I have to say I'm not a fan at all of the whole concept of "online-only" cards that are legals only in those digitals formats. It is an extremely frustrating concept for paper only players that enjoy to play Magic within all cards and strategies availables.
It is not the first time they do this. They already did this with introduction cards for beginners . The worst thing is, that even if the cards never meant to be constructed playable, in fact few of those were good enough that would be today even staples in EDH casual games (Yes, Inspiring Commander, great draw engine extremely need it for monowhite or boros decks, I look at you)
Now what if this time they make again, even unintentionally, new cards actually playable and extremely fun to play in multiple formats but that we will never have a chance to play them in any LGS tournament of any format or even in casual kitchen table games (I mean sure, printing them proxy is always an option, but is not normal that is the only default way to play them and not the extrema ratio way)?
That's why I'm definitely NOT A FAN of this. It's even worse than the whole "Universe Beyond" thing (and I'm in favor of that). I mean, at least I know that in a way or another I will be able to play the UB cards in some way, those will never be legal in Commander despite being in black border and perfectly functional within the rules and color pie, no matter what.
I'd be more okay with digital only cards if they did things that would be impossible or impractical to do in real life. Example: an artifact that gives you a random card into your hand based on some color mana you pay into it (pay U get a blue card, pay WU get a white and blue card).
I'd be more okay with digital only cards if they did things that would be impossible or impractical to do in real life. Example: an artifact that gives you a random card into your hand based on some color mana you pay into it (pay U get a blue card, pay WU get a white and blue card).
Which is exactly what they not did last time they did the "digital only" cards. What is the reason to not have Inspiring Commander as a great card legal in EDH or even standard? Nothing. This is the kind of stuff I'm pissed of.
I'd be more okay with digital only cards if they did things that would be impossible or impractical to do in real life. Example: an artifact that gives you a random card into your hand based on some color mana you pay into it (pay U get a blue card, pay WU get a white and blue card).
Which is exactly what they not did last time they did the "digital only" cards. What is the reason to not have Inspiring Commander as a great card legal in EDH or even standard? Nothing. This is the kind of stuff I'm pissed of.
Well that's entirely what they're doing this time.
Quote from Mark Rosewater »
The digital only cards only work on digital. They aren’t cards we can make in paper. Magic is a game of many formats and different formats use different cards.
Also, Inspiring Commander is a massive color pie break. I'm sure mono-red would love their own Krosan Grip and green would love their own Doom Blade, but breaking the color pie is bad for the format as a whole. White really needs help, but undermining its inherent weaknesses is not the way to do it. I understand that most people want white to be good, but I hope this puts things into perspective: green used to be the worst color in the game. It's gotten a lot of clear color pie breaks in the intervening years, and that's why it's so obnoxiously powerful now. It has no weaknesses to balance out its considerable strengths. And the damage is permanent. I don't want white to become that in the future.
Please, mill me. Mill my important cards. Mill my lands. Mill it all. Because I will still deal 20 damage before you can mill 45 cards most every time.
Also, Inspiring Commander is a massive color pie break.
Absolutely not. It fits in the "draw only within a subset theme that white cares about"*, and white cares about drawing off for little creatures (see Mentor of the Meek)
In fact white has already unlimited card draw for equipped creatures (Stone Haven Outfitter) or Aura, Equipments and Vechicles (Sram, Senior Edificer or because it gain life (Dawn in Hope) This is in total spirit of white card draw, there's no way you can tell me it's a massive break since it is exactly the type of narrow card draw white do since forever.
Well that's entirely what they're doing this time
Seems I misread MaRo answer somehow. But anyway, doing a Shandalar videogame cards 2.0 doesn't seems that great idea and I believe that any single card design could and should work in paper too (for example, even if isn't tournament or edh legal, you could play Urza, Academy Headmaster in paper by simply printing in a piece of paper all his abilities and just throw a D20 for the random result of each slot). What I'm saying that those card should be printable and playable also in papaer, I'm opposing the whole concept of "online only" thing for very little gain for a bunch of gimmick and silly designs and nothing else.
Also, Inspiring Commander is a massive color pie break.
Mentor of the Meek proves you wrong. You're gonna have to do an entire mental Olympics and a marathon to explain how "white caring about small creatures" and white gaining life from creatures entering the battlefield is a color pie break, 'cause I'd love to hear it.
Maro has stated multiple times, that Mentor of the Meek and Dawn of Hope are considered color pie breaks too.
And Maro stated that Magic would never have crossovers and yet here we are with three having happened already and another two that we know of on the way. Believe it or not, but Maro is not the final word when it comes to Magic and he makes plenty of mistakes within Magic. He says a lot of things that are contradictory.
White drawing cards from life gain or small creatures is no more a color pie break as red dealing direct damage or blue having efficient small creatures. Survival Cache is based on life gain, Oloro is primarily white caring about life gain, just a splash of black, and blue is just tacked on. Even Bygone Bishop would be considered small creature draw akin to Mentor of the Meek.
If drawing by life gain and small creatures is such a problem perhaps that might be why white is so behind when it comes to card draw and general power. If green can care about large creatures why can't white care about small creatures? If white isn't the color caring about life gain to draw cards then should be? Which color is it appropriate for? Back in the day blue could do everything in the name of the color pie, nowadays outside of countering spells green can do basically anything. Pretty sure we can give white life gain/small creature draw.
Maro has stated multiple times, that Mentor of the Meek and Dawn of Hope are considered color pie breaks too.
And Maro stated that Magic would never have crossovers and yet here we are with three having happened already and another two that we know of on the way. Believe it or not, but Maro is not the final word when it comes to Magic and he makes plenty of mistakes within Magic. He says a lot of things that are contradictory.
This does not mean statements from MaRo about the colour pie are not important.
White drawing cards from life gain or small creatures is no more a color pie break as red dealing direct damage or blue having efficient small creatures.
Yes it is.
White can get effects that draw cards for doing white things if they only draw one card per turn. That is the recently established rule that WotC (and not just Mark Rosewater) decided on.
It is always possible this could change, it is new after all, but it is definitely still wrong to suggest Mentor of the Meek-esque cards are in colour pie even if theoretically they could be brought back in for some reason.
If drawing by life gain and small creatures is such a problem perhaps that might be why white is so behind when it comes to card draw and general power.
White is supposed to be behind on card draw, so giving white more card draw can't just be slapping card draw in there. That's why they've been pushing a bunch of different unique card draw effects for white to try new things that could fit into white without just letting it draw cards whenever.
If green can care about large creatures why can't white care about small creatures?
White can care about small creatures. That's not the issue.
If white isn't the color caring about life gain to draw cards then should be? Which color is it appropriate for?
There doesn't necessarily need to be assigned single colours for every possible effect. Some effects are multicolour only or shared by colours each doing it a little bit. Regardless, in this case, the answer is actually white—just as long as it's only once per turn.
Back in the day blue could do everything in the name of the color pie, nowadays outside of countering spells green can do basically anything. Pretty sure we can give white life gain/small creature draw.
Blue being broken in the early magic and green being too pushed in recent sets are both *terrible* reasons why it's okay to put effects into white.
Power balance is also not on the only consideration with the colour pie. There's always a question of feel. The colours don't exist purely for balance reasons, after all, they are supposed to have a certain style. You could just put a bunch of overcosted divinations and harmonizes into white and it still be the worst colour in card draw, but would that be fun? Would it feel like white can't draw cards in the same way as other colours, or would it just feel like white card draw is just *****ty? Would people want to play those cards in the first place, even if maybe it made sense to include some because they were better than nothing, would people enjoy it?
Now look at the card draw effects WotC has been giving to white. The only once per turn version, for instance, requires you to put time and effort into triggering the ability each turn over several turns to really load up on cards, so the card draw has limitations, but those limitations also feel very white, planning and patience and such, the cards don't have to be bad, especially if the cards have other utility, and it's fun to play because you can work with its weakness.
That's why those effects are being tried out, and it's why I think those are good ideas.
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On the subject of digital-only cards, I'm inclined to say I dislike the idea. I can see how in this case they have reasoning as to why it might not be that big of a deal as these cards are probably designed for jumpstart and casual play, but the more WotC does it the more likely cards are to become sought-after for paper players, and even if they aren't competitive, people will want them anyway. I do also dislike the idea of digital becoming potentially increasingly different from paper play with different formats, cards, who knows what else. There's a limit there this might be straying into.
That said, hopefully, if they do indeed do this, these cards will receive paper printings sometime in the near future after digital release in much the same way the Universes Beyond cards have been marked to see paper printings. After how Secret Lairs and Universes Beyond went down, if that idea isn't something they at least already have in mind as a strong possibility, I would be surprised.
Assuming let's say then that they do that, that does mean I couldn't say I hate this idea like I might otherwise, but I'm still not sure if I like it.
This does not mean statements from MaRo about the colour pie are not important.
But they can be more easily dismissed when the one saying them has been highly contradictory. The same man that touted "our playtest team will allow a more balanced Standard" and then we get Eldraine, Ikoria, companions, Oko, Uro, and a year of sets with constant overpowered cards that warped near every format.
Sorry, but if a person I don't trust tells me that it's "raining outside" and even if I can hear the rain hit the house I'm still looking outside out of sheer distrust.
White can get effects that draw cards for doing white things if they only draw one card per turn.
Life gain and small creatures were the "white things" it was doing, the once per turn thing was slapped on needlessly. White wasn't even getting draw all that commonly for a restriction to be necessary. Don't you find it weird they slapped on that clause while they print stuff like The Great Henge? Where's the "green can get effects that draw cards for doing green things if they only draw one card per turn?" What's so special about white that it needs to be handicapped? That's the issue. No other color gets that strange stipulation tacked on.
That is the recently established rule that WotC (and not just Mark Rosewater) decided on.
It is always possible this could change, it is new after all, but it is definitely still wrong to suggest Mentor of the Meek-esque cards are in colour pie even if theoretically they could be brought back in for some reason.
I'm sure it will change, it's changed before half a dozen times in the past and it will do it again, but that doesn't make this current iteration not head scratching-ly befuddling.
]White is supposed to be behind on card draw,
Neither was green or red, but we've seen how the first is insane at it now and the later has its own version of draw that's great in its own ways while white.....sometimes gets to do it once a turn, but only if Daddy says yes.
so giving white more card draw can't just be slapping card draw in there.
Yeah, that's green's job now.
That's why they've been pushing a bunch of different unique card draw effects for white to try new things that could fit into white without just letting it draw cards whenever.
Letting it draw cards whenever? It's not like white was getting "at the beginning of your draw step draw an extra card" it was "if you gain life/small creature ETB pay mana to draw a card." Practically all of white's constant draw you had to pay to do it. Mentor was 1 mana, Bishop and Dawn of Hope was 2 mana,
Also, "unique effects"? Artifact/enchantment ETB once a turn is not unique. Wait, sorry it is unique because it they slapped on a unique restriction. The other draw it's been getting is only if your opponent does stuff to you/your permanents or does some stuff too often, both seen very little so far.
White can care about small creatures. That's not the issue.
Clearly it is if something like Mentor of the Meek or Bygone Bishop is now "wrong". Mentor was just seen in Standard up until two years ago and somehow in that brief a time it went from acceptable to "color pie break", doesn't that sound a little absurd? It's not even that good of a card and now it's "wrong." It's baffling.
There doesn't necessarily need to be assigned single colours for every possible effect.
Assigning colors to certain actions is literally what the color pie is about.
Blue being broken in the early magic and green being too pushed in recent sets are both *terrible* reasons why it's okay to put effects into white.
Draw effects in the things that white is good at? Yes. Why is that such an issue?
Blue draws card because it can, green draws cards if you play Magic, black draws at the cost of life, and red gets impulse draw, but white.....can't have draw for doing some of the stuff its good at because that would be bad if all five colors got consistent rules with its draw? No, only one gets a "once a turn" clause just because it was a naughty child this year and gets coal for Christmas.
Power balance is also not on the only consideration with the colour pie. There's always a question of feel. The colours don't exist purely for balance reasons, after all, they are supposed to have a certain style. You could just put a bunch of overcosted divinations and harmonizes into white and it still be the worst colour in card draw, but would that be fun? Would it feel like white can't draw cards in the same way as other colours, or would it just feel like white card draw is just *****ty? Would people want to play those cards in the first place, even if maybe it made sense to include some because they were better than nothing, would people enjoy it?
I'm not even really sure what you're saying here. People wouldn't play a white Harmonize (which by the way was a color shift and wasn't supposed to be normalized, but now green it's so common in green you expect it) because they may not enjoy it? I'm just gonna take a shot in the dark and say because they play it in green they might like it in a color that doesn't have decent draw where the best draw spell also gives your opponents cards.
Now look at the card draw effects WotC has been giving to white. The only once per turn version, for instance, requires you to put time and effort into triggering the ability each turn over several turns to really load up on cards, so the card draw has limitations, but those limitations also feel very white, planning and patience and such, the cards don't have to be bad, especially if the cards have other utility, and it's fun to play because you can work with its weakness.
That's why those effects are being tried out, and it's why I think those are good ideas.
And drawing cards from life gain and small creatures were the time/effort, the limitations were life gain isn't the greatest and small creatures are easy to get rid of, but I guess we need to nerf white because....something something "new color pie" something something dark side.
Yes it is.
White can get effects that draw cards for doing white things if they only draw one card per turn. That is the recently established rule that WotC (and not just Mark Rosewater) decided on.
It is always possible this could change, it is new after all, but it is definitely still wrong to suggest Mentor of the Meek-esque cards are in colour pie even if theoretically they could be brought back in for some reason.
Flavor justification for these restrictions that only white seems to get is still kind of up in the air.
This does not mean statements from MaRo about the colour pie are not important.
But they can be more easily dismissed when the one saying them has been highly contradictory. The same man that touted "our playtest team will allow a more balanced Standard" and then we get Eldraine, Ikoria, companions, Oko, Uro, and a year of sets with constant overpowered cards that warped near every format.
Sorry, but if a person I don't trust tells me that it's "raining outside" and even if I can hear the rain hit the house I'm still looking outside out of sheer distrust.
White can get effects that draw cards for doing white things if they only draw one card per turn.
Life gain and small creatures were the "white things" it was doing, the once per turn thing was slapped on needlessly. White wasn't even getting draw all that commonly for a restriction to be necessary. Don't you find it weird they slapped on that clause while they print stuff like The Great Henge? Where's the "green can get effects that draw cards for doing green things if they only draw one card per turn?" What's so special about white that it needs to be handicapped? That's the issue. No other color gets that strange stipulation tacked on.
That is the recently established rule that WotC (and not just Mark Rosewater) decided on.
It is always possible this could change, it is new after all, but it is definitely still wrong to suggest Mentor of the Meek-esque cards are in colour pie even if theoretically they could be brought back in for some reason.
I'm sure it will change, it's changed before half a dozen times in the past and it will do it again, but that doesn't make this current iteration not head scratching-ly befuddling.
]White is supposed to be behind on card draw,
Neither was green or red, but we've seen how the first is insane at it now and the later has its own version of draw that's great in its own ways while white.....sometimes gets to do it once a turn, but only if Daddy says yes.
so giving white more card draw can't just be slapping card draw in there.
Yeah, that's green's job now.
That's why they've been pushing a bunch of different unique card draw effects for white to try new things that could fit into white without just letting it draw cards whenever.
Letting it draw cards whenever? It's not like white was getting "at the beginning of your draw step draw an extra card" it was "if you gain life/small creature ETB pay mana to draw a card." Practically all of white's constant draw you had to pay to do it. Mentor was 1 mana, Bishop and Dawn of Hope was 2 mana,
Also, "unique effects"? Artifact/enchantment ETB once a turn is not unique. Wait, sorry it is unique because it they slapped on a unique restriction. The other draw it's been getting is only if your opponent does stuff to you/your permanents or does some stuff too often, both seen very little so far.
White can care about small creatures. That's not the issue.
Clearly it is if something like Mentor of the Meek or Bygone Bishop is now "wrong". Mentor was just seen in Standard up until two years ago and somehow in that brief a time it went from acceptable to "color pie break", doesn't that sound a little absurd? It's not even that good of a card and now it's "wrong." It's baffling.
There doesn't necessarily need to be assigned single colours for every possible effect.
Assigning colors to certain actions is literally what the color pie is about.
Blue being broken in the early magic and green being too pushed in recent sets are both *terrible* reasons why it's okay to put effects into white.
Draw effects in the things that white is good at? Yes. Why is that such an issue?
Blue draws card because it can, green draws cards if you play Magic, black draws at the cost of life, and red gets impulse draw, but white.....can't have draw for doing some of the stuff its good at because that would be bad if all five colors got consistent rules with its draw? No, only one gets a "once a turn" clause just because it was a naughty child this year and gets coal for Christmas.
Power balance is also not on the only consideration with the colour pie. There's always a question of feel. The colours don't exist purely for balance reasons, after all, they are supposed to have a certain style. You could just put a bunch of overcosted divinations and harmonizes into white and it still be the worst colour in card draw, but would that be fun? Would it feel like white can't draw cards in the same way as other colours, or would it just feel like white card draw is just *****ty? Would people want to play those cards in the first place, even if maybe it made sense to include some because they were better than nothing, would people enjoy it?
I'm not even really sure what you're saying here. People wouldn't play a white Harmonize (which by the way was a color shift and wasn't supposed to be normalized, but now green it's so common in green you expect it) because they may not enjoy it? I'm just gonna take a shot in the dark and say because they play it in green they might like it in a color that doesn't have decent draw where the best draw spell also gives your opponents cards.
Now look at the card draw effects WotC has been giving to white. The only once per turn version, for instance, requires you to put time and effort into triggering the ability each turn over several turns to really load up on cards, so the card draw has limitations, but those limitations also feel very white, planning and patience and such, the cards don't have to be bad, especially if the cards have other utility, and it's fun to play because you can work with its weakness.
That's why those effects are being tried out, and it's why I think those are good ideas.
And drawing cards from life gain and small creatures were the time/effort, the limitations were life gain isn't the greatest and small creatures are easy to get rid of, but I guess we need to nerf white because....something something "new color pie" something something dark side.
This is everything people said when green was bad (and it's surprisingly more recent than you think, the stars aligned for Green to go from "eh" to the new blue of Eternal formats in Eldraine), and no one remembers. People remember Red being bad, so no one cares about all the recent Red cards that got banned. You can only have enough "one-time" mistakes between things like Fires of Invention and Tibalt's Trickery that maybe you should think about the color's mechanical space, but no, Red was bad before. I expect more banned Red cards, with zero fanfare about them being Red cards. The Tarrasque got more fanfare about it being a bad homage, despite being an obviously big step in nerfing Green, so I don't know anymore.
Assuming if something's ever been in-color, that it still is somehow, is the exact reason we're in this current mess. The last statements from either Rosewater or Verhey is that Mentor of the Meek is currently "too efficient," Dawn of Hope is pushing the line, and Bygone Bishop requires enough hoops and provides the artifact synergies for it to still be fine. Splitting hairs? Sure, but splitting hairs is what also keeps Red burn spells with set damage values locked up to a certain point from Black's standard removal suite. Is it constantly-changing to the point of annoyance? Yes, but that's because Wizards is changing the color at its usual glacial pace. Consistency comes when something sticks, like impulsive draw in Red being treated as a waste of cardboard outside of RDW until Outpost Siege was printed two years in.
This is everything people said when green was bad (and it's surprisingly more recent than you think, the stars aligned for Green to go from "eh" to the new blue of Eternal formats in Eldraine), and no one remembers. People remember Red being bad, so no one cares about all the recent Red cards that got banned. You can only have enough "one-time" mistakes between things like Fires of Invention and Tibalt's Trickery that maybe you should think about the color's mechanical space, but no, Red was bad before. I expect more banned Red cards, with zero fanfare about them being Red cards. The Tarrasque got more fanfare about it being a bad homage, despite being an obvious step in nerfing Green, so I don't know anymore.
I defiantly remember the shift in green happening with Innistrad 1 and it getting fight effects to help it with removal.
Consistency comes when something sticks, like impulsive draw in Red being treated as a waste of cardboard outside of RDW until Outpost Siege was printed two years in.
To add on, design works around two years in the future so they often go slow since it often a few years for them to feedback from the general player base actually playing with them. They literally just started white getting draw around Eldraine and thus only really now with Innistrad 3 we start to see our feedback on that actually influence design.
Flavor justification for these restrictions that only white seems to get is still kind of up in the air.
Its not flavor its mechanical. White isn't support to be be drawing cards at all (minus cantrips). The reason is in theory as white is the color of effective small and cheap creatures is the only color to by itself get rid of any permanent type and having wraths, giving white draw then would get white get pretty dominate. As see what has happened with green with it being able to ramp, draw and have effective creatures they can use as creature removal. While white can't ramp it would have smaller creatures thus wouldn't need to ramp the way green would.
Maro said design wanted to start making more effective small white creatures (Sigrid, God-Favored is a cheap creature who can be a combat trick and removal, used as an example) and are nervous about also letting other cards let you draw off them so are shifting away from Mentor of the Meek effects. That said they said effective small white creatures also will mean cantrips effects (Priest of Ancient Lore).
Currently they are playing with white getting draw if 1) it lets an opponent also draw, 2) white can set up "rules" that if broke will let the white player draw cards (Esper Sentinel), 2.5) they said Shapers' Sanctuary effects are now white and something they said are leaning into as they already know from past cards how to balance it and 3) giving white cantrips effects to threaten cheap creatures.
Point 2 also opens up "Ward- This creatures control draws a card" to be a white effect.
My wasn’t Cosmos Elixir actually made a white card? It would have made it strictly worse by limiting how many decks it can go in, but it feels like a card that could have been a cool card for white that now every color gets.
Mark:
There’s an alternate reality where we made it white where someone’s writing in asking why it couldn’t have been an artifact, so other colors could have used it.
By the way, while it doesn’t have a white mana symbol in its mana cost, it is a tool easiest used by white.
For what it is worth, I do think in the future this effect can be printed on a monowhite card.
so seems like at least for Maro Survival Cache effects could be white and might work as it limits you to one card per turn and won't also gain you life and draw you cards which can be a bit win more with cards like Dawn of Hope.
Private Mod Note
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
But they can be more easily dismissed when the one saying them has been highly contradictory. The same man that touted "our playtest team will allow a more balanced Standard" and then we get Eldraine, Ikoria, companions, Oko, Uro, and a year of sets with constant overpowered cards that warped near every format.
Sorry, but if a person I don't trust tells me that it's "raining outside" and even if I can hear the rain hit the house I'm still looking outside out of sheer distrust.
If you don't trust the head designer, who is the authority on what's in pie and what isn't? If I say something stupid like "blue should get Lightning Bolt," who are you going to cite to tell me I'm wrong?
Draw effects in the things that white is good at? Yes. Why is that such an issue?
Blue draws card because it can, green draws cards if you play Magic, black draws at the cost of life, and red gets impulse draw, but white.....can't have draw for doing some of the stuff its good at because that would be bad if all five colors got consistent rules with its draw? No, only one gets a "once a turn" clause just because it was a naughty child this year and gets coal for Christmas.
Life gain and small creatures were the "white things" it was doing, the once per turn thing was slapped on needlessly. White wasn't even getting draw all that commonly for a restriction to be necessary. Don't you find it weird they slapped on that clause while they print stuff like The Great Henge? Where's the "green can get effects that draw cards for doing green things if they only draw one card per turn?" What's so special about white that it needs to be handicapped? That's the issue. No other color gets that strange stipulation tacked on.
Every color is supposed to have different weaknesses. Red can't remove enchantments, black can't remove artifacts, blue is reactive (effectively, it can't remove artifacts or enchantments if it missed the opportunity to counter them), and green is overreliant on creatures (effectively, green can't draw cards or remove creatures without casting a separate creature spell or having creatures on the board. Half the reason green is so broken is that cards like Harmonize, Voracious Hydra, Apex Altisaur, and Ezuri's Predation exist.)
White is an odd duck. It can remove any threat, but, in order to not simply answer every threat every game, it is the worst at card draw. It used to be that white wasn't supposed to get draw engines at all, but because Commander rules favor green's strengths and minimize white's, they've decided that white can get very bad card draw without breaking things. If white got green-level card draw, it would become another super-color that can do anything and has no weaknesses.
Please, mill me. Mill my important cards. Mill my lands. Mill it all. Because I will still deal 20 damage before you can mill 45 cards most every time.
This is really nothing more than a push for Arena to compete against Digital Exclusive Card Games like Hearthstone and Shadowverse with card effects and gameplay mechanics that are almost impossible to be duplicated in Paper form. The more that Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro are able to entice players to help compete against the Digital Card Game Market the more it could potentially backfire on the Paper version that got MTG where it is today. If Arena stops relying on a Secondary Market to compete against these Digital Exclusive Card Games that aren't tied to a Secondary Market then it becomes less of a luxury where you're not having to spend as much as you would in Paper. It's good in the fact that it feels less obligatory compared to the daily grind of having to keep up with Paper MTG in regards to the latest product releases constantly in fear of missing out due to inside traders making specific cards more expensive on the Secondary Market. It's more of a luxury and incredibly taxing to those where they feel like they're dedicating most of their personal lives on a particular Paper Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game when life is short and tomorrow is no guarantee especially in the age of COVID where people are still dying everyday.
The events of 2020 as well as all the chaos and turmoil we see in our world today made me realize just how fragile it really is. It almost makes me wonder how long Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games will continue going in Paper form before the entire ecosystem and economy built around it eventually becomes completely unsustainable. Video Games have it easy because it was a system that wasn't primarily built on In-Person social interaction like Paper Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games are however I do feel with Video Games relying as much on the Internet as much as Paper Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games that we could be cruisin' for a bruisin'. I don't feel we pay enough attention to the world around us or how we're affecting the world today outside of gaming in general as we've become slaves to Social Media and Smartphones forgetting what life was like beforehand especially with how we seem to be indoctrinating future generations to be more reliant on technology rather than our humanity and empathy for one another as human beings. It's hard to keep away from technology nowadays due to how enticing and seductive it really is.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
This does not mean statements from MaRo about the colour pie are not important.
But they can be more easily dismissed when the one saying them has been highly contradictory. The same man that touted "our playtest team will allow a more balanced Standard" and then we get Eldraine, Ikoria, companions, Oko, Uro, and a year of sets with constant overpowered cards that warped near every format.
Sorry, but if a person I don't trust tells me that it's "raining outside" and even if I can hear the rain hit the house I'm still looking outside out of sheer distrust.
There is no MtG colour pie outside of WotC. If people from WotC's statements on the colour pie aren't meaningful, nothing is. They control the game; the colour pie exists in the game. They aren't just interpreting the colour pie, they decide it.
We can question their reasoning, their consistency, and how well the game plays with it, but we can't just say they are plainly wrong or ignore them. If you don't like baseball and think they should change the rules you wouldn't argue the MLB is wrong about the rules of baseball. The rules of baseball will always be whatever rules people follow when playing baseball.
White can get effects that draw cards for doing white things if they only draw one card per turn.
Life gain and small creatures were the "white things" it was doing, the once per turn thing was slapped on needlessly.
It was slapped on to limit white card draw, fitting with the *need* to preserve White's weaknesses.
White wasn't even getting draw all that commonly for a restriction to be necessary.
Why do you think white wasn't getting draw all that commonly?
Don't you find it weird they slapped on that clause while they print stuff like The Great Henge? Where's the "green can get effects that draw cards for doing green things if they only draw one card per turn?" What's so special about white that it needs to be handicapped? That's the issue. No other color gets that strange stipulation tacked on.
No other colour has the same weaknesses as white. Because, get this, the different colours are supposed to be different.
Green's draw, as well as green's creature removal effects, are tied to its creatures, because that's green's weakness. Green isn't supposed to be weak at card draw, it's supposed to be weak at building decks with lower creature counts. White is supposed to be weak at card draw. Green's weakness does affect its card draw abilities, but not as much as white's. Naturally then, white has harsher restrictions on its card draw effects to stop it drawing too many cards too efficiently.
White is supposed to be behind on card draw,
Neither was green or red, but we've seen how the first is insane at it now and the later has its own version of draw that's great in its own ways while white.....sometimes gets to do it once a turn, but only if Daddy says yes.
Green is second best at card draw tied with Black. It is not supposed to be weak a card draw. It is supposed to be not as good as blue, which is a line that has become rather blurred with some recent cards pushing things, but it was never supposed to be bad. Red is supposed to be significantly worse, but it's still only second worst, card draw is not supposed to be red's primary weakness, unlike white.
That's why they've been pushing a bunch of different unique card draw effects for white to try new things that could fit into white without just letting it draw cards whenever.
Letting it draw cards whenever? It's not like white was getting "at the beginning of your draw step draw an extra card" it was "if you gain life/small creature ETB pay mana to draw a card." Practically all of white's constant draw you had to pay to do it. Mentor was 1 mana, Bishop and Dawn of Hope was 2 mana,
Yes, because even before the recent decision on once per turn and such, WotC was trying to limit white card draw. It was decided, however, that those limitations were not good enough.
The problem with cards like Mentor of the Meek was that they are easy enough for white to just slot right in that they run a dangerous line between being good enough to actually see play and be fun, and making white too good at card draw.
Also, "unique effects"? Artifact/enchantment ETB once a turn is not unique. Wait, sorry it is unique because it they slapped on a unique restriction.
Yes.
The other draw it's been getting is only if your opponent does stuff to you/your permanents or does some stuff too often, both seen very little so far.
Also 'each player draws'. MaRo has also said more is to come.
White can care about small creatures. That's not the issue.
Clearly it is if something like Mentor of the Meek or Bygone Bishop is now "wrong". Mentor was just seen in Standard up until two years ago and somehow in that brief a time it went from acceptable to "color pie break", doesn't that sound a little absurd? It's not even that good of a card and now it's "wrong." It's baffling.
Weenie decks are a staple of white. Effects that allow you to draw cards but only if you play a bunch of weenies is not much of a restriction for white. Just as if green were supposed to be bad at card draw it wouldn't be much of a restriction for green to play a bunch of creatures for cards like the Great Henge. As you said, green is quite good at card draw despite such restrictions, and if anything, the restrictions on green card draw have been a tad weak of late. WotC does not want white to be anything like that. Because, yeah, duh.
There doesn't necessarily need to be assigned single colours for every possible effect.
Assigning colors to certain actions is literally what the color pie is about.
'Destroy target permanent' is restricted to green-black or black-white. No single colour gets that effect. There is no reason 'whenever you gain life, draw a card' or what have you needs to be in a single colour either. White can get such effects with the once per turn limitation. If you want it unrestrcited, add another colour. That's literally what the colour pie is about— limitations that you can mitigate by adding colours.
Blue being broken in the early magic and green being too pushed in recent sets are both *terrible* reasons why it's okay to put effects into white.
Draw effects in the things that white is good at? Yes. Why is that such an issue?
Taking other things being broken as a justification for how to balance something is a highway straight to making even more broken things.
'My window and my chair are already broken, so I might as well smash a big hole in my wall' is not logical.
Blue draws card because it can, green draws cards if you play Magic, black draws at the cost of life, and red gets impulse draw, but white.....can't have draw for doing some of the stuff its good at because that would be bad if all five colors got consistent rules with its draw? No, only one gets a "once a turn" clause just because it was a naughty child this year and gets coal for Christmas.
Only black is required to sacrifice things (not just life btw) to draw cards, only green is required to link all its card draw to creatures, only red is required to play the cards it draws straight away.
What's your point?
White doesn't have to sacrifice things, or link it to creatures, or play its cards straight away when it draws cards.
It has some of the harshest restrictions, yes, but it's supposed to.
Power balance is also not on the only consideration with the colour pie. There's always a question of feel. The colours don't exist purely for balance reasons, after all, they are supposed to have a certain style. You could just put a bunch of overcosted divinations and harmonizes into white and it still be the worst colour in card draw, but would that be fun? Would it feel like white can't draw cards in the same way as other colours, or would it just feel like white card draw is just *****ty? Would people want to play those cards in the first place, even if maybe it made sense to include some because they were better than nothing, would people enjoy it?
I'm not even really sure what you're saying here. People wouldn't play a white Harmonize (which by the way was a color shift and wasn't supposed to be normalized, but now green it's so common in green you expect it) because they may not enjoy it? I'm just gonna take a shot in the dark and say because they play it in green they might like it in a color that doesn't have decent draw where the best draw spell also gives your opponents cards.
I specifically said *overcosted*. And I meant, like, significantly.
The point was white is supposed to be worst at card draw and these restrictions WotC has been trying out are designed to give it playable fun card draw cards that also don't allow it to draw cards too easily.
Now look at the card draw effects WotC has been giving to white. The only once per turn version, for instance, requires you to put time and effort into triggering the ability each turn over several turns to really load up on cards, so the card draw has limitations, but those limitations also feel very white, planning and patience and such, the cards don't have to be bad, especially if the cards have other utility, and it's fun to play because you can work with its weakness.
That's why those effects are being tried out, and it's why I think those are good ideas.
And drawing cards from life gain and small creatures were the time/effort, the limitations were life gain isn't the greatest and small creatures are easy to get rid of, but I guess we need to nerf white because....something something "new color pie" something something dark side.
Because gaining life and playing small creatures are things white does really well and does all the time and so aren't very big restrictions. They would be appropriate restrictions if, like black and green, white was supposed to be good at card draw but just not the best, but white is supposed to be worst.
I mean its a great way to test ideas in a practical environment without truly corrupting the physical product. This prevents feel bad moments if something experimental needs a ban.
Its also ******* obnoxious if something great gets added and then never gets printed in paper.
This in turn further divides digital from paper instead of homegenizing it. That can be frustrating and confusing to both old and new players, or players changing mediums. Flawless transitions between digital and paper would be more sound for both mediums of gameplay.
I mean its a great way to test ideas in a practical environment without truly corrupting the physical product. This prevents feel bad moments if something experimental needs a ban.
Its also ******* obnoxious if something great gets added and then never gets printed in paper.
This in turn further divides digital from paper instead of homegenizing it. That can be frustrating and confusing to both old and new players, or players changing mediums. Flawless transitions between digital and paper would be more sound for both mediums of gameplay.
Ultimately it wont matter. We'll keep consuming.
Kinda like how Hullbreacher getting banned in EDH / Commander proves that the format needs to have a separate ban list for cEDH instead of trying to homogenize it into just one? As for reducing the risk of more Emergency bans in Standard via Arena and in Paper form that seems like a really good idea actually. For cards printed as digital exclusives on Arena that's really good but will never get printed in Paper is just another pseudo-Reserve List add on like how Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro are going about reprints with "The List". The original Reserve List was already bad enough yet somehow Wizards of the Coast figured out how to capitalize on the idea to generate more revenue for Hasbro.
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America Bless Christ Jesus
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Kinda like how Hullbreacher getting banned in EDH / Commander proves that the format needs to have a separate ban list for cEDH instead of trying to homogenize it into just one?[/quote]
Damn i wonder for how long people will cry for hullbreacher. How long it lasted for paradox engine?
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
In my opinion when MaRo says “ The digital only cards only work on digital. They aren’t cards we can make in paper”, it probably means that they literally can’t work in paper magic, pretty much like the astral cards (for reference https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/astral-cards-2009-02-12). For the record, I’m not a fan of digital and paper parting ways too.
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Apparently,Wotc had again the "great" idea to create for Arena-only players, cards that will never see the light of day on paper form.
Here a screenshot of the wizards article about this product (that is currently obscured in the mothership site):
https://i.imgur.com/jzqX10N.png
We know the names of two cards already, but we dont know yet what they do :
Ethereal Grasp
Tome of the Infinite
Mark Rosewater confirming this while also accurately avoiding to answer why they need to do this:
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/657602789371969536/why-are-you-continuing-to-make-digital-only-cards#notes
I have to say I'm not a fan at all of the whole concept of "online-only" cards that are legals only in those digitals formats. It is an extremely frustrating concept for paper only players that enjoy to play Magic within all cards and strategies availables.
It is not the first time they do this. They already did this with introduction cards for beginners
. The worst thing is, that even if the cards never meant to be constructed playable, in fact few of those were good enough that would be today even staples in EDH casual games (Yes, Inspiring Commander, great draw engine extremely need it for monowhite or boros decks, I look at you)
Now what if this time they make again, even unintentionally, new cards actually playable and extremely fun to play in multiple formats but that we will never have a chance to play them in any LGS tournament of any format or even in casual kitchen table games (I mean sure, printing them proxy is always an option, but is not normal that is the only default way to play them and not the extrema ratio way)?
That's why I'm definitely NOT A FAN of this. It's even worse than the whole "Universe Beyond" thing (and I'm in favor of that). I mean, at least I know that in a way or another I will be able to play the UB cards in some way, those will never be legal in Commander despite being in black border and perfectly functional within the rules and color pie, no matter what.
Which is exactly what they not did last time they did the "digital only" cards. What is the reason to not have Inspiring Commander as a great card legal in EDH or even standard? Nothing. This is the kind of stuff I'm pissed of.
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/657602789371969536/why-are-you-continuing-to-make-digital-only-cards#notes
Also, Inspiring Commander is a massive color pie break. I'm sure mono-red would love their own Krosan Grip and green would love their own Doom Blade, but breaking the color pie is bad for the format as a whole. White really needs help, but undermining its inherent weaknesses is not the way to do it. I understand that most people want white to be good, but I hope this puts things into perspective: green used to be the worst color in the game. It's gotten a lot of clear color pie breaks in the intervening years, and that's why it's so obnoxiously powerful now. It has no weaknesses to balance out its considerable strengths. And the damage is permanent. I don't want white to become that in the future.
Absolutely not. It fits in the "draw only within a subset theme that white cares about"*, and white cares about drawing off for little creatures (see Mentor of the Meek)
*White has a very narrow band of card drawing where it's focused on having to use a specific strategy (like say having a deck full of Equipment).
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/mechanical-color-pie-2017-2017-06-05
In fact white has already unlimited card draw for equipped creatures (Stone Haven Outfitter) or Aura, Equipments and Vechicles (Sram, Senior Edificer or because it gain life (Dawn in Hope) This is in total spirit of white card draw, there's no way you can tell me it's a massive break since it is exactly the type of narrow card draw white do since forever.
Seems I misread MaRo answer somehow. But anyway, doing a Shandalar videogame cards 2.0 doesn't seems that great idea and I believe that any single card design could and should work in paper too (for example, even if isn't tournament or edh legal, you could play Urza, Academy Headmaster in paper by simply printing in a piece of paper all his abilities and just throw a D20 for the random result of each slot). What I'm saying that those card should be printable and playable also in papaer, I'm opposing the whole concept of "online only" thing for very little gain for a bunch of gimmick and silly designs and nothing else.
Mentor of the Meek proves you wrong. You're gonna have to do an entire mental Olympics and a marathon to explain how "white caring about small creatures" and white gaining life from creatures entering the battlefield is a color pie break, 'cause I'd love to hear it.
Its actively harmful to have cards in digital only.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
And Maro stated that Magic would never have crossovers and yet here we are with three having happened already and another two that we know of on the way. Believe it or not, but Maro is not the final word when it comes to Magic and he makes plenty of mistakes within Magic. He says a lot of things that are contradictory.
White drawing cards from life gain or small creatures is no more a color pie break as red dealing direct damage or blue having efficient small creatures. Survival Cache is based on life gain, Oloro is primarily white caring about life gain, just a splash of black, and blue is just tacked on. Even Bygone Bishop would be considered small creature draw akin to Mentor of the Meek.
If drawing by life gain and small creatures is such a problem perhaps that might be why white is so behind when it comes to card draw and general power. If green can care about large creatures why can't white care about small creatures? If white isn't the color caring about life gain to draw cards then should be? Which color is it appropriate for? Back in the day blue could do everything in the name of the color pie, nowadays outside of countering spells green can do basically anything. Pretty sure we can give white life gain/small creature draw.
Wasn't there supposed to be a Pioneers Masters set? Could have sworn it was listed on the wiki.
It's postponed, so they can focus on developing Historic:
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-digital/mtg-arena-state-game-adventures-forgotten-realms-2021-07-02
Not that this necessarily means Pioneer is going away or never coming to Arena, but it might be a while.
This does not mean statements from MaRo about the colour pie are not important.
Yes it is.
White can get effects that draw cards for doing white things if they only draw one card per turn. That is the recently established rule that WotC (and not just Mark Rosewater) decided on.
It is always possible this could change, it is new after all, but it is definitely still wrong to suggest Mentor of the Meek-esque cards are in colour pie even if theoretically they could be brought back in for some reason.
White is supposed to be behind on card draw, so giving white more card draw can't just be slapping card draw in there. That's why they've been pushing a bunch of different unique card draw effects for white to try new things that could fit into white without just letting it draw cards whenever.
White can care about small creatures. That's not the issue.
There doesn't necessarily need to be assigned single colours for every possible effect. Some effects are multicolour only or shared by colours each doing it a little bit. Regardless, in this case, the answer is actually white—just as long as it's only once per turn.
Blue being broken in the early magic and green being too pushed in recent sets are both *terrible* reasons why it's okay to put effects into white.
Power balance is also not on the only consideration with the colour pie. There's always a question of feel. The colours don't exist purely for balance reasons, after all, they are supposed to have a certain style. You could just put a bunch of overcosted divinations and harmonizes into white and it still be the worst colour in card draw, but would that be fun? Would it feel like white can't draw cards in the same way as other colours, or would it just feel like white card draw is just *****ty? Would people want to play those cards in the first place, even if maybe it made sense to include some because they were better than nothing, would people enjoy it?
Now look at the card draw effects WotC has been giving to white. The only once per turn version, for instance, requires you to put time and effort into triggering the ability each turn over several turns to really load up on cards, so the card draw has limitations, but those limitations also feel very white, planning and patience and such, the cards don't have to be bad, especially if the cards have other utility, and it's fun to play because you can work with its weakness.
That's why those effects are being tried out, and it's why I think those are good ideas.
-
On the subject of digital-only cards, I'm inclined to say I dislike the idea. I can see how in this case they have reasoning as to why it might not be that big of a deal as these cards are probably designed for jumpstart and casual play, but the more WotC does it the more likely cards are to become sought-after for paper players, and even if they aren't competitive, people will want them anyway. I do also dislike the idea of digital becoming potentially increasingly different from paper play with different formats, cards, who knows what else. There's a limit there this might be straying into.
That said, hopefully, if they do indeed do this, these cards will receive paper printings sometime in the near future after digital release in much the same way the Universes Beyond cards have been marked to see paper printings. After how Secret Lairs and Universes Beyond went down, if that idea isn't something they at least already have in mind as a strong possibility, I would be surprised.
Assuming let's say then that they do that, that does mean I couldn't say I hate this idea like I might otherwise, but I'm still not sure if I like it.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
But they can be more easily dismissed when the one saying them has been highly contradictory. The same man that touted "our playtest team will allow a more balanced Standard" and then we get Eldraine, Ikoria, companions, Oko, Uro, and a year of sets with constant overpowered cards that warped near every format.
Sorry, but if a person I don't trust tells me that it's "raining outside" and even if I can hear the rain hit the house I'm still looking outside out of sheer distrust.
Life gain and small creatures were the "white things" it was doing, the once per turn thing was slapped on needlessly. White wasn't even getting draw all that commonly for a restriction to be necessary. Don't you find it weird they slapped on that clause while they print stuff like The Great Henge? Where's the "green can get effects that draw cards for doing green things if they only draw one card per turn?" What's so special about white that it needs to be handicapped? That's the issue. No other color gets that strange stipulation tacked on.
I'm sure it will change, it's changed before half a dozen times in the past and it will do it again, but that doesn't make this current iteration not head scratching-ly befuddling.
Neither was green or red, but we've seen how the first is insane at it now and the later has its own version of draw that's great in its own ways while white.....sometimes gets to do it once a turn, but only if Daddy says yes.
Yeah, that's green's job now.
Letting it draw cards whenever? It's not like white was getting "at the beginning of your draw step draw an extra card" it was "if you gain life/small creature ETB pay mana to draw a card." Practically all of white's constant draw you had to pay to do it. Mentor was 1 mana, Bishop and Dawn of Hope was 2 mana,
Also, "unique effects"? Artifact/enchantment ETB once a turn is not unique. Wait, sorry it is unique because it they slapped on a unique restriction. The other draw it's been getting is only if your opponent does stuff to you/your permanents or does some stuff too often, both seen very little so far.
Clearly it is if something like Mentor of the Meek or Bygone Bishop is now "wrong". Mentor was just seen in Standard up until two years ago and somehow in that brief a time it went from acceptable to "color pie break", doesn't that sound a little absurd? It's not even that good of a card and now it's "wrong." It's baffling.
Assigning colors to certain actions is literally what the color pie is about.
Draw effects in the things that white is good at? Yes. Why is that such an issue?
Blue draws card because it can, green draws cards if you play Magic, black draws at the cost of life, and red gets impulse draw, but white.....can't have draw for doing some of the stuff its good at because that would be bad if all five colors got consistent rules with its draw? No, only one gets a "once a turn" clause just because it was a naughty child this year and gets coal for Christmas.
I'm not even really sure what you're saying here. People wouldn't play a white Harmonize (which by the way was a color shift and wasn't supposed to be normalized, but now green it's so common in green you expect it) because they may not enjoy it? I'm just gonna take a shot in the dark and say because they play it in green they might like it in a color that doesn't have decent draw where the best draw spell also gives your opponents cards.
And drawing cards from life gain and small creatures were the time/effort, the limitations were life gain isn't the greatest and small creatures are easy to get rid of, but I guess we need to nerf white because....something something "new color pie" something something dark side.
Flavor justification for these restrictions that only white seems to get is still kind of up in the air.
Assuming if something's ever been in-color, that it still is somehow, is the exact reason we're in this current mess. The last statements from either Rosewater or Verhey is that Mentor of the Meek is currently "too efficient," Dawn of Hope is pushing the line, and Bygone Bishop requires enough hoops and provides the artifact synergies for it to still be fine. Splitting hairs? Sure, but splitting hairs is what also keeps Red burn spells with set damage values locked up to a certain point from Black's standard removal suite. Is it constantly-changing to the point of annoyance? Yes, but that's because Wizards is changing the color at its usual glacial pace. Consistency comes when something sticks, like impulsive draw in Red being treated as a waste of cardboard outside of RDW until Outpost Siege was printed two years in.
I defiantly remember the shift in green happening with Innistrad 1 and it getting fight effects to help it with removal.
To add on, design works around two years in the future so they often go slow since it often a few years for them to feedback from the general player base actually playing with them. They literally just started white getting draw around Eldraine and thus only really now with Innistrad 3 we start to see our feedback on that actually influence design.
Its not flavor its mechanical. White isn't support to be be drawing cards at all (minus cantrips). The reason is in theory as white is the color of effective small and cheap creatures is the only color to by itself get rid of any permanent type and having wraths, giving white draw then would get white get pretty dominate. As see what has happened with green with it being able to ramp, draw and have effective creatures they can use as creature removal. While white can't ramp it would have smaller creatures thus wouldn't need to ramp the way green would.
Maro said design wanted to start making more effective small white creatures (Sigrid, God-Favored is a cheap creature who can be a combat trick and removal, used as an example) and are nervous about also letting other cards let you draw off them so are shifting away from Mentor of the Meek effects. That said they said effective small white creatures also will mean cantrips effects (Priest of Ancient Lore).
Currently they are playing with white getting draw if 1) it lets an opponent also draw, 2) white can set up "rules" that if broke will let the white player draw cards (Esper Sentinel), 2.5) they said Shapers' Sanctuary effects are now white and something they said are leaning into as they already know from past cards how to balance it and 3) giving white cantrips effects to threaten cheap creatures.
Point 2 also opens up "Ward- This creatures control draws a card" to be a white effect.
Also there is this;
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/640517073491132416/my-wasnt-cosmos-elixir-actually-made-a-white
so seems like at least for Maro Survival Cache effects could be white and might work as it limits you to one card per turn and won't also gain you life and draw you cards which can be a bit win more with cards like Dawn of Hope.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
If you don't trust the head designer, who is the authority on what's in pie and what isn't? If I say something stupid like "blue should get Lightning Bolt," who are you going to cite to tell me I'm wrong?
Every color is supposed to have different weaknesses. Red can't remove enchantments, black can't remove artifacts, blue is reactive (effectively, it can't remove artifacts or enchantments if it missed the opportunity to counter them), and green is overreliant on creatures (effectively, green can't draw cards or remove creatures without casting a separate creature spell or having creatures on the board. Half the reason green is so broken is that cards like Harmonize, Voracious Hydra, Apex Altisaur, and Ezuri's Predation exist.)
White is an odd duck. It can remove any threat, but, in order to not simply answer every threat every game, it is the worst at card draw. It used to be that white wasn't supposed to get draw engines at all, but because Commander rules favor green's strengths and minimize white's, they've decided that white can get very bad card draw without breaking things. If white got green-level card draw, it would become another super-color that can do anything and has no weaknesses.
The events of 2020 as well as all the chaos and turmoil we see in our world today made me realize just how fragile it really is. It almost makes me wonder how long Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games will continue going in Paper form before the entire ecosystem and economy built around it eventually becomes completely unsustainable. Video Games have it easy because it was a system that wasn't primarily built on In-Person social interaction like Paper Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games are however I do feel with Video Games relying as much on the Internet as much as Paper Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games that we could be cruisin' for a bruisin'. I don't feel we pay enough attention to the world around us or how we're affecting the world today outside of gaming in general as we've become slaves to Social Media and Smartphones forgetting what life was like beforehand especially with how we seem to be indoctrinating future generations to be more reliant on technology rather than our humanity and empathy for one another as human beings. It's hard to keep away from technology nowadays due to how enticing and seductive it really is.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
There is no MtG colour pie outside of WotC. If people from WotC's statements on the colour pie aren't meaningful, nothing is. They control the game; the colour pie exists in the game. They aren't just interpreting the colour pie, they decide it.
We can question their reasoning, their consistency, and how well the game plays with it, but we can't just say they are plainly wrong or ignore them. If you don't like baseball and think they should change the rules you wouldn't argue the MLB is wrong about the rules of baseball. The rules of baseball will always be whatever rules people follow when playing baseball.
It was slapped on to limit white card draw, fitting with the *need* to preserve White's weaknesses.
Why do you think white wasn't getting draw all that commonly?
No other colour has the same weaknesses as white. Because, get this, the different colours are supposed to be different.
Green's draw, as well as green's creature removal effects, are tied to its creatures, because that's green's weakness. Green isn't supposed to be weak at card draw, it's supposed to be weak at building decks with lower creature counts. White is supposed to be weak at card draw. Green's weakness does affect its card draw abilities, but not as much as white's. Naturally then, white has harsher restrictions on its card draw effects to stop it drawing too many cards too efficiently.
Green is second best at card draw tied with Black. It is not supposed to be weak a card draw. It is supposed to be not as good as blue, which is a line that has become rather blurred with some recent cards pushing things, but it was never supposed to be bad. Red is supposed to be significantly worse, but it's still only second worst, card draw is not supposed to be red's primary weakness, unlike white.
Yes, because even before the recent decision on once per turn and such, WotC was trying to limit white card draw. It was decided, however, that those limitations were not good enough.
The problem with cards like Mentor of the Meek was that they are easy enough for white to just slot right in that they run a dangerous line between being good enough to actually see play and be fun, and making white too good at card draw.
Yes.
Also 'each player draws'. MaRo has also said more is to come.
Weenie decks are a staple of white. Effects that allow you to draw cards but only if you play a bunch of weenies is not much of a restriction for white. Just as if green were supposed to be bad at card draw it wouldn't be much of a restriction for green to play a bunch of creatures for cards like the Great Henge. As you said, green is quite good at card draw despite such restrictions, and if anything, the restrictions on green card draw have been a tad weak of late. WotC does not want white to be anything like that. Because, yeah, duh.
'Destroy target permanent' is restricted to green-black or black-white. No single colour gets that effect. There is no reason 'whenever you gain life, draw a card' or what have you needs to be in a single colour either. White can get such effects with the once per turn limitation. If you want it unrestrcited, add another colour. That's literally what the colour pie is about— limitations that you can mitigate by adding colours.
Taking other things being broken as a justification for how to balance something is a highway straight to making even more broken things.
'My window and my chair are already broken, so I might as well smash a big hole in my wall' is not logical.
Only black is required to sacrifice things (not just life btw) to draw cards, only green is required to link all its card draw to creatures, only red is required to play the cards it draws straight away.
What's your point?
White doesn't have to sacrifice things, or link it to creatures, or play its cards straight away when it draws cards.
It has some of the harshest restrictions, yes, but it's supposed to.
I specifically said *overcosted*. And I meant, like, significantly.
The point was white is supposed to be worst at card draw and these restrictions WotC has been trying out are designed to give it playable fun card draw cards that also don't allow it to draw cards too easily.
Because gaining life and playing small creatures are things white does really well and does all the time and so aren't very big restrictions. They would be appropriate restrictions if, like black and green, white was supposed to be good at card draw but just not the best, but white is supposed to be worst.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Its also ******* obnoxious if something great gets added and then never gets printed in paper.
This in turn further divides digital from paper instead of homegenizing it. That can be frustrating and confusing to both old and new players, or players changing mediums. Flawless transitions between digital and paper would be more sound for both mediums of gameplay.
Ultimately it wont matter. We'll keep consuming.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Damn i wonder for how long people will cry for hullbreacher. How long it lasted for paradox engine?