I would fully undestand all this upset behavior over UB if would actually substract something to the game. Like, for example, less or no more standard or core sets, stopping to develop a lore of the magic story, a real contamination between magic multiverse and other IP worlds.
But no. It will concern the game only in the terms of supplementals set, they will not even affect standard, and their lore is totally separate and still non-existent within in-game real lore. As a Vorthosian myself I'm perfectly cool with it.
This is simply an element that is not substractive, but addictive to the game, and therefore, making in more richer and makes happy anybody that loves their favorite IP portrait officially as magic cards.
Well we have the D&D set it is not supposed to be part of UB but it is a nondirect lore and is is there insetead of the core set. Furthermore fore some it is substractive it substracts their immersion. And while I agree it is silly to get up and leave midgame i can fully understand them not wanting to play against UB and asking the other person to play a different deck for the next time or using the deck with the UB cards less often. The same already happens both in format choice and level of competetiveness and this might just add the flavor level as well.
For people who dislike UB in general its similar to people that don't like lets say Planeswalkers you add something but that something detracts their enjoyment, there are people that quit bc of planeswalkers just as there will be people that do because of UB.
There will be plenty of people who will enjoy UB (and plenty of them) that's why I think this is at least a step in the right direction (with the mtg flavored reprints) But all that could have been avoided by making them either silver bordered or Godzilla treatment from the start. (I'd like silver bordered more since I don't want to see UB cards in a tournament setting but I am ok with Godzilla treatment since atleast I dont have to play with the UB versions.
Well we have the D&D set it is not supposed to be part of UB but it is a nondirect lore and is is there insetead of the core set.
Ironically enough, I never heard (neither on the internet of in real life) anybody complaining D&D crossover set, seems that for every magic player as long as it is a fantasy setting, anything goes I guess.
And while I agree it is silly to get up and leave midgame i can fully understand them not wanting to play against UB and asking the other person to play a different deck for the next time or using the deck with the UB cards less often.
All these issues seems more theoretical than practical. I saw very often players having alter-art of their cards of any kind of media they like and I never heard once in my life a complaining from some vorthosian inquisitor about not playing with them because the art and flavor or their magic card is not kosher enough.
For people who dislike UB in general its similar to people that don't like lets say Planeswalkers you add something but that something detracts their enjoyment, there are people that quit bc of planeswalkers just as there will be people that do because of UB.
Good riddance in that case. As another user very wisely said, maybe some players won't survive some Magic changes, but Magic will definitely survive some players abandon, for the game's greater good.
I am ok with Godzilla treatment since atleast I dont have to play with the UB versions
UB cards will have their non-UB counterpart anyway.
I would fully undestand all this upset behavior over UB if would actually substract something to the game. Like, for example, less or no more standard or core sets, stopping to develop a lore of the magic story, a real contamination between magic multiverse and other IP worlds.
But no. It will concern the game only in the terms of supplementals set, they will not even affect standard, and their lore is totally separate and still non-existent within in-game real lore. As a Vorthosian myself I'm perfectly cool with it.
This is simply an element that is not substractive, but addictive to the game, and therefore, making in more richer and makes happy anybody that loves their favorite IP portrait officially as magic cards.
I don't agree with this, at least for TWD and any UB product that doesn't have a Magic IP version. Take Rick, Steadfast Leader for example. I have a tribal humans EDH deck lead by Morophon, the Boundless and I love playing with it. When Rick was printed, I was heartbroken. I hate UB cards because for me they're absolutely incongruous with Magic flavor and it drives me crazy. And yet, Rick is the best Humans lord ever printed. So I have to choose between two horrible outcomes: miss out on the best Lord to support one of my favorite decks, or run a card that drives me crazy and makes me sad. So I don't think it's fair to say that it's only additive.
I do think that this solution of printing Magic versions is an ok one, assuming the supply is sufficient to meet demand.
or run a card that drives me crazy and makes me sad. So I don't think it's fair to say that it's only additive.
As the other user noticed, conservative players always get crazy on changes. Many did get crazy because they made the planeswalker card type, other get crazy when WotC supported femminism and LGBT, and that's why have this represented in Magic cards and lore too, and yes, many people get also very crazy when WotC made up the existence of Standard format. They even made a list of things that were close to kill Magic, because of upset enfranchised playerbase, and, in the end, turns out it was actually good for the game in the long-term run (otherwise Magic today wouldn't be that successful as it currently is): https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/twenty-things-were-going-kill-magic-2013-08-01
So yes, conservative get crazy over changes, in general, and they think something is disruprive to them even when is simply additive to the player experience and doesn't take nothing from them. That's how things works since the dawn of time. WotC, luckily, isn't held hostage from conservative players, or we would will miss many, many cool things they made in those years, not only UB.
And anyway, even you personal isssue have a solution. If you just don't like the flavor a card you like to play, just change yourself the flavor of that card by proxing with MSE or alter-art directly the card. The first option that is very cheap and easy, is what I do all time with my EDH decks (I currently got a Jace and Nicol Bolas deck with every single card flavored and referring to those 2), and as a Vorthos player myself, I feel pretty satisfied with this solution, and I think is a reasonable one for you too.
These are great points. Some people, whether talking about MtG, video games, or anything else, for that matter; get upset when something exists or incurs that they don't want. Whether or not it directly affects them, they are vocally outraged. When the Nintendo Switch came out I remember participating in a thread on Reddit where people were discussing their desire for Nintendo to finally get on board with achievements, and add them to the ecosystem—completely additive. There were suggestions to be able to hide/disable them if you don't want them, even. Some players were absolutely ENRAGED by the prospect—for reasons I am still unable to truly discern—and the thread devolved into some of the most egregious, volatile comments I've ever witnessed on Reddit. People that adamantly have a deep hatred of achievement, for whatever reason, were doxxing other people. There were death threats, constant ad hoc attacks, and the thread was ultimately locked and deleted after people wouldn't stop. Some users were banned. It was insane. For something that would have absolutely zero effect on them if they chose to ignore them. The same thing happens, here, too. A lot of people that want control over what their playgroups play, often have a playgroup with friends with similar desires. For instance, if you don't want EDH decks to have a power level higher than 5 or 6, you probably only play with people that also play that way. Even if someone in the same LGS is playing Negan, if you don't like it you don't have to play against that deck. If your playgroup is fine with them playing a Negan deck, but you aren't, perhaps the issue is yours and not the person having fun with Negan. As has been pointed out numerous times, with their solution of printing in-universe versions of UB cards, there shouldn't be a problem what-so-ever, for people that want to play with cards with a different coat of paint. If someone doesn't like UB cards on principle, I'd be disturbed if they have waifu, Sonic the Hedgehog, or DBZ alters. It's hypocritical. I have seen a person at an LGS complain about someone's Aliens vs. Predator alters, as being too sci-fi, while they themselves had naked elves painted all over their own cards.
If your playgroup is fine with them playing a Negan deck, but you aren't, perhaps the issue is yours and not the person having fun with Negan.
I think Negan (and his bat by extension) might be the special case out of all the walking dead cards, because it introduces the idea of rape into the MTG universe. For people for whom that's a personal issue, the discussion can't come up until the point where some small amount of harm might already have been done. On MTGO in particular you don't have control over that at all, and these cards are legal for tournament legacy and vintage play without in-universe versions.
Also, you know, Secret Lair is available if you live in the US, but you still have to account for MTG around the entire world when talking about legal tournament game pieces. It's not being produced in a manner where you shouldn't expect complaint.
These are great points. Some people, whether talking about MtG, video games, or anything else, for that matter; get upset when something exists or incurs that they don't want. Whether or not it directly affects them, they are vocally outraged. When the Nintendo Switch came out I remember participating in a thread on Reddit where people were discussing their desire for Nintendo to finally get on board with achievements, and add them to the ecosystem—completely additive. There were suggestions to be able to hide/disable them if you don't want them, even. Some players were absolutely ENRAGED by the prospect—for reasons I am still unable to truly discern—and the thread devolved into some of the most egregious, volatile comments I've ever witnessed on Reddit. People that adamantly have a deep hatred of achievement, for whatever reason, were doxxing other people. There were death threats, constant ad hoc attacks, and the thread was ultimately locked and deleted after people wouldn't stop. Some users were banned. It was insane. For something that would have absolutely zero effect on them if they chose to ignore them. The same thing happens, here, too. A lot of people that want control over what their playgroups play, often have a playgroup with friends with similar desires. For instance, if you don't want EDH decks to have a power level higher than 5 or 6, you probably only play with people that also play that way. Even if someone in the same LGS is playing Negan, if you don't like it you don't have to play against that deck. If your playgroup is fine with them playing a Negan deck, but you aren't, perhaps the issue is yours and not the person having fun with Negan. As has been pointed out numerous times, with their solution of printing in-universe versions of UB cards, there shouldn't be a problem what-so-ever, for people that want to play with cards with a different coat of paint. If someone doesn't like UB cards on principle, I'd be disturbed if they have waifu, Sonic the Hedgehog, or DBZ alters. It's hypocritical. I have seen a person at an LGS complain about someone's Aliens vs. Predator alters, as being too sci-fi, while they themselves had naked elves painted all over their own cards.
It is a sad fact of the human condition - if not the saddest - that so many people are inclined towards forming their personal identity around what others are not allowed to say, do, or think.
These are great points. Some people, whether talking about MtG, video games, or anything else, for that matter; get upset when something exists or incurs that they don't want. Whether or not it directly affects them, they are vocally outraged. When the Nintendo Switch came out I remember participating in a thread on Reddit where people were discussing their desire for Nintendo to finally get on board with achievements, and add them to the ecosystem—completely additive. There were suggestions to be able to hide/disable them if you don't want them, even. Some players were absolutely ENRAGED by the prospect—for reasons I am still unable to truly discern—and the thread devolved into some of the most egregious, volatile comments I've ever witnessed on Reddit. People that adamantly have a deep hatred of achievement, for whatever reason, were doxxing other people. There were death threats, constant ad hoc attacks, and the thread was ultimately locked and deleted after people wouldn't stop. Some users were banned. It was insane. For something that would have absolutely zero effect on them if they chose to ignore them. The same thing happens, here, too. A lot of people that want control over what their playgroups play, often have a playgroup with friends with similar desires. For instance, if you don't want EDH decks to have a power level higher than 5 or 6, you probably only play with people that also play that way. Even if someone in the same LGS is playing Negan, if you don't like it you don't have to play against that deck. If your playgroup is fine with them playing a Negan deck, but you aren't, perhaps the issue is yours and not the person having fun with Negan. As has been pointed out numerous times, with their solution of printing in-universe versions of UB cards, there shouldn't be a problem what-so-ever, for people that want to play with cards with a different coat of paint. If someone doesn't like UB cards on principle, I'd be disturbed if they have waifu, Sonic the Hedgehog, or DBZ alters. It's hypocritical. I have seen a person at an LGS complain about someone's Aliens vs. Predator alters, as being too sci-fi, while they themselves had naked elves painted all over their own cards.
Yes, some people take it too far and some people are hypocrites. Your point? You list extremes as if that's a valid counter argument to people disliking UB.
I don't have alters. I never sent anyone death threats. I don't do any of the things people in the "pro-UB" camp people accuse the other side of, except, you know, not liking UB.
You know what. On this very forum alone we have two people who like UB and
think they are somehow entitled to other people's freetime and entertainment
actually call people who don't like UB "mentally ill" (go check out the original thread if you don't believe me)
respectively. Since you assume everyone in one camp is exactly like their worst examples, then do I have to assume that you think these things as well?
You're basically using strawmen to make yourself feel better about your position when in truth your stance on UB has no more or less merit than that of people who don't like UB.
And when you have to hold up your argument using strawmen, then you don't have an argument at all.
Yes, some people take it too far and some people are hypocrites. Your point? You list extremes as if that's a valid counter argument to people disliking UB.
People debasing themselves out of rank entitlement seems more the norm these days than the exception. I can think of a fair few things that would be considered 'additive' in today's social / political environment that average citizens are becoming increasingly violent over. Suffice it to say, extreme behavior might be a lot more common than you think.
You can have your little strawmen armies fighting each other all you want, but ultimately you do not control or dictate what people like or do not like. That's it. It' a shame people have to get vile to the point of dehumanizing behaviour but at the end of the day I like what I like and don't like what I don't like.
'buster
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'buster
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You can have your little strawmen armies fighting each other all you want, but ultimately you do not control or dictate what people like or do not like. That's it. It' a shame people have to get vile to the point of dehumanizing behaviour but at the end of the day I like what I like and don't like what I don't like.
The Secret Lair website has updated to say "Coming Soon", with palm trees in the background. Summer Sale will probably be in the next week or so, maybe beginning of July at the latest.
These are great points. Some people, whether talking about MtG, video games, or anything else, for that matter; get upset when something exists or incurs that they don't want. Whether or not it directly affects them, they are vocally outraged. When the Nintendo Switch came out I remember participating in a thread on Reddit where people were discussing their desire for Nintendo to finally get on board with achievements, and add them to the ecosystem—completely additive. There were suggestions to be able to hide/disable them if you don't want them, even. Some players were absolutely ENRAGED by the prospect—for reasons I am still unable to truly discern—and the thread devolved into some of the most egregious, volatile comments I've ever witnessed on Reddit. People that adamantly have a deep hatred of achievement, for whatever reason, were doxxing other people. There were death threats, constant ad hoc attacks, and the thread was ultimately locked and deleted after people wouldn't stop. Some users were banned. It was insane. For something that would have absolutely zero effect on them if they chose to ignore them. The same thing happens, here, too. A lot of people that want control over what their playgroups play, often have a playgroup with friends with similar desires. For instance, if you don't want EDH decks to have a power level higher than 5 or 6, you probably only play with people that also play that way. Even if someone in the same LGS is playing Negan, if you don't like it you don't have to play against that deck. If your playgroup is fine with them playing a Negan deck, but you aren't, perhaps the issue is yours and not the person having fun with Negan. As has been pointed out numerous times, with their solution of printing in-universe versions of UB cards, there shouldn't be a problem what-so-ever, for people that want to play with cards with a different coat of paint. If someone doesn't like UB cards on principle, I'd be disturbed if they have waifu, Sonic the Hedgehog, or DBZ alters. It's hypocritical. I have seen a person at an LGS complain about someone's Aliens vs. Predator alters, as being too sci-fi, while they themselves had naked elves painted all over their own cards.
Yes, some people take it too far and some people are hypocrites. Your point? You list extremes as if that's a valid counter argument to people disliking UB.
I don't have alters. I never sent anyone death threats. I don't do any of the things people in the "pro-UB" camp people accuse the other side of, except, you know, not liking UB.
You know what. On this very forum alone we have two people who like UB and
think they are somehow entitled to other people's freetime and entertainment
actually call people who don't like UB "mentally ill" (go check out the original thread if you don't believe me)
respectively. Since you assume everyone in one camp is exactly like their worst examples, then do I have to assume that you think these things as well?
You're basically using strawmen to make yourself feel better about your position when in truth your stance on UB has no more or less merit than that of people who don't like UB.
And when you have to hold up your argument using strawmen, then you don't have an argument at all.
What's my position, here? You sound like you're getting defensive about something I didn't even say. I never claimed one camp is exactly like their worst examples, either. I just listed some examples that I have witnessed. You projecting your own ideas onto what I wrote isn't my problem.
You said: "I don't have alters. I never sent anyone death threats. I don't do any of the things people in the "pro-UB" camp people accuse the other side of, except, you know, not liking UB."
This seems to me that you then don't fit the definition of what I'm talking about, so I find it odd you seem to be offended.
Also, nothing I said fits the definition of a straw man:
straw man
/ˌstrô ˈman/
noun
1.
an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
"her familiar procedure of creating a straw man by exaggerating their approach"
2.
a person regarded as having no substance or integrity.
"a photogenic straw man gets inserted into office and advisers dictate policy"
What intentional misrepresentation did I make? I'm not even making an argument for or against UB in this entire post. I'm merely commenting on the fact that people take things way too far if they see something they don't like, adding examples of this, and trying to point out that some people who have complaints about cards like these also have alters that do not fit in the MTG universe.
I said:
Some people, whether talking about MtG, video games, or anything else, for that matter; get upset when something exists or incurs that they don't want. TRUE
A lot of people that want control over what their playgroups play, often have a playgroup with friends with similar desires. TRUE — I can walk into any LGS in the metropolitan area and find EDH groups that fall into this observation.
If your playgroup is fine with them playing a Negan deck, but you aren't, perhaps the issue is yours and not the person having fun with Negan. TRUE — if the group of 5 or 6 people are fine with someone playing Negan as their commander, and one person dissents, it seems the majority think its fine. It's the playgroups prerogative to decide what's fine. If a player doesn't like it, they can sit out games against that commander or play with someone else.
As has been pointed out numerous times, with their solution of printing in-universe versions of UB cards, there shouldn't be a problem what-so-ever, for people that want to play with cards with a different coat of paint. TRUE — they saw the feedback from TWD secret lair and they have fixed this issue. If you want to play a card but don't want to play with the UB versions, there will be others. So not an issue.
If someone doesn't like UB cards on principle, I'd be disturbed if they have waifu, Sonic the Hedgehog, or DBZ alters. It's hypocritical. I have seen a person at an LGS complain about someone's Aliens vs. Predator alters, as being too sci-fi, while they themselves had naked elves painted all over their own cards. TRUE — This collection of sentences contains all the context you need. Plucking parts of it out are misleading. What I'm saying is if someone dislikes UB cards out of principle but they have alters with other non-MTG things on them, it is hypocritical. I do not say you have to like UB cards. I am specifically saying if a player complains about UB but shows up to play a game with DBZ alters, then I find that disturbing and hypocritical.
You can have your little strawmen armies fighting each other all you want, but ultimately you do not control or dictate what people like or do not like. That's it. It' a shame people have to get vile to the point of dehumanizing behaviour but at the end of the day I like what I like and don't like what I don't like.
'buster
I'm not sure if this is directed towards what I posted or not, but didn't say what you should or shouldn't like. The closest I came to that is saying that I would be disturbed if someone complains about UB's while themselves playing with DBZ alters or similar ilk.
To be clear: I am not for or against UB, really. I couldn't really care less. While I do admit I would love to some Stranger Things cards, if they were cancelled, it wouldn't bother me, either. I am not arguing for or against any of these things, merely saying that I appreciate and see value in the points made by others. If you don't like UB, more power to you. If you like UB, good for you, too. I will say it is unfair, however, if you are a player that uses alters and bullies or excludes people that buy UB secret lairs.
Notes: SPELLING EDIT: Out corrected to Odd / Additional comments at bottom.
You can have your little strawmen armies fighting each other all you want, but ultimately you do not control or dictate what people like or do not like. That's it. It' a shame people have to get vile to the point of dehumanizing behaviour but at the end of the day I like what I like and don't like what I don't like.
'buster
I'm not sure if this is directed towards what I posted or not, but didn't say what you should or shouldn't like. The closest I came to that is saying that I would be disturbed if someone complains about UB's while themselves playing with DBZ alters or similar ilk.
It was not directed at you but the entirety of this thread. I've had friends cut pics of DBZ or even Sailor Moon and paste them on cards back in the early 2000s and honestly it wasn't a big deal then. Sure it was goofy at the beginning but you learned to adapt. Yes, sticking pics or making alters isn't the same as a card with the same name as the character alter but it's not a big deal overall.
People need to let this go. The game is evolving, and this is how it's being done. You can either choose to participate or withdraw.
'buster
P.S: If ppl are uppity about UB but are fine with D&D, then I sense some hypocrisy here.
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
I don't know if it's hypocrisy. D&D is a fantasy setting and arguably has some influence on Magic's tropes in general. Stranger Things is a modern-day setting so...ok? Yeah it has Demogorgon as a foe, but likely so laughably powered down so teenagers can face it. Stranger Things is fine as a Secret Lair but the cards should not really be playable except in casual play. Same goes for Walking Dead, but that ship has sailed, I guess.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
P.S: D&D is going to be a super popular set because of its tie in with D&D and that player base. It will probably be one of the best selling sets of all time. Watch.
That was never up for debate considering how much TWD made. When it comes to the D&D set I am more okay with it than TWD and Stranger Things, but I still don't like that the D&D set is happening at all. It isn't needed when they've been slipping in random reference cards for some time, like Bag of Holding, and when it comes to reprinting these cards it's far less likely to happen considering how specific a lot of these monsters/characters/worlds/stories are to D&D rather than fantasy as a whole.
Even at the best of times this UB stuff has glaring issues, unfortunately none of them will be the money they will bring in.
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Well we have the D&D set it is not supposed to be part of UB but it is a nondirect lore and is is there insetead of the core set. Furthermore fore some it is substractive it substracts their immersion. And while I agree it is silly to get up and leave midgame i can fully understand them not wanting to play against UB and asking the other person to play a different deck for the next time or using the deck with the UB cards less often. The same already happens both in format choice and level of competetiveness and this might just add the flavor level as well.
For people who dislike UB in general its similar to people that don't like lets say Planeswalkers you add something but that something detracts their enjoyment, there are people that quit bc of planeswalkers just as there will be people that do because of UB.
There will be plenty of people who will enjoy UB (and plenty of them) that's why I think this is at least a step in the right direction (with the mtg flavored reprints) But all that could have been avoided by making them either silver bordered or Godzilla treatment from the start. (I'd like silver bordered more since I don't want to see UB cards in a tournament setting but I am ok with Godzilla treatment since atleast I dont have to play with the UB versions.
Ironically enough, I never heard (neither on the internet of in real life) anybody complaining D&D crossover set, seems that for every magic player as long as it is a fantasy setting, anything goes I guess.
All these issues seems more theoretical than practical. I saw very often players having alter-art of their cards of any kind of media they like and I never heard once in my life a complaining from some vorthosian inquisitor about not playing with them because the art and flavor or their magic card is not kosher enough.
Good riddance in that case. As another user very wisely said, maybe some players won't survive some Magic changes, but Magic will definitely survive some players abandon, for the game's greater good.
UB cards will have their non-UB counterpart anyway.
I don't agree with this, at least for TWD and any UB product that doesn't have a Magic IP version. Take Rick, Steadfast Leader for example. I have a tribal humans EDH deck lead by Morophon, the Boundless and I love playing with it. When Rick was printed, I was heartbroken. I hate UB cards because for me they're absolutely incongruous with Magic flavor and it drives me crazy. And yet, Rick is the best Humans lord ever printed. So I have to choose between two horrible outcomes: miss out on the best Lord to support one of my favorite decks, or run a card that drives me crazy and makes me sad. So I don't think it's fair to say that it's only additive.
I do think that this solution of printing Magic versions is an ok one, assuming the supply is sufficient to meet demand.
As the other user noticed, conservative players always get crazy on changes. Many did get crazy because they made the planeswalker card type, other get crazy when WotC supported femminism and LGBT, and that's why have this represented in Magic cards and lore too, and yes, many people get also very crazy when WotC made up the existence of Standard format. They even made a list of things that were close to kill Magic, because of upset enfranchised playerbase, and, in the end, turns out it was actually good for the game in the long-term run (otherwise Magic today wouldn't be that successful as it currently is):
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/twenty-things-were-going-kill-magic-2013-08-01
So yes, conservative get crazy over changes, in general, and they think something is disruprive to them even when is simply additive to the player experience and doesn't take nothing from them. That's how things works since the dawn of time. WotC, luckily, isn't held hostage from conservative players, or we would will miss many, many cool things they made in those years, not only UB.
And anyway, even you personal isssue have a solution. If you just don't like the flavor a card you like to play, just change yourself the flavor of that card by proxing with MSE or alter-art directly the card. The first option that is very cheap and easy, is what I do all time with my EDH decks (I currently got a Jace and Nicol Bolas deck with every single card flavored and referring to those 2), and as a Vorthos player myself, I feel pretty satisfied with this solution, and I think is a reasonable one for you too.
I think Negan (and his bat by extension) might be the special case out of all the walking dead cards, because it introduces the idea of rape into the MTG universe. For people for whom that's a personal issue, the discussion can't come up until the point where some small amount of harm might already have been done. On MTGO in particular you don't have control over that at all, and these cards are legal for tournament legacy and vintage play without in-universe versions.
Also, you know, Secret Lair is available if you live in the US, but you still have to account for MTG around the entire world when talking about legal tournament game pieces. It's not being produced in a manner where you shouldn't expect complaint.
It is a sad fact of the human condition - if not the saddest - that so many people are inclined towards forming their personal identity around what others are not allowed to say, do, or think.
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Yes, some people take it too far and some people are hypocrites. Your point? You list extremes as if that's a valid counter argument to people disliking UB.
I don't have alters. I never sent anyone death threats. I don't do any of the things people in the "pro-UB" camp people accuse the other side of, except, you know, not liking UB.
You know what. On this very forum alone we have two people who like UB and
You're basically using strawmen to make yourself feel better about your position when in truth your stance on UB has no more or less merit than that of people who don't like UB.
And when you have to hold up your argument using strawmen, then you don't have an argument at all.
People debasing themselves out of rank entitlement seems more the norm these days than the exception. I can think of a fair few things that would be considered 'additive' in today's social / political environment that average citizens are becoming increasingly violent over. Suffice it to say, extreme behavior might be a lot more common than you think.
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#BLM
#DefundThePolice
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
You're wrong, let's fight.
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#BLM
#DefundThePolice
https://secretlair.wizards.com/us
What's my position, here? You sound like you're getting defensive about something I didn't even say. I never claimed one camp is exactly like their worst examples, either. I just listed some examples that I have witnessed. You projecting your own ideas onto what I wrote isn't my problem.
You said: "I don't have alters. I never sent anyone death threats. I don't do any of the things people in the "pro-UB" camp people accuse the other side of, except, you know, not liking UB."
This seems to me that you then don't fit the definition of what I'm talking about, so I find it odd you seem to be offended.
Also, nothing I said fits the definition of a straw man:
straw man
/ˌstrô ˈman/
noun
1.
an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
"her familiar procedure of creating a straw man by exaggerating their approach"
2.
a person regarded as having no substance or integrity.
"a photogenic straw man gets inserted into office and advisers dictate policy"
What intentional misrepresentation did I make? I'm not even making an argument for or against UB in this entire post. I'm merely commenting on the fact that people take things way too far if they see something they don't like, adding examples of this, and trying to point out that some people who have complaints about cards like these also have alters that do not fit in the MTG universe.
I said:
I'm not sure if this is directed towards what I posted or not, but didn't say what you should or shouldn't like. The closest I came to that is saying that I would be disturbed if someone complains about UB's while themselves playing with DBZ alters or similar ilk.
To be clear: I am not for or against UB, really. I couldn't really care less. While I do admit I would love to some Stranger Things cards, if they were cancelled, it wouldn't bother me, either. I am not arguing for or against any of these things, merely saying that I appreciate and see value in the points made by others. If you don't like UB, more power to you. If you like UB, good for you, too. I will say it is unfair, however, if you are a player that uses alters and bullies or excludes people that buy UB secret lairs.
No thanks. I'd rather have a V8.
It was not directed at you but the entirety of this thread. I've had friends cut pics of DBZ or even Sailor Moon and paste them on cards back in the early 2000s and honestly it wasn't a big deal then. Sure it was goofy at the beginning but you learned to adapt. Yes, sticking pics or making alters isn't the same as a card with the same name as the character alter but it's not a big deal overall.
People need to let this go. The game is evolving, and this is how it's being done. You can either choose to participate or withdraw.
'buster
P.S: If ppl are uppity about UB but are fine with D&D, then I sense some hypocrisy here.
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
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That was never up for debate considering how much TWD made. When it comes to the D&D set I am more okay with it than TWD and Stranger Things, but I still don't like that the D&D set is happening at all. It isn't needed when they've been slipping in random reference cards for some time, like Bag of Holding, and when it comes to reprinting these cards it's far less likely to happen considering how specific a lot of these monsters/characters/worlds/stories are to D&D rather than fantasy as a whole.
Even at the best of times this UB stuff has glaring issues, unfortunately none of them will be the money they will bring in.