Our Disturb legend is an interesting take on a graveyard-matters card. He protects your graveyard on the front (mainly to keep people from getting rid of your Disturb creatures but there are a lot of other applications) while also killing most of any other player's graveyard recursion, while the back rewards filling said graveyard. What else can you do with him?
It continues to surprise me how many cards in recent sets have the "once per turn" rider. Would this be totally broken if you got three clues after a wrath?
It continues to surprise me how many cards in recent sets have the "once per turn" rider. Would this be totally broken if you got three clues after a wrath?
He says one or more, so a wrath would only give you one Clue even without the once per turn restriction. It's probably there because he doesn't care whose creatures or creature cards hit which graveyard, so he effectively gives most removal spells and many mill spells investigate. Not too impressive either way.
It continues to surprise me how many cards in recent sets have the "once per turn" rider. Would this be totally broken if you got three clues after a wrath?
Really, the restriction is there to stop infinite loops in older formats. Project X is already a thing, why give it new toys?
Really, the restriction is there to stop infinite loops in older formats. Project X is already a thing, why give it new toys?
Why give it new toys ?
Well the entire point of new cards is to get new toys.
Restrictions like "once per turn" are in almost any case just fun-stoppers , when the card could actually be great, with the once-per-turn clause it becomes much much weaker, especially in multiplayer games, where you could get massive rewards in a big swoop.
If its only means is to prevent infinite combos it could have a higher limit (like only X times a turn) to at least allow more wiggle room.
Once-a-turn is for sure limiting the fun to well, once-a-turn.
You know, it abilities like this started with “the first time each turn that” or “at the beginning of your postcombat main phase” instead of listing a perfectly good ability and adding a restriction like “triggers once per turn” or “use only as a sorcery” to the end, I don’t think that we’d be complaining about these abilities nearly as much.
I think that the modern template for these abilities “feels bad”.
You know, it abilities like this started with “the first time each turn that” or “at the beginning of your postcombat main phase” instead of listing a perfectly good ability and adding a restriction like “triggers once per turn” or “use only as a sorcery” to the end, I don’t think that we’d be complaining about these abilities nearly as much.
I think that the modern template for these abilities “feels bad”.
Which is really funny, because the versions you listed are strictly worse than "triggers once per turn". Like, the modern template is more powerful, so it's weird that it's seen as worse than the more restrictive versions.
With the "once per turn" restriction, you guys witness a value card, not a combo card. I don't understand the complaining here.
Considering the clue / treasure / food interactions we have now, it's only precautious not to make deckbuilding too easy for players. It makes for more incremental advantages in games, but I suppose it will forever annoy midrange metagame haters.
Until the graveyard itself can't be targeted cards like this tend to not do much.
You are not familiar with certain formats (Modern and Legacy in mind). Many competitive decks need to target cards in graveyards to even function G1.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
It continues to surprise me how many cards in recent sets have the "once per turn" rider. Would this be totally broken if you got three clues after a wrath?
I do have to second the balance question. Would “whenever a creature card is put into a graveyard from anywhere, investigate” be broken?
This + Ashnod’s Altar to go through your entire library?
While there are a lot of 2-cars infinite combos, I can respect wizards for avoiding one.
Edit: wait, nope. That is not a combo. Never post super tired, folks. Forgot a need for actual creatures.
You need a Snickers.
Interesting card. A 2/3 lifelink with a somewhat relevant ability for WU is pretty good on its own. The flipside can be a card draw engine if done right. The exile part though is what kills (!) it for me.
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
It continues to surprise me how many cards in recent sets have the "once per turn" rider. Would this be totally broken if you got three clues after a wrath?
no but it could if you dump your entire library into graveyard with Emrakul in it, to reshuffle and get 30 clues.
no but it could if you dump your entire library into graveyard with Emrakul in it, to reshuffle and get 30 clues.
That would make it viable for a deck , instead of resorting to just make it a potentially forgettable value card that just doesnt cut it.
If you get a combo going with this and the opponent doesnt have removal for either parts, congratulations, you get a lot of clue tokens, which on their own do not really accomplish much (if you then get another part for your combo to use them to win, well great job?)
Aww, what a cutie, and UW too, perfect colors! I WANT HIM FOR EDH! Grin
I agree he should be able to investigate any number of times per turn. One is limited by mana to crack clues anyway, so the mechanic somewhat regulates itself that way.
Ah, but what if we had a way to turn all those tokens into Mana and cards and could spin our deck multiple times a turn. Sure, I know it's a lot of hoops but we know how unfun infinite loops are in the game and Modern keeps on getting them accidentally.
Seems Wizard's can't win. Either a set I'd too careful or they have to ban at least 1 card and everyone complains about that instead. As the old saying goes, they could put $100 bills in packs...
Ah, but what if we had a way to turn all those tokens into Mana and cards and could spin our deck multiple times a turn. Sure, I know it's a lot of hoops but we know how unfun infinite loops are in the game and Modern keeps on getting them accidentally.
Seems Wizard's can't win. Either a set I'd too careful or they have to ban at least 1 card and everyone complains about that instead. As the old saying goes, they could put $100 bills in packs...
I mean, if the metric for breaking him is using three other cards or some such that seems pretty excessive to be concerned about.
I like that secondary ability, but for it to crop up on a Azorius card hurts my soul. Needs to be more common and more generic - an artifact or land instead of a creature.
I'm late to this party, but yes, he would be legitimately insane if you got a clue anytime a creature entered the yard from anywhere. Frankly, I think he'd still be pretty busted even if he could just trigger multiple times per turn. Every counterspell, wrath, and removal spell also generates card advantage? Every time an opponent mills you or themselves you get cards? The fact that you still have to actually crack the clue only makes it less busted than straight up drawing, but that analysis ignores the fact that (1) if you're playing the long game, it doesn't really matter and (2) artifact synergies.
I've been playing him in a UW Control shell and as is he's super playable on both sides, but without a ton of other creatures he tends to eat removal pretty quickly (twice though!). Honestly I've been trying to brew some sort of list around disturb just to get max value from him because he's probably my favorite card in the set, but I just haven't found enough to do with the yard in U/W/x.
A 2/3 lifelink with a sometimes annoyingly relevant ability for 2, that draws you a 3/2 flier for 4 when it dies, and they also put some extra card draw on there. And people want it to draw you more cards. Guys this card is already an Eldraine design
A 2/3 lifelink with a sometimes annoyingly relevant ability for 2, that draws you a 3/2 flier for 4 when it dies, and they also put some extra card draw on there. And people want it to draw you more cards. Guys this card is already an Eldraine design
People dont care for all the other stuff, they really just want the card draw to be better.
Instead you get what you dont want with a worse deal.
Its like you want a fast car, instead they sell you a big truck, plenty of room, but you actually wanted a fast car, and not a truck.
Some might argue, well its still a car, so quit complaining ...
The card is mediocre fine , but people wanted it to be better in its backside, could make the front side way worse, as casting these from the grave is much more potential with all kinds of shenanigans (as dredging it, draw+discard, tutoring for it with stuff like Intuition , the backside is what carries the card and its most relevant part, the front is a bonus in case you draw it and need the body ... if you value the front as the relevant part however it changes how you evaluate the card).
Our Disturb legend is an interesting take on a graveyard-matters card. He protects your graveyard on the front (mainly to keep people from getting rid of your Disturb creatures but there are a lot of other applications) while also killing most of any other player's graveyard recursion, while the back rewards filling said graveyard. What else can you do with him?
Source: The Third Power podcast
With that said a 2/3 with lifelink for 2 isn't terrible, especially when you can have a flyer that might draw you cards later.
Really, the restriction is there to stop infinite loops in older formats. Project X is already a thing, why give it new toys?
This + Ashnod’s Altar to go through your entire library?
While there are a lot of 2-cars infinite combos, I can respect wizards for avoiding one.
Edit: wait, nope. That is not a combo. Never post super tired, folks. Forgot a need for actual creatures.
Why give it new toys ?
Well the entire point of new cards is to get new toys.
Restrictions like "once per turn" are in almost any case just fun-stoppers , when the card could actually be great, with the once-per-turn clause it becomes much much weaker, especially in multiplayer games, where you could get massive rewards in a big swoop.
If its only means is to prevent infinite combos it could have a higher limit (like only X times a turn) to at least allow more wiggle room.
Once-a-turn is for sure limiting the fun to well, once-a-turn.
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You know, it abilities like this started with “the first time each turn that” or “at the beginning of your postcombat main phase” instead of listing a perfectly good ability and adding a restriction like “triggers once per turn” or “use only as a sorcery” to the end, I don’t think that we’d be complaining about these abilities nearly as much.
I think that the modern template for these abilities “feels bad”.
Considering the clue / treasure / food interactions we have now, it's only precautious not to make deckbuilding too easy for players. It makes for more incremental advantages in games, but I suppose it will forever annoy midrange metagame haters.
You are not familiar with certain formats (Modern and Legacy in mind). Many competitive decks need to target cards in graveyards to even function G1.
Aaaand now I don't care anymore. But Interesting design otherwise.
…yes? obviously?
You need a Snickers.
Interesting card. A 2/3 lifelink with a somewhat relevant ability for WU is pretty good on its own. The flipside can be a card draw engine if done right. The exile part though is what kills (!) it for me.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
no but it could if you dump your entire library into graveyard with Emrakul in it, to reshuffle and get 30 clues.
That would make it viable for a deck , instead of resorting to just make it a potentially forgettable value card that just doesnt cut it.
If you get a combo going with this and the opponent doesnt have removal for either parts, congratulations, you get a lot of clue tokens, which on their own do not really accomplish much (if you then get another part for your combo to use them to win, well great job?)
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I agree he should be able to investigate any number of times per turn. One is limited by mana to crack clues anyway, so the mechanic somewhat regulates itself that way.
I LOVE HIS ART!
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Seems Wizard's can't win. Either a set I'd too careful or they have to ban at least 1 card and everyone complains about that instead. As the old saying goes, they could put $100 bills in packs...
I mean, if the metric for breaking him is using three other cards or some such that seems pretty excessive to be concerned about.
I've been playing him in a UW Control shell and as is he's super playable on both sides, but without a ton of other creatures he tends to eat removal pretty quickly (twice though!). Honestly I've been trying to brew some sort of list around disturb just to get max value from him because he's probably my favorite card in the set, but I just haven't found enough to do with the yard in U/W/x.
Yes, entirely so. I mean..you have to work very hard to lose a game after a play like that.
Scale that same experience up over tens of thousands of Standard matches and it is quite a bad design.
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People dont care for all the other stuff, they really just want the card draw to be better.
Instead you get what you dont want with a worse deal.
Its like you want a fast car, instead they sell you a big truck, plenty of room, but you actually wanted a fast car, and not a truck.
Some might argue, well its still a car, so quit complaining ...
The card is mediocre fine , but people wanted it to be better in its backside, could make the front side way worse, as casting these from the grave is much more potential with all kinds of shenanigans (as dredging it, draw+discard, tutoring for it with stuff like Intuition , the backside is what carries the card and its most relevant part, the front is a bonus in case you draw it and need the body ... if you value the front as the relevant part however it changes how you evaluate the card).
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮