I admit that I do harbor a secret fantasy that we will finally get the Wyvern/MTG crossover that was hinted at in FE. Printing error, my Yawgmoth. It was a prophecy!
I admit that I do harbor a secret fantasy that we will finally get the Wyvern/MTG crossover that was hinted at in FE. Printing error, my Yawgmoth. It was a prophecy!
These dark blue borders are a sweet idea. If they were to do something like that, suddenly all my critics would vanish (the holostamp is really not distinctive enough imo).
I'd be fine with them looking like magic cards, being mechanically unique, featuring other IPs, etc... as long as they're part of their own format, and the blue borders would be ideal to notify that.
And just like Silver borders which are sometimes accepted in EDH, you could see some of these cards being played in "normal" EDH if the table is ok.
That'd be a win-win, really. Heck, having Sauron fighting Ronald MacDonald alongside Rick and Spongebob Pants actually sounds like fun, what I DON'T want to see is a Collected Company dropping a Thalia and Bilbo Baggins into play in any of our traditional formats.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
French Commander : Yisan Liliana Kytheon Kari Zev Grenzo Karlov Tajic Gitrog Prossh Turboramp Najeela Modern : Solemnity Prison Martyr Proc Devotion to Green 8 Whacks Eldrazi Processor Bogles Landfall Aggro Legacy : Goblins
These dark blue borders are a sweet idea. If they were to do something like that, suddenly all my critics would vanish (the holostamp is really not distinctive enough imo).
I'd be fine with them looking like magic cards, being mechanically unique, featuring other IPs, etc... as long as they're part of their own format, and the blue borders would be ideal to notify that.
And just like Silver borders which are sometimes accepted in EDH, you could see some of these cards being played in "normal" EDH if the table is ok.
That'd be a win-win, really. Heck, having Sauron fighting Ronald MacDonald alongside Rick and Spongebob Pants actually sounds like fun, what I DON'T want to see is a Collected Company dropping a Thalia and Bilbo Baggins into play in any of our traditional formats.
The issue with that is the same as with making them silver-bordered: They wouldn't be legal in the format, so the vast majority of people wouldn't want to play with them. Its no solution at all, really.
These dark blue borders are a sweet idea. If they were to do something like that, suddenly all my critics would vanish (the holostamp is really not distinctive enough imo).
I'd be fine with them looking like magic cards, being mechanically unique, featuring other IPs, etc... as long as they're part of their own format, and the blue borders would be ideal to notify that.
And just like Silver borders which are sometimes accepted in EDH, you could see some of these cards being played in "normal" EDH if the table is ok.
That'd be a win-win, really. Heck, having Sauron fighting Ronald MacDonald alongside Rick and Spongebob Pants actually sounds like fun, what I DON'T want to see is a Collected Company dropping a Thalia and Bilbo Baggins into play in any of our traditional formats.
I know but here’s the thing though.
now some you refuse to believe this but Mark said countless time silver border point to print stuff mechanic wise impossible to print
The issue with that is the same as with making them silver-bordered: They wouldn't be legal in the format, so the vast majority of people wouldn't want to play with them. Its no solution at all, really.
So? playgroups exist (and not in that small of a number that already allow silver bordered cards. Sure the issue is playing with randos but usually people allow it if asked and if it's casual anyway it is good form IMO to ask what the powerlevel is anyway so one more question isn't going to hurt.
And If you think most people wouldn't say yes, then the issue moot anyway since with or without silver bordered not many people are into the crossovers so the vast majority wouldn't want to play them anyway. Sure that is casual play, tournament play is a bit different since when they are silver bordered they are illegal for those, but I think UB is more geared twoards casuals anyway (like the Un- Sets). While most Hardcore Spikes wouldn't care what the name or the artwork on their cards is, and that there might be tournament Grinders who love crossovers I think the vast majority of players even If they love crossovers want those cards to stay in the casual realm. And with Coverage being a thing wizards might want to keep them there.
Quote from Ryperior74 »
I know but here’s the thing though.
now some you refuse to believe this but Mark said countless time silver border point to print stuff mechanic wise impossible to print
No I believe this as there was/is a Blogatog entry for this as well, thing is he also said it is a Testing ground to try things out and the vast majority of Silver bordered cards are pretty possible to print mechanicswise if not already printed mechanics wise
EDIT:
And the main reason not to print them as is in a normal set is mostly flavorwise.
Many of the silver bordered cards could be Black Bordered but they might require adjusting the rules and they do not feel like the rules revision is justified for the addition of a cool new mechanic (like Extremely Slow Zombie).
and can you give another example that isn't the cheese stands alone/Barren glory? and Super-Duper Death Ray/Flame spill? (Trample on instant/Sorcery impossible in black.) and pretty much nothing else from Unstaple and forward?
in other words, I'm aware of this, Maro mention this Unstaple and Forward is somewhat more on test pilot territory
Edit: target Minotaur example it’s not black because you picked a card with 4 different arts
Last edited by Ryperior74: 18 minutes ago
And most if not all of these are Silver bordered because of their flavor not their mechanics which is a fine route to take as UN- Sets have been popular despite not being tournament legal, sure there are people avoiding buying these for that reason but that didn't stop them from getting popular, and I'd argue It actually helped Both UN-Sets and magics Popularity that way
If this thing was silver-border (or any color, even gold border), players would treat these even worse than they would now. Outside of Un-set draft, silver border is treated like complete garbage, even more than their own packaging.
Even during the time when silver border was allowed in big casual format Commander, I've seen multiple cases of people ripping up their opponent's cards mid-game because it's "worthless silver border." Heck, the only one played in any significant numbers is Urza, Academy Headmaster to take Sisay, Weatherlight Captain's place for a few weeks in 5-color Superfriends.
Playgroups who accept non-black border cards (again, including gold border) and next to NONEXISTENT. The legitimacy of black border will keep these cards treated as cards, and not hamster cage liner.
If this thing was silver-border (or any color, even gold border), players would treat these even worse than they would now. Outside of Un-set draft, silver border is treated like complete garbage, even more than their own packaging.
Even during the time when silver border was allowed in big casual format Commander, I've seen multiple cases of people ripping up their opponent's cards mid-game because it's "worthless silver border." Heck, the only one played in any significant numbers is Urza, Academy Headmaster to take Sisay, Weatherlight Captain's place for a few weeks in 5-color Superfriends.
Playgroups who accept non-black border cards (again, including gold border) and next to NONEXISTENT. The legitimacy of black border will keep these cards treated as cards, and not hamster cage liner.
It seems like your expierience differs greatly from mine I never had a Problem playing with silver bordered cards both in store with randos (After asking them if they are okay with it) and with my Playgroups. (Similar to gold bordered cards although Ive never actually seen someone playing these directly but I've seen and played with people that use proxies which is basically equivalent to gold border anyways)
If you think the treatment for UB cards is bad now what makes you think those people would accept them more if they are black bordered, in this thread alone a lot of people who don't like the crossovers have said that they'd be fine if they were silver bordered but they don't like them being black bordered even some of the ones who like the crossovers said they would prefer them that way.
For those that are vehemently against the crossovers even when they are silver bordered they won't treat them differently than silver bordered anyways (with the extreme being not playing against them in whatever shape or form they come) so there it makes no difference in them being silver bordered anyways.
With the people who dislike the crossovers but would be fine with silver bordered they would be treating them better than they are now since they themself said that that would be okay with them.
Same goes for the people who like UB but woul'd have liked them to go that route instead. Both those groups would treat them better if they were silver bordered.
The only group that would treat them worse is people who love the crossovers but hate Un-sets/Silver-Bordered stuff which (At least in my expierience) is a very small minority.
If this thing was silver-border (or any color, even gold border), players would treat these even worse than they would now. Outside of Un-set draft, silver border is treated like complete garbage, even more than their own packaging.
Even during the time when silver border was allowed in big casual format Commander, I've seen multiple cases of people ripping up their opponent's cards mid-game because it's "worthless silver border." Heck, the only one played in any significant numbers is Urza, Academy Headmaster to take Sisay, Weatherlight Captain's place for a few weeks in 5-color Superfriends.
Playgroups who accept non-black border cards (again, including gold border) and next to NONEXISTENT. The legitimacy of black border will keep these cards treated as cards, and not hamster cage liner.
It seems like your expierience differs greatly from mine I never had a Problem playing with silver bordered cards both in store with randos (After asking them if they are okay with it) and with my Playgroups. (Similar to gold bordered cards although Ive never actually seen someone playing these directly but I've seen and played with people that use proxies which is basically equivalent to gold border anyways)
If you think the treatment for UB cards is bad now what makes you think those people would accept them more if they are black bordered, in this thread alone a lot of people who don't like the crossovers have said that they'd be fine if they were silver bordered but they don't like them being black bordered even some of the ones who like the crossovers said they would prefer them that way.
For those that are vehemently against the crossovers even when they are silver bordered they won't treat them differently than silver bordered anyways (with the extreme being not playing against them in whatever shape or form they come) so there it makes no difference in them being silver bordered anyways.
With the people who dislike the crossovers but would be fine with silver bordered they would be treating them better than they are now since they themself said that that would be okay with them.
Same goes for the people who like UB but woul'd have liked them to go that route instead. Both those groups would treat them better if they were silver bordered.
The only group that would treat them worse is people who love the crossovers but hate Un-sets/Silver-Bordered stuff which (At least in my expierience) is a very small minority.
Simple: no one actually plays silver border. In my experience, outside of Unstable draft (which is really fun), no one actually does anything with silver border. It's all conjecture and theorycrafting, with no actual application. If you're not drafting silver border, the only reason to buy any silver-border product are the full-art basics. The only time Unsanctioned will stop warming LGS shelves, for example, will be when the full-art basics start being more expensive than whatever discounted price the box set goes for. After that, it'll be like all silver border: immediately thrown away, or stored in a basement to be thrown away later. UB being black-border means people will play it, even begrudgingly. I doubt anyone here who said they'd be happy with UB in silver border would actually play them. Hell, a large majority of those who like UB wouldn't play it either, because it's not a real Magic card.
So how about making them white-bordered? I'm curious because that qualifies as a real Magic-card somehow where silver-bordered doesn't, right?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Conuly »
Heck, every day I wake up, I don't go out and kill people - and I'm rewarded by not having legions of enemies! Amazing how that works.
Although ninjas are experts of camouflage and concealment, they are actually horrible liars. This means that no matter where you are, you can shout out, “Are there any ninjas here?” and if there’s a ninja within earshot, he’ll be compelled to respond.
Like I said before then our expierience differs greatly I own a 60 Card casual Un Deck I play regularly with my roomate (which i bought a box of unstable with) and in One of my playgroups. That one I rarely play in stores or my other playgroup since when I go casual there I mainly Play Commander but one of my commanders has silver bordered cards in there, and like I said before after asking I've never been told that I can't play them heck I've been told not to play my Zur cycling deck but never not to play my Jor Kadeem Deck that plays Uncards. Sure I agree that I've not seen many People play silver border (not Zero mind you) but I also never seen People say I can't in casual, and while I think more people would be against the UB there might be more People that wouldn't like playing against them it would be better for the whole group If they communicate it beforehand and that is easier if it is an opt in rather than an opt out.
UB being black-border means people will play it, even begrudgingly. I doubt anyone here who said they'd be happy with UB in silver border would actually play them. Hell, a large majority of those who like UB wouldn't play it either, because it's not a real Magic card.
So you think the people who are vehemently against playing with or against UB would do so begrudgingly if they are blackborder but those that embrace it wouldn't If they are silver border or even because they are UB in general. If you believe that then the best approach would be to not do UB at all since it is a loose loose situation. Also you are basically saying everyone who said that is either lying or atleast not being thruthful to themselves which I simply do not believe. Some People are Pumped for this product and some People hate it with a passion (and everything in between) and especially in those extreme ends I do belive people do as they say.
I really would like to know where you get your facts from. I've NEVER had another player reach across and rip any of my silver Bordered EDH cards. And I (used to before 2020) regularly play my UNEDH deck in my EDH group. In all honesty, I probably have more value in that deck than most players short of a mr moneybags who has pimped his deck with Alphas, judge promos and masterpieces. And God forbid anyone DOES reach across the table and rip up my "useless silver Bordered cards." I'd treat it just the same as if they'd ripped up a Black Lotus that I own (in my dreams) and I'd send that person to the hospital.
Most Magic players play kitchen table Magic. They dont know about formats or set legality. They just know "put cards together in a 60 card deck and play Magic." So to assume that "everyone" would hate these cards out of existence or that there should be some sort of silver or gold or blue or purple or red or pink of whatever color you fancy, treatment for these Crossover cards to make sure that players know they cant play the rainbow border cards in "regular" Magic games is an absurd notion.
Magic had white border cards for quite some time, as "reprints" in Core sets.
People just vastly did not like white border cards, especially mixing them together.
Its more appealing if all the cards have the same border.
There are even inner sleeves with black borders to "fix" the white border cards.
With collectors cards we get borderless cards too, so that alone is a bad approach in Magics current form.
----
Its all a legality thing.
Any playgroup can just declare what they want and dont want to play against, and people have to simply accept that fact of rules of a given playgroup, if they like it or not, if they feel somehow pushed aside or not, does not matter, its just how it rolls.
In actual tournaments sanctioned these will be legal, again, like it or not, thats a "you" problem then.
Anybody who has a fundamental problem with any magic card is free to walk away, an extreme reaction that is basically not happening or once in a life time (as the opponent, good, take the free win).
For Un-cards , a lot of them are basically just "funny" Magic cards but dont really disrupt a game of Magic in a fundamental way.
The "Gotcha" cards and similar mechanics get super annoying very quickly, and silly cards that demand crazy stuff like throwing cards around, putting shoes on the table and such are the extreme of Un-cards that quite a lot of people dont want to play.
But a lot of Commanders can easily and without any problem be part of a game, nobody really has an issue then.
If its a tournament, once again, the rules might simply demand that Un-cards are not legal, then thats how it goes.
Artwork and flavor wise, these will basically be the same as Godzilla cards in most cases its silly but nobody "really" cares.
Its clearly the better approach to offer a Magic related version of a card and use that as the "official" name and then a alternate art one, so the player can at least choose, being forced in a variant is not good.
Realistic only very few of the cards will be strong enough to be relevant in Magic anyway, so its not like you get a ton of super important cards that suddenly everyone has to use (unless WotC fkes up majorly, which is entirely possible that we get a "mistake").
Its clearly the better approach to offer a Magic related version of a card and use that as the "official" name and then a alternate art one, so the player can at least choose, being forced in a variant is not good.
While I like the silver Bordered approach more I am also completly fine with the Godzilla Treatment.
The whiteborder thing however I think stems from the urge to "pimp" your deck and People "pimp" their deck with stuff like the original cards that is also another reason (other than being underprinted in the first place) that alpha cards are seen as more valuable than Beta cards even if its the same card. And having an Indicator that a card is a reprint i.e The old reprint policy with reprints being white bordered makes them less desirable. Also some people like consitency but yeah that would be a problem with silver-bordered as well but then again as you said that consistency goes away with borderless anyways.
Realistic only very few of the cards will be strong enough to be relevant in Magic anyway, so its not like you get a ton of super important cards that suddenly everyone has to use (unless WotC fkes up majorly, which is entirely possible that we get a "mistake").
Maybe, maybe not it's hard to speculate about this sort of thing.
Most Magic players play kitchen table Magic. They dont know about formats or set legality. They just know "put cards together in a 60 card deck and play Magic."
I really would like to know where you get your facts from.
Most Magic players play kitchen table Magic. They dont know about formats or set legality. They just know "put cards together in a 60 card deck and play Magic."
I really would like to know where you get your facts from.
What he's saying is... partially true. Kitchen table is 100% the most popular format, hands down, according to WotC's market research. That said, kitchen table magic is now almost entirely EDH at this point, and people definitely know the rules and legality for EDH It just so happens that silver borders are absolutely not legal in the format, and are unlikely to ever be given that they've already had their chance, making MORE alt-border-not-really-legal cards absolutely not a solution for any problem ever. Rule zero is a joke.
Kitchen Table Commander Players know the rules sure but the legality of cards is a different thing entirely sure they maybe know that silver bordered cards are generally not legal but since many casual Kitchen table playgroups don't know or don't care about the ban list. Or have their own stipulations etc. I do not think rule zero is a Joke sure it doesn't work for everyone esp. Pick up groups sometimes have a hard time since people want different things out of the same Format but in general Communication helps to maximize the fun for everybody. And that communication is exactly what Rule 0 want's to achieve.
And it works there are Playgroups that ban fast mana because they don't like it, there are those that allow Un-Cards and it works, Hell even things like the Power-Scale is basically Rule 0.
And the Thing I mean with opt-in rather than opt-out is that it sets the focus of talking beforehand not after people are already in game where the chance of Frustration is higher. Since technically people can Rule 0 the cards out of their playgroups (Which apparently some playgroups did with the TWD cards so another successful application of that rule) for the people that are vehemently against something they will be having a bad Time when that something suddenly appears, where as someone who likes that something is less likely to just exclusively like that thing and has other alternatives to still have a good time.
A Meateater is much more likely to be okay with a Vegetarian restaurant than A Vegetarian is with a Meat-only restaurant (or with a normal retaurant if they are of the militant vegan/vegetarian varaiety).
I really would like to know where you get your facts from. I've NEVER had another player reach across and rip any of my silver Bordered EDH cards. And I (used to before 2020) regularly play my UNEDH deck in my EDH group. In all honesty, I probably have more value in that deck than most players short of a mr moneybags who has pimped his deck with Alphas, judge promos and masterpieces. And God forbid anyone DOES reach across the table and rip up my "useless silver Bordered cards." I'd treat it just the same as if they'd ripped up a Black Lotus that I own (in my dreams) and I'd send that person to the hospital.
Most Magic players play kitchen table Magic. They dont know about formats or set legality. They just know "put cards together in a 60 card deck and play Magic." So to assume that "everyone" would hate these cards out of existence or that there should be some sort of silver or gold or blue or purple or red or pink of whatever color you fancy, treatment for these Crossover cards to make sure that players know they cant play the rainbow border cards in "regular" Magic games is an absurd notion.
Kitchen Table Commander Players know the rules sure but the legality of cards is a different thing entirely sure they maybe know that silver bordered cards are generally not legal but since many casual Kitchen table playgroups don't know or don't care about the ban list. Or have their own stipulations etc. I do not think rule zero is a Joke sure it doesn't work for everyone esp. Pick up groups sometimes have a hard time since people want different things out of the same Format but in general Communication helps to maximize the fun for everybody. And that communication is exactly what Rule 0 want's to achieve.
And it works there are Playgroups that ban fast mana because they don't like it, there are those that allow Un-Cards and it works, Hell even things like the Power-Scale is basically Rule 0.
Just to preface, we're not talking about the vast majority of kitchen table players who don't really care about format legality, and would buy these products if they find it fun. A lot of people who are up in arms about this ruining the sanctity of Magic's lore (while also showing utter disdain for Magic's lore, but go figure) will be the more enfranchised players, including Commander players.
As much as the Rules Committee and more famous Magic Commander players want to make Rule Zero more widespread, most players treat the other rules and banlisr like the rules and banlist of other formats: unflinchingly to the letter. Most playgroups and LGSes ignore Rule Zero entirely, and the only place where silver-border EDH and other accommodations to the base rules exist in small isolated playgroups. While there are a few cases of format-wide Rule Zero at work (Urza and MLD being highly frowned upon in low-power settings, for example), this is usually never the case in settings composed of more than four people.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Not before we get Spellfire, good sir or madam.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
I'd be fine with them looking like magic cards, being mechanically unique, featuring other IPs, etc... as long as they're part of their own format, and the blue borders would be ideal to notify that.
And just like Silver borders which are sometimes accepted in EDH, you could see some of these cards being played in "normal" EDH if the table is ok.
That'd be a win-win, really. Heck, having Sauron fighting Ronald MacDonald alongside Rick and Spongebob Pants actually sounds like fun, what I DON'T want to see is a Collected Company dropping a Thalia and Bilbo Baggins into play in any of our traditional formats.
Modern : Solemnity Prison Martyr Proc Devotion to Green 8 Whacks Eldrazi Processor Bogles Landfall Aggro
Legacy : Goblins
The issue with that is the same as with making them silver-bordered: They wouldn't be legal in the format, so the vast majority of people wouldn't want to play with them. Its no solution at all, really.
I know but here’s the thing though.
now some you refuse to believe this but Mark said countless time silver border point to print stuff mechanic wise impossible to print
I honestly cannot understand what you are trying to say.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
So? playgroups exist (and not in that small of a number that already allow silver bordered cards. Sure the issue is playing with randos but usually people allow it if asked and if it's casual anyway it is good form IMO to ask what the powerlevel is anyway so one more question isn't going to hurt.
And If you think most people wouldn't say yes, then the issue moot anyway since with or without silver bordered not many people are into the crossovers so the vast majority wouldn't want to play them anyway. Sure that is casual play, tournament play is a bit different since when they are silver bordered they are illegal for those, but I think UB is more geared twoards casuals anyway (like the Un- Sets). While most Hardcore Spikes wouldn't care what the name or the artwork on their cards is, and that there might be tournament Grinders who love crossovers I think the vast majority of players even If they love crossovers want those cards to stay in the casual realm. And with Coverage being a thing wizards might want to keep them there.
No I believe this as there was/is a Blogatog entry for this as well, thing is he also said it is a Testing ground to try things out and the vast majority of Silver bordered cards are pretty possible to print mechanicswise if not already printed mechanics wise
EDIT:
And the main reason not to print them as is in a normal set is mostly flavorwise.
target minotaur
lightning visionary
This is just patently false.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
and can you give another example that isn't the cheese stands alone/Barren glory? and Super-Duper Death Ray/Flame spill? (Trample on instant/Sorcery impossible in black.) and pretty much nothing else from Unstaple and forward?
in other words, I'm aware of this, Maro mention this Unstaple and Forward is somewhat more on test pilot territory
Edit: target Minotaur example it’s not black because you picked a card with 4 different arts
Firtsly We had different arts in the same set before See Fallen Empires Set and Homelands Set
Secondly: Ronom Unicorn and Amateur Auteur
Novellamental and Vaporkin
Steamflogger Boss and Itself
Despondent Killbot and Alpha Myr or Field Creeper
Beast in Show and Yavimaya Wurm
Plus the Target Minotaur Plus Barren glory are the functional reprints.
Then you have Lots of cards that coudl be easily implemented without changing the comp rules like most Die rolling Cards
What makes a As Luck Would Have It that much different from a Chance Encounter for example or a
Krark's Thumb from a Krark's Other Thumb
Then you have cards that basically do similar things that already have been done already like Shahrazad and The Countdown Is at One or Crow Storm and Empty the Warrens and theres more like cards that do the same thing but worse.
And most if not all of these are Silver bordered because of their flavor not their mechanics which is a fine route to take as UN- Sets have been popular despite not being tournament legal, sure there are people avoiding buying these for that reason but that didn't stop them from getting popular, and I'd argue It actually helped Both UN-Sets and magics Popularity that way
Even during the time when silver border was allowed in big casual format Commander, I've seen multiple cases of people ripping up their opponent's cards mid-game because it's "worthless silver border." Heck, the only one played in any significant numbers is Urza, Academy Headmaster to take Sisay, Weatherlight Captain's place for a few weeks in 5-color Superfriends.
Playgroups who accept non-black border cards (again, including gold border) and next to NONEXISTENT. The legitimacy of black border will keep these cards treated as cards, and not hamster cage liner.
It seems like your expierience differs greatly from mine I never had a Problem playing with silver bordered cards both in store with randos (After asking them if they are okay with it) and with my Playgroups. (Similar to gold bordered cards although Ive never actually seen someone playing these directly but I've seen and played with people that use proxies which is basically equivalent to gold border anyways)
If you think the treatment for UB cards is bad now what makes you think those people would accept them more if they are black bordered, in this thread alone a lot of people who don't like the crossovers have said that they'd be fine if they were silver bordered but they don't like them being black bordered even some of the ones who like the crossovers said they would prefer them that way.
For those that are vehemently against the crossovers even when they are silver bordered they won't treat them differently than silver bordered anyways (with the extreme being not playing against them in whatever shape or form they come) so there it makes no difference in them being silver bordered anyways.
With the people who dislike the crossovers but would be fine with silver bordered they would be treating them better than they are now since they themself said that that would be okay with them.
Same goes for the people who like UB but woul'd have liked them to go that route instead. Both those groups would treat them better if they were silver bordered.
The only group that would treat them worse is people who love the crossovers but hate Un-sets/Silver-Bordered stuff which (At least in my expierience) is a very small minority.
Although ninjas are experts of camouflage and concealment, they are actually horrible liars. This means that no matter where you are, you can shout out, “Are there any ninjas here?” and if there’s a ninja within earshot, he’ll be compelled to respond.
So you think the people who are vehemently against playing with or against UB would do so begrudgingly if they are blackborder but those that embrace it wouldn't If they are silver border or even because they are UB in general. If you believe that then the best approach would be to not do UB at all since it is a loose loose situation. Also you are basically saying everyone who said that is either lying or atleast not being thruthful to themselves which I simply do not believe. Some People are Pumped for this product and some People hate it with a passion (and everything in between) and especially in those extreme ends I do belive people do as they say.
Edit: My G/B/r Dice/Squirrel deck
I really would like to know where you get your facts from. I've NEVER had another player reach across and rip any of my silver Bordered EDH cards. And I (used to before 2020) regularly play my UNEDH deck in my EDH group. In all honesty, I probably have more value in that deck than most players short of a mr moneybags who has pimped his deck with Alphas, judge promos and masterpieces. And God forbid anyone DOES reach across the table and rip up my "useless silver Bordered cards." I'd treat it just the same as if they'd ripped up a Black Lotus that I own (in my dreams) and I'd send that person to the hospital.
Most Magic players play kitchen table Magic. They dont know about formats or set legality. They just know "put cards together in a 60 card deck and play Magic." So to assume that "everyone" would hate these cards out of existence or that there should be some sort of silver or gold or blue or purple or red or pink of whatever color you fancy, treatment for these Crossover cards to make sure that players know they cant play the rainbow border cards in "regular" Magic games is an absurd notion.
People just vastly did not like white border cards, especially mixing them together.
Its more appealing if all the cards have the same border.
There are even inner sleeves with black borders to "fix" the white border cards.
With collectors cards we get borderless cards too, so that alone is a bad approach in Magics current form.
----
Its all a legality thing.
Any playgroup can just declare what they want and dont want to play against, and people have to simply accept that fact of rules of a given playgroup, if they like it or not, if they feel somehow pushed aside or not, does not matter, its just how it rolls.
In actual tournaments sanctioned these will be legal, again, like it or not, thats a "you" problem then.
Anybody who has a fundamental problem with any magic card is free to walk away, an extreme reaction that is basically not happening or once in a life time (as the opponent, good, take the free win).
For Un-cards , a lot of them are basically just "funny" Magic cards but dont really disrupt a game of Magic in a fundamental way.
The "Gotcha" cards and similar mechanics get super annoying very quickly, and silly cards that demand crazy stuff like throwing cards around, putting shoes on the table and such are the extreme of Un-cards that quite a lot of people dont want to play.
But a lot of Commanders can easily and without any problem be part of a game, nobody really has an issue then.
If its a tournament, once again, the rules might simply demand that Un-cards are not legal, then thats how it goes.
Artwork and flavor wise, these will basically be the same as Godzilla cards in most cases its silly but nobody "really" cares.
Its clearly the better approach to offer a Magic related version of a card and use that as the "official" name and then a alternate art one, so the player can at least choose, being forced in a variant is not good.
Realistic only very few of the cards will be strong enough to be relevant in Magic anyway, so its not like you get a ton of super important cards that suddenly everyone has to use (unless WotC fkes up majorly, which is entirely possible that we get a "mistake").
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
While I like the silver Bordered approach more I am also completly fine with the Godzilla Treatment.
The whiteborder thing however I think stems from the urge to "pimp" your deck and People "pimp" their deck with stuff like the original cards that is also another reason (other than being underprinted in the first place) that alpha cards are seen as more valuable than Beta cards even if its the same card. And having an Indicator that a card is a reprint i.e The old reprint policy with reprints being white bordered makes them less desirable. Also some people like consitency but yeah that would be a problem with silver-bordered as well but then again as you said that consistency goes away with borderless anyways.
Maybe, maybe not it's hard to speculate about this sort of thing.
I really would like to know where you get your facts from.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
What he's saying is... partially true. Kitchen table is 100% the most popular format, hands down, according to WotC's market research. That said, kitchen table magic is now almost entirely EDH at this point, and people definitely know the rules and legality for EDH It just so happens that silver borders are absolutely not legal in the format, and are unlikely to ever be given that they've already had their chance, making MORE alt-border-not-really-legal cards absolutely not a solution for any problem ever. Rule zero is a joke.
And it works there are Playgroups that ban fast mana because they don't like it, there are those that allow Un-Cards and it works, Hell even things like the Power-Scale is basically Rule 0.
And the Thing I mean with opt-in rather than opt-out is that it sets the focus of talking beforehand not after people are already in game where the chance of Frustration is higher. Since technically people can Rule 0 the cards out of their playgroups (Which apparently some playgroups did with the TWD cards so another successful application of that rule) for the people that are vehemently against something they will be having a bad Time when that something suddenly appears, where as someone who likes that something is less likely to just exclusively like that thing and has other alternatives to still have a good time.
A Meateater is much more likely to be okay with a Vegetarian restaurant than A Vegetarian is with a Meat-only restaurant (or with a normal retaurant if they are of the militant vegan/vegetarian varaiety).
As much as the Rules Committee and more famous Magic Commander players want to make Rule Zero more widespread, most players treat the other rules and banlisr like the rules and banlist of other formats: unflinchingly to the letter. Most playgroups and LGSes ignore Rule Zero entirely, and the only place where silver-border EDH and other accommodations to the base rules exist in small isolated playgroups. While there are a few cases of format-wide Rule Zero at work (Urza and MLD being highly frowned upon in low-power settings, for example), this is usually never the case in settings composed of more than four people.