Commander is the best place for this to be legal, not in formats like legacy vintage, modern, pioneer and especially standard.
Commander is a format that is flexible it doesn't need to be so magic lore related or part of a plane and themes of deck.
It more on the the players feel. Commander is a format that doesn't need to compromise in a theme like no guns. it's casual, personalized and all about fun not formality, mtg lore, theme or etc category.
Seeing a commander deck with spiderman, ryu, batman or gouku as the general isn't really a problem
I think the only thing some people are disagreeing about now is how best to demarcate "play with UB" and "play without UB" in casual formats. If there isn't something overtly conspicuous to set them apart, "UB cards are not allowed in our playgroup" is a bit of clunky addition to your ad hoc ban list.
I think the only thing some people are disagreeing about now is how best to demarcate "play with UB" and "play without UB" in casual formats. If there isn't something overtly conspicuous to set them apart, "UB cards are not allowed in our playgroup" is a bit of clunky addition to your ad hoc ban list.
As it should be, really. The default should be 'everyone gets to play with their toys' not 'you specifically don't get to play with your toys,' and the onus should be on the folks trying to deny someone something to make the effort.
I think the only thing some people are disagreeing about now is how best to demarcate "play with UB" and "play without UB" in casual formats. If there isn't something overtly conspicuous to set them apart, "UB cards are not allowed in our playgroup" is a bit of clunky addition to your ad hoc ban list.
As it should be, really. The default should be 'everyone gets to play with their toys' not 'you specifically don't get to play with your toys,' and the onus should be on the folks trying to deny someone something to make the effort.
Every table can have specific rules. No mass land destruction, no turn 1/2 wins, yes/no to silver border, no Scrambleverse, etc. This is no different. Some people just don't like this and I can definitely see why.
As it should be, really. The default should be 'everyone gets to play with their toys' not 'you specifically don't get to play with your toys,' and the onus should be on the folks trying to deny someone something to make the effort.
Nah. That demarcation is going to exist regardless, and in the end neither side is going to be deprived their respective pleasures; having it be clear and official just means people get to feel better about it.
Just assume these are MTG cards with an Orica over them.
It just annoys me that Kamigawa or water world or other MTG-specific requests require all these hoops but UB isn't a problem. Money talks I suppose. But it doesn't bother me. I doubt they'll incorporate a franchise I like. We'll see. Should have known Secret Lair would get us here.
Just assume these are MTG cards with an Orica over them.
It just annoys me that Kamigawa or water world or other MTG-specific requests require all these hoops but UB isn't a problem. Money talks I suppose. But it doesn't bother me. I doubt they'll incorporate a franchise I like. We'll see. Should have known Secret Lair would get us here.
Speaking specifically to Kamigawa, I think that Maro mentioned somewhere that the plane polled INCREDIBLY poorly from a flavor standpoint (and not just because the cards were bad) so they're pretty loathe to revisit it. IIRC there was a rumor floating around about them revamping it to be a Japanese cyber-punk world or sommat but I don't remember if it was verified at all.
Just assume these are MTG cards with an Orica over them.
It just annoys me that Kamigawa or water world or other MTG-specific requests require all these hoops but UB isn't a problem. Money talks I suppose. But it doesn't bother me. I doubt they'll incorporate a franchise I like. We'll see. Should have known Secret Lair would get us here.
Not necessarily Secret Lair that caused it, but it seems they took the toe dipping of The Walking Dead and then decided to jump right in without testing the waters any further. Unfortunately, these will make money and eventually this will lead into a Standard set being made of some other IP. Only a matter of time.
If the 40Kommander and LotR have good reprints in them, for actual Magic, I have no problem buying them, but if they are solely new cards with those IP I have no issue skipping these like half the products they are pumping out at light speed.
Speaking specifically to Kamigawa, I think that Maro mentioned somewhere that the plane polled INCREDIBLY poorly from a flavor standpoint (and not just because the cards were bad) so they're pretty loathe to revisit it. IIRC there was a rumor floating around about them revamping it to be a Japanese cyber-punk world or sommat but I don't remember if it was verified at all.
I remember those, I was not a fan of that. Seems a bit too out there honestly.
Just assume these are MTG cards with an Orica over them.
It just annoys me that Kamigawa or water world or other MTG-specific requests require all these hoops but UB isn't a problem. Money talks I suppose. But it doesn't bother me. I doubt they'll incorporate a franchise I like. We'll see. Should have known Secret Lair would get us here.
Speaking specifically to Kamigawa, I think that Maro mentioned somewhere that the plane polled INCREDIBLY poorly from a flavor standpoint (and not just because the cards were bad) so they're pretty loathe to revisit it. IIRC there was a rumor floating around about them revamping it to be a Japanese cyber-punk world or sommat but I don't remember if it was verified at all.
Nah it's the card mechanics in the block, regardless what they say. because how many would actually build decks with those mechanics after that block went to extended if those mechanics in those cards are really good.
The mechanics in Kamigawa were terrible compare to what before it and after it. If those mechanics were decent you would seen a lot of those cards in play after the format were it belong rotated, but no. It's terrible.
I love samurai but the mechanic are the worst they are the bottom tier.. compare that to equipment, soldiers, clerics, rebel, kor, boros and etc.
Samurai were supposed to be cooler than clerics if were talking about themes but the mechanic were terrible
The probably worth salvaging in that tribal was pale curtain, which has the same case to jutun grunt from another terrible set also like coldsnap.
Snake tribal, Oni tribal? SoulShift? Bushido? Offering? Shrine? Epic? those mechanics were dead on arrival even if they were on cards with art and names like part of the medieval or steampunk settings/theme. Those card with those mechanics isn't fun to play with even outside it's block nobody take them seriously not because of being japanese themed but they are terrible in play.
Nobody liked to build deck seriously with those mechanics after it rotated from standard compare to other block which Kamigawa era like Mirrodin, Onslaught, Ravnica and Alara.
Ninjutsu probably was the only decent mechanic that people still enjoys to play from that block.
Arcane could have also great but it's also lock in that block.
Just assume these are MTG cards with an Orica over them.
It just annoys me that Kamigawa or water world or other MTG-specific requests require all these hoops but UB isn't a problem. Money talks I suppose. But it doesn't bother me. I doubt they'll incorporate a franchise I like. We'll see. Should have known Secret Lair would get us here.
Speaking specifically to Kamigawa, I think that Maro mentioned somewhere that the plane polled INCREDIBLY poorly from a flavor standpoint (and not just because the cards were bad) so they're pretty loathe to revisit it. IIRC there was a rumor floating around about them revamping it to be a Japanese cyber-punk world or sommat but I don't remember if it was verified at all.
Nah it's the card mechanics in the block, regardless what they say. because how many would actually build decks with those mechanics after that block went to extended if those mechanics in those cards are really good.
The mechanics in Kamigawa were terrible compare to what before it and after it. If those mechanics were decent you would seen a lot of those cards in play after the format were it belong rotated, but no. It's terrible.
I love samurai but the mechanic are the worst they are the bottom tier.. compare that to equipment, soldiers, clerics, rebel, kor, boros and etc.
Samurai were supposed to be cooler than clerics if were talking about themes but the mechanic were terrible
The probably worth salvaging in that tribal was pale curtain, which has the same case to jutun grunt from another terrible set also like coldsnap.
Snake tribal, Oni tribal? SoulShift? Bushido? Offering? Shrine? Epic? those mechanics were dead on arrival even if they were on cards with art and names like part of the medieval or steampunk settings/theme. Those card with those mechanics isn't fun to play with even outside it's block nobody take them seriously not because of being japanese themed but they are terrible in play.
Nobody liked to build deck seriously with those mechanics after it rotated from standard compare to other block which Kamigawa era like Mirrodin, Onslaught, Ravnica and Alara.
Ninjutsu probably was the only decent mechanic that people still enjoys to play from that block.
Arcane could have also great but it's also lock in that block.
Nononono, their polling indicated that BOTH the cards AND the setting were unpopular.
Nononono, their polling indicated that BOTH the cards AND the setting were unpopular.
I read an article which had rate those blocks
Yes it is confirmed as an unpopular but it is also confirmed that those the mechanics in Kamigawa is one of the worst on modern blocks regardless they say those mechanics are good.
Was Kamigawa even praised for it's mechanics nah. those were terrible. Snake tribal, Oni tribal? SoulShift? Bushido? Offering? Shrine? Epic? compare that to the likes of mirrodin, ravnica that are along those era.
NO one are taking those mechanics seriously or even build them for a decent extend format in those times compare to the other blocks in that era.
Polls as basis on judging the usability on mechanics is unreliable data because the ACTUAL statics of usage of those mechanics in various format it the ACTUAL analysis to USABILITY of mechanics of that block.
Polls are just for popularity and favorite not something to measure of it being PLAYABLE and USABLE
How do you measure if the card mechanics are good? LOOK in actual data in tournaments and casual format if people are building DECK from those mechanics from those block.
Nah it's the card mechanics in the block, regardless what they say.
It was definitely both mechanics and setting/flavour. Many English-speaking players found it difficult to keep track of which Japanese-sounding name belong to which card. There were other issues too, like Spirits that looked nothing like spirits, Serpopards/Catoblepases (ie deep flavour cuts) at common, and more. The mechanics were pretty bad overall, but so was the setting and flavour for the average non-weeb.
Just to chime in on the "what casual players play" discussion, many play 60-card play what you own (including or not including silver-bordered cards), many play Commander (same), and many (like mine) play both. We allow silver-bordered cards so long as they aren't too ridiculous (no throwing cards or shooting my deck with a nerf gun). I have a RUG Contraption commander deck and a WU Watermarks 60-card deck that I play.
I wish they had used another colour border for these, but for my playgroup it's likely no one is going to buy these anyway. We're all already overwhelmed with the increase in products lately, so ignoring these will help keep down the amount of cards we're all buying. If someone shows up with Gandalf as their commander, I don't think anyone will send them away from the table, but it's likely it won't even come up.
It was definitely both mechanics and setting/flavour. Many English-speaking players found it difficult to keep track of which Japanese-sounding name belong to which card. There were other issues too, like Spirits that looked nothing like spirits, Serpopards/Catoblepases (ie deep flavour cuts) at common, and more. The mechanics were pretty bad overall, but so was the setting and flavour for the average non-weeb.
Yes that was my point is BOTH, I'm not disagreeing that the flavor were not-unpopular . WHAT I'm disagreeing with is that people believing the kamigawa block mechanics are actually good and it's the flavour that made it bad.
Yes it is confirmed as an unpopular but it is also confirmed that those the mechanics in Kamigawa is one of the worst on modern blocks regardless they say those mechanics are good.
Mechanics is obviously the lowest of kamigawa and mechanics also it's lowest compare to all the other modern block.
Just to chime in on the "what casual players play" discussion, many play 60-card play what you own (including or not including silver-bordered cards), many play Commander (same), and many (like mine) play both. We allow silver-bordered cards...
When I said nobody cares about the mechanics of Kamigawa or no one is talking it seriously it was specifically the time in the era of closest to kamigawa before pioneer format and popularity of commander, that was before silver border cards were in consideration to be playable. Silver border cards has no relevant to make kamigawa block mechanics sound better, that's even the lowest comparison for most of the modern blocks.
It was definitely both mechanics and setting/flavour. Many English-speaking players found it difficult to keep track of which Japanese-sounding name belong to which card.
Those japanese sounding problem isn't really that complicated to get used too as time passed by especially if those card were seen much in play because of being usable and playable it turns familiar.
Even if those cards were turned western sounding the designed mechanics of kamigawa is the bottom of all modern release block in the whole MTG history.
The Professor puts some of the comments about this product in a much more eloquent way (in this video) and why many of us here, me included, do not look forward to these products or the direction the game is going.
One thing I wanted to speak more of on the licensing and the reprints. If there are no functional reprints of these cards we are looking at yet another Reserved List in the making. For me this will be the 3rd Reserved List. The original, which we all know and loathe, another that I call the Mystery Reserved List where certain cards they don't like reprinting (fetch lands for an example), and now this here which we might as well call the IP Reserved List.
The IP Reserved List is likely to hold many of the cards where they could create functional reprints of, but choose not to, thereby creating cards that they intentionally push for tournament play (Gandalf, Slaanesh, Iron Man's Hulk Buster armor, glow in the dark Furby) but make sure to keep it scarce.
The Professor really puts this in perspective. The reason they chose to not do Godzilla-esque skins or silver border is then us players could skip over these with no issue, but now that they have chosen to make them pure cards then many will be more or less forced to add them to decks if they want to continue making decks better or to get them to add to the newest meta deck or to current constructed decks.
In the end, they are not doing this to make the game better, but instead for money. While a business has every right to earn money we've all seen what happens to a game (video games especially) when you focus on the short term greed. This is why we have loot boxes, day one DLC, microtransactions, battle passes (a.k.a. preordering future content that you don't know what it is), live services, and "road maps" (how many games with a 10 year plan ever make it half way? *cough* Anthem *cough*) The video game industry has become overall pretty s*** in the last 15 years and I can only see Magic heading down this road.
I'm calling this now, eventually we will have a standard set that releases that is not part of Magic. D&D is that, yes, and while I'm more accepting of that in general than LotR and 40k I still don't like it, but what I mean is eventually we will end up seeing a Game of Thrones standard set or Dr. Doom break Nichol Bolas out of his prison. Something like that will happen eventually. Slippery slope? Sure is, but we've slid down a slide in the last couple of years, why would WotC stop now?
The Professor puts some of the comments about this product in a much more eloquent way (in this video) and why many of us here, me included, do not look forward to these products or the direction the game is going.
It's a great video, and made me think a lot about the capitalistic angle. My main reason for not feeling UB was the immersion element, it just not 'feeling' right, but the closer examination of UB as a business practice really made me look at it in that light. We have heard "MtG is dead/dying" arguments for decades, though I can appreciate what makes this particular scenario different and why there's a lot of pessimism around UB's impact on the game.
It was definitely both mechanics and setting/flavour. Many English-speaking players found it difficult to keep track of which Japanese-sounding name belong to which card. There were other issues too, like Spirits that looked nothing like spirits, Serpopards/Catoblepases (ie deep flavour cuts) at common, and more. The mechanics were pretty bad overall, but so was the setting and flavour for the average non-weeb.
Yes that was my point is BOTH, I'm not disagreeing that the flavor were not-unpopular . WHAT I'm disagreeing with is that people believing the kamigawa block mechanics are actually good and it's the flavour that made it bad.
Gotcha. It was a bit hard to understand what you were saying, so thank you for the clarification. Glad we're both on the same page.
The Professor puts some of the comments about this product in a much more eloquent way (in this video) and why many of us here, me included, do not look forward to these products or the direction the game is going.
It's a great video, and made me think a lot about the capitalistic angle. My main reason for not feeling UB was the immersion element, it just not 'feeling' right, but the closer examination of UB as a business practice really made me look at it in that light. We have heard "MtG is dead/dying" arguments for decades, though I can appreciate what makes this particular scenario different and why there's a lot of pessimism around UB's impact on the game.
I generally find that Brian, <mod snip>, is not a good endorsement to have for your side of a discussion :/
UB will bring more players into the game, and make WotC more money so that they can pay the people who make this game we all love. You don't have to like it, and you don't have to buy it, but a lot of people will and there's nothing wrong with that.
I generally find that Brian, as a self-aggrandizing petulant entitled prick, is not a good endorsement to have for your side of a discussion :/
UB will bring more players into the game, and make WotC more money so that they can pay the people who make this game we all love. You don't have to like it, and you don't have to buy it, but a lot of people will and there's nothing wrong with that.
A lot of people buy crack and heroin ... plenty wrong with that ...
Just because something sells does not translate to being good business practice.
I generally find that Brian, as a self-aggrandizing petulant entitled prick, is not a good endorsement to have for your side of a discussion :/
UB will bring more players into the game, and make WotC more money so that they can pay the people who make this game we all love. You don't have to like it, and you don't have to buy it, but a lot of people will and there's nothing wrong with that.
A lot of people buy crack and heroin ... plenty wrong with that ...
Just because something sells does not translate to being good business practice.
The Professor puts some of the comments about this product in a much more eloquent way (in this video) and why many of us here, me included, do not look forward to these products or the direction the game is going.
It's a great video, and made me think a lot about the capitalistic angle. My main reason for not feeling UB was the immersion element, it just not 'feeling' right, but the closer examination of UB as a business practice really made me look at it in that light. We have heard "MtG is dead/dying" arguments for decades, though I can appreciate what makes this particular scenario different and why there's a lot of pessimism around UB's impact on the game.
The real question is just how much of the immersion of Universes Beyond will take away from the enjoyment of MTG itself to where it's not really MTG anymore and I think Tolarian Community College brought that argument up quite well. MTG has gone from players immersing themselves as Wizards casting spells fighting against other Wizards to Planeswalkers doing pretty much the same thing to just about throwing that concept out the window without thinking of what the repercussions will entail. Maybe instead of incorporating different IP's (Intellectual Properties) into MTG they could've taken different art styles from those IP's by incorporating it into the MTG lore to where it doesn't alienate those who've already spent tons of money on this game. That's the direction that they should've stuck with instead of Universes Beyond IMO.
Take for example the Anime / Manga art style they chose for War of the Spark's Planeswalker cards, it was a way to pay homage to those IP's without actually diluting MTG as a brand. Imagine If they had styled cards based on 1960's Rankin/Bass for Christmas Secret Lairs or hired someone from a famous IP to do their take on the MTG lore like maybe Jim Lee from DC Comics. We also saw this in Ikoria: Lair of Behemoths where it was more inspired from art styles of American Comic Books and Graphic Novels. So already there's plenty of ways Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro can go about this without diluting the MTG lore though I get why they want to expand beyond it in order to get fan bases from other IP's into MTG. If anything the push for IP Crossovers in MTG will create a pseudo-Reserve List for non-Reserve List cards based on MTG lore.
That's going to be really bad for the affordability of the game going forward for players who are wanting to get a hold of EDH / Commander staples without having to proxy them simply because it creates an artificial demand for these cards that wouldn't exist If these IP Crossovers were more incorporated as nothing but art styles instead of throwing in said actual IP for the sake of corporate greed. Of course the Secondary Market hasn't done MTG any favors recently due to hyper inflation woes created by the pandemic with players spending their stimulus checks on cards that have gone up in demand while flipping them for short-term cash with the trend continuing the longer the pandemic persists. We'll only see a cool off of the MTG Market once things get back to a relative normal. As of now most players are mostly playing on Arena and MTGO with Spelltable matches here and there.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
The Professor puts some of the comments about this product in a much more eloquent way (in this video) and why many of us here, me included, do not look forward to these products or the direction the game is going.
It's a great video, and made me think a lot about the capitalistic angle. My main reason for not feeling UB was the immersion element, it just not 'feeling' right, but the closer examination of UB as a business practice really made me look at it in that light. We have heard "MtG is dead/dying" arguments for decades, though I can appreciate what makes this particular scenario different and why there's a lot of pessimism around UB's impact on the game.
The real question is just how much of the immersion of Universes Beyond will take away from the enjoyment of MTG itself to where it's not really MTG anymore and I think Tolarian Community College brought that argument up quite well. MTG has gone from players immersing themselves as Wizards casting spells fighting against other Wizards to Planeswalkers doing pretty much the same thing to just about throwing that concept out the window without thinking of what the repercussions will entail. Maybe instead of incorporating different IP's (Intellectual Properties) into MTG they could've taken different art styles from those IP's by incorporating it into the MTG lore to where it doesn't alienate those who've already spent tons of money on this game. That's the direction that they should've stuck with instead of Universes Beyond IMO.
Take for example the Anime / Manga art style they chose for War of the Spark's Planeswalker cards, it was a way to pay homage to those IP's without actually diluting MTG as a brand. Imagine If they had styled cards based on 1960's Rankin/Bass for Christmas Secret Lairs or hired someone from a famous IP to do their take on the MTG lore like maybe Jim Lee from DC Comics. We also saw this in Ikoria: Lair of Behemoths where it was more inspired from art styles of American Comic Books and Graphic Novels. So already there's plenty of ways Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro can go about this without diluting the MTG lore though I get why they want to expand beyond it in order to get fan bases from other IP's into MTG. If anything the push for IP Crossovers in MTG will create a pseudo-Reserve List for non-Reserve List cards based on MTG lore.
That's going to be really bad for the affordability of the game for players who are wanting to get a hold of EDH / Commander staples without having to proxy them simply because it creates an artificial demand for these cards that wouldn't exist If these IP Crossovers were more incorporated as nothing but art styles instead of throwing in said actual IP for the sake of corporate greed. Of course the Secondary Market hasn't done MTG any favors recently due to hyper inflation woes created by the pandemic with players spending their stimulus checks on cards that have gone up in demand while flipping them for short-term cash with the trend continuing the longer the pandemic persists. We'll only see a cool off of the MTG Market once things get back to a relative normal. As of now most players are mostly playing on Arena and MTGO with Spelltable matches here and there.
You know what's bad for the affordability of the game? Not reprinting Dual Lands or other Commander/Legacy staples because of "the Reserved List." But WotC has been doing that for years and could literally give a flying frick about reprinting those cards and breathing life into dying formats. I dont have several grand to spend on a single set of Duals for my 5 color Commander deck, but I guarantee you the guy that shows up with them to play is going to do alot better than I am.
Also, I see alot of people assuming that these UE sets will be Standard or Modern legal. Since when has a supplemental product (barring Modern Horizons) been Standard or Modern legal? So until they come out and say that the winter set is going to be a Disney/Pixar Collaboration and legal in Standard then I'm not going to fret about it.
Lastly, again, I stress that the majority of Magic players are kitchen table players. They arent browsing forums or getting into arguments over what one Youtuber's opinion on the health of the game is or whether or not crossover sets are going to kill the game. I reiterate Maro's saying about NOT EVERY MAGIC PRODUCT IS FOR EVERYONE! Like this Time Spiral Remastered set. There are a ton of people that are gonna be excited for sought after reprints, or nostalgia for the Time Spiral block. I could care less. Am I suddenly going to tell people they cant play with cards if they came from Time Spiral Remastered?
And before you idiots start a witch hunt about "well those cards arent mechanically unique or breaking the IP that is Magic" I will have tou know that I currently have several EDH decks that I have commissioned custom arts for the Commanders because I LIKE the idea of a crossover in Magic! I dont sweat over FNM or local tournaments. I play the game to mostly have fun and to EXPRESS MYSELF. If these IP crossovers make it easier for me or anyone else to do that while bringing more lifeblood into the game with more casual kitchen table players, I am okay with that.
Commander is a format that is flexible it doesn't need to be so magic lore related or part of a plane and themes of deck.
It more on the the players feel. Commander is a format that doesn't need to compromise in a theme like no guns. it's casual, personalized and all about fun not formality, mtg lore, theme or etc category.
Seeing a commander deck with spiderman, ryu, batman or gouku as the general isn't really a problem
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
As it should be, really. The default should be 'everyone gets to play with their toys' not 'you specifically don't get to play with your toys,' and the onus should be on the folks trying to deny someone something to make the effort.
Every table can have specific rules. No mass land destruction, no turn 1/2 wins, yes/no to silver border, no Scrambleverse, etc. This is no different. Some people just don't like this and I can definitely see why.
Nah. That demarcation is going to exist regardless, and in the end neither side is going to be deprived their respective pleasures; having it be clear and official just means people get to feel better about it.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
It just annoys me that Kamigawa or water world or other MTG-specific requests require all these hoops but UB isn't a problem. Money talks I suppose. But it doesn't bother me. I doubt they'll incorporate a franchise I like. We'll see. Should have known Secret Lair would get us here.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Speaking specifically to Kamigawa, I think that Maro mentioned somewhere that the plane polled INCREDIBLY poorly from a flavor standpoint (and not just because the cards were bad) so they're pretty loathe to revisit it. IIRC there was a rumor floating around about them revamping it to be a Japanese cyber-punk world or sommat but I don't remember if it was verified at all.
https://archidekt.com/user/71716
Not necessarily Secret Lair that caused it, but it seems they took the toe dipping of The Walking Dead and then decided to jump right in without testing the waters any further. Unfortunately, these will make money and eventually this will lead into a Standard set being made of some other IP. Only a matter of time.
If the 40Kommander and LotR have good reprints in them, for actual Magic, I have no problem buying them, but if they are solely new cards with those IP I have no issue skipping these like half the products they are pumping out at light speed.
I remember those, I was not a fan of that. Seems a bit too out there honestly.
Nah it's the card mechanics in the block, regardless what they say. because how many would actually build decks with those mechanics after that block went to extended if those mechanics in those cards are really good.
The mechanics in Kamigawa were terrible compare to what before it and after it. If those mechanics were decent you would seen a lot of those cards in play after the format were it belong rotated, but no. It's terrible.
I love samurai but the mechanic are the worst they are the bottom tier.. compare that to equipment, soldiers, clerics, rebel, kor, boros and etc.
Samurai were supposed to be cooler than clerics if were talking about themes but the mechanic were terrible
The probably worth salvaging in that tribal was pale curtain, which has the same case to jutun grunt from another terrible set also like coldsnap.
Snake tribal, Oni tribal? SoulShift? Bushido? Offering? Shrine? Epic? those mechanics were dead on arrival even if they were on cards with art and names like part of the medieval or steampunk settings/theme. Those card with those mechanics isn't fun to play with even outside it's block nobody take them seriously not because of being japanese themed but they are terrible in play.
Nobody liked to build deck seriously with those mechanics after it rotated from standard compare to other block which Kamigawa era like Mirrodin, Onslaught, Ravnica and Alara.
Ninjutsu probably was the only decent mechanic that people still enjoys to play from that block.
Arcane could have also great but it's also lock in that block.
Nononono, their polling indicated that BOTH the cards AND the setting were unpopular.
I read an article which had rate those blocks
Yes it is confirmed as an unpopular but it is also confirmed that those the mechanics in Kamigawa is one of the worst on modern blocks regardless they say those mechanics are good.
Was Kamigawa even praised for it's mechanics nah. those were terrible. Snake tribal, Oni tribal? SoulShift? Bushido? Offering? Shrine? Epic? compare that to the likes of mirrodin, ravnica that are along those era.
NO one are taking those mechanics seriously or even build them for a decent extend format in those times compare to the other blocks in that era.
Polls as basis on judging the usability on mechanics is unreliable data because the ACTUAL statics of usage of those mechanics in various format it the ACTUAL analysis to USABILITY of mechanics of that block.
Polls are just for popularity and favorite not something to measure of it being PLAYABLE and USABLE
How do you measure if the card mechanics are good? LOOK in actual data in tournaments and casual format if people are building DECK from those mechanics from those block.
It was definitely both mechanics and setting/flavour. Many English-speaking players found it difficult to keep track of which Japanese-sounding name belong to which card. There were other issues too, like Spirits that looked nothing like spirits, Serpopards/Catoblepases (ie deep flavour cuts) at common, and more. The mechanics were pretty bad overall, but so was the setting and flavour for the average non-weeb.
Just to chime in on the "what casual players play" discussion, many play 60-card play what you own (including or not including silver-bordered cards), many play Commander (same), and many (like mine) play both. We allow silver-bordered cards so long as they aren't too ridiculous (no throwing cards or shooting my deck with a nerf gun). I have a RUG Contraption commander deck and a WU Watermarks 60-card deck that I play.
I wish they had used another colour border for these, but for my playgroup it's likely no one is going to buy these anyway. We're all already overwhelmed with the increase in products lately, so ignoring these will help keep down the amount of cards we're all buying. If someone shows up with Gandalf as their commander, I don't think anyone will send them away from the table, but it's likely it won't even come up.
Yes that was my point is BOTH, I'm not disagreeing that the flavor were not-unpopular . WHAT I'm disagreeing with is that people believing the kamigawa block mechanics are actually good and it's the flavour that made it bad.
which I mentioned here
Mechanics is obviously the lowest of kamigawa and mechanics also it's lowest compare to all the other modern block.
When I said nobody cares about the mechanics of Kamigawa or no one is talking it seriously it was specifically the time in the era of closest to kamigawa before pioneer format and popularity of commander, that was before silver border cards were in consideration to be playable. Silver border cards has no relevant to make kamigawa block mechanics sound better, that's even the lowest comparison for most of the modern blocks.
Those japanese sounding problem isn't really that complicated to get used too as time passed by especially if those card were seen much in play because of being usable and playable it turns familiar.
Even if those cards were turned western sounding the designed mechanics of kamigawa is the bottom of all modern release block in the whole MTG history.
One thing I wanted to speak more of on the licensing and the reprints. If there are no functional reprints of these cards we are looking at yet another Reserved List in the making. For me this will be the 3rd Reserved List. The original, which we all know and loathe, another that I call the Mystery Reserved List where certain cards they don't like reprinting (fetch lands for an example), and now this here which we might as well call the IP Reserved List.
The IP Reserved List is likely to hold many of the cards where they could create functional reprints of, but choose not to, thereby creating cards that they intentionally push for tournament play (Gandalf, Slaanesh, Iron Man's Hulk Buster armor, glow in the dark Furby) but make sure to keep it scarce.
The Professor really puts this in perspective. The reason they chose to not do Godzilla-esque skins or silver border is then us players could skip over these with no issue, but now that they have chosen to make them pure cards then many will be more or less forced to add them to decks if they want to continue making decks better or to get them to add to the newest meta deck or to current constructed decks.
In the end, they are not doing this to make the game better, but instead for money. While a business has every right to earn money we've all seen what happens to a game (video games especially) when you focus on the short term greed. This is why we have loot boxes, day one DLC, microtransactions, battle passes (a.k.a. preordering future content that you don't know what it is), live services, and "road maps" (how many games with a 10 year plan ever make it half way? *cough* Anthem *cough*) The video game industry has become overall pretty s*** in the last 15 years and I can only see Magic heading down this road.
I'm calling this now, eventually we will have a standard set that releases that is not part of Magic. D&D is that, yes, and while I'm more accepting of that in general than LotR and 40k I still don't like it, but what I mean is eventually we will end up seeing a Game of Thrones standard set or Dr. Doom break Nichol Bolas out of his prison. Something like that will happen eventually. Slippery slope? Sure is, but we've slid down a slide in the last couple of years, why would WotC stop now?
It's a great video, and made me think a lot about the capitalistic angle. My main reason for not feeling UB was the immersion element, it just not 'feeling' right, but the closer examination of UB as a business practice really made me look at it in that light. We have heard "MtG is dead/dying" arguments for decades, though I can appreciate what makes this particular scenario different and why there's a lot of pessimism around UB's impact on the game.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Gotcha. It was a bit hard to understand what you were saying, so thank you for the clarification. Glad we're both on the same page.
This part had nothing to do with your post; it was a general reply to earlier discussion about silver-bordered cards in casual games.
sorry my bad
I generally find that Brian, <mod snip>, is not a good endorsement to have for your side of a discussion :/
UB will bring more players into the game, and make WotC more money so that they can pay the people who make this game we all love. You don't have to like it, and you don't have to buy it, but a lot of people will and there's nothing wrong with that.
A lot of people buy crack and heroin ... plenty wrong with that ...
Just because something sells does not translate to being good business practice.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Cardboard and drugs are the same now?
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#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Take for example the Anime / Manga art style they chose for War of the Spark's Planeswalker cards, it was a way to pay homage to those IP's without actually diluting MTG as a brand. Imagine If they had styled cards based on 1960's Rankin/Bass for Christmas Secret Lairs or hired someone from a famous IP to do their take on the MTG lore like maybe Jim Lee from DC Comics. We also saw this in Ikoria: Lair of Behemoths where it was more inspired from art styles of American Comic Books and Graphic Novels. So already there's plenty of ways Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro can go about this without diluting the MTG lore though I get why they want to expand beyond it in order to get fan bases from other IP's into MTG. If anything the push for IP Crossovers in MTG will create a pseudo-Reserve List for non-Reserve List cards based on MTG lore.
That's going to be really bad for the affordability of the game going forward for players who are wanting to get a hold of EDH / Commander staples without having to proxy them simply because it creates an artificial demand for these cards that wouldn't exist If these IP Crossovers were more incorporated as nothing but art styles instead of throwing in said actual IP for the sake of corporate greed. Of course the Secondary Market hasn't done MTG any favors recently due to hyper inflation woes created by the pandemic with players spending their stimulus checks on cards that have gone up in demand while flipping them for short-term cash with the trend continuing the longer the pandemic persists. We'll only see a cool off of the MTG Market once things get back to a relative normal. As of now most players are mostly playing on Arena and MTGO with Spelltable matches here and there.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
You know what's bad for the affordability of the game? Not reprinting Dual Lands or other Commander/Legacy staples because of "the Reserved List." But WotC has been doing that for years and could literally give a flying frick about reprinting those cards and breathing life into dying formats. I dont have several grand to spend on a single set of Duals for my 5 color Commander deck, but I guarantee you the guy that shows up with them to play is going to do alot better than I am.
Also, I see alot of people assuming that these UE sets will be Standard or Modern legal. Since when has a supplemental product (barring Modern Horizons) been Standard or Modern legal? So until they come out and say that the winter set is going to be a Disney/Pixar Collaboration and legal in Standard then I'm not going to fret about it.
Lastly, again, I stress that the majority of Magic players are kitchen table players. They arent browsing forums or getting into arguments over what one Youtuber's opinion on the health of the game is or whether or not crossover sets are going to kill the game. I reiterate Maro's saying about NOT EVERY MAGIC PRODUCT IS FOR EVERYONE! Like this Time Spiral Remastered set. There are a ton of people that are gonna be excited for sought after reprints, or nostalgia for the Time Spiral block. I could care less. Am I suddenly going to tell people they cant play with cards if they came from Time Spiral Remastered?
And before you idiots start a witch hunt about "well those cards arent mechanically unique or breaking the IP that is Magic" I will have tou know that I currently have several EDH decks that I have commissioned custom arts for the Commanders because I LIKE the idea of a crossover in Magic! I dont sweat over FNM or local tournaments. I play the game to mostly have fun and to EXPRESS MYSELF. If these IP crossovers make it easier for me or anyone else to do that while bringing more lifeblood into the game with more casual kitchen table players, I am okay with that.