Seems to me that it's far more likely that fans of LotR and 40k are more likely to buy the cards that feature their favorite characters, scenes, etc. to collect more of the thing they love rather than learning to play the game that they are featured on. I'm sure many in those fandoms are of the nerdy variety and know Magic exists, likely having seen it played at some point. I don't believe Magic incorporating these franchises will bring in new players, but instead just extra buyers.
This feels more like a quick way to get some cash in the short term while forgoing the long term, I base this on Magic's current personality in the last couple of years. There are FAR more quick FOMO kind of products than ever. This kind of attitude I feel is hurting the game, and based on the bannings and the card power lately that is my evidence.
Exactly.
It is 100% a corporate sellout by Hasbro of the existing player base that wants MtG to be and stay MtG. They don’t give a damn about people who have been invested in the game for a long time, sometimes even 25+ years, as long as they can grab the quick cash from the latest generation of un-invested casuals and the growing group of conformist snowflakes within current MtG player base.
And just to point out, reading the forum of the miniature hobby forum I’m also active at it has become crystal clear most Warhammer 40K players think “Magic has no story anyway so having Space Marines in their universe doesn’t make a difference”. That is the kind of new people that will be attracted to the game and you’ll have sit down with you at a Commander table.
Wow dude, I think it's time everybody stepped away from their computer. It's just cardboard with ******* dragons and fairies on them.
The idea that people cannot have opinions or criticisms about something they enjoy is asinine at best and stupid's second cousin at worst.
You can have an opinion, but it's still 7 pages discussing opinions about cardboards having gandalf on it and not random grey wizard. People are losing their minds way too much about this. Everybody needs to chill a bit, it's just a ******* game.
Maybe some people are afraid that this is the end of THEIR game for which they spend 50k and a kidney.
Wow dude, I think it's time everybody stepped away from their computer. It's just cardboard with ******* dragons and fairies on them.
The idea that people cannot have opinions or criticisms about something they enjoy is asinine at best and stupid's second cousin at worst.
You can have an opinion, but it's still 7 pages discussing opinions about cardboards having gandalf on it and not random grey wizard. People are losing their minds way too much about this. Everybody needs to chill a bit, it's just a ******* game.
Maybe some people are afraid that this is the end of THEIR game for which they spend 50k and a kidney.
Here's hoping Sol Ring gets printed in the LoTR set as the One Ring. That flavour text would be very suitable.
That actually would be pretty good.
How would that be good?
The One Ring is a unique item. Let’s call it legendary. A Sol Ring is an artifact that three out of four people slap on the table in turn one in the average game of Commander
Yes, Sol Ring, the card banned in every other format except Vintage and Commander, the formats where only one copy is allowed, and even then people want it banned there. Sol Ring is ridiculously powerful, and maybe deserves the Godzilla-skins treatment into the One Ring.
You can have an opinion, but it's still 7 pages discussing opinions about cardboards having gandalf on it and not random grey wizard. People are losing their minds way too much about this. Everybody needs to chill a bit, it's just a ******* game.
Sounds like you're losing your mind over people having an opinion. You need to chill a bit, it's just a seven asterisks opinion.
People are passionate about things they enjoy and this can potentially lead to the game getting into a worse situation. While some may be a bit more enthusiastic about their opinions than others and some have some logical fallacies in their arguments doesn't mean that it's a terrible thing. Trust me, there are worse fandoms out there when stuff happens in their IP, like Rick & Morty the way people swarmed McDonald's because of a joke.
Discussions and arguments are not a terrible thing. Also, we're both on a card game message board, what do you expect people to talk about on here?
[quote from="Djau the Jackal »" url="/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/820636-read-this-announcement-at-your-own-risk-it?comment=163"]
How would that be good?
The One Ring is a unique item. Let’s call it legendary. A Sol Ring is an artifact that three out of four people slap on the table in turn one in the average game of Commander
The One Ring never felt all that powerful, wasn't it the point that it only affected Sauron and after that it was just a ring of invisibility for anyone else? (Minus all the dark lord watching you thing.) I don't know about you, but considering we never saw its power used it's really nothing special.
Sol Ring is a pretty powerful card in Commander, it almost feels ban worthy from time to time. Is the One Ring unique? Yes. Is it truly all that memorable as anything more than a mcguffin? No.
If I had to be honest I feel a Ring of Invisibility would show up eventually and just be an uncommon 4 cmc/4 equip and give something unblockable & shroud.
It is 100% a corporate sellout by Hasbro of the existing player base that wants MtG to be and stay MtG. They don’t give a damn about people who have been invested in the game for a long time, sometimes even 25+ years, as long as they can grab the quick cash from the latest generation of un-invested casuals and the growing group of conformist snowflakes within current MtG player base.
While I can more or less agree with the sellout comment I have no idea what you mean with the section I bolded.
Everybody just needs to let it go and move on, it’s over, mtg is finally joining the crossover trend. If you can adapt keep playing if you can't quit.
The fact is you see most of the post online being negative but your gonna hate this but no matter where you go it's always minor no matter what website you go. Why do you think TWD secret lair is the best selling one in the first place, and why Some of the complaints barely get heard till around a year later.
Seems to me that it's far more likely that fans of LotR and 40k are more likely to buy the cards that feature their favorite characters, scenes, etc. to collect more of the thing they love rather than learning to play the game that they are featured on. I'm sure many in those fandoms are of the nerdy variety and know Magic exists, likely having seen it played at some point. I don't believe Magic incorporating these franchises will bring in new players, but instead just extra buyers.
This feels more like a quick way to get some cash in the short term while forgoing the long term, I base this on Magic's current personality in the last couple of years. There are FAR more quick FOMO kind of products than ever. This kind of attitude I feel is hurting the game, and based on the bannings and the card power lately that is my evidence.
Exactly.
It is 100% a corporate sellout by Hasbro of the existing player base that wants MtG to be and stay MtG. They don’t give a damn about people who have been invested in the game for a long time, sometimes even 25+ years, as long as they can grab the quick cash from the latest generation of un-invested casuals and the growing group of conformist snowflakes within current MtG player base.
And just to point out, reading the forum of the miniature hobby forum I’m also active at it has become crystal clear most Warhammer 40K players think “Magic has no story anyway so having Space Marines in their universe doesn’t make a difference”. That is the kind of new people that will be attracted to the game and you’ll have sit down with you at a Commander table.
I don't understand this position. These new toys take ABSOLUTELY NOTHING away from existing players. Fun and enjoyment is not a zero-sum game. This adds something new and nice for crossover fans and fans of the other IPs, attracting new blood to the game (which is an objectively good thing).
As to the comments you're referencing: they're not wrong. Magic's story/universe is absolute garbage compared to the IPs we'll soon be dipping into. Additionally, the mythos that Magic -does- have is that multiple universes exist and the player/planeswalkers pull creatures and spells through time and space to use them to do battle. Dipping into other IPs is 100% unequivocally exactly what Magic is already about, and arguments to the contrary are disingenuous and misinformed at best.
Everybody just needs to let it go and move on, it’s over, mtg is finally joining the crossover trend. If you can adapt keep playing if you can't quit.
The fact is you see most of the post online being negative but your gonna hate this but no matter where you go it's always minor no matter what website you go. Why do you think TWD secret lair is the best selling one in the first place, and why Some of the complaints barely get heard till around a year later.
Well it was also the worst recieved Product by the (vocal) Playerbase so they had to stifle the backlash r/magicTCG tried to contain it in one thread and unless you went to the hot tab you couldn't see it anymore. The Comments and Like/Dislike Bars on the Stream were disabled. It took a while but they eventually adressed it and that video also Disabled comments / Like Dislike ratio so theres that.
That may be due to other or additional concerns besides the IP thing. But nevertheless It was the Product with the most Backlash.
Additionally, the mythos that Magic -does- have is that multiple universes exist and the player/planeswalkers pull creatures and spells through time and space to use them to do battle. Dipping into other IPs is 100% unequivocally exactly what Magic is already about, and arguments to the contrary are disingenuous and misinformed at best.
Yeah but the travel (besides rabiah) is to the magic versions of those things not those literal things so I wouldnt agree that this is what magic is about.
This adds something new and nice for crossover fans and fans of the other IPs, attracting new blood to the game (which is an objectively good thing).
I agree on that Part but I disagree on that
These new toys take ABSOLUTELY NOTHING away from existing players.
It does just as there are fans of crossovers there are those who dislike them and sure you can say then don't play with these cards but since they are legal (CMD,Legacy , Vintage) they still might see them and that takes away their enjoyment of the game. And while I am not a fan of Gatekeeping the kind of Gatekeeping the People intend to do for those kind of Cards is basically the same as when people say we play commander but no CEDH allowed, which is understandable because to them it's why bother when I will not be having fun. I personally don't like the crossovers (Didn't like the gozilla ones but was ok with them since they are just skins) when playing with randos I wouldn't mind so much aka play what you like, But I would also respect when the majority of a pod don't like to play against such and such I would accept it as well. (Just like I won't join a MTGO game saying no Counters with a deck full of counters) Luckily for me IRL both of my Playgroups dislike the crossovers in General (besides one Guy and since he rarely plays magic anymore we would only have to see it on a few occasions)
Magic's story/lore is NOT garbage. There is so much going on with its backstory that didn't get published in the actual cards that it's a wasted effort. The comics from the early, like EARLY days, of Magic were so full of fantasy flavour that if they had kept tp that style I think it would've easily surpassed other IPs of a comparable nature.
I think the core issue is the multiverse itself. YEs cool there are a number of worlds ad infinitum within its unique universe but when it distracts from a core world--Dominaria--then it becomes rather redundant and can get the player base/followers lost. Honestly the biggest mistake was making Ravnica the focus of the storyline versus Dominaria and instant world-hopping with narrow cultural centric foundations that is diluting the IP.
Like I don't see why we couldn't have a Kaladesh setting occur on a spot somewhere in Dominaria or even another well-established plane. Why can't we explore other worlds in the Dominarian plane? There's another planet in the Dominarian system (Jinuoe) that is completely unknown and who knows what sort of wonky interworld storylines we could have there.
Let's focus less on the other planes and concentrate on a select few. I think you'd have a more receptive base than what we have now.
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Everybody just needs to let it go and move on, it’s over, mtg is finally joining the crossover trend. If you can adapt keep playing if you can't quit.
The fact is you see most of the post online being negative but your gonna hate this but no matter where you go it's always minor no matter what website you go. Why do you think TWD secret lair is the best selling one in the first place, and why Some of the complaints barely get heard till around a year later.
The problem I'm noticing is that Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro has put so much of their resources on the gameplay mechanics alone that they never really had time to focus on MTG's own lore due to Hasbro constantly pressuring them to meet deadlines for appeasing the corporate shareholders. Something happened after War of the Spark that created this shift where they decided to ultimately scrap the novels and comics based on MTG probably. They didn't think it was going to sell compared to just how good the gameplay mechanics have held the weight of the game for so long compared to it's own lore which on a marketing standpoint is sadly lackluster. Maybe it was due to not being pressured to join the IP Crossover bandwagon like a lot of other gaming franchises like Super Smash Bros. and Weiß Schwarz has already done.
MTG compared to other Paper Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games has always had that enigma about itself that it was never bound toward source material to be successful which explains how it was able to outlast many Paper Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games that have been discontinued over the past few decades barring Yu-Gi-Oh! and Pokémon TCG being the main exceptions. Maybe this decision by Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro to get in on the IP Crossover bandwagon is a telltale sign that they've become both creatively and morally bankrupt when it comes to MTG in general. I don't even believe that we've even scrapped the bottom of the barrel yet as there's still plenty of ideas to design around it's just that Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro aren't passionate enough about MTG's own lore AND gameplay mechanics to REALLY want to put in the work and effort into it.
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America Bless Christ Jesus
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Everybody just needs to let it go and move on, it’s over, mtg is finally joining the crossover trend. If you can adapt keep playing if you can't quit.
The fact is you see most of the post online being negative but your gonna hate this but no matter where you go it's always minor no matter what website you go. Why do you think TWD secret lair is the best-selling one in the first place, and why Some of the complaints barely get heard till around a year later.
Why are you gatekeeping people's opinions?
I'm not, I'm just saying this war is going nowhere, neither side is winning it's just “fire with fire” as they say.
so I apologize if I sounded like I'm gatekeeping I definitely don't want to do that. I'm my defense the same can be said for positive stuff about it everything as well
Reprint fatigue might have something to do with it as well...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
America Bless Christ Jesus
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
I don't understand this position. These new toys take ABSOLUTELY NOTHING away from existing players.
It takes away from Magic about as much as canonizing the Star Trek universe into Star Wars takes away from Star Wars fans. So yeah, it can totally have a negative impact on someone's enjoyment of the game depending on what they enjoy about the game. You don't get to tell people what to enjoy.
Conversely, these IPs already exist. There is nothing that takes away from those players if these crossovers would not be made. You want to play a LOTR card game? Great, there's actually two made already. You even get to choose. The "taking away" argument makes no sense especially when those IPs already exist.
I would also posit that even if you do like these crossovers, that they are still hurtful for the game in the long run, as I already mentioned. This has the potential power to actually damage the brand, which directly influences Magic players joining and staying in the game, and that can build up. So yeah, I think even people who do like the crossovers in theory should be wary of the longterm effects in practise.
This adds something new and nice for crossover fans and fans of the other IPs, attracting new blood to the game (which is an objectively good thing).
Is it though? There are two factors that determine the health/growth of a game: New User Acquisition and Retention. (Forgive me if I use those terms if they feel a little unpersonal and dehumanizing to the player, but it's the terms used in the video game industry so I am using them out of familiarity. Tells you a bit how the video game industry sees players, I guess... )
New User Acquisition is basically new players entering the game. Due to players leaving due to various reasons (let's call it entropy) you basically need a constant flow of fresh blood. Retention is the ability of a game to keep players in the game.
Now the thing is, crossovers may help with acquisition, maybe. Let's assume that someone who likes LOTR feels like committing to an entire game just because they saw Gandalf on the box. (I personally find it unlikely and I doubt that's the real goal of the product, the real goal being to increase sales with already enfranchised players by selling them two things they already like, at once. But whatever. Sake of argument.) But okay, we may get some additional players. But what about the retention. This hypothetical player most likely only got into it because of LOTR. But UB won't be able to spit out a LOTR set every quarter of the year, or even every year. Maybe we get one every decade, if we're lucky and it was received well. (Kamigawa fans are still waiting...) The player will likely end up not buying future product and drop out again entirely. Some of these players may convert to regular Magic players, but the rate is probably really low. People you draw in under 'false pretenses' ("Look, we have LOTR!" and then not delivering more afterwards) does not result in loyal players usually.
But then you may alienate already enfranchised players. You may also "reactivate" dropped out players (probably the secondary goal of this product). So who knows what's going to be stronger, but I just don't think this will have any real impact on getting new players in. At least not longterm.
The way I see it it's chiefly a way for players already in the game to spend more. Which... Is kind of on par with all the flood of recent products they spit out, like the secret drops and the double set Innistrad. It feels like Hasbro is losing faith in the brand and they pressure Wizards to produce as much revenue as they can before the game dies. Maybe Hasbro knows more than we do. Maybe they are paranoid. Maybe it's a battle of egos among Hasbro executives. Maybe I'm full of crap. Who knows.
Yes, and others, calm or not, likely stand by what they said. I stand by mine as well. That of course doesn't quite answer why you believe discussing something you enjoy is worthy of seven asterisks silly.
Holy hell, literally none of your arguments make any sort of sense, I'm not even sure where to begin. You really, really just want people to believe this is a bad thing for some reason and can't find a way to back it up. I very much don't understand the level of hate y'all have for this thing that objectively does no harm to you in any way. To live in a world so serene where a company daring to pander to anyone other than you for a millisecond is enough to raise your hackles this much... I can't imagine ever having that level of privilege.
By all means have at it, the majority of folks will be over here enjoying cool new cards just like the majority of folks were actually quite happy with previous crossovers if you look at sales data instead of angry Facebook posts during a time when everyone had nothing better to do.
Holy hell, literally none of your arguments make any sort of sense, I'm not even sure where to begin. You really, really just want people to believe this is a bad thing for some reason and can't find a way to back it up. I very much don't understand the level of hate y'all have for this thing that objectively does no harm to you in any way. To live in a world so serene where a company daring to pander to anyone other than you for a millisecond is enough to raise your hackles this much... I can't imagine ever having that level of privilege.
By all means have at it, the majority of folks will be over here enjoying cool new cards just like the majority of folks were actually quite happy with previous crossovers if you look at sales data instead of angry Facebook posts during a time when everyone had nothing better to do.
As if sales data is the be all end all of enjoyment. I am not one to say what to like or not to like. I know some people will enjoy crossovers and more power to them. What doesn't make sense with these arguments? And what constitutes as harm done? If you consider more people enjoying the game as a benefit why cant you consider less people enjoying it not a harm?
Like I implied before that is not a reason to ostracize someone just for playing crossover cards, but If people don't want to play against stuff like that they now have to either announce it beforehand, suck it up, or stop playing altogether. And to think all of this could have been avoided (And still can) is to make those things opt-in rather than opt-out (You know like Silver bordered-Sets, Banned-cards etc.)
Holy hell, literally none of your arguments make any sort of sense, I'm not even sure where to begin. You really, really just want people to believe this is a bad thing for some reason and can't find a way to back it up. I very much don't understand the level of hate y'all have for this thing that objectively does no harm to you in any way. To live in a world so serene where a company daring to pander to anyone other than you for a millisecond is enough to raise your hackles this much... I can't imagine ever having that level of privilege.
By all means have at it, the majority of folks will be over here enjoying cool new cards just like the majority of folks were actually quite happy with previous crossovers if you look at sales data instead of angry Facebook posts during a time when everyone had nothing better to do.
All because people may prefer not to play against decks using these cards?
These "it doen't affect you in any way" comments are really slimy. You don't get to say what affects me and how. If I don't like a new addition to a game, that has a negative effect on my enjoyment of the game. And "privileged", wow. That's a new one. Didn't know we were talking about big social issues or human rights here.* But well ... according to some people, as long as it makes even one person happy, disliking a company's decision somehow makes you a douche.
*I'm now waiting for a reply to this comment explaining to me how disliking a new addition to a niche nerd hobby and racism are essentially the same.
The situation with UB and Legacy/Commander is like if GameFreak making a Pokemon spinoff game where you can meet Mario and Sonic characters, and a code obtained in that game made you able to use Yoshi as your Pokemon and Shadow the Hedgehog as your trainer model in the mainline game. Would some people like it? Sure. Would it sell? Maybe. It's still not hard to see why some would prefer mainline Pokemon to remain its own self-contained universe, without weird "not canon but still there" crossover stuff thrown in.
I'd also like to add that the scenario people are painting where someone plays a game of Commander halfways through and then throws a tantrum because someone plays an UB card is very strawmanny. Only a very small minority of people actually wants to ruin people's fun that way. That's why many who object to some part of this wish there was a better solution. But apparently, in 2021, if you don't like franchise soup Commander then Magic is simply not for you anymore.
The situation with UB and Legacy/Commander is like if GameFreak making a Pokemon spinoff game where you can meet Mario and Sonic characters, and a code obtained in that game made you able to use Yoshi as your Pokemon and Shadow the Hedgehog as your trainer model in the mainline game. Would some people like it? Sure. Would it sell? Maybe. It's still not hard to see why some would prefer mainline Pokemon to remain its own self-contained universe, without weird "not canon but still there" crossover stuff thrown in.
Well that's not really the same because people could simply choose not to play the game. It's more like GameFreak releasing a DLC with sonic and mario and even people who didn't like it had to fight them in PvP.
Exactly.
It is 100% a corporate sellout by Hasbro of the existing player base that wants MtG to be and stay MtG. They don’t give a damn about people who have been invested in the game for a long time, sometimes even 25+ years, as long as they can grab the quick cash from the latest generation of un-invested casuals and the growing group of conformist snowflakes within current MtG player base.
And just to point out, reading the forum of the miniature hobby forum I’m also active at it has become crystal clear most Warhammer 40K players think “Magic has no story anyway so having Space Marines in their universe doesn’t make a difference”. That is the kind of new people that will be attracted to the game and you’ll have sit down with you at a Commander table.
Maybe some people are afraid that this is the end of THEIR game for which they spend 50k and a kidney.
It won't be the end.
Sounds like you're losing your mind over people having an opinion. You need to chill a bit, it's just a seven asterisks opinion.
People are passionate about things they enjoy and this can potentially lead to the game getting into a worse situation. While some may be a bit more enthusiastic about their opinions than others and some have some logical fallacies in their arguments doesn't mean that it's a terrible thing. Trust me, there are worse fandoms out there when stuff happens in their IP, like Rick & Morty the way people swarmed McDonald's because of a joke.
Discussions and arguments are not a terrible thing. Also, we're both on a card game message board, what do you expect people to talk about on here?
The One Ring never felt all that powerful, wasn't it the point that it only affected Sauron and after that it was just a ring of invisibility for anyone else? (Minus all the dark lord watching you thing.) I don't know about you, but considering we never saw its power used it's really nothing special.
Sol Ring is a pretty powerful card in Commander, it almost feels ban worthy from time to time. Is the One Ring unique? Yes. Is it truly all that memorable as anything more than a mcguffin? No.
If I had to be honest I feel a Ring of Invisibility would show up eventually and just be an uncommon 4 cmc/4 equip and give something unblockable & shroud.
While I can more or less agree with the sellout comment I have no idea what you mean with the section I bolded.
For someone who thinks this discussion is pointless you sure are posting a lot in this thread.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
I have no life, so make of it what you will
The fact is you see most of the post online being negative but your gonna hate this but no matter where you go it's always minor no matter what website you go. Why do you think TWD secret lair is the best selling one in the first place, and why Some of the complaints barely get heard till around a year later.
I don't understand this position. These new toys take ABSOLUTELY NOTHING away from existing players. Fun and enjoyment is not a zero-sum game. This adds something new and nice for crossover fans and fans of the other IPs, attracting new blood to the game (which is an objectively good thing).
As to the comments you're referencing: they're not wrong. Magic's story/universe is absolute garbage compared to the IPs we'll soon be dipping into. Additionally, the mythos that Magic -does- have is that multiple universes exist and the player/planeswalkers pull creatures and spells through time and space to use them to do battle. Dipping into other IPs is 100% unequivocally exactly what Magic is already about, and arguments to the contrary are disingenuous and misinformed at best.
Well it was also the worst recieved Product by the (vocal) Playerbase so they had to stifle the backlash r/magicTCG tried to contain it in one thread and unless you went to the hot tab you couldn't see it anymore. The Comments and Like/Dislike Bars on the Stream were disabled. It took a while but they eventually adressed it and that video also Disabled comments / Like Dislike ratio so theres that.
That may be due to other or additional concerns besides the IP thing. But nevertheless It was the Product with the most Backlash.
Yeah but the travel (besides rabiah) is to the magic versions of those things not those literal things so I wouldnt agree that this is what magic is about.
I agree on that Part but I disagree on that
It does just as there are fans of crossovers there are those who dislike them and sure you can say then don't play with these cards but since they are legal (CMD,Legacy , Vintage) they still might see them and that takes away their enjoyment of the game. And while I am not a fan of Gatekeeping the kind of Gatekeeping the People intend to do for those kind of Cards is basically the same as when people say we play commander but no CEDH allowed, which is understandable because to them it's why bother when I will not be having fun. I personally don't like the crossovers (Didn't like the gozilla ones but was ok with them since they are just skins) when playing with randos I wouldn't mind so much aka play what you like, But I would also respect when the majority of a pod don't like to play against such and such I would accept it as well. (Just like I won't join a MTGO game saying no Counters with a deck full of counters) Luckily for me IRL both of my Playgroups dislike the crossovers in General (besides one Guy and since he rarely plays magic anymore we would only have to see it on a few occasions)
I think the core issue is the multiverse itself. YEs cool there are a number of worlds ad infinitum within its unique universe but when it distracts from a core world--Dominaria--then it becomes rather redundant and can get the player base/followers lost. Honestly the biggest mistake was making Ravnica the focus of the storyline versus Dominaria and instant world-hopping with narrow cultural centric foundations that is diluting the IP.
Like I don't see why we couldn't have a Kaladesh setting occur on a spot somewhere in Dominaria or even another well-established plane. Why can't we explore other worlds in the Dominarian plane? There's another planet in the Dominarian system (Jinuoe) that is completely unknown and who knows what sort of wonky interworld storylines we could have there.
Let's focus less on the other planes and concentrate on a select few. I think you'd have a more receptive base than what we have now.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Why are you gatekeeping people's opinions?
Current EDH Decks:
Dakkon Blackblade 2WUUB
MTG compared to other Paper Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games has always had that enigma about itself that it was never bound toward source material to be successful which explains how it was able to outlast many Paper Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games that have been discontinued over the past few decades barring Yu-Gi-Oh! and Pokémon TCG being the main exceptions. Maybe this decision by Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro to get in on the IP Crossover bandwagon is a telltale sign that they've become both creatively and morally bankrupt when it comes to MTG in general. I don't even believe that we've even scrapped the bottom of the barrel yet as there's still plenty of ideas to design around it's just that Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro aren't passionate enough about MTG's own lore AND gameplay mechanics to REALLY want to put in the work and effort into it.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
I'm not, I'm just saying this war is going nowhere, neither side is winning it's just “fire with fire” as they say.
so I apologize if I sounded like I'm gatekeeping I definitely don't want to do that. I'm my defense the same can be said for positive stuff about it everything as well
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
It takes away from Magic about as much as canonizing the Star Trek universe into Star Wars takes away from Star Wars fans. So yeah, it can totally have a negative impact on someone's enjoyment of the game depending on what they enjoy about the game. You don't get to tell people what to enjoy.
Conversely, these IPs already exist. There is nothing that takes away from those players if these crossovers would not be made. You want to play a LOTR card game? Great, there's actually two made already. You even get to choose. The "taking away" argument makes no sense especially when those IPs already exist.
I would also posit that even if you do like these crossovers, that they are still hurtful for the game in the long run, as I already mentioned. This has the potential power to actually damage the brand, which directly influences Magic players joining and staying in the game, and that can build up. So yeah, I think even people who do like the crossovers in theory should be wary of the longterm effects in practise.
Is it though? There are two factors that determine the health/growth of a game: New User Acquisition and Retention. (Forgive me if I use those terms if they feel a little unpersonal and dehumanizing to the player, but it's the terms used in the video game industry so I am using them out of familiarity. Tells you a bit how the video game industry sees players, I guess... )
New User Acquisition is basically new players entering the game. Due to players leaving due to various reasons (let's call it entropy) you basically need a constant flow of fresh blood. Retention is the ability of a game to keep players in the game.
Now the thing is, crossovers may help with acquisition, maybe. Let's assume that someone who likes LOTR feels like committing to an entire game just because they saw Gandalf on the box. (I personally find it unlikely and I doubt that's the real goal of the product, the real goal being to increase sales with already enfranchised players by selling them two things they already like, at once. But whatever. Sake of argument.) But okay, we may get some additional players. But what about the retention. This hypothetical player most likely only got into it because of LOTR. But UB won't be able to spit out a LOTR set every quarter of the year, or even every year. Maybe we get one every decade, if we're lucky and it was received well. (Kamigawa fans are still waiting...) The player will likely end up not buying future product and drop out again entirely. Some of these players may convert to regular Magic players, but the rate is probably really low. People you draw in under 'false pretenses' ("Look, we have LOTR!" and then not delivering more afterwards) does not result in loyal players usually.
But then you may alienate already enfranchised players. You may also "reactivate" dropped out players (probably the secondary goal of this product). So who knows what's going to be stronger, but I just don't think this will have any real impact on getting new players in. At least not longterm.
The way I see it it's chiefly a way for players already in the game to spend more. Which... Is kind of on par with all the flood of recent products they spit out, like the secret drops and the double set Innistrad. It feels like Hasbro is losing faith in the brand and they pressure Wizards to produce as much revenue as they can before the game dies. Maybe Hasbro knows more than we do. Maybe they are paranoid. Maybe it's a battle of egos among Hasbro executives. Maybe I'm full of crap. Who knows.
Yes, and others, calm or not, likely stand by what they said. I stand by mine as well. That of course doesn't quite answer why you believe discussing something you enjoy is worthy of seven asterisks silly.
By all means have at it, the majority of folks will be over here enjoying cool new cards just like the majority of folks were actually quite happy with previous crossovers if you look at sales data instead of angry Facebook posts during a time when everyone had nothing better to do.
Mmh, when you put it like that, maybe you are right. I'll have to rethink my opinions on the matter in light of this new evidence.
As if sales data is the be all end all of enjoyment. I am not one to say what to like or not to like. I know some people will enjoy crossovers and more power to them. What doesn't make sense with these arguments? And what constitutes as harm done? If you consider more people enjoying the game as a benefit why cant you consider less people enjoying it not a harm?
Like I implied before that is not a reason to ostracize someone just for playing crossover cards, but If people don't want to play against stuff like that they now have to either announce it beforehand, suck it up, or stop playing altogether. And to think all of this could have been avoided (And still can) is to make those things opt-in rather than opt-out (You know like Silver bordered-Sets, Banned-cards etc.)
All because people may prefer not to play against decks using these cards?
Current EDH Decks:
Dakkon Blackblade 2WUUB
*I'm now waiting for a reply to this comment explaining to me how disliking a new addition to a niche nerd hobby and racism are essentially the same.
The situation with UB and Legacy/Commander is like if GameFreak making a Pokemon spinoff game where you can meet Mario and Sonic characters, and a code obtained in that game made you able to use Yoshi as your Pokemon and Shadow the Hedgehog as your trainer model in the mainline game. Would some people like it? Sure. Would it sell? Maybe. It's still not hard to see why some would prefer mainline Pokemon to remain its own self-contained universe, without weird "not canon but still there" crossover stuff thrown in.
I'd also like to add that the scenario people are painting where someone plays a game of Commander halfways through and then throws a tantrum because someone plays an UB card is very strawmanny. Only a very small minority of people actually wants to ruin people's fun that way. That's why many who object to some part of this wish there was a better solution. But apparently, in 2021, if you don't like franchise soup Commander then Magic is simply not for you anymore.
Well that's not really the same because people could simply choose not to play the game. It's more like GameFreak releasing a DLC with sonic and mario and even people who didn't like it had to fight them in PvP.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588