Most people dislike it once the novelty wears off because it steals the game or spoils their win (spike), or because it makes everything else not matter (many Timmies and most Johnnies).
Is this a known fact? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just curious if there's been any statement from WotC that says that. This is only my experience, but the majority of people who played at my LGS were big fans of planechase with those who disliked it strongly disliking it. So I'm wondering whether or not there's been any official statement to that effect.
Just comments like the one above about it being a minor when on Planechase 3... I seem to remember one when planechase 2 came out and people were asking about Archenemy 2 that talked about trying to make products for different people and how archenemy and planechase apealed to a similar number of people, but archenemy required one player get the new cards and planechase encouraged more to get them so while both products were nitch planechase sold a little better... and other comments after planechase 2 that indicated a planechase 3 wasn't going to come out soon (which implies sales for PC2 were lower then expected... which implies that PC1 had burned a few people who were initially excited by it)
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(U/B) is :symbu: or :symub: and the same is true for the other 9 hybrid symbols with their two colors in for the last 2 leters of the code. ((2/B) and co are :sym2b:)
Alternatively {UB} or {2B} in [mana] tags are (U/B) or (2/B) T is :symtap: and T will give T in [mana] tags
I don't conduct market research, and WotC doesn't publish theirs... but Mark Rosewater has made comments in the past about planechase's sales and such... a quick search isn't showing anything glaring at the moment but if it was popular and lasting then the answer here: https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/183033726313/ifwhen-more-planechase
wouldn't be 'minor'...
If it was as wildly unpopular as you're saying, then wouldn't the answer be "if" rather than "when"?
I referred to these planes originally:
--Grove of the Dreampods flips out an eldrazi titan or something similar (Blightsteel?) ((As I mentioned originally... happened on the first turn of play... OG Emrakul against a bunch of players with 1 land each...))
--Hedron Fields of Agadeem you and I mentioned this one...
--Quicksilver Sea see Grove of the Dreampods above
--The Aether Flues see Grove of the Dreampods above
--The Maelstrom see Grove of the Dreampods above
Grove of Dreampods can be pretty broken sure, but if nobody play enough removals in your playgroup, the fault is bad deckbuild, not the planes. Having Grove as first plane is extremely unlickely (of course, granting we're talking about the "Shared Planechase deck" mode with all planes and phenomena currently available) and revealing a blight colossus is even more unlikely (unless you are a combo deck that specifically play only that creature card in your deck) and even then, cards like Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, Unsommon, On Thin Ice, Chained to the Rocks or such are available since turn 1 of game. But really, seeing a Blight Colossus turn 1 because of a turn 1 Dreampod and casually you are the first player starting too, its just so unlikely it's not even worth to even mention solutions really.
The Maelstrom is already a different case, because it does easily whiffs lots of time (revealing instant or sorceries) or simply not relevent enough stuff (like lands, mana rocks and such)
The Aether Flues is like Dreampods but you need creatures in play so it's unlikely it will ever do something even turn 1 of game. (granted we're talking EDH; which is the only format where planechase make sense to me)
Also, if you mention stuff like Quicksilver Sea and Eldrazi Field, it really proves that you have no idea of what are you actually talking about and that you definitely did not play enough time the format. First of all, to cast free with Quicksilver you actually need to do the Chaos symbol with the planar dice and you think is that easy to pull of that symbol with only 1/6 chance to do it, only 1-2 attempts at turn (if we're talking early game as you say) and with another chance to just change the plane altogether? Really, dude? And don't get me started with the eldrazi plane. Not only you must be lucky enough to have turn 1, not only you must be lucky enough that the other players of the pods meanwhile doesn't leave the plane before you got your chance to even make an eldrazi, not only if you actually manage to make the 1/6 chance to do the eldrazi it won't even able to nothing while we're in the plane, not only your eldrazi must be alive the times somebody rolls the "travel the planes" symbol...do I have to continue just to show how preposterous and specious are your arguments, and everything you fear of, its simply not likely to happen at all practically?
I mean, did you had unlucky games with Planes? Cool, it happens, I have unlucky and *****ty games with regular magic of all formats all the time. But you can't really blame the planes themselves only because of your bad luck or anything, because then you find people like me, that play this format for 10 years consecutively with any type of playgroups, and, you know, simply raise an eyebrow every time I see this type of complaining (just to be clear : It's perfectly legit to say "I dont like planechase / it's not for me / I don't like random and unpredictable splashy effects in a game". What is NOT legit is saying instead "this format is objectively unplayable and broken for everybody just because I had a bad experience with it.", which is pretty much what all people disliking the format are saying in this thread)
It isn't that all games with Planechase are bad... its that some of them are TERRIBLE, and others are just typical Magic games... It rarely adds to the experience and sometimes CRUSHES it.
I played a LOT of planechase, both before and after Planechase2, originally I was super excited, but over time we realized it wasn't actually adding anything to the games and the games we talked about were either complaints or games where the planes really didn't do anything. So we stopped using them. At that point most of our games were 5-8 people playing 60 card kitchen table decks (mostly modern decks, but officially legacy decks... we typically didn't play dual lands or other legacy cards (sol ring, etc) but if you wanted to play something that was fun you could.). I have heard good things about formats that use Planechase cards but do something different with them (build a map and let you chose which direction you planeswalk when you do so you can maybe get back to that crazy plane and try again) but that just shows that people like the idea of planechase more then the actuality of planechase...
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(U/B) is :symbu: or :symub: and the same is true for the other 9 hybrid symbols with their two colors in for the last 2 leters of the code. ((2/B) and co are :sym2b:)
Alternatively {UB} or {2B} in [mana] tags are (U/B) or (2/B) T is :symtap: and T will give T in [mana] tags
I don't conduct market research, and WotC doesn't publish theirs... but Mark Rosewater has made comments in the past about planechase's sales and such... a quick search isn't showing anything glaring at the moment but if it was popular and lasting then the answer here: https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/183033726313/ifwhen-more-planechase
wouldn't be 'minor'...
If it was as wildly unpopular as you're saying, then wouldn't the answer be "if" rather than "when"?
It wasn't wildly unpopular... People really liked the idea, they wanted it to be good... but it wasn't so they didn't keep playing it long term.
Its a WHEN because people WANT it... just like the decided that despite Tribal being BAD, people still played it so they decided to make a set based on tribal and it was super popular... so Planechase is a WHEN, because they understand there is a desire for a good Planechase... but it is a minor when because PC2 was a disappointment due to people getting tired of PC1 before it came out.
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(U/B) is :symbu: or :symub: and the same is true for the other 9 hybrid symbols with their two colors in for the last 2 leters of the code. ((2/B) and co are :sym2b:)
Alternatively {UB} or {2B} in [mana] tags are (U/B) or (2/B) T is :symtap: and T will give T in [mana] tags
It wasn't wildly unpopular... People really liked the idea, they wanted it to be good... but it wasn't so they didn't keep playing it long term.
Its a WHEN because people WANT it... just like the decided that despite Tribal being BAD, people still played it so they decided to make a set based on tribal and it was super popular... so Planechase is a WHEN, because they understand there is a desire for a good Planechase... but it is a minor when because PC2 was a disappointment due to people getting tired of PC1 before it came out.
Has there any clear statement that Planechase 2012 was a disappointment? Again I'm not disagreeing, I'm just not aware of anything being said that would point to that being a definitive fact. It's entirely anecdotal, but I worked at an LGS when Planechase 2012 came out and it sold far above our expectations. I know you're saying that you saw comments after Planechase 2012 that a third Planechase wasn't coming soon, but that doesn't necessarily mean Planechase 2012 was a disappointment in terms of sales or reception. It could just as easily be that the previous year's Commander Pre-Cons were extremely popular causing them to shift to using Commander decks as the summer multiplayer product, or that other ideas came up which they wanted to explore, like Conspiracy and Battlebond.
I'm not trying to say that anything you're saying is wrong, but it just seems like you're saying certain things are objectively true when there isn't anything to support them. And I get that a lack of statement from WotC saying Planechase was disliked or disappointment financially doesn't mean that it was especially well-liked or financially successful. But if we have no actual information from Wizards, then all anyone can offer is there personal experiences and observations, which definitely aren't objective facts.
I did a quick search earlier and didn’t find any of the comments I remember, and none of them were particularly strong. I had lots of conversations in the aftermath of PC2 with a variety of people and came to conclusions… they aren’t facts, they are well reasoned opinions from as diverse Data as I can get, but not hard numbers.
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(U/B) is :symbu: or :symub: and the same is true for the other 9 hybrid symbols with their two colors in for the last 2 leters of the code. ((2/B) and co are :sym2b:)
Alternatively {UB} or {2B} in [mana] tags are (U/B) or (2/B) T is :symtap: and T will give T in [mana] tags
When it first came out is was new and exciting and people flocked to it... it quickly died down and became harder to get people to play it or find people playing it, that is my experience at multiple stores and from talking to many people, and from reading between the lines of what WotC does and says about it.
That tends to be true when something ages and it becomes harder to find/acquire. Just like Vanguard isn't played because it's hard to get and Brawl isn't played because its' Brawl.
I have heard good things about formats that use Planechase cards but do something different with them (build a map and let you chose which direction you planeswalk when you do so you can maybe get back to that crazy plane and try again) but that just shows that people like the idea of planechase more then the actuality of planechase...
I have really no idea how to say it, because I said this already multiple times since the beginning of the thread. Repetita Juvant:
Dude I said it. Since 2012 (9 years of playing) multiple playgroups in all these years, both LGS, Comic-cons and Kitchen Table, all enjoying exactly like me. Even in this same thread you have multiple evidence of people enjoying the format besides me.
You have the cognitive bias that simply because you or your friend don't like something or is simply not for you, then all the world have your same feelings about that thing. Get rid of that illusion.
Me and all the dozens of people I play Planechase with for almost a DECADE (which most likely is much more games and playtesting of this format than you or your friends ever tried in your whole life) almost always extremely enjoyed our Planechase games in all these years and we alone are already the living proof the what I quoted you in the bold part is just plain FALSE and WRONG, and that you should stop spreading that disinformation. Please get rid of your ideological prejudice and actually see the complex reality around you because you look no different from any delusional negationist at this point.
they aren’t facts, they are well reasoned opinions
/thread
wotc has the market datas. If planechase was successfull, they are going to print another one.
Personally i think that we won't see planechase for a long time because there is no space for it, too many products.
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
they aren’t facts, they are well reasoned opinions
/thread
wotc has the market datas. If planechase was successfull, they are going to print another one.
Personally i think that we won't see planechase for a long time because there is no space for it, too many products.
GPs were popular, now there's so many of-.....nevermind.
Personally i think that we won't see planechase for a long time because there is no space for it, too many products.
Wouldn't that be an argument in favor of a product that covers both Commander and Planechase? A 2-for-1 product?
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Quote from Conuly »
Heck, every day I wake up, I don't go out and kill people - and I'm rewarded by not having legions of enemies! Amazing how that works.
Although ninjas are experts of camouflage and concealment, they are actually horrible liars. This means that no matter where you are, you can shout out, “Are there any ninjas here?” and if there’s a ninja within earshot, he’ll be compelled to respond.
Wouldn't that be an argument in favor of a product that covers both Commander and Planechase? A 2-for-1 product?
Well... do they want to risk changing one of their best selling products to appeal a not so big niche of customers? I don't think so, even if i hope because i am a planechase fan.
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Well... do they want to risk changing one of their best selling products to appeal a not so big niche of customers? I don't think so, even if i hope because i am a planechase fan.
Considering they're pushing out Warhammer Commander decks soon, I think they're fine with selling products to appeal to a not so big niche. While yes Warhammer is far more popular than Planechase, that's kind of the entire point of UB, selling a product with a combination of IP to people who happen to like both which in a way is niche.
Dude I said it. Since 2012 (9 years of playing) multiple playgroups in all these years, both LGS, Comic-cons and Kitchen Table, all enjoying exactly like me. Even in this same thread you have multiple evidence of people enjoying the format besides me.
You have the cognitive bias that simply because you or your friend don't like something or is simply not for you, then all the world have your same feelings about that thing. Get rid of that illusion.
I am sorry, but you are the one with the cognitive bias. I understand that there is a group that really truly enjoys Planechase. I have no doubt that you have played more games of it then I have, but I have played a lot of games of it. I have talked to different people that have played Planechase over the years, some want to play and can't find a group, some used to enjoy it and grew out of it, others tried it, didn't like it and quit. I understand what about it is appealing to different groups of players and how long each group plays it for. I have tried to fix it for my group and spent a lot of time figuring out exactly what about it doesn't work and what about it does. There was a time I was looking forward to a new set of planes and hoping it became a semi-regular thing. I then found out that the new set made the game worse not better and I spent a lot more time figuring out why and talking with a lot more people...
If Planechase was half as popular as you think it is... they would have done PC3 by now. 2009 for the original release, 2012 for the second set... Archenemy came out in 2010 and Nicol Bolas came out in 2017... and that is the best chance for another Planechase... the 'boardgame' slot (game night, Archenemy Nicol Bolas, and Explorers of Ixalan) and even then likely only when the year's story is centered on planeswalking... so if the story takes a turn in the direction of Sliders... look for the boardgame slot that year to be a Planechase set.
I am not trying to confront you or convince you, or prove anything, or change the chances of WotC doing anything. I am trying to explain why they haven't done anything up to this point and help set expectations for people hoping for something. The fact that this thread has such low participation shows that Planechase isn't popular... most of the board members are ignoring this thread because it isn't something they care about. I am glad you enjoy planechase, I think that's great. I think you should continue to play it.
I play Horde (The original Theros Challenger decks, face the hydra for example) and my current play group really enjoys it. I have shared it with other groups and most of them have enjoyed it a lot. I understand it isn't for everyone and I understand the types of players that like it and the types that don't. I am sad there isn't a larger community online that plays it and builds Horde decks... but I have a relatively clear understanding of the format and the players who do and don't like it. I believe a have a similar understanding of Planechase, and I believe the fact that WotC hasn't printed more Challenger decks and hasn't printed more Planechase decks... supports my understanding of the formats.
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(U/B) is :symbu: or :symub: and the same is true for the other 9 hybrid symbols with their two colors in for the last 2 leters of the code. ((2/B) and co are :sym2b:)
Alternatively {UB} or {2B} in [mana] tags are (U/B) or (2/B) T is :symtap: and T will give T in [mana] tags
I understand that there is a group that really truly enjoys Planechase.
Really? Because those words seems to say the opposite actually:
that just shows that people like the idea of planechase more then the actuality of planechase...
In the exact moment you are saying this, you are literally making a generalization. When you say "people like" you are actually implying "ALL people like", while if you actually just said "most people like" that was already a totally different sentence.
I don't care of how many people actually enjoy the format, it is not the point I wanna prove in this thread. I just want to disproves anyone saying in this thread that "nobody likes this format if they play it well enough", which is literally what multiple users said in this thread. If you're not one of them, then good, we can close the argument, just next time speak in a more proper manner, because you just sounds like all the other negationists of this thread.
I dont have cognitive bias because you simply didn't understand what was my point at all (and I tought I was clear enough in my posts)
Anyway also keep in mind planechase 2 only had like 2 decks. One of them basically being tribal. There were some hot cards, but not an abundance of them so value at the time was minimal. This makes the product much harder to sell as it appeals to even less audience. Id be skeptical of anything claiming it makes the entire product line unpopular and a failure.
I see a lot of people here saying they loved it. Thats been my experience too - as i had said earlier.
Its also been my experience that the people who hate it really hate it and have to shove that down everyones throat as if theyre all wrong about it. I see that trend continues to prove itself in this thread too.
Honestly, in the era where everything has a variant printing, and universes beyond is also a thing, where we venture into dungeons and get flip cards every other set. why cant there be room for this too? Its just another way to play, and its optional, unlike everything else.
Anyway also keep in mind planechase 2 only had like 2 decks. One of them basically being tribal.
Yeah the decks where extremely crappy. The ninja tribal deck with only 2 new ninjas and a legendary that isn't ninja tribal? Compare that to the popularity of Yuriko and the new ninjas of MH1 to understand how properly do a new ninja cards. Kinda the same for Thromok and especially Krond. Krond and his new cards were extremely crappy.
It was basically wotcs trying to cather to commander player without fully committing and without also fully understanding the format.
Most of people who bought the decks throw them away after 2 seconds, keeping only the planes.
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
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Alternatively {UB} or {2B} in [mana] tags are (U/B) or (2/B)
T is :symtap: and T will give T in [mana] tags
If it was as wildly unpopular as you're saying, then wouldn't the answer be "if" rather than "when"?
It isn't that all games with Planechase are bad... its that some of them are TERRIBLE, and others are just typical Magic games... It rarely adds to the experience and sometimes CRUSHES it.
I played a LOT of planechase, both before and after Planechase2, originally I was super excited, but over time we realized it wasn't actually adding anything to the games and the games we talked about were either complaints or games where the planes really didn't do anything. So we stopped using them. At that point most of our games were 5-8 people playing 60 card kitchen table decks (mostly modern decks, but officially legacy decks... we typically didn't play dual lands or other legacy cards (sol ring, etc) but if you wanted to play something that was fun you could.). I have heard good things about formats that use Planechase cards but do something different with them (build a map and let you chose which direction you planeswalk when you do so you can maybe get back to that crazy plane and try again) but that just shows that people like the idea of planechase more then the actuality of planechase...
Alternatively {UB} or {2B} in [mana] tags are (U/B) or (2/B)
T is :symtap: and T will give T in [mana] tags
Its a WHEN because people WANT it... just like the decided that despite Tribal being BAD, people still played it so they decided to make a set based on tribal and it was super popular... so Planechase is a WHEN, because they understand there is a desire for a good Planechase... but it is a minor when because PC2 was a disappointment due to people getting tired of PC1 before it came out.
Alternatively {UB} or {2B} in [mana] tags are (U/B) or (2/B)
T is :symtap: and T will give T in [mana] tags
Has there any clear statement that Planechase 2012 was a disappointment? Again I'm not disagreeing, I'm just not aware of anything being said that would point to that being a definitive fact. It's entirely anecdotal, but I worked at an LGS when Planechase 2012 came out and it sold far above our expectations. I know you're saying that you saw comments after Planechase 2012 that a third Planechase wasn't coming soon, but that doesn't necessarily mean Planechase 2012 was a disappointment in terms of sales or reception. It could just as easily be that the previous year's Commander Pre-Cons were extremely popular causing them to shift to using Commander decks as the summer multiplayer product, or that other ideas came up which they wanted to explore, like Conspiracy and Battlebond.
I'm not trying to say that anything you're saying is wrong, but it just seems like you're saying certain things are objectively true when there isn't anything to support them. And I get that a lack of statement from WotC saying Planechase was disliked or disappointment financially doesn't mean that it was especially well-liked or financially successful. But if we have no actual information from Wizards, then all anyone can offer is there personal experiences and observations, which definitely aren't objective facts.
Alternatively {UB} or {2B} in [mana] tags are (U/B) or (2/B)
T is :symtap: and T will give T in [mana] tags
That tends to be true when something ages and it becomes harder to find/acquire. Just like Vanguard isn't played because it's hard to get and Brawl isn't played because its' Brawl.
I have really no idea how to say it, because I said this already multiple times since the beginning of the thread. Repetita Juvant:
Dude I said it. Since 2012 (9 years of playing) multiple playgroups in all these years, both LGS, Comic-cons and Kitchen Table, all enjoying exactly like me. Even in this same thread you have multiple evidence of people enjoying the format besides me.
You have the cognitive bias that simply because you or your friend don't like something or is simply not for you, then all the world have your same feelings about that thing. Get rid of that illusion.
Me and all the dozens of people I play Planechase with for almost a DECADE (which most likely is much more games and playtesting of this format than you or your friends ever tried in your whole life) almost always extremely enjoyed our Planechase games in all these years and we alone are already the living proof the what I quoted you in the bold part is just plain FALSE and WRONG, and that you should stop spreading that disinformation. Please get rid of your ideological prejudice and actually see the complex reality around you because you look no different from any delusional negationist at this point.
/thread
wotc has the market datas. If planechase was successfull, they are going to print another one.
Personally i think that we won't see planechase for a long time because there is no space for it, too many products.
GPs were popular, now there's so many of-.....nevermind.
Wouldn't that be an argument in favor of a product that covers both Commander and Planechase? A 2-for-1 product?
Although ninjas are experts of camouflage and concealment, they are actually horrible liars. This means that no matter where you are, you can shout out, “Are there any ninjas here?” and if there’s a ninja within earshot, he’ll be compelled to respond.
Well... do they want to risk changing one of their best selling products to appeal a not so big niche of customers? I don't think so, even if i hope because i am a planechase fan.
Considering they're pushing out Warhammer Commander decks soon, I think they're fine with selling products to appeal to a not so big niche. While yes Warhammer is far more popular than Planechase, that's kind of the entire point of UB, selling a product with a combination of IP to people who happen to like both which in a way is niche.
I am sorry, but you are the one with the cognitive bias. I understand that there is a group that really truly enjoys Planechase. I have no doubt that you have played more games of it then I have, but I have played a lot of games of it. I have talked to different people that have played Planechase over the years, some want to play and can't find a group, some used to enjoy it and grew out of it, others tried it, didn't like it and quit. I understand what about it is appealing to different groups of players and how long each group plays it for. I have tried to fix it for my group and spent a lot of time figuring out exactly what about it doesn't work and what about it does. There was a time I was looking forward to a new set of planes and hoping it became a semi-regular thing. I then found out that the new set made the game worse not better and I spent a lot more time figuring out why and talking with a lot more people...
If Planechase was half as popular as you think it is... they would have done PC3 by now. 2009 for the original release, 2012 for the second set... Archenemy came out in 2010 and Nicol Bolas came out in 2017... and that is the best chance for another Planechase... the 'boardgame' slot (game night, Archenemy Nicol Bolas, and Explorers of Ixalan) and even then likely only when the year's story is centered on planeswalking... so if the story takes a turn in the direction of Sliders... look for the boardgame slot that year to be a Planechase set.
I am not trying to confront you or convince you, or prove anything, or change the chances of WotC doing anything. I am trying to explain why they haven't done anything up to this point and help set expectations for people hoping for something. The fact that this thread has such low participation shows that Planechase isn't popular... most of the board members are ignoring this thread because it isn't something they care about. I am glad you enjoy planechase, I think that's great. I think you should continue to play it.
I play Horde (The original Theros Challenger decks, face the hydra for example) and my current play group really enjoys it. I have shared it with other groups and most of them have enjoyed it a lot. I understand it isn't for everyone and I understand the types of players that like it and the types that don't. I am sad there isn't a larger community online that plays it and builds Horde decks... but I have a relatively clear understanding of the format and the players who do and don't like it. I believe a have a similar understanding of Planechase, and I believe the fact that WotC hasn't printed more Challenger decks and hasn't printed more Planechase decks... supports my understanding of the formats.
Alternatively {UB} or {2B} in [mana] tags are (U/B) or (2/B)
T is :symtap: and T will give T in [mana] tags
Really? Because those words seems to say the opposite actually:
that just shows that people like the idea of planechase more then the actuality of planechase...
In the exact moment you are saying this, you are literally making a generalization. When you say "people like" you are actually implying "ALL people like", while if you actually just said "most people like" that was already a totally different sentence.
I don't care of how many people actually enjoy the format, it is not the point I wanna prove in this thread. I just want to disproves anyone saying in this thread that "nobody likes this format if they play it well enough", which is literally what multiple users said in this thread. If you're not one of them, then good, we can close the argument, just next time speak in a more proper manner, because you just sounds like all the other negationists of this thread.
I dont have cognitive bias because you simply didn't understand what was my point at all (and I tought I was clear enough in my posts)
Anyway also keep in mind planechase 2 only had like 2 decks. One of them basically being tribal. There were some hot cards, but not an abundance of them so value at the time was minimal. This makes the product much harder to sell as it appeals to even less audience. Id be skeptical of anything claiming it makes the entire product line unpopular and a failure.
I see a lot of people here saying they loved it. Thats been my experience too - as i had said earlier.
Its also been my experience that the people who hate it really hate it and have to shove that down everyones throat as if theyre all wrong about it. I see that trend continues to prove itself in this thread too.
Honestly, in the era where everything has a variant printing, and universes beyond is also a thing, where we venture into dungeons and get flip cards every other set. why cant there be room for this too? Its just another way to play, and its optional, unlike everything else.
Yeah the decks where extremely crappy. The ninja tribal deck with only 2 new ninjas and a legendary that isn't ninja tribal? Compare that to the popularity of Yuriko and the new ninjas of MH1 to understand how properly do a new ninja cards. Kinda the same for Thromok and especially Krond. Krond and his new cards were extremely crappy.
It was basically wotcs trying to cather to commander player without fully committing and without also fully understanding the format.
Most of people who bought the decks throw them away after 2 seconds, keeping only the planes.