The irony is that WotC produces these "issues" of not having a block of 3 sets anymore, then "fixes" the issue they produced with another product to sell the same cards in new packaging.
You act as if drafting blocks hasn't had any issues either. Drafting 3rd/2nd/1st e. g. let to less packs opened of the 3rd set even as it solved some of the issues of 1st/2nd/3rd. I assume, drafting both large sets together is more of a novelty with individual drafts being the norm anyway.
(They kinda did that in the past, like with the Premium all foil Shards of Alara packs, which had cards of all the sets in the block, so it was a 3-in-1 thing)
Now that one was more of a pointless money grab - at least from the perspective of offering gameplay. It's more akin to today's collector's boosters.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
I'll sure echo that it seems like a missed opportunity to infuse the draft with some cards from the older ISD-block and SOI-block.
THIS would have been a cool idea, actually. Make some B&W versions of Liliana of the Veil and Avacyn and it would fly off the shelves. Add Tireless Tracker and Thing in the Ice and some other favorites...
Now that one was more of a pointless money grab - at least from the perspective of offering gameplay. It's more akin to today's collector's boosters.
I actually have find memories of these. At the time I got back into MtG and started collecting again (New Phyrexia) these were complete duds and selling for ridiculously low prices, like $50 for an entire display of 12. I bought a huge amount and 90% of my entire Alara-block collection is foils.
This subpar redundant grayscale product should be boycotted completely. Honestly, just leave it on store shelves for the next two decades and send an important message, because obviously, Wizards just wants to save on printing costs by reducing their consumption of color toner, and if these packs aren't cheaper to buy than their colored counterparts (regardless of the print run which we won't know anyway), they're essentially profiting even more than usual (excessively by any metric) at the consumer's expense. This is insulting, unacceptable, and functionality notwithstanding, at best, these cards art artificial collectibles, perhaps even more gimmicky and unattractive to me as full-text basic lands which so far is the frontrunner of terrible marketing ideas.
They should've just reprinted Dark Ascension, given the planeswalkers alternate art, and called the product Spark Ascension instead
I mean... sure they will make more money in theory if people buy it... but since when are we against them making money? Do you want to see them fail? It doesn't hurt us in any way, and it's not predatory like Secret Lairs. A lot of people like the black and white versions. I don't see your point as something anyone should be concerned about. If you don't like it, don't buy it.
I do think it would have been better if they mixed in old cards from Innistrad and Shadows over Innistrad, but I don't see anything inherently wrong with them making this product
Which set do you draft 2 packs of? Then your draft is skewed one way or the other.
If you have a draft pod of 4, 6, or 8 you can just give half the group 2 packs of Midnight Hunt and 1 pack of Crimson Vow, and the other half 2 packs of Crimson Vow, and 1 pack of Midnight Hunt.
If you have a draft pod of 5 or 7, the same system gives you just one extra pack of either, so you, the pod, or the store can make the choice of which you'd rather have less of.
Or, I can buy this handy product and not have to worry about all that. Also, then I only have to buy one box, instead of buying two and splitting them up (or buying a bunch of loose packs, which will cost significantly more).
(They kinda did that in the past, like with the Premium all foil Shards of Alara packs, which had cards of all the sets in the block, so it was a 3-in-1 thing)
I wouldn't really say that's comparable to this as that was strictly just a premium product, but I can understand the comparison.
Or, I can buy this handy product and not have to worry about all that. Also, then I only have to buy one box, instead of buying two and splitting them up (or buying a bunch of loose packs, which will cost significantly more).
Do you have to buy a box? Seems like if you're going to be doing drafts with people they could bring their own packs and/or you could just pool the money together and get multiple boxes anyways. If you're doing enough drafting to buy two boxes of this product you could buy two boxes of the two sets.
There's really no problem that this product fixes and really it's just a weaker version of the Alara premium packs.
Or, I can buy this handy product and not have to worry about all that. Also, then I only have to buy one box, instead of buying two and splitting them up (or buying a bunch of loose packs, which will cost significantly more).
I was just answering the question of "how do you balance the packs."
Also, we don't know the cost of the Double Feature yet, so we don't actually know if buying 3Z x $4 (where Z is the number of players in your pod) will be cheaper than buying a box of the Double Feature. It'll be different, sure, but not necessarily cheaper.
EDIT: Also, it's not like we're talking about two hard to find sets. It'll probably be easier to grab enough Crimson Vow and Midnight Hunt Booster Packs from a big box store than the Double Feature will be from an LGS. Plus, you'll have two months to try out the "mash two sets together" version before Double Feature even hits shelves.
After the sketch cards were JUST in MH2 in the original regular packs, having it be another whole product entirely feels pretty dirty.
Midnight Hunt already has its own equivalent to the sketch cards in black and white cards already in the set as well as the coven and werewolf showcases. It's safe to assume Crimson Vow will have something of that type as well. This whole other product is extra after the showcase stuff we've already gotten for the set.
It's interesting to see reasonable minds juxtaposed against the more vitriolic segments of the community. But yeah, I think this is awesome even though I have 0 interest in it personally. Makes for a sweet sealed/limited experience. Also, while I'm blessed to be able to get a box of each set separately, some people might really enjoy busting a single product containing cards from both. The people buying boxes of MH and CV are not the people buying Double Feature, unless they just really want to draft it.
After the sketch cards were JUST in MH2 in the original regular packs, having it be another whole product entirely feels pretty dirty.
Midnight Hunt already has its own equivalent to the sketch cards in black and white cards already in the set as well as the coven and werewolf showcases. It's safe to assume Crimson Vow will have something of that type as well. This whole other product is extra after the showcase stuff we've already gotten for the set.
I'll second Melkor. While sometimes their Collector's premium frames and treatments are neat and all by themselves sometimes even great, you have to wonder how much thought is put into variety over time. This concentration of black-and-white treatments is a little unimpressive foresight/planning.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
I hate to point it out but this is the state of the game now. Gone are the days when the proprietors cared about gameplay and all other factors in between. I doubt it will change any time soon. It's Money: The Making now.
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
LMAO... very well said! Despite what Maro has said many times, about the fact that each product is not meant for everyone, I can't help but think that it sounds a bit shallow, but rather a company quote he has to say in order to appease the crowds on that subject.
WotC has become Hasbro's big money printing machine. I just hope, having played for over 20 years, that this corporate model doesn't ruin the game in the long term. In my case, I watch what comes out and only pick a few cards here and there... I no longer feel excited for upcoming releases as I have in the past, before the avalanche of products we are now faced with on a regular basis.
LMAO... very well said! Despite what Maro has said many times, about the fact that each product is not meant for everyone, I can't help but think that it sounds a bit shallow, but rather a company quote he has to say in order to appease the crowds on that subject.
Its short for, we produce all kinds of products, throw them at the customer and wait what sticks.
Its also a lazy way to have an excuse for terrible product, as they can distract and simply say "Then buy the other".
Why quality control if you can just do that instead ?
I just hope, having played for over 20 years, that this corporate model doesn't ruin the game in the long term.
It's going to happen when old employers will go away and they'll hire new ones who have no passion. Look what happened to Blizzard.
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
There is a lot to e worried about and plenty legitimate complaints, but there seem to be just too many people all too willing to ignore that we are not past the threshold where all "old employees will go away and they'll hire new ones who have no passion". There are plenty of people who are putting in the work to make more of a game they are passionate about while also satisfying the directions of "the proprietors". People that care about gameplay. People that care about story. Or at least people that care about balancing the wishes of a diverse fan base in addition to the voices of the investors.
Throwing out products to see what works is a way to gauge reaction. If the right stuff works out, that can still lead to an enjoyable game with exquisite world building. As far as I can tell the only thing that is really problematic right is that not all dozen Constructed formats work out well enough for everyone to like everything, but almost every "Standard sucks" tirade I've read in the last years always had a "That's why I stick with Modern" portion that just shows that there is a niche for that player to enjoy.
I personally agree this is a lazy product, but that also kinda means it can fail without me having to be sad about too much resources being taken away from premium sets and major supplemental releases.
This obviously is meant concerning the actual design of the products. There are legitimate issues with distribution and local support and possibly the way competitive tournaments have been handled, but that's really a different set of issues way beyond a product release like this.
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Quote from Conuly »
Heck, every day I wake up, I don't go out and kill people - and I'm rewarded by not having legions of enemies! Amazing how that works.
Although ninjas are experts of camouflage and concealment, they are actually horrible liars. This means that no matter where you are, you can shout out, “Are there any ninjas here?” and if there’s a ninja within earshot, he’ll be compelled to respond.
here seem to be just too many people all too willing to ignore that we are not past the threshold where all "old employees will go away and they'll hire new ones who have no passion". There are plenty of people who are putting in the work to make more of a game they are passionate about while also satisfying the directions of "the proprietors". People that care about gameplay. People that care about story. Or at least people that care about balancing the wishes of a diverse fan base in addition to the voices of the investors.
We are not past that but we are approaching it imo. It's more a when than a if, to quote maro. I think it's going to happen simply because the current rhythm is unsustainable, hasbro tries to milk mtg more and more and we keep getting more and more products. It can't last.
We kinda saw something like that with story and lore. You claim that there are people that care about story but lore was shafted multiple times. It was clearly the lowest priority and many untalented/uninterested people were hired.
Sorry to sound like the doomsday guy but product fatigue is real
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
While I agree not every product is for everyone, I must ask, who is this product geared towards? The gullible?
I really don't know if this set has broad appeal to collectors or not. I'm leaning towards not. If they had made B&W versions of all of the rares and mythics and put them in Set Boosters or Collector Boosters people probably would have wanted them. But making them their own product and having every card from two large sets, it just seems like a shelf-warmer to me.
While I agree not every product is for everyone, I must ask, who is this product geared towards? The gullible?
What's gullible about it? It's just drafting both sets in one. You could buy two boxes or just buy this one and get some weird art cards. If you love drafting, then it's probably something you'd like to pick up for a new drafting exoerience. I'm interested in seeing if they just mash the tep sets together or cut cards out and trim it.
Ok so what are some silver linings to this silver screen themed set?
The main one I can think of is that whatever does get printed will go down in price. Either just all around cheaper or a cheaper version will be put into the secondary market. Cheaper cards will make the game more accessible.
Plus the "alternative art style" will make for some interesting customization choices.
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Never forget whose grace and favor led to your success and always give your thanks, otherwise you might be doomed to loose it.
If you love drafting, then it's probably something you'd like to pick up for a new drafting exoerience.
But if you love drafting wouldn't you have done a 2-1/1-2 draft and therefore by the time this comes out it's just selling you something you've already done?
That's the thing with this product, it's not offering anything you can't/couldn't already do. Maybe if they had some Innistrad 1-2 cards thrown in for some fun then at least this would be offering something unique, but without it it's just selling you the same thing that would have been available for two months before it.
Outside of new art this offers nothing new in neither experience nor cards, at the very least if this had Innistrad 1+2 it would offer cards not reprinted in some time in a, hopefully, Standard price set, but it doesn't.
While I agree not every product is for everyone, I must ask, who is this product geared towards? The gullible?
A person with particular preferences is not a matter of gullibility. What an odious thing to say...
'buster
That person couldn’t just purchase these sets to draft? The alternative treatment couldn’t have simply been in collector’s boosters as it has been thus far?
You act as if drafting blocks hasn't had any issues either. Drafting 3rd/2nd/1st e. g. let to less packs opened of the 3rd set even as it solved some of the issues of 1st/2nd/3rd. I assume, drafting both large sets together is more of a novelty with individual drafts being the norm anyway.
Now that one was more of a pointless money grab - at least from the perspective of offering gameplay. It's more akin to today's collector's boosters.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
I actually have find memories of these. At the time I got back into MtG and started collecting again (New Phyrexia) these were complete duds and selling for ridiculously low prices, like $50 for an entire display of 12. I bought a huge amount and 90% of my entire Alara-block collection is foils.
I mean... sure they will make more money in theory if people buy it... but since when are we against them making money? Do you want to see them fail? It doesn't hurt us in any way, and it's not predatory like Secret Lairs. A lot of people like the black and white versions. I don't see your point as something anyone should be concerned about. If you don't like it, don't buy it.
I do think it would have been better if they mixed in old cards from Innistrad and Shadows over Innistrad, but I don't see anything inherently wrong with them making this product
Or, I can buy this handy product and not have to worry about all that. Also, then I only have to buy one box, instead of buying two and splitting them up (or buying a bunch of loose packs, which will cost significantly more).
I wouldn't really say that's comparable to this as that was strictly just a premium product, but I can understand the comparison.
Do you have to buy a box? Seems like if you're going to be doing drafts with people they could bring their own packs and/or you could just pool the money together and get multiple boxes anyways. If you're doing enough drafting to buy two boxes of this product you could buy two boxes of the two sets.
There's really no problem that this product fixes and really it's just a weaker version of the Alara premium packs.
I was just answering the question of "how do you balance the packs."
Also, we don't know the cost of the Double Feature yet, so we don't actually know if buying 3Z x $4 (where Z is the number of players in your pod) will be cheaper than buying a box of the Double Feature. It'll be different, sure, but not necessarily cheaper.
EDIT: Also, it's not like we're talking about two hard to find sets. It'll probably be easier to grab enough Crimson Vow and Midnight Hunt Booster Packs from a big box store than the Double Feature will be from an LGS. Plus, you'll have two months to try out the "mash two sets together" version before Double Feature even hits shelves.
Midnight Hunt already has its own equivalent to the sketch cards in black and white cards already in the set as well as the coven and werewolf showcases. It's safe to assume Crimson Vow will have something of that type as well. This whole other product is extra after the showcase stuff we've already gotten for the set.
I'll second Melkor. While sometimes their Collector's premium frames and treatments are neat and all by themselves sometimes even great, you have to wonder how much thought is put into variety over time. This concentration of black-and-white treatments is a little unimpressive foresight/planning.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
LMAO... very well said! Despite what Maro has said many times, about the fact that each product is not meant for everyone, I can't help but think that it sounds a bit shallow, but rather a company quote he has to say in order to appease the crowds on that subject.
WotC has become Hasbro's big money printing machine. I just hope, having played for over 20 years, that this corporate model doesn't ruin the game in the long term. In my case, I watch what comes out and only pick a few cards here and there... I no longer feel excited for upcoming releases as I have in the past, before the avalanche of products we are now faced with on a regular basis.
Its short for, we produce all kinds of products, throw them at the customer and wait what sticks.
Its also a lazy way to have an excuse for terrible product, as they can distract and simply say "Then buy the other".
Why quality control if you can just do that instead ?
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
It's going to happen when old employers will go away and they'll hire new ones who have no passion. Look what happened to Blizzard.
Throwing out products to see what works is a way to gauge reaction. If the right stuff works out, that can still lead to an enjoyable game with exquisite world building. As far as I can tell the only thing that is really problematic right is that not all dozen Constructed formats work out well enough for everyone to like everything, but almost every "Standard sucks" tirade I've read in the last years always had a "That's why I stick with Modern" portion that just shows that there is a niche for that player to enjoy.
I personally agree this is a lazy product, but that also kinda means it can fail without me having to be sad about too much resources being taken away from premium sets and major supplemental releases.
This obviously is meant concerning the actual design of the products. There are legitimate issues with distribution and local support and possibly the way competitive tournaments have been handled, but that's really a different set of issues way beyond a product release like this.
Although ninjas are experts of camouflage and concealment, they are actually horrible liars. This means that no matter where you are, you can shout out, “Are there any ninjas here?” and if there’s a ninja within earshot, he’ll be compelled to respond.
We are not past that but we are approaching it imo. It's more a when than a if, to quote maro. I think it's going to happen simply because the current rhythm is unsustainable, hasbro tries to milk mtg more and more and we keep getting more and more products. It can't last.
We kinda saw something like that with story and lore. You claim that there are people that care about story but lore was shafted multiple times. It was clearly the lowest priority and many untalented/uninterested people were hired.
Sorry to sound like the doomsday guy but product fatigue is real
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I really don't know if this set has broad appeal to collectors or not. I'm leaning towards not. If they had made B&W versions of all of the rares and mythics and put them in Set Boosters or Collector Boosters people probably would have wanted them. But making them their own product and having every card from two large sets, it just seems like a shelf-warmer to me.
What's gullible about it? It's just drafting both sets in one. You could buy two boxes or just buy this one and get some weird art cards. If you love drafting, then it's probably something you'd like to pick up for a new drafting exoerience. I'm interested in seeing if they just mash the tep sets together or cut cards out and trim it.
The main one I can think of is that whatever does get printed will go down in price. Either just all around cheaper or a cheaper version will be put into the secondary market. Cheaper cards will make the game more accessible.
Plus the "alternative art style" will make for some interesting customization choices.
But if you love drafting wouldn't you have done a 2-1/1-2 draft and therefore by the time this comes out it's just selling you something you've already done?
That's the thing with this product, it's not offering anything you can't/couldn't already do. Maybe if they had some Innistrad 1-2 cards thrown in for some fun then at least this would be offering something unique, but without it it's just selling you the same thing that would have been available for two months before it.
Outside of new art this offers nothing new in neither experience nor cards, at the very least if this had Innistrad 1+2 it would offer cards not reprinted in some time in a, hopefully, Standard price set, but it doesn't.
A person with particular preferences is not a matter of gullibility. What an odious thing to say...
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||