Feel like they should've kept the template "Whenever <condition> the first time each turn, <effect>.". That way it'd read less like a nerf and more like a natural part of the ability and it'd be less disappointing reading the awkward rider at the very end.
Feel like they should've kept the template "Whenever <condition> the first time each turn, <effect>.". That way it'd read less like a nerf and more like a natural part of the ability and it'd be less disappointing reading the awkward rider at the very end.
That would cause sequencing issues. Using that template, if you played Welcoming Vampire after a 2-drop enters the battlefield, you can't get a card anymore for the rest of the turn.
Feel like they should've kept the template "Whenever <condition> the first time each turn, <effect>.". That way it'd read less like a nerf and more like a natural part of the ability and it'd be less disappointing reading the awkward rider at the very end.
That would cause sequencing issues. Using that template, if you played Welcoming Vampire after a 2-drop enters the battlefield, you can't get a card anymore for the rest of the turn.
It's really amusing to me how many people are calling for strictly worse versions of templating, just because "this ability triggers once each turn" is at the end?
Please, mill me. Mill my important cards. Mill my lands. Mill it all. Because I will still deal 20 damage before you can mill 45 cards most every time.
Wait a sec, does she count herself? Cantripping draw engines are pretty dang strong
I believe "other" would indicate that she does not count herself. AFAIK
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Wait a sec, does she count herself? Cantripping draw engines are pretty dang strong
If she were Green, then yes lol, but she’s a White card, so no. At least we are seeing some of that White limited card draw that MaRo’s earlier color pie article discussed. I was afraid it’d be farther down the pipeline of sets.
Words can't describe how I hate so much all this "triggers only once each turn" nerf on effects that really dont need to be nerfed. O tempora, o mores.
So... I think that I kickstarted some of the recent discussion regarding the "triggers once per turn" discussion that was recently going on over on blogatog. As far as I can tell, there are three different wordings that have three different implications.
1. "Whenever you *insert text* the first time each turn" (look at bloodhaze wolverine and the like for the general template).
2. "At the beginning of combat on your/each turn" OR "At the beginning of your/each end step" OR "At the beginning of your postcombat main phase". (look at Luminarch Aspirant, Neheb, the Eternal, or Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist)
3. "This ability triggers only once each turn."
For version 1, if you met the condition before you cast the spell, it is too late for it to trigger that turn. While I don't think that it has been outright stated, I am guessing that this quirk of such abilities causes it to be misplayed by some newer players.
For version 2, you trigger regardless of whether you met the condition before or after you played the card, though you must have met the condition AND played the card before the noted trigger time. The trigger time can also make some effects awkward (it's hard to have a trigger that can produce a surprise blocker in mid-combat, for example, if the ability only checks whether or not you get a token at the start of combat).
For version 3, meeting the condition before casting the spell doesn't give you the trigger but doesn't stop you from meeting the trigger later on that turn (a mistake some people would likely make for #1). It is also more flexible in utilization than option #2 as it does not have to be gated to triggering at a specific time in the turn. Linguistically, however, this is the only version where the limitation has to be listed at the very end of the ability, which can make it feel much worse than abilities that introduce functionally similar limitations up-front.
If there was a way to template the wording so you could get the mechanics of Version #3 while organically putting the limitation at the start of the ability, I think that would be the best option. Unfortunately, that does not seem to be an option.
Words can't describe how I hate so much all this "triggers only once each turn" nerf on effects that really dont need to be nerfed. O tempora, o mores.
If this card triggered with every weenie drop it would be insane card advantage for a cheap not bad stated flying body. Do you really think Wotc play design just doesn't consider the drawback of once per turn when balancing cards? Could it be stronger? Maybe, but it sure feels like people just really hate once per turn effects and just want to automatically call the cards with them bad.
So... I think that I kickstarted some of the recent discussion regarding the "triggers once per turn" discussion that was recently going on over on blogatog. As far as I can tell, there are three different wordings that have three different implications.
1. "Whenever you *insert text* the first time each turn" (look at bloodhaze wolverine and the like for the general template).
2. "At the beginning of combat on your/each turn" OR "At the beginning of your/each end step" OR "At the beginning of your postcombat main phase". (look at Luminarch Aspirant, Neheb, the Eternal, or Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist)
3. "This ability triggers only once each turn."
For version 1, if you met the condition before you cast the spell, it is too late for it to trigger that turn. While I don't think that it has been outright stated, I am guessing that this quirk of such abilities causes it to be misplayed by some newer players.
For version 2, you trigger regardless of whether you met the condition before or after you played the card, though you must have met the condition AND played the card before the noted trigger time. The trigger time can also make some effects awkward (it's hard to have a trigger that can produce a surprise blocker in mid-combat, for example, if the ability only checks whether or not you get a token at the start of combat).
For version 3, meeting the condition before casting the spell doesn't give you the trigger but doesn't stop you from meeting the trigger later on that turn (a mistake some people would likely make for #1). It is also more flexible in utilization than option #2 as it does not have to be gated to triggering at a specific time in the turn. Linguistically, however, this is the only version where the limitation has to be listed at the very end of the ability, which can make it feel much worse than abilities that introduce functionally similar limitations up-front.
If there was a way to template the wording so you could get the mechanics of Version #3 while organically putting the limitation at the start of the ability, I think that would be the best option. Unfortunately, that does not seem to be an option.
I wonder if "Once per turn, whenever (condition) you may (effect)" would work?
Words can't describe how I hate so much all this "triggers only once each turn" nerf on effects that really dont need to be nerfed. O tempora, o mores.
If this card triggered with every weenie drop it would be insane card advantage for a cheap not bad stated flying body. Do you really think Wotc play design just doesn't consider the drawback of once per turn when balancing cards? Could it be stronger? Maybe, but it sure feels like people just really hate once per turn effects and just want to automatically call the cards with them bad.
Agreed, this is no way a bad card. Quite frankly I think this is better for the game's health as it gives a fun effect but isn't overpowered to the point that it can instantly win a game for you and end up a $20-50 card in a year's time.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Never forget whose grace and favor led to your success and always give your thanks, otherwise you might be doomed to loose it.
So... I think that I kickstarted some of the recent discussion regarding the "triggers once per turn" discussion that was recently going on over on blogatog. As far as I can tell, there are three different wordings that have three different implications.
1. "Whenever you *insert text* the first time each turn" (look at bloodhaze wolverine and the like for the general template).
2. "At the beginning of combat on your/each turn" OR "At the beginning of your/each end step" OR "At the beginning of your postcombat main phase". (look at Luminarch Aspirant, Neheb, the Eternal, or Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist)
3. "This ability triggers only once each turn."
For version 1, if you met the condition before you cast the spell, it is too late for it to trigger that turn. While I don't think that it has been outright stated, I am guessing that this quirk of such abilities causes it to be misplayed by some newer players.
For version 2, you trigger regardless of whether you met the condition before or after you played the card, though you must have met the condition AND played the card before the noted trigger time. The trigger time can also make some effects awkward (it's hard to have a trigger that can produce a surprise blocker in mid-combat, for example, if the ability only checks whether or not you get a token at the start of combat).
For version 3, meeting the condition before casting the spell doesn't give you the trigger but doesn't stop you from meeting the trigger later on that turn (a mistake some people would likely make for #1). It is also more flexible in utilization than option #2 as it does not have to be gated to triggering at a specific time in the turn. Linguistically, however, this is the only version where the limitation has to be listed at the very end of the ability, which can make it feel much worse than abilities that introduce functionally similar limitations up-front.
If there was a way to template the wording so you could get the mechanics of Version #3 while organically putting the limitation at the start of the ability, I think that would be the best option. Unfortunately, that does not seem to be an option.
I wonder if "Once per turn, whenever (condition) you may (effect)" would work?
I think that wizards is trying to maintain consistency between the formatting of activated and triggered ability.
If an ability read:
: Once per turn, as a sorcery, *this creature* gets +2/+2.
That would look odd to me as it makes the restriction look like a part of the ability rather than being a restriction (IMO). For activated abilities, I think that putting the restrictions at the end makes good sense. When you try to keep that consistent with triggered abilities, though...
This is actually better than mentor of the meek since you dont have to kick mana into it for the draw which makes your turn 4 play much more relevant. Yes you only get it once a turn but anytime I dont have to self tax to gain a card effect/advantage while also gaining a decent flyer I am all for that.
So... I think that I kickstarted some of the recent discussion regarding the "triggers once per turn" discussion that was recently going on over on blogatog. As far as I can tell, there are three different wordings that have three different implications.
1. "Whenever you *insert text* the first time each turn" (look at bloodhaze wolverine and the like for the general template).
2. "At the beginning of combat on your/each turn" OR "At the beginning of your/each end step" OR "At the beginning of your postcombat main phase". (look at Luminarch Aspirant, Neheb, the Eternal, or Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist)
3. "This ability triggers only once each turn."
For version 1, if you met the condition before you cast the spell, it is too late for it to trigger that turn. While I don't think that it has been outright stated, I am guessing that this quirk of such abilities causes it to be misplayed by some newer players.
For version 2, you trigger regardless of whether you met the condition before or after you played the card, though you must have met the condition AND played the card before the noted trigger time. The trigger time can also make some effects awkward (it's hard to have a trigger that can produce a surprise blocker in mid-combat, for example, if the ability only checks whether or not you get a token at the start of combat).
For version 3, meeting the condition before casting the spell doesn't give you the trigger but doesn't stop you from meeting the trigger later on that turn (a mistake some people would likely make for #1). It is also more flexible in utilization than option #2 as it does not have to be gated to triggering at a specific time in the turn. Linguistically, however, this is the only version where the limitation has to be listed at the very end of the ability, which can make it feel much worse than abilities that introduce functionally similar limitations up-front.
If there was a way to template the wording so you could get the mechanics of Version #3 while organically putting the limitation at the start of the ability, I think that would be the best option. Unfortunately, that does not seem to be an option.
I'd point out an additional limitation on version 2: gating it to a specific time means the opponent can wait to see if you trigger it, then remove it before you get the actual benefit. Or you can lose the opportunity to benefit if the creature dies before the appointed time. For example, a Morbid Opportunist that triggered on the end step would be much much weaker, as it would miss out on drawing cards from Wraths or trading in combat if it doesn't survive them.
Wallpaper plz. She's dreadfully cute. If you attach Cobbled Wings to her, she becomes a stewardess. I like the normal version better than the Fang Frame.
The "This ability triggers only once each turn" clause was something that should've been implemented to fix Standard for a VERY LONG TIME. For one it helps reduce the urgency for emergency bans on cards that don't have that clause that are easily abused. Two it seems as though Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro is starting to enforce this on account of weak sealed product sales whether If it's from supply chain shortages or them pushing more MTG players to Digital over Paper. And three, while it's detrimental to players (like myself) who love running non-interactive combo decks for eternal formats the risk of designing answers to stop these combos via free casting also seems to be problematic because they don't want to run the risk of breaking the game.
This clause should really be implemented on cards that Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro KNOWS will be abused but instead is placing it on cards that may or may not break the game or warp formats around themselves but since they never have the time to play test the cards they design before release due to having to constantly appease Papa Hasbro it's really no surprise at this point. Do I think it's bad for the future of the game in general? If this clause keeps getting pushed then it will be unless they design most of the broken cards exclusively for supplementary sets and Commander Pre-Con exclusives. Either they keep pushing this clause or be willing to design answers for dealing with said combos without breaking said formats.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
And now the set's Mentor of the Meek/Bygone Bishop-type card.
Source: Weekly MTG
this once per turn i don't mind plus mentor of the meek is there if you hate that part
No, they just talked about it at the same time for whatever reason. It's in the main set.
I believe "other" would indicate that she does not count herself. AFAIK
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
If she were Green, then yes lol, but she’s a White card, so no. At least we are seeing some of that White limited card draw that MaRo’s earlier color pie article discussed. I was afraid it’d be farther down the pipeline of sets.
1. "Whenever you *insert text* the first time each turn" (look at bloodhaze wolverine and the like for the general template).
2. "At the beginning of combat on your/each turn" OR "At the beginning of your/each end step" OR "At the beginning of your postcombat main phase". (look at Luminarch Aspirant, Neheb, the Eternal, or Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist)
3. "This ability triggers only once each turn."
For version 1, if you met the condition before you cast the spell, it is too late for it to trigger that turn. While I don't think that it has been outright stated, I am guessing that this quirk of such abilities causes it to be misplayed by some newer players.
For version 2, you trigger regardless of whether you met the condition before or after you played the card, though you must have met the condition AND played the card before the noted trigger time. The trigger time can also make some effects awkward (it's hard to have a trigger that can produce a surprise blocker in mid-combat, for example, if the ability only checks whether or not you get a token at the start of combat).
For version 3, meeting the condition before casting the spell doesn't give you the trigger but doesn't stop you from meeting the trigger later on that turn (a mistake some people would likely make for #1). It is also more flexible in utilization than option #2 as it does not have to be gated to triggering at a specific time in the turn. Linguistically, however, this is the only version where the limitation has to be listed at the very end of the ability, which can make it feel much worse than abilities that introduce functionally similar limitations up-front.
If there was a way to template the wording so you could get the mechanics of Version #3 while organically putting the limitation at the start of the ability, I think that would be the best option. Unfortunately, that does not seem to be an option.
If this card triggered with every weenie drop it would be insane card advantage for a cheap not bad stated flying body. Do you really think Wotc play design just doesn't consider the drawback of once per turn when balancing cards? Could it be stronger? Maybe, but it sure feels like people just really hate once per turn effects and just want to automatically call the cards with them bad.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
I wonder if "Once per turn, whenever (condition) you may (effect)" would work?
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Agreed, this is no way a bad card. Quite frankly I think this is better for the game's health as it gives a fun effect but isn't overpowered to the point that it can instantly win a game for you and end up a $20-50 card in a year's time.
I think that wizards is trying to maintain consistency between the formatting of activated and triggered ability.
If an ability read:
: Once per turn, as a sorcery, *this creature* gets +2/+2.
That would look odd to me as it makes the restriction look like a part of the ability rather than being a restriction (IMO). For activated abilities, I think that putting the restrictions at the end makes good sense. When you try to keep that consistent with triggered abilities, though...
Everyday she comes to work, she puts on her vampire customer service voice lol
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
And they are hitting it out of the park with the artwork. Dannnnggggg.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
This clause should really be implemented on cards that Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro KNOWS will be abused but instead is placing it on cards that may or may not break the game or warp formats around themselves but since they never have the time to play test the cards they design before release due to having to constantly appease Papa Hasbro it's really no surprise at this point. Do I think it's bad for the future of the game in general? If this clause keeps getting pushed then it will be unless they design most of the broken cards exclusively for supplementary sets and Commander Pre-Con exclusives. Either they keep pushing this clause or be willing to design answers for dealing with said combos without breaking said formats.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta