a set with DFC right? There are also clear sleeves in most brands and penny sleeves if you are desperate. It's honestly how *I* choose to play my DFC. It's much easier, less wear and tear on the card, less wear and tear on my fingers (hate getting that little "chip" in my skin that's annoying/painful from sleeving and desleeving) and honestly so much more satisfying to flip the card over than to pull a card out and reverse it. It even works in your favor because you don't have to remember to flip cards back each game, don't run into an issue of "Oh crap. I forgot to flip this around. How do I flip it back without giving my opponent information because I forgot what the front side says" and if you accidentally shuffle a clear-backed sleeve into your deck it kinda stands out so easier to correct that issue as well. But yeah, that's my two cents.
Now that this has been out a bit and I've had a chance to think about stuff--I still think this is a great idea, but I do have a few issues with implementation. I love the new cards. I think the digital-only mechanics are awesome, and I think buffs/nerfs instead of outright bans is a great idea. I don't think the proliferation of online stuff will kill paper MtG because they make SO MUCH MONEY on the collectible aspects of the game, so I don't think the fact that they can now "fix it in post" means they'll devote less time to designing cards that will be printed (I think the design philosophy is the problem right now, not actually the designers or playtesters, and that's a whole other thing anyway).
I DO think purposefully handicapping the digital version of the game just so it can be identical to the paper version would be lighting money on fire. I DO give people more credit and believe they won't be hopelessly confused between two clearly marked products (same name/art be damned).
Where I see a problem is Historic. Most of the cards are fine as they are in Historic--they don't need to be altered. I also think having a separate Alchemy Historic would be too much. I think the new (not altered) cards should be available in Historic but for existing cards either the original printing should remain or the card should stay banned. But even then it's weird because certain cards could be altered while others couldn't, etc., etc., so I think the way they're doing it still makes the most sense even though I don't like it.
We can't have nice things it seems, meh
This kind of logic is dangerous here these people are too passionate about what they think would be the alternative whereas there will always be some characters that are left out in general
Then I remember Epiphany is still a thing in Standard...how fun, at least I can play Limited in Arena.
You just said for casual play, so why not just do what you're saying? Proxy up some of these with errata'd text and go nuts.
And no, it wouldn't really work outside of casual because (1) not everyone you play against is going to know what all those cards do, so you'd ultimately have to resort to outside information and (2) the process you describe would take serious time, especially for the spellbook cards that are repeatable. They also wouldn't function the same way, as conjuring produces a card, whereas tokens aren't cards and behave differently.
In fact thats why I was more comfortable if those cards has an actual printing, even in silverborder or acorn or whatever. You're suggesting me to proxy the cards, but that's illegal and problematic if I go to LGS.
That happens all the time to know what is the exact oracle text of an old card, if didn't receive erratas, or to solve rule issues. Using a smartphone is the last of problems.
No, doesn't take much time if you know how to do it.
They are black-bordered.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Yeah I've really been digging it. The cards are crazy nonsense, but in a fun way. And format looks NOTHING like regular Standard, so that's pretty cool. Already thinking they may end up needing to nerf some of the Alchemy cards--especially the cost reducing ones (Geistchanneler and Discover the Forumula are pretty broken)--but that's fine. Also, I was worried about Historic but really the cards they nerfed weren't seeing a ton of play in that format anyway. Seems like mostly the same decks with just a few new ones that have popped up with the addition of Alchemy.
I'd call it a success.