Academy Manufacturer 3
Artifact Creature - Assembly-Worker (Rare)
If you would create a Food, Clue, or Treasure token, create one of each instead. The automatized systems of Tolarian Academy divides the new acquisitions according to their ideal use, determining which will be studied, eaten or sold.
1/3
Fazendo talks in length of the evolution of the use of tokens, both by Wizards' game designers, and by us.
To explain if dockside entered with this in play under your control and there’s a total of 7 artifacts/enchantments from them
To only you get 7 treasure it also makes 7 clues and 7 food tokens
Yea but clue and food are slow and clunky mana sinks, while treasures in high numbers just win the game.
If you had a Dockside extortionist that just makes food or clue tokens, it would be quite a bit worse.
----
Design wise how they use tokens gets more and more annoying.
If a card refers to "food" you just have to know what that means and what it does (and its quite terrible at that).
"Investigate" and clue tokens are even worse in that regard, its a super annoying way to have a simplistic slow-cantrip that uses more game-pieces and clutters the board with more tokens.
If you ever had a game with lots of food tokens, lots of treasure tokens and all kinds of tokens, its not a "card-game" anymore if there are a bazillion dice flying around and nobody really keeps track anymore.
(reason enough they print actual token cards, so they have some representation that is actually visible)
Card-text is basically just out-sourced into tokens.
The abuse of ability-keyword counters and similar stuff is just icing on top that makes all the counters and tokens increasingly confusing and annoying to play with (even worse in paper form when people use pieces of paper for tokens and dice, its a giant mess).
Love this and its subtlety really helps out a lot of kinds of decks by giving them ramp and draw.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
So do multiples of these in play exponentially grow token production in a similar manner to a Doubling Season style effect? In other words, if you have just one copy in play, and you go to create a food token, it will replace that event with creating a food, clue, and treasure instead. Now if you have two, my understanding is that you have to pick one of the replacement effects to apply to the event first as stated above, but now the second replacement effects is applying to an event that is creating one of each kind of token, and thus will replace the food with one of each, the clue with one of each, and the treasure with one of each, so you end up with 3 total of each kind.
So in general (assuming I'm mathing correctly), the resulting number of each kind you end up with is M*3^(N-1), where M is the number of tokens the original effect had you create, and N is the number of Academy Manufacturers you control...bonus points if you decide to throw in Doubling Season effects in there as well.
I guess that all depends upon whether their abilities see each other or not. I suspect they don't, else two Assembly Workers would give an infinite amount of each type of token.
I guess that all depends upon whether their abilities see each other or not. I suspect they don't, else two Assembly Workers would give an infinite amount of each type of token.
They do see each other, but since they are replacement effects they can only apply to an action once and you get to choose the order they happen. I'm not sure on how it works out with multiple copies, but my guess is the first one will turn a single token into all 3(1 food, 1 treasure, 1 clue) then the second will apply and make all 3 for the 3 that the first made(3 food, 3 treasure, 3 clues) and so on until you get to the last one and that is just for multiple of this card without effects from cards like Doubling Season and just from knowledge of how Doubling Season works.
Can I squeeze it into my Queen Marchesa EDH deck that has a treasure subtheme (Revel in Riches, Smothering Tithe, Extortionist)? It wouldn't get me to a 10-treasure win any faster really, but the extra artifacts/cards/life could come in handy.
I guess that all depends upon whether their abilities see each other or not. I suspect they don't, else two Assembly Workers would give an infinite amount of each type of token.
They do see each other, but since they are replacement effects they can only apply to an action once and you get to choose the order they happen. I'm not sure on how it works out with multiple copies, but my guess is the first one will turn a single token into all 3(1 food, 1 treasure, 1 clue) then the second will apply and make all 3 for the 3 that the first made(3 food, 3 treasure, 3 clues) and so on until you get to the last one and that is just for multiple of this card without effects from cards like Doubling Season and just from knowledge of how Doubling Season works.
That makes sense. Thankfully, those situations probably won't arise very often...we hope. Rally the Ancestors for x = 3, bringing back 3 AWs and 2 Thraben Inspectors = being kicked out of the event.
Academy Manufacturer 3
Artifact Creature - Assembly-Worker (Rare)
If you would create a Food, Clue, or Treasure token, create one of each instead.
The automatized systems of Tolarian Academy divides the new acquisitions according to their ideal use, determining which will be studied, eaten or sold.
1/3
Fazendo talks in length of the evolution of the use of tokens, both by Wizards' game designers, and by us.
To explain if dockside entered with this in play under your control and there’s a total of 7 artifacts/enchantments from them
To only you get 7 treasure it also makes 7 clues and 7 food tokens
Yea but clue and food are slow and clunky mana sinks, while treasures in high numbers just win the game.
If you had a Dockside extortionist that just makes food or clue tokens, it would be quite a bit worse.
----
Design wise how they use tokens gets more and more annoying.
If a card refers to "food" you just have to know what that means and what it does (and its quite terrible at that).
"Investigate" and clue tokens are even worse in that regard, its a super annoying way to have a simplistic slow-cantrip that uses more game-pieces and clutters the board with more tokens.
If you ever had a game with lots of food tokens, lots of treasure tokens and all kinds of tokens, its not a "card-game" anymore if there are a bazillion dice flying around and nobody really keeps track anymore.
(reason enough they print actual token cards, so they have some representation that is actually visible)
Card-text is basically just out-sourced into tokens.
The abuse of ability-keyword counters and similar stuff is just icing on top that makes all the counters and tokens increasingly confusing and annoying to play with (even worse in paper form when people use pieces of paper for tokens and dice, its a giant mess).
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
You mean
But don't you have to wait 3 turns for those new permanents?
Oh right, so you need to suspend on turn 2, so turn 5. Makes it a lot more fair in the modern landscape. My bad.
Edit: I guess one could go the cascade route then, not playing a mana dork, to make it turn 4 at best.
Details, Details.
Magic christmas land, we cascade into it of course.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
So in general (assuming I'm mathing correctly), the resulting number of each kind you end up with is M*3^(N-1), where M is the number of tokens the original effect had you create, and N is the number of Academy Manufacturers you control...bonus points if you decide to throw in Doubling Season effects in there as well.
Your banned Oko now makes Treasure and Clues, too!
They do see each other, but since they are replacement effects they can only apply to an action once and you get to choose the order they happen. I'm not sure on how it works out with multiple copies, but my guess is the first one will turn a single token into all 3(1 food, 1 treasure, 1 clue) then the second will apply and make all 3 for the 3 that the first made(3 food, 3 treasure, 3 clues) and so on until you get to the last one and that is just for multiple of this card without effects from cards like Doubling Season and just from knowledge of how Doubling Season works.
Can I squeeze it into my Queen Marchesa EDH deck that has a treasure subtheme (Revel in Riches, Smothering Tithe, Extortionist)? It wouldn't get me to a 10-treasure win any faster really, but the extra artifacts/cards/life could come in handy.
That makes sense. Thankfully, those situations probably won't arise very often...we hope. Rally the Ancestors for x = 3, bringing back 3 AWs and 2 Thraben Inspectors = being kicked out of the event.
That's a Food for you, a Treasure for YOU, and a Clue for YOU!!!
That's a big 1/3.