Hmmm....
I'm not really sure that this news has anything to do with me. I mean I'm not a Warhammer 40k fan, and I'm not enough of a LotR fan to buy into MtG LotR, so there is that. On the other hand who cares what other people play with, as long as it isn't in standard/historic/pioneer/modern. I guess my biggest concern is if they print something that F's up pauper, but after the last couple of years, that is always a concern. So: don't care one way or another.
....but, if they are taking requests for properties to have a crossover with: Big Trouble in Little China and/or The Princess Bride.
I will say this could have the potential to be interesting, but I am not sure if I like the idea of entire products dedicated to it, like Commander decks. I usually look forward to actual MTG planes getting themed cards in Commander decks, and past characters without them to finally see print. If this eats up space for MTG planes to get themed cards, that is rather lame.
But if we can have our cake and eat it too, as in this does not decrease MTG IP but supplements it, there are quite a few crossovers I would love. So far DND, Warhammer and even LOTR doe not interest me. No, as a pre-season 8 fan of GOT that crossover wouldn't either. Some of those that would I am not sure if MTG will consider. Like getting AVATAR/Pandora themed lands for example.
Okay, I won't lie, I will be loving this. Heck, I found out about the 40k one not on the MtG site but on Warhammer Community. I do wish they did AoS instead of 40k I won't lie. I am more excited for the LotR one, honestly I'm hyped for that.
My wife and I were joking about if they did a WoW one hahaha. Though if they did a Battletech one, I would freak cause I miss that game and it was pretty similar in mechanics (due to being another Deckmaster style game by WotC.)
Not gonna lie, I'm really hoping for an actual Gandalf Commander with the flavor text, "You Shall Not Pass!" with the illustration paying homage to Angus Mackenzie from Legends. Almost thought they were going to go with Game of Thrones but I'm glad they actually went with Lord of the Rings instead. Don't really care that much about Warhammer 40k though I can see how it could convert players over to MTG.
I know I probably shouldn't bring this up but is a Princess Bride (1987 film) Crossover out of the question? Westley/Dread Pirate Roberts/The Man In Black is an automatic shoe-in for a Gerrard Capashen clone. Of course Inigo Montoya would have the flavor text, "My name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die!" Buttercup would have her own card too of course as well as the phrase "Inconceivable!".
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
I play since 2004 and there were several ‚Magic is dead‘ moments:
- Future Sight: Futureshifted card frames
- Lorwyn: Planewalkers
- Alara: Mythic rarity
- M10: new terms (cast, battlefield, exile)
- Innistrad: double face cards
- Ixalan: Pirates vs. Dinosaurs
- The Guildwatch as Avengers wannabes
- Secret Lair Drops
- Ikoria: Kaiju artworks
My love for the game survived them all.
But this could maybe the Jump the Shark moment of MtG.
I play since 2004 and there were several ‚Magic is dead‘ moments:
- Future Sight: Futureshifted card frames
- Lorwyn: Planewalkers
- Alara: Mythic rarity
- M10: new terms (cast, battlefield, exile)
- Innistrad: double face cards
- Ixalan: Pirates vs. Dinosaurs
- The Guildwatch as Avengers wannabes
- Secret Lair Drops
- Ikoria: Kaiju artworks
My love for the game survived them all.
But this could maybe the Jump the Shark moment of MtG.
I used to be the same way with Upper Deck Entertainment's Marvel / DC Vs. System Trading Card Game since I was deeply concerned that adding different Intellectual Properties into the game could potentially ruin the main source material it had with Comic Book Superheroes and Supervillains. I think the problem with MTG is that Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro thinks they can make more money relying on other Intellectual Properties instead of focusing on MTG's own lore which they've actively neglected since War of the Spark. We have little to no explanation for what's been taking place on Kaldheim, Eldraine, Theros, and other recent planes we've visited barring Saga cards that leaves more questions than answers. It's a problem when Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro isn't as emotionally invested into MTG's own lore as they are designing the game itself.
The problem is that when it comes to MTG's own lore it just isn't as exciting as other Intellectual Properties that have their own communities and fanbases where it can be very hard to bridge that gap without ruining something that was once held sacred in a sense. I think Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro could learn a thing or two from Bushiroad who knows how to actually market their Intellectual Properties in a way that's exciting especially with how Square Enix promotes their products for the Final Fantasy Trading Card Game. As long as they don't get lost in the marketing and focus more on the basics of what made MTG the powerhouse Trading Card Game it is today then they should do fine IMO. Unfortunately with the way things are right now they're doing the exact opposite of what they SHOULD be doing. They're sort of going back to basics with Remastered versions of old sets.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
With "vehicles" involved, we got plenty of war machines in Kaladesh already, giant golems too for Titans.
Its not far off, Warhammer 40k is just a many times more cruel world than Magic is, a much darker fantasy sci-fi setting.
And still, there are quite a lot of Magic cards that come quite close to Warhammer 40k themes.
Thematic mechanics like Battlecry / Battalion / Vehicle and Equipment, the cards basically produce themselves and lots of fan-made sets already did it, they just charge money now for the cards.
Flavor wise they probably will fail pretty hard, like they did with Godzilla cards (them being super tiny in p/t for their colossal size).
Games still pg 13 and they have to constrain themselves quite a lot to display Warhammer 40k themes on cards, so chances are they will be extremely basic and cater to some fans to catch them in.
----
Could produce some very cool artwork cards, and a handful of good cards might get some artwork in, but not expecting many cards to have any impact anywhere outside of casual commander play.
The tables I play at and regular playgroup will ban all this universe beyond crap straight away just like TWD. That will suck for people coming to the store with these cards in their deck not being able to get in a game.
Flavor wise they probably will fail pretty hard, like they did with Godzilla cards (them being super tiny in p/t for their colossal size).
The first created the Ikoria cards and then decided to slap on the Godzilla "skins". With these projects they will create cards matching their identity, like they did with TWD
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Learning that the 40k stuff will take the Commander decks I am not thrilled by that. Those were a great way of introducing characters we have not seen in Magic to cards and now I get to sit here looking at a completely different series of characters that not only I don't know, but that I don't care about in the least. I mean I didn't care about Nahiri first appearing on a card, but at least that's a Magic character and not the trap/sex god of Warhammer.
The issue with these two is only compounded by the fact that these will be yet another product that they will push in addition to everything they already have. Suddenly we'll have a set of 5-7 SLs on Tuesday, a Harry Potter set on Wednesday, a Modern set on Thursday, and Standard set on Friday and then by the next Monday the next SL will be getting spoiled and they'll be talking about the next Standard set 3 months before it comes out.
The Magic news will never stop and the products will keep being spoiled like a shipment of milk in the sun. It won't be exciting and the game will burnout as it introduces Jojo's Bizarre Adventure Vintage worthy SL and One Night to Live non-Standard set as Arena Historic streams will be filled with Gonzo destroying everything on the field with an ETB as an indestructible Bugs Bunny is the only thing left that flips into a crossdressing rabbit if sent to the graveyard. Was what I said in this paragraph a clear slippery slope? Oh **** yes, but this slope sure seems to have a whole mess load of yellow caution signs that tell me of the chances of slipping that it didn't have a couple years ago.
Between the constant bannings, double and even triple the products of years prior, and now the products branching out like an unplanned DC Comics cinematic universe my faith in Magic is dropping oh so very quickly, and it was dropping rather steadily over the last couple of years due to the various things they've done. (I say this in lieu of other colorful terms.)
The first created the Ikoria cards and then decided to slap on the Godzilla "skins". With these projects they will create cards matching their identity, like they did with TWD
We'll see about that, considering it hasn't happened yet, there's a reason they didn't have the official MTG name beneath the WD names and it's because they had no idea what the cards would be in the future. It shows a complete lack of planning.
More so the issue then becomes as these "original" cards come to us we'll be sitting here waiting for them to rerelease, likely as some Secret Lair that they can go "Finally, you can collect the real cards, but at an extreme markup! Collect them all!" and all I can sit here is go "No, I don't want to pay $40 for $8 of cards."
Learning that the 40k stuff will take the Commander decks I am not thrilled by that. Those were a great way of introducing characters we have not seen in Magic to cards and now I get to sit here looking at a completely different series of characters that not only I don't know, but that I don't care about in the least. I mean I didn't care about Nahiri first appearing on a card, but at least that's a Magic character and not the trap/sex god of Warhammer.
Its not, the 2021 Commander decks are tied to Strixhaven. The Warhammer thing I believe is a separate thing.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
The tables I play at and regular playgroup will ban all this universe beyond crap straight away just like TWD. That will suck for people coming to the store with these cards in their deck not being able to get in a game.
Then it sounds like the problem there would stem from your playgroup, no?
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Its the "real" cards thing. If these were a special supplemental, if THOSE properties want a crossover with Magic, thats cool and they could be sold next to THOSE properties, when it's MTG adding those properties to their line of real playable cards, I just don't like it.
Seems a more money grab in all reality. They saw people making custom art, they decided hey we can SELL custom art. They saw people making custom sets, now they decided hey we SELL custom sets.
I just think its short sighted and will hurt long term.
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Resigned up after getting lost in the Twitch/MTGS whatever crossover
Been on this forum for 10++ years
Playing since '94
The tables I play at and regular playgroup will ban all this universe beyond crap straight away just like TWD. That will suck for people coming to the store with these cards in their deck not being able to get in a game.
Then it sounds like the problem there would stem from your playgroup, no?
Sounds to me like the problem is Wizards making a mockery of the game and creating the false impression that this garbage will actually be accepted by everyone, no?
You better believe there will be a LOT of playgroups who will want to have nothing to do with ‘universe beyond’.
Its the "real" cards thing. If these were a special supplemental, if THOSE properties want a crossover with Magic, thats cool and they could be sold next to THOSE properties, when it's MTG adding those properties to their line of real playable cards, I just don't like it.
Seems a more money grab in all reality. They saw people making custom art, they decided hey we can SELL custom art. They saw people making custom sets, now they decided hey we SELL custom sets.
I just think its short sighted and will hurt long term.
It would be fine if it was a stand-alone thing playable by itself. Mixing it with real MtG? Hell no.
It would be so wrong to not allow the “universe beyond” cards in game stores/play groups of commander just because some people can't accept fact that mtg is finally after 20 years joining the cross-over trend in a form of black border and countless companies have done cross-over
basicly It wouldn't be fair for the new players of this generation of magic that’s why I’m willing to adapt if this is what it’s becoming
so you want a solution just convince the rules committee to make two different commander formats one with the UB cards with mtg cards and one without UB cards
We may occasionally do associated Secret Lair products related to the main release, like the Secret Lair Godzilla lands when Ikoria: Lair of Behemoths came out.
I'm sure we'll get a Secret Lair LOTR lands with the Shire, Gondor, Isengard, Misty Mountains, Rivendell & of course, Mordor, being a reskinning of either Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth or preferably Cabal Coffers. It'll be interesting to think of what cards the other lands could be reskinned as.
It would be so wrong to not allow the “universe beyond” cards in game stores/play groups of commander just because some people can't accept fact that mtg is finally after 20 years joining the cross-over trend in a form of black border and countless companies have done cross-over
basicly It wouldn't be fair for the new players of this generation of magic that’s why I’m willing to adapt if this is what it’s becoming
so you want a solution just convince the rules committee to make two different commander formats one with the UB cards with mtg cards and one without UB cards
Like it or not, Commander is a casual format and every playgroup can ban whatever cards they want.
If particular combos are disliked by a group, they will ban the cards.
And thats fine.
Some playgroups allow Un-cards , some playgroups allow you to play any creature non-legendary as a commander, as long as they enjoy it, nobody cares.
Any group can decide their own rules.
If anything this shows that the game can either unite people under its fantasy setting, or drive them apart as they dont enjoy the same game anymore (for that reason you could expect that every card in a set that uses non-magic worlds has at least a in-magic counterpart version, just like the Godzilla cards did, so you are not "forced" into it, but have a choice at least, as having choices is a good thing).
It would be so wrong to not allow the “universe beyond” cards in game stores/play groups of commander just because some people can't accept fact that mtg is finally after 20 years joining the cross-over trend in a form of black border and countless companies have done cross-over
basicly It wouldn't be fair for the new players of this generation of magic that’s why I’m willing to adapt if this is what it’s becoming
so you want a solution just convince the rules committee to make two different commander formats one with the UB cards with mtg cards and one without UB cards
You're absolutely correct here.
WotC isn't doing anything wrong with products like this; it'll make many TONS of people happy, and bring a bunch more players into the fold. It will also make a for-profit company money, so they can keep making the game we love, just like every set ever printed. These are good things. If people want to be petulant, gatekeeping brats about a children's card game then they won't be missed from the tables adults are playing at and having a blast with the new cards
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I'm not really sure that this news has anything to do with me. I mean I'm not a Warhammer 40k fan, and I'm not enough of a LotR fan to buy into MtG LotR, so there is that. On the other hand who cares what other people play with, as long as it isn't in standard/historic/pioneer/modern. I guess my biggest concern is if they print something that F's up pauper, but after the last couple of years, that is always a concern. So: don't care one way or another.
....but, if they are taking requests for properties to have a crossover with: Big Trouble in Little China and/or The Princess Bride.
But if we can have our cake and eat it too, as in this does not decrease MTG IP but supplements it, there are quite a few crossovers I would love. So far DND, Warhammer and even LOTR doe not interest me. No, as a pre-season 8 fan of GOT that crossover wouldn't either. Some of those that would I am not sure if MTG will consider. Like getting AVATAR/Pandora themed lands for example.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
My wife and I were joking about if they did a WoW one hahaha. Though if they did a Battletech one, I would freak cause I miss that game and it was pretty similar in mechanics (due to being another Deckmaster style game by WotC.)
I know I probably shouldn't bring this up but is a Princess Bride (1987 film) Crossover out of the question? Westley/Dread Pirate Roberts/The Man In Black is an automatic shoe-in for a Gerrard Capashen clone. Of course Inigo Montoya would have the flavor text, "My name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die!" Buttercup would have her own card too of course as well as the phrase "Inconceivable!".
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
- Future Sight: Futureshifted card frames
- Lorwyn: Planewalkers
- Alara: Mythic rarity
- M10: new terms (cast, battlefield, exile)
- Innistrad: double face cards
- Ixalan: Pirates vs. Dinosaurs
- The Guildwatch as Avengers wannabes
- Secret Lair Drops
- Ikoria: Kaiju artworks
My love for the game survived them all.
But this could maybe the Jump the Shark moment of MtG.
The problem is that when it comes to MTG's own lore it just isn't as exciting as other Intellectual Properties that have their own communities and fanbases where it can be very hard to bridge that gap without ruining something that was once held sacred in a sense. I think Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro could learn a thing or two from Bushiroad who knows how to actually market their Intellectual Properties in a way that's exciting especially with how Square Enix promotes their products for the Final Fantasy Trading Card Game. As long as they don't get lost in the marketing and focus more on the basics of what made MTG the powerhouse Trading Card Game it is today then they should do fine IMO. Unfortunately with the way things are right now they're doing the exact opposite of what they SHOULD be doing. They're sort of going back to basics with Remastered versions of old sets.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Kardur, Doomscourge the guy is basically a Khorne Berserker.
With "vehicles" involved, we got plenty of war machines in Kaladesh already, giant golems too for Titans.
Its not far off, Warhammer 40k is just a many times more cruel world than Magic is, a much darker fantasy sci-fi setting.
And still, there are quite a lot of Magic cards that come quite close to Warhammer 40k themes.
Thematic mechanics like Battlecry / Battalion / Vehicle and Equipment, the cards basically produce themselves and lots of fan-made sets already did it, they just charge money now for the cards.
Flavor wise they probably will fail pretty hard, like they did with Godzilla cards (them being super tiny in p/t for their colossal size).
Games still pg 13 and they have to constrain themselves quite a lot to display Warhammer 40k themes on cards, so chances are they will be extremely basic and cater to some fans to catch them in.
----
Could produce some very cool artwork cards, and a handful of good cards might get some artwork in, but not expecting many cards to have any impact anywhere outside of casual commander play.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Fantastic idea, these product are going to sell like ******* hotcakes
The first created the Ikoria cards and then decided to slap on the Godzilla "skins". With these projects they will create cards matching their identity, like they did with TWD
And if you told me people would be complaining about it, my head would reform specifically so it could explode a second time.
It is not hyperbole when I say that I don't think I've ever been so excited for an expansion.
The issue with these two is only compounded by the fact that these will be yet another product that they will push in addition to everything they already have. Suddenly we'll have a set of 5-7 SLs on Tuesday, a Harry Potter set on Wednesday, a Modern set on Thursday, and Standard set on Friday and then by the next Monday the next SL will be getting spoiled and they'll be talking about the next Standard set 3 months before it comes out.
The Magic news will never stop and the products will keep being spoiled like a shipment of milk in the sun. It won't be exciting and the game will burnout as it introduces Jojo's Bizarre Adventure Vintage worthy SL and One Night to Live non-Standard set as Arena Historic streams will be filled with Gonzo destroying everything on the field with an ETB as an indestructible Bugs Bunny is the only thing left that flips into a crossdressing rabbit if sent to the graveyard. Was what I said in this paragraph a clear slippery slope? Oh **** yes, but this slope sure seems to have a whole mess load of yellow caution signs that tell me of the chances of slipping that it didn't have a couple years ago.
Between the constant bannings, double and even triple the products of years prior, and now the products branching out like an unplanned DC Comics cinematic universe my faith in Magic is dropping oh so very quickly, and it was dropping rather steadily over the last couple of years due to the various things they've done. (I say this in lieu of other colorful terms.)
We'll see about that, considering it hasn't happened yet, there's a reason they didn't have the official MTG name beneath the WD names and it's because they had no idea what the cards would be in the future. It shows a complete lack of planning.
More so the issue then becomes as these "original" cards come to us we'll be sitting here waiting for them to rerelease, likely as some Secret Lair that they can go "Finally, you can collect the real cards, but at an extreme markup! Collect them all!" and all I can sit here is go "No, I don't want to pay $40 for $8 of cards."
Its not, the 2021 Commander decks are tied to Strixhaven. The Warhammer thing I believe is a separate thing.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Then it sounds like the problem there would stem from your playgroup, no?
Seems a more money grab in all reality. They saw people making custom art, they decided hey we can SELL custom art. They saw people making custom sets, now they decided hey we SELL custom sets.
I just think its short sighted and will hurt long term.
Been on this forum for 10++ years
Playing since '94
I didn't say this year though.
Sounds to me like the problem is Wizards making a mockery of the game and creating the false impression that this garbage will actually be accepted by everyone, no?
You better believe there will be a LOT of playgroups who will want to have nothing to do with ‘universe beyond’.
It would be fine if it was a stand-alone thing playable by itself. Mixing it with real MtG? Hell no.
It would be so wrong to not allow the “universe beyond” cards in game stores/play groups of commander just because some people can't accept fact that mtg is finally after 20 years joining the cross-over trend in a form of black border and countless companies have done cross-over
basicly It wouldn't be fair for the new players of this generation of magic that’s why I’m willing to adapt if this is what it’s becoming
so you want a solution just convince the rules committee to make two different commander formats one with the UB cards with mtg cards and one without UB cards
I'm sure we'll get a Secret Lair LOTR lands with the Shire, Gondor, Isengard, Misty Mountains, Rivendell & of course, Mordor, being a reskinning of either Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth or preferably Cabal Coffers. It'll be interesting to think of what cards the other lands could be reskinned as.
Shards of awful never
Like it or not, Commander is a casual format and every playgroup can ban whatever cards they want.
If particular combos are disliked by a group, they will ban the cards.
And thats fine.
Some playgroups allow Un-cards , some playgroups allow you to play any creature non-legendary as a commander, as long as they enjoy it, nobody cares.
Any group can decide their own rules.
If anything this shows that the game can either unite people under its fantasy setting, or drive them apart as they dont enjoy the same game anymore (for that reason you could expect that every card in a set that uses non-magic worlds has at least a in-magic counterpart version, just like the Godzilla cards did, so you are not "forced" into it, but have a choice at least, as having choices is a good thing).
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
You're absolutely correct here.
WotC isn't doing anything wrong with products like this; it'll make many TONS of people happy, and bring a bunch more players into the fold. It will also make a for-profit company money, so they can keep making the game we love, just like every set ever printed. These are good things. If people want to be petulant, gatekeeping brats about a children's card game then they won't be missed from the tables adults are playing at and having a blast with the new cards